(06-17-2023 07:42 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:57 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:11 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Expansion Candidates based on Athletic Budget, Football Stadium, TV Market..... (note MWC Athletic Budget range: $67,422,052 - $39,030,222)

Current MWC Mbr:
SDSU: Athletic Budget: $67,245,917 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 35,000 ~ TV Market: 1,107,010 TV households

Expansion Candidates:
UC Davis: Athletic Budget: $40,909,557 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:15,000 expandable to 30K ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
Texas State: Athletic Budget: $37,853,450 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 30,008 ~ TV Market: 1,059,540 TV households
Sacramento State: Athletic Budget: $35,004,647 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:21,195 ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
UTEP: Athletic Budget: $34,370,528 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:51,500 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NMSU: Athletic Budget: $32,457,148 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:30,343 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NDSU: Athletic Budget: $$28,432,381 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:18,700 ~ TV Market: 265,790 TV households
Montana St: Athletic Budget: $$26,119,361 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:20,767 ~ TV Market: 81,490 TV households
SDSU: Athletic Budget:$$23,399,570 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:19,340 ~ TV Market: 276,580TV households
Montana: Athletic Budget:$22,515,985 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:25,203 ~ TV Market: 130,170 TV households
SHSU: Athletic Budget: $20,951,301 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:14,000 (reallocating over 24 mo to 15,000) ~ TV Market: 2,666,330 TV households

I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

I would think Texas State would have 3.5M reasons to join the MWC if they were invited

MWC: The league has a six-year deal — through the 2025-26 academic year — with CBS and Fox that will pay the league $270 million. CBS is the primary partner. Each of the 12 schools receives about $4 million annually.

Sun Belt: The league announced in July that it had extended its agreement with ESPN through the 2030-31 academic year. Each school is believed to make about $500,000 annually.

Link
https://www.on3.com/news/conference-tv-d...-football/

There IS a gap between the MWC and Sun Belt, but it's closer to a 2M difference, not a 3.5M difference. Still very significant, though that gap could close some depending on how bad losing SDSU hurts the MWC TV deal, if it actually does.

Hey you are correct! Thanks for the correction. I found a link also posted below.

"Sun Belt is expected to get somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 million per year."

Link
https://www.dnronline.com/sports/college...475af.html

(06-18-2023 08:38 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 07:42 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:57 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:11 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Expansion Candidates based on Athletic Budget, Football Stadium, TV Market..... (note MWC Athletic Budget range: $67,422,052 - $39,030,222)

Current MWC Mbr:
SDSU: Athletic Budget: $67,245,917 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 35,000 ~ TV Market: 1,107,010 TV households

Expansion Candidates:
UC Davis: Athletic Budget: $40,909,557 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:15,000 expandable to 30K ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
Texas State: Athletic Budget: $37,853,450 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 30,008 ~ TV Market: 1,059,540 TV households
Sacramento State: Athletic Budget: $35,004,647 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:21,195 ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
UTEP: Athletic Budget: $34,370,528 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:51,500 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NMSU: Athletic Budget: $32,457,148 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:30,343 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NDSU: Athletic Budget: $$28,432,381 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:18,700 ~ TV Market: 265,790 TV households
Montana St: Athletic Budget: $$26,119,361 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:20,767 ~ TV Market: 81,490 TV households
SDSU: Athletic Budget:$$23,399,570 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:19,340 ~ TV Market: 276,580TV households
Montana: Athletic Budget:$22,515,985 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:25,203 ~ TV Market: 130,170 TV households
SHSU: Athletic Budget: $20,951,301 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:14,000 (reallocating over 24 mo to 15,000) ~ TV Market: 2,666,330 TV households

I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

I would think Texas State would have 3.5M reasons to join the MWC if they were invited

MWC: The league has a six-year deal — through the 2025-26 academic year — with CBS and Fox that will pay the league $270 million. CBS is the primary partner. Each of the 12 schools receives about $4 million annually.

Sun Belt: The league announced in July that it had extended its agreement with ESPN through the 2030-31 academic year. Each school is believed to make about $500,000 annually.

Link
https://www.on3.com/news/conference-tv-d...-football/

There IS a gap between the MWC and Sun Belt, but it's closer to a 2M difference, not a 3.5M difference. Still very significant, though that gap could close some depending on how bad losing SDSU hurts the MWC TV deal, if it actually does.

