(08-13-2023 03:45 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Still don't understand how this is part of a college or university's mission to create either a pseudo or outright professional sports entity.

It's already 'pseudo', and nothing is going to change that now.

(08-13-2023 03:45 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  ...they should only get to use the school's name if the school is paying for it as a sponsorship...

But the school itself is going to be a member. So why would they have to pay themselves? Using your NASCAR analogy, that would be like one of the racing teams having to pay themselves a royalty to put their own team name on their own car.

(08-13-2023 03:45 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  At some point - for the public institutions anyway that are receiving billions collectively from the government - Congress is going to end up stepping in. And we know what happens when that does.

I don't. I don't think anybody else does either. It not clear to me what role the government can play in a college football breakaway league. There's the wildest of speculation. Some of the relatively least bizarre stuff I've heard implied or suggested:

• The government could charter a labor union, and have Congress pass a law forcing all student athletes to join it if they want to participate in that collegiate activity.
• They could suspend the 13th and 14th amendments, as well as all derived labor and trade laws, for collegiate sports participants. Effectively the student athletes would no longer be true citizens, or have the rights of true citizens, and thus the government artificially could limit all or any of their earnings (NIL being the most notable).
• They could rewrite Title IX so that football is excluded.
  

I've definitely read some crazier suggestions than these, but I won't go into those as they are just implausible to the point of laughibility. I am curious what you think would happen if the government gets involved in this breakaway super league.

(08-13-2023 05:00 PM)ouflak Wrote:  

(08-13-2023 03:45 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Still don't understand how this is part of a college or university's mission to create either a pseudo or outright professional sports entity.

It's already 'pseudo', and nothing is going to change that now.

(08-13-2023 03:45 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  ...they should only get to use the school's name if the school is paying for it as a sponsorship...

But the school itself is going to be a member. So why would they have to pay themselves? Using your NASCAR analogy, that would be like one of the racing teams having to pay themselves a royalty to put their own team name on their own car.

(08-13-2023 03:45 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  At some point - for the public institutions anyway that are receiving billions collectively from the government - Congress is going to end up stepping in. And we know what happens when that does.

I don't. I don't think anybody else does either. It not clear to me what role the government can play in a college football breakaway league. There's the wildest of speculation. Some of the relatively least bizarre stuff I've heard implied or suggested:

• The government could charter a labor union, and have Congress pass a law forcing all student athletes to join it if they want to participate in that collegiate activity.
• They could suspend the 13th and 14th amendments, as well as all derived labor and trade laws, for collegiate sports participants. Effectively the student athletes would no longer be true citizens, or have the rights of true citizens, and thus the government artificially could limit all or any of their earnings (NIL being the most notable).
• They could rewrite Title IX so that football is excluded.
  

I've definitely read some crazier suggestions than these, but I won't go into those as they are just implausible to the point of laughibility. I am curious what you think would happen if the government gets involved in this breakaway super league.

I may not have conveyed myself in the way I intended this to be interpreted. My point to this is that colleges and universities receive - billions of dollars - collectively from federal, state, and local governments (primarily federal especial for land grant institutions) that are predicated on the mission of said college or university (which has absolutley nothing to do with professional sports).

We have already seen the USG play a significant role in terms of withholding/granting federal funds based on the direction an institution is taking. Moreover, we have seen political involvement in realignment as well. For example, Utah would not have been in the PAC if it weren't for Congressional fingerprints particularly a certain Senator from Utah. Or Virginia Tech when the state politics got involved. Additionally at the federal level, Congress has threatened to get more involved before under the premise that anti-trust violations have been breached and more importantly that University's in their sporting endeavors have put their tax exempt status at risk. Especially with respect to the latter (as you articulated yourself) are moving in this direction if not already and I can't think of single of President who would want to see their tax exempt status rescinded so that an over paid coach can have his program in a semi-professional league. My point is there is a signficant risk for that to occur under the umbrella of a public institution (especially when so many others would be left out of it).

More chatter:

A wild five-tiered system that’s gone viral on Twitter:

College Football 'Relegation' Proposal Is Starting To Gain Traction

https://thespun.com/.amp/college-footbal...n-traction

From Stewart Mandel of The Athletic. He says 28 will make this new league.

College Football Premier League: 28 teams survive in standalone football product

Four years ago, I wrote about potential future realignment scenarios. The most radical was a College Football Premier League, a football-only confederation of the top 28 national brands.

