https://spartanswire.usatoday.com/2023/0...INkLzEE1Xs

That's not going to make it easy for second tier programs. P.J. Fleck can't be happy.

Yeah, pretty much expected, and TBH makes sense. In fact, I hope 10 is max.

I think for E/C/WMU, we'll still get our usual money games with UM and MSU. But things will start getting squeezed and MAC teams will need to widen their net with other conferences.

MSU's got 3 OOC games in 2025 with WMU included. UM's got 3 OOC games in 2025 (CMU included) and 2026 (WMU included). Now I can imagine the New Mexico and UTEP games are more at risk than the in-state MAC schools, but who knows?

At some point I wonder if the MAC goes to 9 conference games.

I give it only a few years before they increase the number of regular season games

(08-07-2023 09:15 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  That's not going to make it easy for second tier programs. P.J. Fleck can't be happy.

agree, i am kinda chuckling to myself, now they are going to start eating their own. Minnesota and the second tier B1G will not be hurting for money but definitely have a tougher time reaching the top now

(08-07-2023 09:20 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Yeah, pretty much expected, and TBH makes sense. In fact, I hope 10 is max.

I think for E/C/WMU, we'll still get our usual money games with UM and MSU. But things will start getting squeezed and MAC teams will need to widen their net with other conferences.

MSU's got 3 OOC games in 2025 with WMU included. UM's got 3 OOC games in 2025 (CMU included) and 2026 (WMU included). Now I can imagine the New Mexico and UTEP games are more at risk than the in-state MAC schools, but who knows?

At some point I wonder if the MAC goes to 9 conference games.

i could see less MAC vs B1G matchups honestly
For the B1G i could see 1 FCS and maybe 1 MAC then 10 conference. I think this really eliminates a BIG playing at a MAC venue now as well. They will no way want to risk a loss with a more difficult conference slate.

(08-07-2023 09:42 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 09:20 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Yeah, pretty much expected, and TBH makes sense. In fact, I hope 10 is max.

I think for E/C/WMU, we'll still get our usual money games with UM and MSU. But things will start getting squeezed and MAC teams will need to widen their net with other conferences.

MSU's got 3 OOC games in 2025 with WMU included. UM's got 3 OOC games in 2025 (CMU included) and 2026 (WMU included). Now I can imagine the New Mexico and UTEP games are more at risk than the in-state MAC schools, but who knows?

At some point I wonder if the MAC goes to 9 conference games.

i could see less MAC vs B1G matchups honestly
For the B1G i could see 1 FCS and maybe 1 MAC then 10 conference. I think this really eliminates a BIG playing at a MAC venue now as well. They will no way want to risk a loss with a more difficult conference slate.

Totally guessing here, but I think their two OOCs will only be G5s, and the FCS vs. B1G matchups will be history. Especially if there becomes an increased semi-official separation between P5 and G5. They'll go "down" to G5, but probably not double-down to FCS. SEC might continue doing so, though.

(08-07-2023 09:42 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 09:20 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Yeah, pretty much expected, and TBH makes sense. In fact, I hope 10 is max.

I think for E/C/WMU, we'll still get our usual money games with UM and MSU. But things will start getting squeezed and MAC teams will need to widen their net with other conferences.

MSU's got 3 OOC games in 2025 with WMU included. UM's got 3 OOC games in 2025 (CMU included) and 2026 (WMU included). Now I can imagine the New Mexico and UTEP games are more at risk than the in-state MAC schools, but who knows?

At some point I wonder if the MAC goes to 9 conference games.

i could see less MAC vs B1G matchups honestly
For the B1G i could see 1 FCS and maybe 1 MAC then 10 conference. I think this really eliminates a BIG playing at a MAC venue now as well. They will no way want to risk a loss with a more difficult conference slate.

First, thanks for posting. Rumors like this are the first indication of what we expect.

On the NIU forum, I posted the following, and post a slightly shortened version here. I hated writing it, for the record.

