(08-03-2023 01:13 PM)pono Wrote:  everyone is missing the opportunity here. streaming opens the door to broadcasting the product in a completely new and groundbreaking way. the MAC can't compete w P5 (P4?) for name recognition and thus good slots on regular Saturday TV. Our broadcasts, even the ESPN2 ones are modestly produced and not unique. Change the way the games are produced-camera angles, sound, crowd shots, pacing, social media interaction, commentary (maybe try not having 2 people constantly talk on mic throughout the game)... be experimental, and sell the product as cutting edge sports broadcasting. MAC ESPN money is peanuts, 1 or 2 million goes nowhere in terms of running good D1 sports programs. exposure is about interest in the product regardless of when the games are played (have 6 MAC games on Sat, one H / one A Midweek-is the compromise I suggest) so make the product unique.

One thing I will also say on this is for the MAC its not a must to be on ESPN like it might be for Colorado FB or Arizona BB. MAC can recruit to the G5 level without having it.

Maybe a move to Amazon would get the MAC out of the shadow of all the G5 conferences on ESPN. Another question is would it make sense to keep the brand tight for a move like that (don't go beyond 12). Easier for those watching to gain familarity I suppose.

(08-03-2023 06:18 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 06:13 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 05:11 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 03:28 PM)astr083 Wrote:  Why not look into what the ACC did with the CW... It's a national network and like the MAC (with the exception of NIU), all of their members are located in the Eastern Time Zone. Why can't the MAC work with the same network to get games on before or after the ACC game/s of the week (noon or 3:30, or even primetime)? If the MWC can do the same with CBS on Saturdays at noon, the MAC surely could come to terms with a good Saturday TV deal on the CW. Games can be easily accessed on a national network (no need for cable), and can be streamed on nearly any service. What's not to like? Additionally, the league can give ESPN games on Thursday's or Friday's to be played on ESPNU, or CBS Sports. I am totally done with the mid-week Tuesday/Wednesday games, especially when half of them are being played on ESPNU, CBS Sports, or even streamed on ESPN+. These are networks that cost extra on most cable services. At least Thursdays and Fridays would provide easier nights for students and fans to attend games, and still give the league nearly the same exposure as they get on Tuesday/Wednesday's. Time to start thinking outside the box a bit more. Status quo with the ESPN TV Deal has not worked.... In fact it has only gotten worse.

I believe 20 years ago the Big Ten used to have a noon game that aired based on agreement with local television stations, serving as a lead-in to the 3:30 p.m. ABC game. I think that went away when the Big Ten Network was launched and the Big Ten needed to conserve its content for that platform.

For a couple of years after that, the MAC was getting games on local TV stations per a similar arrangement, basically stepping in to fill the void. If memory serves, I watched Bowling Green beat Pittsburgh in 2009 on a local Columbus station.

For some reason that went away. A likely explanation is a lack of demand for these games on local television, but I'm speculating.

The move away from local TV sports programming. Decline of the regional sports network. Decision to focus on streaming.

ESPN deal forbades those type of arrangements anymore most likely.

As I recall, the over-the-air local games included ESPN graphics and the like. Given that ESPN seems fine with letting some of our games air on the CBS Sports Network, I'd be surprised if they've prohibited sublicensing (I think that's the right term) to local television.

ESPN has that system where they split carriage into tiers, Tier 1/Tier 2 are the ones they want to pick up for TV and everything else is Tier 3. ESPNs deal with the MAC I believe requires Tier 3 to go sublicence or stream.

Ohio back in 2007 had a deal with cable network to televise in the Columbus market. It was called GTN and they broadcasted 8 Ohio games locally that year. That was shut down by the next MAC deal starting in 2008.

(08-03-2023 05:11 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 03:28 PM)astr083 Wrote:  Why not look into what the ACC did with the CW... It's a national network and like the MAC (with the exception of NIU), all of their members are located in the Eastern Time Zone. Why can't the MAC work with the same network to get games on before or after the ACC game/s of the week (noon or 3:30, or even primetime)? If the MWC can do the same with CBS on Saturdays at noon, the MAC surely could come to terms with a good Saturday TV deal on the CW. Games can be easily accessed on a national network (no need for cable), and can be streamed on nearly any service. What's not to like? Additionally, the league can give ESPN games on Thursday's or Friday's to be played on ESPNU, or CBS Sports. I am totally done with the mid-week Tuesday/Wednesday games, especially when half of them are being played on ESPNU, CBS Sports, or even streamed on ESPN+. These are networks that cost extra on most cable services. At least Thursdays and Fridays would provide easier nights for students and fans to attend games, and still give the league nearly the same exposure as they get on Tuesday/Wednesday's. Time to start thinking outside the box a bit more. Status quo with the ESPN TV Deal has not worked.... In fact it has only gotten worse.