Three massive realignment waves later, that scenario no longer feels like a far-off fantasy. Frankly, it feels inevitable. Actual leaders of the sport are prophesying much the same thing.

“I think the future has to contemplate football being taken out of the mix,” Nebraska AD Trev Alberts told the Lincoln Journal Star last week. “We’re moving to a 35 to 40 top brands being part of something. If you just look at football in isolation, eventually conferences will matter less in a sense.”

Alberts is right, though he’s being generous with 35 to 40. If the past three years have taught us anything, it’s that TV networks’ thirst for more “big events” is leading to two super-conferences hoarding nearly all the biggest national brands. Everyone else is collateral damage.

https://theathletic.com/4776402/2023/08/...gue/?amp=1

(08-15-2023 07:37 PM)unalions Wrote:  From Stewart Mandel of The Athletic. He says 28 will make this new league.

College Football Premier League: 28 teams survive in standalone football product

Four years ago, I wrote about potential future realignment scenarios. The most radical was a College Football Premier League, a football-only confederation of the top 28 national brands.

Three massive realignment waves later, that scenario no longer feels like a far-off fantasy. Frankly, it feels inevitable. Actual leaders of the sport are prophesying much the same thing.

“I think the future has to contemplate football being taken out of the mix,” Nebraska AD Trev Alberts told the Lincoln Journal Star last week. “We’re moving to a 35 to 40 top brands being part of something. If you just look at football in isolation, eventually conferences will matter less in a sense.”

Alberts is right, though he’s being generous with 35 to 40. If the past three years have taught us anything, it’s that TV networks’ thirst for more “big events” is leading to two super-conferences hoarding nearly all the biggest national brands. Everyone else is collateral damage.

https://theathletic.com/4776402/2023/08/...gue/?amp=1

28?

Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Florida St, Georgia, Iowa, LSU, Miami, Michigan, Michigan St, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Ohio St, Oklahoma, Oregon, Penn St, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Texas A&M, UCLA, USC, Washington, Wisconsin

East: Clemson, Florida, Florida St, Georgia, Miami, North Carolina, South Carolina
North: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan St, Notre Dame, Ohio St, Penn St, Wisconsin
South: Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, Tennessee, Texas A&M
West: Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas, UCLA, USC, Washington

(08-15-2023 07:37 PM)unalions Wrote:  From Stewart Mandel of The Athletic. He says 28 will make this new league.

College Football Premier League: 28 teams survive in standalone football product

Four years ago, I wrote about potential future realignment scenarios. The most radical was a College Football Premier League, a football-only confederation of the top 28 national brands.

Three massive realignment waves later, that scenario no longer feels like a far-off fantasy. Frankly, it feels inevitable. Actual leaders of the sport are prophesying much the same thing.

“I think the future has to contemplate football being taken out of the mix,” Nebraska AD Trev Alberts told the Lincoln Journal Star last week. “We’re moving to a 35 to 40 top brands being part of something. If you just look at football in isolation, eventually conferences will matter less in a sense.”

Alberts is right, though he’s being generous with 35 to 40. If the past three years have taught us anything, it’s that TV networks’ thirst for more “big events” is leading to two super-conferences hoarding nearly all the biggest national brands. Everyone else is collateral damage.

https://theathletic.com/4776402/2023/08/...gue/?amp=1

Nebraska is not even the top 28 football brands anymore. Someone pointed out that a lot of states are going be very pissed that they are being left out. Idaho, Hawaii, Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri, Minnesota, Mississippi, Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, Wisconsin, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Mass., etc. There are a lot of populated states there that don't even have a top 40 football brand team.

From D1.ticker:

As a part of a longer piece on the future of the NFL, SBJ’s Ben Fischer catches up with several sources about the following possibility: “The top 50 teams in college football signing a grant of rights to NewCo., a tripartite partnership of Fox, Disney and the NFL. In one fell swoop, the second most popular sport in America is forever divorced from the mishmash of NCAA, conference, government and university oversight that has led to today’s campus crisis. The NFL’s decades of excellence running football operations and big-ticket events could unlock more value, with extraordinary upside revenue potential.”