----------------------------------------
... this will trickle down to G5 conferences like the MAC, and it won't be good. These same comments were also made in the previous realignment round when UT and OU went to the SEC, Houston-Cincinnati-UCF left the AAC for the Big 12, BYU dropped independence for the Big 12, the AAC backfilled mostly with CUSA, some CUSA teams left for the Sun Belt, and CUSA backfilled with FCS move-ups.

Now, it's money, money, money and more money. Where that (IMO) will hit the G5s like the MAC is the loss of million-dollar paydays from regular-season games at P5 stadiums. Consider: an 18- to 20-team P5 conference will have all the regular-season games it needs to fill a schedule, including their own weaker programs. They will also have the weaker programs from other P conferences for o-o-c's.

But those weaker programs still have bigger names than many/all G5s, which means they'll still draw, both fans and viewership. Once in a while, a weaker program will win, just like the occasional G5 upset we all know and love.

Yes, the weaker P5s may schedule some G5s to try to get some wins, but they'll know they no longer have to pay a million because there will be plenty of cash-hungry G5s willing to sign up.

I suspect ESPN, FS1, CBSSports and other existing and potential media platforms have also figured this out. IMO, there will be no big-payday lifelines in new media rights deals, with or without a GOR. ESPN has pumped huge $ into the ACC, SEC and Big 12, but also cut payroll. Perhaps AppleTV, Amazon and Google will buy in, but they too have figured it out. Against all that, a conference network at the G5 level has no chance (for those who have suggested it).

I don't know how this all plays out; just wanted to add my thoughts, even though I don't like what I thought.

But if you agree at all, what can/should be done for NIU and the MAC?

(08-07-2023 08:59 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  https://spartanswire.usatoday.com/2023/0...INkLzEE1Xs

I don't think it necessarily hurts the MAC schools with scheduling Big Ten schools because those schools are looking to add at least a sixth and for many of them, a seventh home game every season.

With fewer chances at these types of games now, I'd expect the payouts of these such games to increase as well to compensate.

Are you all finally starting to see why this is going to be bad for the MAC/G5? There are several moving parts here:
- shrinking OOC games
- OOC rivalries trying to be maintained
- super conferences gaining more power
- some G5's are moving to power conferences/upgrading while the MAC is not

This is all bad for us. But judging by some of the comments I see here, I don't think people realize that. Eventually the power conferences will move to an all in-conference schedule, or they will slowly decrease their OOC games which in turn, limits the paydays for us. If a team only has 2 OOC games, it will be harder (obviously) for MAC teams to get those games. Especially when some of the new teams will want to maintain their rivalries with their former in-conference teams, that are now OOC.

(08-07-2023 12:05 PM)george14 Wrote:  Are you all finally starting to see why this is going to be bad for the MAC/G5?

Not really, no.

(08-07-2023 12:11 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 12:05 PM)george14 Wrote:  Are you all finally starting to see why this is going to be bad for the MAC/G5?

Not really, no.

Willful ignorance. Keep swimming against the current though, your arms will get tired eventually.

Why should we care if the power whatever conference plays us or not that there business. The MAC will be fine they will just have to make adjustments to the MAC budget of there own schools. As a UB Bulls fan I see shovels in the ground for our athletics center attached to our new field house that owned two years ago. Buffalo isn’t going anywhere the MAC will be fine. If need be just fill in schools that can’t go on without Power 5 Conference games. That is reality some FCS schools will do anything to be a MAC school. I actually think this is a good thing because there is no point playing FCS schools for the MAC nor Power 5 schools. I am fine with all MAC conferences games and paying for the ESPN+ streaming games like now I am good. It doesn’t affect the MAC. Actually there are schools that wish there PAC 12 conference had better leadership like the MAC conference to stay together where you can drive by car to conference opponents. You want UB to play Oregon across the country it’s ridiculous.