Hey you are correct! Thanks for the correction. I found a link also posted below.

"Sun Belt is expected to get somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 million per year."

Link
https://www.dnronline.com/sports/college...475af.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q8mK8mLcvE

(06-17-2023 09:40 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 07:50 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Losing SDSU significantly impacts the Mountain West media deal. Their media deal has a trigger renegotiation clause if SDSU leaves. Mark Zeigler in his 365 Sports interview confirms it. San Diego is the largest market in that deal.

Also remember, Boise State has that “carve out” where they keep all the money from their own home games and don’t share with the conference.

So the remaining members are in serious trouble if CBS/FOX demand a renegotiation.

Expansion options are very limited for MWC.

Maybe it’s time to merge the MWC and AAC.

(Mark Zeigler’s 365 interview at about 12:30 mark)
https://youtu.be/F0EiTIMRaLQ

(Boise State “carve out” upheld in new media agreement)
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spo...ball-bonus

Quibble: Boise games get sold separately, but Boise doesn't get that money. Boise gets an extra $1.8M, in parallel but separate.

Yep not to mention SDSU is our 3rd or 4th best TV brand. Boise and Fresno both draw more fans and ratings than SDSU.

(06-18-2023 08:53 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 08:38 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 07:42 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:57 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

I would think Texas State would have 3.5M reasons to join the MWC if they were invited

MWC: The league has a six-year deal — through the 2025-26 academic year — with CBS and Fox that will pay the league $270 million. CBS is the primary partner. Each of the 12 schools receives about $4 million annually.

Sun Belt: The league announced in July that it had extended its agreement with ESPN through the 2030-31 academic year. Each school is believed to make about $500,000 annually.

Link
https://www.on3.com/news/conference-tv-d...-football/

There IS a gap between the MWC and Sun Belt, but it's closer to a 2M difference, not a 3.5M difference. Still very significant, though that gap could close some depending on how bad losing SDSU hurts the MWC TV deal, if it actually does.

Hey you are correct! Thanks for the correction. I found a link also posted below.

"Sun Belt is expected to get somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 million per year."

Link
https://www.dnronline.com/sports/college...475af.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q8mK8mLcvE

The Sun Belt made 1.2M before the new media deal was signed, expanding coverage on ESPN family of networks by 40%.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/SB...02/15.aspx

Financial reports from Louisiana (Cajuns) to the state also shows 1.2 million in Media Rights. (see page 15).

https://app.lla.state.la.us/PublicReport...25A3CA.pdf

It's also worth noting that the number JMU gave to the state when they were moving to FBS was 2M. Not sure if that's the exact number today, but it would be higher than CUSA's expected 800K.

It's all peanuts in the long run, because the SBC and CUSA are far behind the MWC (3.5M) and the AAC legacy programs (7M). I won't even mention P5 payouts.

(06-17-2023 10:22 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 10:07 PM)IWantToTalkToRalphSampson Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 07:21 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 09:59 AM)Owls9878 Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 09:44 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  This is the issue the MWC has. The top media market is about to leave. And there are no options for replenishing, therefore their media deal will take a severe hit, AND the teams will have to carve out additional money if they want to add any teams.

What this does is to setup a scenario where CSU and Airforce bolt to the AAC. I'm not sure the AAC would even consider Boise St anymore.

With exit fees, it seems unlikely. If the AAC could lure Army, perhaps AFA might bite.

AFA would be paying a $17M exit fee to go to the AAC?

The merger scenario seems absurd too. A 24 team, 1 bid basketball conference that makes it harder for the best team in either league to get a 12 team CFP autobid? Why bother?

Plus they already tried it, and it didn't work. 13 of today's AAC + MWC members were involved in those discussions (Tulsa, Rice, UAB, Tulane, ECU, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii, UNLV, New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State, Air Force).

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...conference

Notably, Boise State and San Diego State were not a part of those plans, as they already accepted a Big East invite.


As for why it didn't happen? According to Brett McMurphy:

"...if the leagues dissolved or merged, the conference would lose their NCAA tournament units – teams earn about $250,000 for their conference for each round they advance in the NCAA tournament and that money is distributed to the conferences after a rolling six-year period. If the leagues dissolved or merged that money would stay with the individual schools so the leagues would forfeit millions of dollars. Also the schools leaving potentially would not have to pay exit fees to their former league."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-unlikely/

So, it seems the real problem(s) are the NCAA and its' rules.