I believe 20 years ago the Big Ten used to have a noon game that aired based on agreement with local television stations, serving as a lead-in to the 3:30 p.m. ABC game. I think that went away when the Big Ten Network was launched and the Big Ten needed to conserve its content for that platform.

For a couple of years after that, the MAC was getting games on local TV stations per a similar arrangement, basically stepping in to fill the void. If memory serves, I watched Bowling Green beat Pittsburgh in 2009 on a local Columbus station.

For some reason that went away. A likely explanation is a lack of demand for these games on local television, but I'm speculating.

Yes, I remember this too. These games were played on local TV featuring regionally based teams through the different conference affiliated networks, (i.e. Raycom, Jefferson Piolet, ESPN+, etc.). This was before ESPN3, and well before ESPN+ was turned into a streaming-only platform. A deal with CW would be different. Like the ACC deal, it would be a national broadcast, not local. If I am not mistaken, Raycom will be producing the games and broadcasting them nationally for the ACC on the CW. The MAC should look into Raycom to see if it's possible to get a similar deal, albeit for less money. A national TV audience on a Saturday broadcasted via a national network would do wonders with regards to exposure for the league. If football takes off on the CW, I could see Thursday night national TV games getting into the mix as well. Additionally, if the MAC is in the mix, their games could be considered for both Saturdays and Thursdays under the terms of the contract/media deal. The ACC, (a major brand) is already signed in, and it would be a great opportunity for the MAC to piggyback off of their deal to try and get more access/exposure for themselves. I could see this being a win-win for the ACC and MAC as back-to-back games would turn on TV's in regions outside of each leagues footprints.

As a side-note, I remember when people snickered at the fact that FOX was taking over NFL games from NBC & CBS, and then later college football, and to be honest, it was a really smart idea. It was sports that turned that network into what it is today. This could be a great opportunity for the CW to do the same, and for the MAC to get onboard before any other G5. The ACC has already signed the deal and are all in, so I see no reason why the MAC can't get in early and strike a deal before another G5, while at the same time scaling down their contract with ESPN, or at the very least allowing Raycom to take their choice of the Tier 1 games for national TV games on the CW, while ESPN has the first option of tier 2 and 3 games, with the option to also sublicense those games to CBS Sports Network. No need to give them free reign of the conference's top content for mid-week. They have enough, and do very little with it.

(08-02-2023 11:53 AM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  Cumulative weeks with a top 25 rank over the last five years by G5 conference:

AAC: 65
Sun Belt: 63
MWC: 57
CUSA: 10
MAC: 4

I have yet to see any tangible evidence that midweek exposure is a benefit to the schools. It is not helping recruiting, making the programs more competitive, increasing attendance, or helping enrollment.

This is also why the MAC needs new leadership. All this we are stable and know who we are messaging that comes from the league office wreaks of no effort is being made to improve. The MAC has been coasting ever since it locked its last ESPN deal and the landscape has changed significantly. The next media deal should set the stage for a change in how the MAC goes to market with its product. Signing an extension of what is currently in place would be a mistake in my view.

It's because we have had a joke product on the field. The eyeballs are there to showoff if we play better. For those who think the Saturday experience is so much better than midweek... fill your stadiums early in the year and prove it.

It seems conferences, for the most part, are disappointed when looking away from ESPN. Think it's best to stick with ESPN and can include streaming.

Sent from my SM-G990U using CSNbbs mobile app

BTW (to pono) when I said "TV media rights" I meant everything including streaming. Just got tired of all that typing over and over and over.

To Garden KC: ESPN "owns" *all* of the MAC rights through mid-2027. At this time, it looks like Florida State is trying to find a way to break out of the ACC GOR, which runs through 2036. A 10-year MAC GOR would run through mid-2037. Already, a proposed GOR was alleged to have partially helped douse any inclination of WKU-MTSU to join. The MAC needs to be careful about locking in for too long.

That said, a Sun Belt forum poster cited a local news report (Daily News-Record/Harrisonburg+Shenandoah Valley) about how conference viewership improved over the previous year, and cited actual numbers. The report also noted that "SBC commissioner Keith Gill was the only Group of Five conference head to boast about his league’s total viewership from last season at this month’s media days."

Aside from a bit of brag, OK, but when and where do we ever hear how the MAC is doing? Without that, all this talk about what the MAC might/could/should do is as irrelevant as the numbers from other conferences. So, anyone have info on MAC #s?