College football is minor league triple a football no matter how it is packaged it’s not NFL football which is good it’s not suppose to be. The networks and the greedy conferences are going to find that out eventually. When sports aren’t about the fans there is problems long term. College football isn’t alone as a NFL city the Buffalo Bills the National Football League has lost touch with reality with moving franchises and PSL’s it’s ridiculous. I have seen a lot in Buffalo sports fan and the national landscape of sports in almost 50 years I have been following. It’s all ridiculous when sports has no room for Oakland teams and down grading Bay Area schools football programs potentially California-Berkeley and Stanford the number six area television market that is crazy. The greed is ruining sports my heart goes out to the good Bay Area fans that lost a lot because of greedy and bad choices it’s sad. Yes there are some winners for now but at what price? You like less choice a world with just Walmart and Amazon but no Kmart, Woolworth, Hills? How are people winning? People lost jobs I know people don’t matter only money profits and greedy at all cost for the people making the decisions. I don’t want that and I am glad if the MAC just carried on without the Power 5 Conference games. There is a place for Mom and Pop stores in our country which the MAC is. Here is to Mom and Pop stores and the MAC. I don’t see why we all just can’t co exist as we are now and be happy in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo

(08-07-2023 01:04 PM)Buffalo Super Fan Wrote:  Why should we care if the power whatever conference plays us or not that there business. The MAC will be fine they will just have to make adjustments to the MAC budget of there own schools. As a UB Bulls fan I see shovels in the ground for our athletics center attached to our new field house that owned two years ago. Buffalo isn’t going anywhere the MAC will be fine. If need be just fill in schools that can’t go on without Power 5 Conference games. That is reality some FCS schools will do anything to be a MAC school. I actually think this is a good thing because there is no point playing FCS schools for the MAC nor Power 5 schools. I am fine with all MAC conferences games and paying for the ESPN+ streaming games like now I am good. It doesn’t affect the MAC. Actually there are schools that wish there PAC 12 conference had better leadership like the MAC conference to stay together where you can drive by car to conference opponents. You want UB to play Oregon across the country it’s ridiculous.

College football is minor league triple a football no matter how it is packaged it’s not NFL football which is good it’s not suppose to be. The networks and the greedy conferences are going to find that out eventually. When sports aren’t about the fans there is problems long term. College football isn’t alone as a NFL city the Buffalo Bills the National Football League has lost touch with reality with moving franchises and PSL’s it’s ridiculous. I have seen a lot in Buffalo sports fan and the national landscape of sports in almost 50 years I have been following. It’s all ridiculous when sports has no room for Oakland teams and down grading Bay Area schools football programs potentially California-Berkeley and Stanford the number six area television market that is crazy. The greed is ruining sports my heart goes out to the good Bay Area fans that lost a lot because of greedy and bad choices it’s sad. Yes there are some winners for now but at what price? You like less choice a world with just Walmart and Amazon but no Kmart, Woolworth, Hills? How are people winning? People lost jobs I know people don’t matter only money profits and greedy at all cost for the people making the decisions. I don’t want that and I am glad if the MAC just carried on without the Power 5 Conference games. There is a place for Mom and Pop stores in our country which the MAC is. Here is to Mom and Pop stores and the MAC. I don’t see why we all just can’t co exist as we are now and be happy in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo

we care because games against the big 10, sec etc fund our entire athletic budget! Less OOC games the big plays, less payday games for the MAC.
Its not like we can charge 45$ a ticket and sell out to recapture lost money from these games

(08-07-2023 10:21 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 08:59 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  https://spartanswire.usatoday.com/2023/0...INkLzEE1Xs

I don't think it necessarily hurts the MAC schools with scheduling Big Ten schools because those schools are looking to add at least a sixth and for many of them, a seventh home game every season.

sure but if they are only playing 2 OOC games Im sure one will be an FCS. Leaves each BIG 10 only possible having 1 MAC game. Then SEC will do the same and so forth. I really think we are at a crossroads now.

