https://twitter.com/collegead/status/167...H9t7UuAAAA

(06-24-2023 10:40 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  NCAA to explore pushing FBS entrance fee to $5 million

Judy's phone is already blowing up ...

Good find BW

Didn't access the link, but gotta figure G5 member schools — specifically those with little to no hope of a call-up to a P-Lite conference — are the ones looking to build a wall.

The SEC, B1G and whatever P-Lite conference(s) exist(s) are gonna (rightly) hoard the lion's share of CFP revenue, essentially telling G5's "take it or leave it" when it comes to the remaining sliver of the pie.

Looks like the CFP's "peasants fighting over scraps" dynamic is already beginning to take shape

IMO if the goal is to limit the amount of schools joining FBS this will do no good, schools bent on becoming FBS will just sock their students or the taxpayers with more fees and transfers to pay it.

The only way IMO that FBS can be limited is if the P5 break off and form their own organization. Because I think the goal of these noob FBS joiners is to get the shine-ruboff of being associated with the P5. A Northwest Texas Panhandle State that goes FBS does it because its donors and boosters want to be "in the same league" with Alabama, Texas, USC, etc. It makes them feel "big time", a pride thing.

So you have to take that away from them.

Problem is, since the dawn of "autonomy", the P5 have good reasons to like the growth of FBS (more cannon-fodder schools to feast on) and really no reason to oppose them.

This is titled the "DavidSt Rule" in legislation as the NCAA is trying to prevent conferences from going on a DavidSt-like spree.

This would be a great story "starter" for Matt Brown.

IMO--the FIVE Million Dollar number WOULD hinder "some" of the possible schools that want to become FBS.

Estimating 30-40%.

MORE Importantly---it would push schools currently "on the fence" (NDSU, Missouri St., Delaware, etc.) to act before the new number goes into effect.

But--like a lot of NCAA proposals this may:

-- drag on forever
-- never happen
-- get reduced

Anyone remember what the current fee is? I'm thinking right now the amount is 1 or 2 million?

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO if the goal is to limit the amount of schools joining FBS this will do no good, schools bent on becoming FBS will just sock their students or the taxpayers with more fees and transfers to pay it.

When there's a will, there's a way, right?

The Power Conference schools couldn't care less about these FCS evacuees moving up -- their share of the CFP revenue or playoff bids won't decrease one bit because Judy is bringing in Eastern Kentucky and TAMU-Tarleton to fill out her conference.

The G5 schools are the ones fighting over loose change here — although splitting that $5M entry fee from any school willing and able to pay it wouldn't be the worst thing

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The only way IMO that FBS can be limited is if the P5 break off and form their own organization. Because I think the goal of these noob FBS joiners is to get the shine-ruboff of being associated with the P5. A Northwest Texas Panhandle State that goes FBS does it because its donors and boosters want to be "in the same league" with Alabama, Texas, USC, etc. It makes them feel "big time", a pride thing. So you have to take that away from them.

Two good reasons for the Power Conference schools not to breakaway:

1) They can divide the money and make the rules how they see fit without having to leave the NCAA. G5 schools have little choice but to go along for the ride.

2 Too many potential legal and PR headaches with a breakaway move. Again, better to keep the threat of leaving as a valuable leverage tool

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Problem is, since the dawn of "autonomy", the P5 have good reasons to like the growth of FBS (more cannon-fodder schools to feast on) and really no reason to oppose them.

The number of non-conference bodybag games in the two revenue sports are likely to decrease, not increase because more conference games will be a direct result of conferences expanding to 20 or more teams.

The media companies and the fans don't like bodybag games (the occasional upset notwithstanding). The inevitable de-emphasis on consolation prizes like bowl games and the NIT will make padding one's W-L record less of an incentive

It already costs $1.5M to join D1. So, $5M doesn’t sound like a big deal. Schools will pay it with no problem when the time comes.

Other than Liberty, what was the last private school to upgrade to FBS?

I think there's a pattern here.

STUPID. how about they raise it to 50 million so know one else joins

(06-24-2023 01:02 PM)Illinoisking91 Wrote:  STUPID. how about they raise it to 50 million so know one else joins

I'm good with this

(06-24-2023 12:34 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO if the goal is to limit the amount of schools joining FBS this will do no good, schools bent on becoming FBS will just sock their students or the taxpayers with more fees and transfers to pay it.