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Ar...eview.aspx

(09-06-2023 10:18 AM)unalions Wrote:  From D1.ticker:

As a part of a longer piece on the future of the NFL, SBJ’s Ben Fischer catches up with several sources about the following possibility: “The top 50 teams in college football signing a grant of rights to NewCo., a tripartite partnership of Fox, Disney and the NFL. In one fell swoop, the second most popular sport in America is forever divorced from the mishmash of NCAA, conference, government and university oversight that has led to today’s campus crisis. The NFL’s decades of excellence running football operations and big-ticket events could unlock more value, with extraordinary upside revenue potential.”

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Ar...eview.aspx

It sounds like an amazing joint venture in theory. But one question no one has ever been able to answer is how do you use a public school's name without the institution losing its federal tax-exempt status? This is the very thick line that Presidents are going to have to decide if they want to cross or not.

Best part might be coming up with the names for the divisions for the new P1.

How about this: "Greed" division and "Money" division?

Or, "Let's kill college football" division and "Can we be any less inclusive?" divisions?

I broke the current and future 70 P5 schools into 4 categories-1 are the 20 schools who have dominated the top of the rankings the last half century. 2 are 16 schools with big fan bases and donors and/or big states who couldn't be left out. Category 3 is 14 in the next group. I just don't think you could leave all but 4 out without having holes that would hurt ratings. On top of that, you do need someone to lose more than 50%. Maybe the 20 in category 4 could go. 8 of the 20 will not or have not been in power conferences all the last 20 years. But there are arguments for some of them. Georgia Tech and BYU do have at least a share of an MNC in modern history. WVU, KSU, Baylor and Utah have all had success in the BCS/CFP era.

Cutting it down to 36-40 would be a mistake.

ACC 1 Clemson
ACC 1 Florida State
ACC 1 Miami
Big 10 1 Michigan
Big 10 1 Penn State
Big 10 1 Ohio State
Big 10 1 Nebraska
Big 10 1 USC
Big 10 1 Washington
Big 10 1 Oregon
Big 12 1 Colorado
i 1 Notre Dame
SEC 1 Texas
SEC 1 Oklahoma
SEC 1 Tennessee
SEC 1 Louisiana State
SEC 1 Alabama
SEC 1 Georgia
SEC 1 Florida
SEC 1 Auburn

ACC 2 North Carolina
Big 10 2 Wisconsin
Big 10 2 Michigan State
Big 10 2 Iowa
Big 10 2 Illinois
Big 10 2 Purdue
Big 10 2 Indiana
Big 10 2 UCLA
Big 12 2 Kansas
Big 12 2 Arizona State
Big 12 2 Arizona
SEC 2 Texas A&M
SEC 2 South Carolina
SEC 2 Arkansas
SEC 2 Missouri
SEC 2 Kentucky

ACC 3 Pittsburg
ACC 3 Virginia Tech
ACC 3 Virginia
ACC 3 Louisville
ACC 3 North Carolina State
ACC 3 Syracuse
ACC 3 California
ACC 3 Stanford
Big 10 3 Rutgers
Big 10 3 Maryland
Big 10 3 Minnesota
Big 12 3 Oklahoma State
Big 12 3 TCU
SEC 3 Mississippi

ACC 4 Georgia Tech
ACC 4 Boston College
ACC 4 Duke
ACC 4 Wake Forest
ACC 4 SMU
Big 10 4 Northwestern
Big 12 4 Central Florida
Big 12 4 Houston
Big 12 4 Cincinnati
Big 12 4 Iowa State
Big 12 4 Texas Tech
Big 12 4 West Virginia
Big 12 4 Kansas State
Big 12 4 Baylor
Big 12 4 Brigham Young
Big 12 4 Utah
Pac 12 4 Oregon State
Pac 12 4 Washington State
SEC 4 Mississippi State
SEC 4 Vanderbilt

(08-08-2023 09:21 AM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Just for fun I created a list of schools that may end up in the P1. Just remember, each school would be paid the same:

Definitely In

1. tOSU
2. Michigan
3. Michigan St.
4. Penn St
5. USC
6. Washington
7. Florida
8. Georgia
9. Alabama
10. LSU
11. Texas A&M
12. Texas
13. Oklahoma
14. Tennessee
15. Notre Dame
16. Florida St.
17. Clemson
18. UNC

Second Tier

19. Wisconsin
20. Minnesota
21. Purdue
22. UCLA
23. Oregon
24. Ole Miss
25. South Carolina
26. Virginia
27. NC State
28. Miami
29. Va Tech
30. Stanford