(08-07-2023 02:39 PM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 10:21 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 08:59 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  https://spartanswire.usatoday.com/2023/0...INkLzEE1Xs

I don't think it necessarily hurts the MAC schools with scheduling Big Ten schools because those schools are looking to add at least a sixth and for many of them, a seventh home game every season.

sure but if they are only playing 2 OOC games Im sure one will be an FCS. Leaves each BIG 10 only possible having 1 MAC game. Then SEC will do the same and so forth. I really think we are at a crossroads now.

It's all simple math. There used to be 4 OOC games, then 3, now 2, etc. etc. Even if some MAC schools get 2 P5 games, that may not be for long. Mathematically it's less OOC games which means there is less chance to schedule P5. And keep in mind some of the OOC games will be reserved for rivals that left their old conference, but their rival didn't join.

(08-07-2023 02:45 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 02:39 PM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 10:21 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 08:59 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  https://spartanswire.usatoday.com/2023/0...INkLzEE1Xs

I don't think it necessarily hurts the MAC schools with scheduling Big Ten schools because those schools are looking to add at least a sixth and for many of them, a seventh home game every season.

sure but if they are only playing 2 OOC games Im sure one will be an FCS. Leaves each BIG 10 only possible having 1 MAC game. Then SEC will do the same and so forth. I really think we are at a crossroads now.

It's all simple math. There used to be 4 OOC games, then 3, now 2, etc. etc. Even if some MAC schools get 2 P5 games, that may not be for long. Mathematically it's less OOC games which means there is less chance to schedule P5. And keep in mind some of the OOC games will be reserved for rivals that left their old conference, but their rival didn't join.

My feeling as well George. The big will do what's best for themselves, not the MAC.

(08-07-2023 02:38 PM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 01:04 PM)Buffalo Super Fan Wrote:  Why should we care if the power whatever conference plays us or not that there business. The MAC will be fine they will just have to make adjustments to the MAC budget of there own schools. As a UB Bulls fan I see shovels in the ground for our athletics center attached to our new field house that owned two years ago. Buffalo isn’t going anywhere the MAC will be fine. If need be just fill in schools that can’t go on without Power 5 Conference games. That is reality some FCS schools will do anything to be a MAC school. I actually think this is a good thing because there is no point playing FCS schools for the MAC nor Power 5 schools. I am fine with all MAC conferences games and paying for the ESPN+ streaming games like now I am good. It doesn’t affect the MAC. Actually there are schools that wish there PAC 12 conference had better leadership like the MAC conference to stay together where you can drive by car to conference opponents. You want UB to play Oregon across the country it’s ridiculous.

College football is minor league triple a football no matter how it is packaged it’s not NFL football which is good it’s not suppose to be. The networks and the greedy conferences are going to find that out eventually. When sports aren’t about the fans there is problems long term. College football isn’t alone as a NFL city the Buffalo Bills the National Football League has lost touch with reality with moving franchises and PSL’s it’s ridiculous. I have seen a lot in Buffalo sports fan and the national landscape of sports in almost 50 years I have been following. It’s all ridiculous when sports has no room for Oakland teams and down grading Bay Area schools football programs potentially California-Berkeley and Stanford the number six area television market that is crazy. The greed is ruining sports my heart goes out to the good Bay Area fans that lost a lot because of greedy and bad choices it’s sad. Yes there are some winners for now but at what price? You like less choice a world with just Walmart and Amazon but no Kmart, Woolworth, Hills? How are people winning? People lost jobs I know people don’t matter only money profits and greedy at all cost for the people making the decisions. I don’t want that and I am glad if the MAC just carried on without the Power 5 Conference games. There is a place for Mom and Pop stores in our country which the MAC is. Here is to Mom and Pop stores and the MAC. I don’t see why we all just can’t co exist as we are now and be happy in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo

we care because games against the big 10, sec etc fund our entire athletic budget! Less OOC games the big plays, less payday games for the MAC.
Its not like we can charge 45$ a ticket and sell out to recapture lost money from these games

Interesting point. You have to wonder if some schools will survive if they lose the big payday road money games. Not to pick on Kent State, but I have always heard that Kent had to play two or three road games to support their athletic program. Last year they played Washington; Oklahoma and Georgia on the road. If some schools are denied these big payday games, will their athletic programs have to make major cuts?