When there's a will, there's a way, right?

The Power Conference schools couldn't care less about these FCS evacuees moving up -- their share of the CFP revenue or playoff bids won't decrease one bit because Judy is bringing in Eastern Kentucky and TAMU-Tarleton to fill out her conference.

The G5 schools are the ones fighting over loose change here — although splitting that $5M entry fee from any school willing and able to pay it wouldn't be the worst thing

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The only way IMO that FBS can be limited is if the P5 break off and form their own organization. Because I think the goal of these noob FBS joiners is to get the shine-ruboff of being associated with the P5. A Northwest Texas Panhandle State that goes FBS does it because its donors and boosters want to be "in the same league" with Alabama, Texas, USC, etc. It makes them feel "big time", a pride thing. So you have to take that away from them.

Two good reasons for the Power Conference schools not to breakaway:

1) They can divide the money and make the rules how they see fit without having to leave the NCAA. G5 schools have little choice but to go along for the ride.

2 Too many potential legal and PR headaches with a breakaway move. Again, better to keep the threat of leaving as a valuable leverage tool

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Problem is, since the dawn of "autonomy", the P5 have good reasons to like the growth of FBS (more cannon-fodder schools to feast on) and really no reason to oppose them.

The number of non-conference bodybag games in the two revenue sports are likely to decrease, not increase because more conference games will be a direct result of conferences expanding to 20 or more teams.

The media companies and the fans don't like bodybag games (the occasional upset notwithstanding). The inevitable de-emphasis on consolation prizes like bowl games and the NIT will make padding one's W-L record less of an incentive

It will never fly either. The schools who wants to join FBS will take the NCAA and the FBS schools to court by suing for discrimination. It would not look good on them if they deny a school like NC A&T and Tennessee State who wants to be in FBS.

(06-24-2023 01:02 PM)Illinoisking91 Wrote:  STUPID. how about they raise it to 50 million so know one else joins

Exactly what I was going to say. Or make it punitive like $50M. I'm not sure theyll be able to milk students for that much money.

(06-24-2023 01:02 PM)Illinoisking91 Wrote:  STUPID. how about they raise it to 50 million so know one else joins

"Let's do this thing to prevent new competition."
Textbook anti-trust violation. Did half this board sleep through high school civics class?

IMO the extra 4 million will be a little painful to cough up for some schools already on the "fence" economically.

ALSO-- the "beat the deadline" savings will encourage some to accept an invite a tad sooner if offered.

(06-24-2023 01:44 PM)clunk Wrote:  

(06-24-2023 01:02 PM)Illinoisking91 Wrote:  STUPID. how about they raise it to 50 million so know one else joins

"Let's do this thing to prevent new competition."
Textbook anti-trust violation. Did half this board sleep through high school civics class?

So Mr. Lawyer, explain how $5M isn't anti-competitive but $50M suddenly is? Definitely Bison.

(06-24-2023 01:37 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-24-2023 12:34 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO if the goal is to limit the amount of schools joining FBS this will do no good, schools bent on becoming FBS will just sock their students or the taxpayers with more fees and transfers to pay it.

When there's a will, there's a way, right?

The Power Conference schools couldn't care less about these FCS evacuees moving up -- their share of the CFP revenue or playoff bids won't decrease one bit because Judy is bringing in Eastern Kentucky and TAMU-Tarleton to fill out her conference.

The G5 schools are the ones fighting over loose change here — although splitting that $5M entry fee from any school willing and able to pay it wouldn't be the worst thing

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The only way IMO that FBS can be limited is if the P5 break off and form their own organization. Because I think the goal of these noob FBS joiners is to get the shine-ruboff of being associated with the P5. A Northwest Texas Panhandle State that goes FBS does it because its donors and boosters want to be "in the same league" with Alabama, Texas, USC, etc. It makes them feel "big time", a pride thing. So you have to take that away from them.

Two good reasons for the Power Conference schools not to breakaway:

1) They can divide the money and make the rules how they see fit without having to leave the NCAA. G5 schools have little choice but to go along for the ride.

2 Too many potential legal and PR headaches with a breakaway move. Again, better to keep the threat of leaving as a valuable leverage tool

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Problem is, since the dawn of "autonomy", the P5 have good reasons to like the growth of FBS (more cannon-fodder schools to feast on) and really no reason to oppose them.