3rd Tier

31. Iowa
32. Indiana
33. Illinois
34. Kentucky
35. Miss St.
36. Pitt
37. Syracuse
38. Maryland
39. Boston College
40. Ga Tech
41. Colorado (Location)
42. Arizona St (Location)
43. Utah
44. OK St.
45. Houston (Location)

You must be a younger fan. Get Iowa out of your 3rd tier. That’s just dumb dumb dumb and stupid

(08-13-2023 03:45 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Still don't understand how this is part of a college or university's mission to create either a pseudo or outright professional sports entity. And if it's a full separation they should only get to use the school's name if the school is paying for it as a sponsorship - like a NASCAR with the car's logo and colors on it.

At some point - for the public institutions anyway that are receiving billions collectively from the government - Congress is going to end up stepping in. And we know what happens when that does.

Costs went way up when the government got involved. There is no such thing as "public" education. There is government and non-government education.

(09-06-2023 04:23 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(08-08-2023 09:21 AM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Just for fun I created a list of schools that may end up in the P1. Just remember, each school would be paid the same:

Definitely In

1. tOSU
2. Michigan
3. Michigan St.
4. Penn St
5. USC
6. Washington
7. Florida
8. Georgia
9. Alabama
10. LSU
11. Texas A&M
12. Texas
13. Oklahoma
14. Tennessee
15. Notre Dame
16. Florida St.
17. Clemson
18. UNC

Second Tier

19. Wisconsin
20. Minnesota
21. Purdue
22. UCLA
23. Oregon
24. Ole Miss
25. South Carolina
26. Virginia
27. NC State
28. Miami
29. Va Tech
30. Stanford

3rd Tier

31. Iowa
32. Indiana
33. Illinois
34. Kentucky
35. Miss St.
36. Pitt
37. Syracuse
38. Maryland
39. Boston College
40. Ga Tech
41. Colorado (Location)
42. Arizona St (Location)
43. Utah
44. OK St.
45. Houston (Location)

You must be a younger fan. Get Iowa out of your 3rd tier. That’s just dumb dumb dumb and stupid

Nope, not young, going by market size as well as program success. I could swap Iowa for Purdue I suppose. And I can make the case for UCLA not making the cut as USC is already in LA and LA and OC are saturated with pro teams. But, there isn't a lot of difference in my tier 2 and tier 3 schools. Mandel thinks just 28 will be in the P1. My top 18 are automatics so why don't you chose the next 10 or 12?

Look at the DMAs I have in tier 3, Denver, Phoenix and Houston with the latter the only B12 team I have on the list.

(09-06-2023 04:28 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(08-13-2023 03:45 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Still don't understand how this is part of a college or university's mission to create either a pseudo or outright professional sports entity. And if it's a full separation they should only get to use the school's name if the school is paying for it as a sponsorship - like a NASCAR with the car's logo and colors on it.

At some point - for the public institutions anyway that are receiving billions collectively from the government - Congress is going to end up stepping in. And we know what happens when that does.

Costs went way up when the government got involved. There is no such thing as "public" education. There is government and non-government education.

Government should quit encouraging young people to get into a bunch of debt in order to go to college. The more the government tries to make education "more affordable" the more universities increase their costs. When supply exceeds demand, costs will decrease. Look at the Forbes list for best value for your education. They look at education costs, amount of debt the average student carries post graduation and what they can expect to earn 7 years after they graduate among a couple other factors. I can say that my alma matter ranks 16th in the nation for public schools on Forbes.

I think the hypothetical league should be the 4 big conferences forming a league out side of the NCAA for all sports. (Possibly some very small participation sports stay in NCAA)

I don't see a problem with Anti-trust because this would be in direct competition to the NCAA's monopoly. You'd still allow some competition between NCAA schools.

Collectively bargain with players a portion of revenue.

I think the fans would like to see as much tradition as possible. I'd keep three of the conference names as divisions. BIG, ACC, and SEC. Each keeps a similar flavor to what they have now. The Big12 is the easiest conference to shuffle into the others. Former Pac schools to Big, Eastern schools to ACC and SEC etc. I'd probably put Penn State, UMD, and ND to ACC group for more balance.