Getting a handle on that also makes it more viable to discuss conference expansion aimed at enhancing the MAC's leverage, etc etc .

MAC better not sign another 13-year terrible deal with ESPN. That was dumb. Even the other G5 conferences aren't signing for half as long.

I think the previous MAC-ESPN deal had a few years to run when Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher announced a 10-year extension (to mid-2027), how great a deal it was, blah blah blah.

But you're right ... the MAC should be careful to extend or make a new deal that goes too far beyond the GORs of other conferences. The MAC may have been the first G5 to make such a deal, but doesn't have to leap ahead again in that regard. With all the %$#@ that's going on with $ per the PAC, Big 12, etc., and evolving platforms, that could be a dangerous move in a lot of ways. Sometimes it's good to sit back a bit and watch the others chew up everything.

(08-03-2023 09:10 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  BTW (to pono) when I said "TV media rights" I meant everything including streaming. Just got tired of all that typing over and over and over.

To Garden KC: ESPN "owns" *all* of the MAC rights through mid-2027. At this time, it looks like Florida State is trying to find a way to break out of the ACC GOR, which runs through 2036. A 10-year MAC GOR would run through mid-2037. Already, a proposed GOR was alleged to have partially helped douse any inclination of WKU-MTSU to join. The MAC needs to be careful about locking in for too long.

GOR is a specific clause that means another conference can't be paid if you move and start playing games there. MAC schools have a TV deal with ESPN not a GOR. Steinbrecher hasn't signed one as there wasn't a great fear of schools leaving the conference. Its like the PAC where anyone can leave in a minutes notice.

The GOR for WKU/MT was new and was likely to lock the MAC into ESPN for a greater sum of money than previously.

(08-03-2023 08:45 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  It seems conferences, for the most part, are disappointed when looking away from ESPN. Think it's best to stick with ESPN and can include streaming.

Sent from my SM-G990U using CSNbbs mobile app

Like the MWC games on Stadium and CUSA games on Facebook. CUSA almost killed itself over bad TV decisions.

Fox could give the MAC a shot and the MAC could move midweek FB over to FS1 and FS2 perhaps for better money. CBS I believe is primary for the MWC at the moment. They paid up for the MWC on that last TV contract.

It doesn't seem like there is room to move up in telecasts on ESPN since they have gone in with 14 team SBC and AAC.

(08-03-2023 11:21 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 09:10 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  BTW (to pono) when I said "TV media rights" I meant everything including streaming. Just got tired of all that typing over and over and over.

To Garden KC: ESPN "owns" *all* of the MAC rights through mid-2027. At this time, it looks like Florida State is trying to find a way to break out of the ACC GOR, which runs through 2036. A 10-year MAC GOR would run through mid-2037. Already, a proposed GOR was alleged to have partially helped douse any inclination of WKU-MTSU to join. The MAC needs to be careful about locking in for too long.

GOR is a specific clause that means another conference can't be paid if you move and start playing games there. MAC schools have a TV deal with ESPN not a GOR. Steinbrecher hasn't signed one as there wasn't a great fear of schools leaving the conference. Its like the PAC where anyone can leave in a minutes notice.

The GOR for WKU/MT was new and was likely to lock the MAC into ESPN for a greater sum of money than previously.

All relevant points and all discussed/known by us two years ago during the big realignment "fling." But thanks for the repeat. Starting from where I said "At this point ... ," as the current deal with ESPN approaches its mid-2027 end, the MAC needs IMO to track where other deals/GORs extend so it doesn't run too far beyond ... if its members sign a GOR this time around.

Also, FYI, both WKU and MTSU were not under any kind of ESPN media rights umbrella at the time (CUSA now has a CBS/ESPN deal). I do not know if there is a GOR involved. The WKU AD did not mention it during a recent interview on the new contract. Anyway, adding both and a GOR would have been an inducement to ESPN to increase payouts to the MAC. No $ figures were posted, to my knowledge. MTSU, however, didn't want a GOR that hampered its indicated desire to grab a spot in the AAC if Memphis moved out to the Big 12. That may/may not happen yet. BTW, that was WKU's second flirtation with getting into the MAC. Posts on its board indicate the idea has cooled off.

BTW, my "nitpick" of your post was only to avoid those long chain posts that bore a lot of us.

Anyway, I'm about done with this since there is too much unknown at this point. But you-all have at it.

(08-04-2023 04:26 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 11:21 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 09:10 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  BTW (to pono) when I said "TV media rights" I meant everything including streaming. Just got tired of all that typing over and over and over.