The number of non-conference bodybag games in the two revenue sports are likely to decrease, not increase because more conference games will be a direct result of conferences expanding to 20 or more teams.

The media companies and the fans don't like bodybag games (the occasional upset notwithstanding). The inevitable de-emphasis on consolation prizes like bowl games and the NIT will make padding one's W-L record less of an incentive

It will never fly either. The schools who wants to join FBS will take the NCAA and the FBS schools to court by suing for discrimination. It would not look good on them if they deny a school like NC A&T and Tennessee State who wants to be in FBS.

And part of Discovery will be how schools like these are running at extreme deficits only to chase some odd FBS pipe dream. Not sure that'll go over well with student body and state authorities.

(06-24-2023 01:37 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-24-2023 12:34 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO if the goal is to limit the amount of schools joining FBS this will do no good, schools bent on becoming FBS will just sock their students or the taxpayers with more fees and transfers to pay it.

When there's a will, there's a way, right?

The Power Conference schools couldn't care less about these FCS evacuees moving up -- their share of the CFP revenue or playoff bids won't decrease one bit because Judy is bringing in Eastern Kentucky and TAMU-Tarleton to fill out her conference.

The G5 schools are the ones fighting over loose change here — although splitting that $5M entry fee from any school willing and able to pay it wouldn't be the worst thing

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The only way IMO that FBS can be limited is if the P5 break off and form their own organization. Because I think the goal of these noob FBS joiners is to get the shine-ruboff of being associated with the P5. A Northwest Texas Panhandle State that goes FBS does it because its donors and boosters want to be "in the same league" with Alabama, Texas, USC, etc. It makes them feel "big time", a pride thing. So you have to take that away from them.

Two good reasons for the Power Conference schools not to breakaway:

1) They can divide the money and make the rules how they see fit without having to leave the NCAA. G5 schools have little choice but to go along for the ride.

2 Too many potential legal and PR headaches with a breakaway move. Again, better to keep the threat of leaving as a valuable leverage tool

(06-24-2023 11:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Problem is, since the dawn of "autonomy", the P5 have good reasons to like the growth of FBS (more cannon-fodder schools to feast on) and really no reason to oppose them.

The number of non-conference bodybag games in the two revenue sports are likely to decrease, not increase because more conference games will be a direct result of conferences expanding to 20 or more teams.

The media companies and the fans don't like bodybag games (the occasional upset notwithstanding). The inevitable de-emphasis on consolation prizes like bowl games and the NIT will make padding one's W-L record less of an incentive

It will never fly either. The schools who wants to join FBS will take the NCAA and the FBS schools to court by suing for discrimination. It would not look good on them if they deny a school like NC A&T and Tennessee State who wants to be in FBS.

Is it discrimination when one can look at a school "this school probably belongs where it is based on its facilities, enrollment, budget, attendance, geography, etc...."?

If these schools wanted so badly to be FBS then they should be putting in the work to get there. Not just sitting and waiting and hoping to sue their way up.

Anti-trust would not have much basis to fight a reasonable fee raise.

UNLESS it was deemed "excessive" or punitive.

50M?? Yep, excessive.

3.5 to 4 M? Not so much.

Of course--you can ALWAYS sue--no matter what the number. It will probably be compromised down to 3 or 3.5 M anyway

(06-24-2023 01:46 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(06-24-2023 01:44 PM)clunk Wrote:  

(06-24-2023 01:02 PM)Illinoisking91 Wrote:  STUPID. how about they raise it to 50 million so know one else joins

"Let's do this thing to prevent new competition."
Textbook anti-trust violation. Did half this board sleep through high school civics class?

So Mr. Lawyer, explain how $5M isn't anti-competitive but $50M suddenly is? Definitely Bison.

See the bolded part. This isn't complicated.

(06-24-2023 01:46 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(06-24-2023 01:44 PM)clunk Wrote:  

(06-24-2023 01:02 PM)Illinoisking91 Wrote:  STUPID. how about they raise it to 50 million so know one else joins

"Let's do this thing to prevent new competition."
Textbook anti-trust violation. Did half this board sleep through high school civics class?

So Mr. Lawyer, explain how $5M isn't anti-competitive but $50M suddenly is? Definitely Bison.

50m is 10x the amount of 5m. Thats common sense.