Current ACC minus Cal and Stanford add Penn State, UMD, ND, WVU, Cincy, Houston, UCF (22)
Current Big minus Penn State and UMD add Utah, CO, Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona State, Iowa State, Missouri (24)
Current SEC minus Missouri add Baylor, TX Tech, BYU, Kansas, KState, OK State, TCU (22)


Keep the major bowl names as part of the playoff. Have three "conference championship games" that operate as part of the College Bowl League Championship with wildcards.

Basketball would operate their own tournament as well. You'd have "conference" and "league" championship in every sport. That will keep the maximum interest and still feel familiar to fans. The NCAA will be doing their own championships for their conferences and divisions, NAIA would have their own etc. Teams in all sports can still have out of league matches with NCAA if NCAA would agree.

(08-08-2023 09:14 AM)ken d Wrote:  The divisions in my Conference Pangea proposal are as follows. After each team are some likely protected rivalry games (up to four each). Some schools might not have any because all their rivals are already in their division. There could be more protected games I didn't think of. I won't even try to name the divisions.

Alabama: Auburn, LSU, Ole Miss
Florida: Florida State. Georgia, Miami
Mississippi St: Ole Miss, Auburn
Tennessee: Kentucky, South Carolina
Arkansas: Texas, Ole Miss, Oklahoma
Virginia: UNC, Virginia Tech, Duke, Wake Forest
Vanderbilt: Kentucky

*******************************************************

Georgia: Florida, Clemson
Auburn: Alabama, Mississippi St
Ole Miss: Mississippi St, Arkansas, Alabama
South Carolina: Clemson, UNC, Tennessee
Miami: Florida State, Florida, UCF
Georgia Tech: Florida State, Virginia Tech
Duke: UNC, Virginia, Wake Forest, NC State

*******************************************************

Oklahoma: Arkansas, Wisconsin
Oklahoma St: Texas Tech
Texas: Texas A&M, Arkansas, Notre Dame
Missouri: Illinois
Nebraska: Kansas State
Iowa State: Iowa
Kansas: Kansas State, Colorado

******************************************************

LSU: Alabama, Notre Dame
Texas A&M: Texas
TCU:
Kansas State: Kansas, Nebraska
Baylor:
Texas Tech: Oklahoma St
Houston:

***********************************************************

Ohio State: Michigan, Penn State, Illionois, Indiana
Iowa: Iowa State, Purdue, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Louisville:
West Virginia: Maryland
Pitt: Penn State, Syracuse, Boston College
Kentucky: Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Cincinnati:

***************************************************************

Wisconsin: Iowa, Oklahoma
Michigan: Ohio State, Michigan State
Minnesota: Iowa
Northwestern:
Indiana: Ohio State
Purdue: Iowa
Illinois: Ohio State, Missouri

*************************************************************

Notre Dame: Southern Cal, Stanford, Texas, LSU
Penn State: Ohio State, Pitt
Michigan State: Michigan
Syracuse: Pitt
Boston College: Pitt
Maryland: West Virginia, NC State
Rutgers:

******************************************************************

Clemson: South Carolina, Georgia
Florida State: Florida, Miami, Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech: Virginia, Georgia Tech
NC State: Duke, Maryland
UNC: Virginia, Duke, South Carolina
UCF: Miami
Wake Forest: Virginia, Duke

****************************************************************

Washington: Washington St, Oregon
Southern Cal: UCLA, Cal, Notre Dame
Stanford: Cal, UCLA, Notre Dame
BYU: Utah, San Diego State
Arizona: Arizona State
Oregon State: Oregon
Colorado: Utah, Kansas

*******************************************************

Oregon: Oregon State, Washington
Utah: BYU, Colorado
UCLA: Southern Cal, Stanford
Arizona State: Arizona
Washington St: Washington
Cal: Stanford, Southern Cal
San Diego State: BYU

No protected games for TCU, Baylor, and Houston?

Interesting article from a month or so ago about college football consolidation. It think 40 (or less) is likely the number we'll start to hear repeatedly in this discussion.

But, 17 regular season games? Wow! I'd love it!

From the article:

Where will it end? Right here, says Sports Illustrated. We brought this exercise in greed to its logical conclusion: a 40-school alliance, split into two 20-team megaconferences that are fully weaponized versions of the Big Ten and SEC and are aligned with the highest broadcast bidders.

https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/30/co...a-alliance

(08-09-2023 12:50 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(08-09-2023 12:16 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  It shouldn't happen though. If it is to be created, a new league should be divested from the college/university system. Do we really need another pro football league?