Like you posted, some schools can't charge high ticket prices. I realize some schools to have to rely on student fees to support their programs, but with declining enrollments that may be a problem. Inflation is forecasted to last another couple years which puts more pressure on athletic programs. Another issue is the NIL for some schools.

(08-07-2023 03:58 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 02:38 PM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(08-07-2023 01:04 PM)Buffalo Super Fan Wrote:  Why should we care if the power whatever conference plays us or not that there business. The MAC will be fine they will just have to make adjustments to the MAC budget of there own schools. As a UB Bulls fan I see shovels in the ground for our athletics center attached to our new field house that owned two years ago. Buffalo isn’t going anywhere the MAC will be fine. If need be just fill in schools that can’t go on without Power 5 Conference games. That is reality some FCS schools will do anything to be a MAC school. I actually think this is a good thing because there is no point playing FCS schools for the MAC nor Power 5 schools. I am fine with all MAC conferences games and paying for the ESPN+ streaming games like now I am good. It doesn’t affect the MAC. Actually there are schools that wish there PAC 12 conference had better leadership like the MAC conference to stay together where you can drive by car to conference opponents. You want UB to play Oregon across the country it’s ridiculous.

College football is minor league triple a football no matter how it is packaged it’s not NFL football which is good it’s not suppose to be. The networks and the greedy conferences are going to find that out eventually. When sports aren’t about the fans there is problems long term. College football isn’t alone as a NFL city the Buffalo Bills the National Football League has lost touch with reality with moving franchises and PSL’s it’s ridiculous. I have seen a lot in Buffalo sports fan and the national landscape of sports in almost 50 years I have been following. It’s all ridiculous when sports has no room for Oakland teams and down grading Bay Area schools football programs potentially California-Berkeley and Stanford the number six area television market that is crazy. The greed is ruining sports my heart goes out to the good Bay Area fans that lost a lot because of greedy and bad choices it’s sad. Yes there are some winners for now but at what price? You like less choice a world with just Walmart and Amazon but no Kmart, Woolworth, Hills? How are people winning? People lost jobs I know people don’t matter only money profits and greedy at all cost for the people making the decisions. I don’t want that and I am glad if the MAC just carried on without the Power 5 Conference games. There is a place for Mom and Pop stores in our country which the MAC is. Here is to Mom and Pop stores and the MAC. I don’t see why we all just can’t co exist as we are now and be happy in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo

we care because games against the big 10, sec etc fund our entire athletic budget! Less OOC games the big plays, less payday games for the MAC.
Its not like we can charge 45$ a ticket and sell out to recapture lost money from these games

Interesting point. You have to wonder if some schools will survive if they lose the big payday road money games. Not to pick on Kent State, but I have always heard that Kent had to play two or three road games to support their athletic program. Last year they played Washington; Oklahoma and Georgia on the road. If some schools are denied these big payday games, will their athletic programs have to make major cuts?

Like you posted, some schools can't charge high ticket prices. I realize some schools to have to rely on student fees to support their programs, but with declining enrollments that may be a problem. Inflation is forecasted to last another couple years which puts more pressure on athletic programs. Another issue is the NIL for some schools.

Yes I am concerned no doubt. CMU just put it a 55m end zone facility and appears we owe quite a bit still. This season we have 5 home games and one is fcs. I wonder how this will be sustainable moving forward if the P5 starts to limit games vs the G5