To Garden KC: ESPN "owns" *all* of the MAC rights through mid-2027. At this time, it looks like Florida State is trying to find a way to break out of the ACC GOR, which runs through 2036. A 10-year MAC GOR would run through mid-2037. Already, a proposed GOR was alleged to have partially helped douse any inclination of WKU-MTSU to join. The MAC needs to be careful about locking in for too long.

GOR is a specific clause that means another conference can't be paid if you move and start playing games there. MAC schools have a TV deal with ESPN not a GOR. Steinbrecher hasn't signed one as there wasn't a great fear of schools leaving the conference. Its like the PAC where anyone can leave in a minutes notice.

The GOR for WKU/MT was new and was likely to lock the MAC into ESPN for a greater sum of money than previously.

All relevant points and all discussed/known by us two years ago during the big realignment "fling." But thanks for the repeat. Starting from where I said "At this point ... ," as the current deal with ESPN approaches its mid-2027 end, the MAC needs IMO to track where other deals/GORs extend so it doesn't run too far beyond ... if its members sign a GOR this time around.

Also, FYI, both WKU and MTSU were not under any kind of ESPN media rights umbrella at the time (CUSA now has a CBS/ESPN deal). I do not know if there is a GOR involved. The WKU AD did not mention it during a recent interview on the new contract. Anyway, adding both and a GOR would have been an inducement to ESPN to increase payouts to the MAC. No $ figures were posted, to my knowledge. MTSU, however, didn't want a GOR that hampered its indicated desire to grab a spot in the AAC if Memphis moved out to the Big 12. That may/may not happen yet. BTW, that was WKU's second flirtation with getting into the MAC. Posts on its board indicate the idea has cooled off.

BTW, my "nitpick" of your post was only to avoid those long chain posts that bore a lot of us.

Anyway, I'm about done with this since there is too much unknown at this point. But you-all have at it.

Gentlemen, great discussion and all relevant.

More reason to end the ESPN partnership.

Not a single MAC team getting ESPN or OTA coverage during regular season in-conference games.

Yes to a new streaming deal.

Let's get out from under ESPN's greasy thumb, and get our SATURDAY GAMES BACK.

Many of our games were ESPN+ anyway.

(01-25-2024 09:45 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  More reason to end the ESPN partnership.

Not a single MAC team getting ESPN or OTA coverage during regular season in-conference games.

Wait, the solution to the fact that ESPN2 is the best exposure the MAC gets is to abandon the best exposure the MAC gets for a lower exposure streaming deal?

No to streaming only.

No to streaming only. Let's also try to get a deal with the CW since they are picking up more and more sports.

Here's another interesting graphic that guy made about which channels get better ratings.

(01-27-2024 12:11 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  No to streaming only. Let's also try to get a deal with the CW since they are picking up more and more sports.

Here's another interesting graphic that guy made about which channels get better ratings.

That graphics says that the CW does slightly worse than ESPN2 Saturday, but if the CW had any interest in showing a MAC game on Saturday, that only requires ditching the CBSSN sublicensing.

In the pre-MACtion week, four teams play on Saturday, as at present ... two of them on the CW.

In the first MACtion week, four teams play, Tue/Wed, as at present, 2xESPN2, 2xESPNU. However, only two of the pre-MACtion round teams have a bye, one from each of the pre-MACtion Saturday game, while the other two play each other on Saturday on the CW.

In the second MACtion week, the two that just played each other on Saturday have a bye, the two teams that had the first week bye join six of the eight from the previous week, and two teams that played in the first round play on Saturday on the CW.

In the third MACtion week, the two that had a bye the previous week join six of the eight from the previous week, and two of the eight from the previous week play on Saturday against the two teams that played Saturday in Round 2.

Then in the fourth, "half MACtion" Thanksgiving Tuesday, four of the eight teams from from the previous midweek play, and the remaining eight play on Friday/Saturday as at present, hopefully with one on each day on the CW, similar to the the one each on Black Friday and on Saturday on CBSSN this last season.

It seems like getting on the CW is more about whether the CW wants to put the MAC on than whether the ESPN contract is extended.

If it makes us more money we have to.

(01-29-2024 12:37 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  If it makes us more money we have to.

The MAC schools spend the money for exposure. That's why the MAC took the deal with 6 ESPN2 games getting, as we have seen, about 300,000 viewers each, and another (from the 2023 broadcast schedule) 11 on ESPNU and 10 on CBSSN, where ESPNU averages around 100K and CBSSN likely draws similar.

If they can get a game a week on the CW on Saturdays, say in October and November, that'd likely be an audience in between ESPN2 and ESPNU, so they'd probably go for it, even if it didn't increase their revenue.