The one thing that made college football so much better than professional are the traditions, rivalries, atmospheres, and bonds that exist in college but not pro.

Greed is destroying that.

You got players making 7 figures now. Sure sounds like a pro league to me.

IRS will likely start taxing these programs as for profit businesses

I think, based on budget, we will see the breakaway football league take about 40 current FBS programs. Doubt it will be these exact 40 but that’s when the football budgets start to decline with a large gap from the top-funded programs.

(10-12-2023 10:26 PM)unalions Wrote:  The gap for football budgets is pretty large from top to bottom. This is from 2021-22 and obviously doesn’t include private schools like USC and Notre Dame. Compiled by Sportico.


Rank School Football Total Operating Expenses 2021-22
1 Alabama $78,521,050
2 Washington $70,461,921
3 Ohio State $69,127,911
4 Georgia $61,722,123
5 Florida $61,244,174
6 LSU $59,384,456
7 Penn State $57,627,338
8 Ole Miss $55,107,688
9 Clemson $54,915,721
10 Florida State $54,558,109
11 Michigan $52,408,535
12 Auburn $52,254,829
13 Texas $51,550,666
14 Michigan State $51,227,199
15 Oklahoma $49,555,763
16 Iowa $49,396,133
17 Tennessee $47,194,884
18 Arkansas $46,994,950
19 Texas A&M $46,083,050
20 Rutgers $43,644,477
21 Virginia Tech $41,766,016
22 Minnesota $40,749,035
23 Oregon $40,726,930
24 Utah $40,071,987
25 Arizona State $39,264,216
26 Wisconsin $39,255,866
27 South Carolina $37,272,775
28 UCLA $36,989,741
29 Kentucky $36,465,661
30 Texas Tech $35,152,808
31 Nebraska $35,006,033
32 Louisville $34,994,933
33 North Carolina $34,451,491
34 California $34,014,921
35 Missouri $32,808,146
36 NC State $31,884,539
37 Indiana $31,835,580
38 Virginia $31,075,143
39 Colorado State $30,924,749
40 Maryland $30,801,233

It then has 40+ schools listed from $29M down to $11M.
It ends with those approx. $10M or less…

83 Toledo $10,959,679
84 Buffalo $10,806,655
85 New Mexico State $10,777,169
86 Massachusetts $10,714,987
87 Troy $10,648,072
88 Middle Tennessee $10,633,591
89 Miami (Ohio) $10,362,801
90 Texas State $10,261,457
91 New Mexico $10,192,230
92 Ohio $10,152,483
93 Western Kentucky $10,133,109
94 Eastern Michigan $10,066,357
95 FIU $9,887,723
96 Louisiana Tech $9,612,615
97 Georgia Southern $9,387,255
98 San Jose State $9,314,611
99 Western Michigan $9,257,649
100 Georgia State $9,235,632
101 Southern Mississippi $8,697,292
102 Ball State $8,341,965
103 Northern Illinois $8,153,654
104 Kent State $7,652,575
105 Louisiana, Monroe $7,383,496
106 Bowling Green $6,969,203
107 Akron $6,437,759


https://www.sportico.com/business/commer...234646029/

(09-06-2023 06:40 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-06-2023 04:28 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  Costs went way up when the government got involved. There is no such thing as "public" education. There is government and non-government education.

Government should quit encouraging young people to get into a bunch of debt in order to go to college. The more the government tries to make education "more affordable" the more universities increase their costs. When supply exceeds demand, costs will decrease. Look at the Forbes list for best value for your education. They look at education costs, amount of debt the average student carries post graduation and what they can expect to earn 7 years after they graduate among a couple other factors. I can say that my alma matter ranks 16th in the nation for public schools on Forbes.

It helps to think of things as being partly or fully 'taxpayer-funded.' That clears up any confusion about the relationship of 'public' and 'government' pretty quickly.

Before anyone makes 'the government' a whipping boy for driving up tuition costs, check out prices at private schools. Sit down first.

Higher education, like anything human beings do in groups, is a complex system. Many factors and pressures play a role in shaping things and driving evolution of the system to meet new needs.

The great news is that American higher education is one of the country's great national success stories. Its universities are respected throughout the world and create a global 'brain drain' the flows America's way. Research, higher education... these together are leading national exports. And the really great thing for Americans is that they get to keep these resources right next door and benefit from them, even as they export.



American K-12 education is a different story. Different model.