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:11 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Expansion Candidates based on Athletic Budget, Football Stadium, TV Market..... (note MWC Athletic Budget range: $67,422,052 - $39,030,222)

Current MWC Mbr:
SDSU: Athletic Budget: $67,245,917 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 35,000 ~ TV Market: 1,107,010 TV households

Expansion Candidates:
UC Davis: Athletic Budget: $40,909,557 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:15,000 expandable to 30K ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
Texas State: Athletic Budget: $37,853,450 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 30,008 ~ TV Market: 1,059,540 TV households
Sacramento State: Athletic Budget: $35,004,647 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:21,195 ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
UTEP: Athletic Budget: $34,370,528 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:51,500 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NMSU: Athletic Budget: $32,457,148 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:30,343 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NDSU: Athletic Budget: $$28,432,381 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:18,700 ~ TV Market: 265,790 TV households
Montana St: Athletic Budget: $$26,119,361 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:20,767 ~ TV Market: 81,490 TV households
SDSU: Athletic Budget:$$23,399,570 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:19,340 ~ TV Market: 276,580TV households
Montana: Athletic Budget:$22,515,985 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:25,203 ~ TV Market: 130,170 TV households
SHSU: Athletic Budget: $20,951,301 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:14,000 (reallocating over 24 mo to 15,000) ~ TV Market: 2,666,330 TV households

I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

Ok, that does it. I will go to the trouble of finding a Kahuna that practices the dark arts now that I've seen your preference, and man will you be sorry!

(06-18-2023 04:02 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:11 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Expansion Candidates based on Athletic Budget, Football Stadium, TV Market..... (note MWC Athletic Budget range: $67,422,052 - $39,030,222)

Current MWC Mbr:
SDSU: Athletic Budget: $67,245,917 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 35,000 ~ TV Market: 1,107,010 TV households

Expansion Candidates:
UC Davis: Athletic Budget: $40,909,557 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:15,000 expandable to 30K ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
Texas State: Athletic Budget: $37,853,450 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 30,008 ~ TV Market: 1,059,540 TV households
Sacramento State: Athletic Budget: $35,004,647 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:21,195 ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
UTEP: Athletic Budget: $34,370,528 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:51,500 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NMSU: Athletic Budget: $32,457,148 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:30,343 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NDSU: Athletic Budget: $$28,432,381 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:18,700 ~ TV Market: 265,790 TV households
Montana St: Athletic Budget: $$26,119,361 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:20,767 ~ TV Market: 81,490 TV households
SDSU: Athletic Budget:$$23,399,570 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:19,340 ~ TV Market: 276,580TV households
Montana: Athletic Budget:$22,515,985 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:25,203 ~ TV Market: 130,170 TV households
SHSU: Athletic Budget: $20,951,301 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:14,000 (reallocating over 24 mo to 15,000) ~ TV Market: 2,666,330 TV households

I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

Ok, that does it. I will go to the trouble of finding a Kahuna that practices the dark arts now that I've seen your preference, and man will you be sorry!

LOL. FWIW, if the Pac hangs together and the MWC loses SDSU, my actual preference will be to backfill with Texas State plus UTEP and UT Arlington. If the conference can't land Texas State I'll still be advocating to add UTEP.

(06-18-2023 04:11 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 04:02 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:11 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Expansion Candidates based on Athletic Budget, Football Stadium, TV Market..... (note MWC Athletic Budget range: $67,422,052 - $39,030,222)

Current MWC Mbr:
SDSU: Athletic Budget: $67,245,917 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 35,000 ~ TV Market: 1,107,010 TV households

Expansion Candidates:
UC Davis: Athletic Budget: $40,909,557 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:15,000 expandable to 30K ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
Texas State: Athletic Budget: $37,853,450 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 30,008 ~ TV Market: 1,059,540 TV households
Sacramento State: Athletic Budget: $35,004,647 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:21,195 ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
UTEP: Athletic Budget: $34,370,528 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:51,500 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NMSU: Athletic Budget: $32,457,148 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:30,343 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NDSU: Athletic Budget: $$28,432,381 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:18,700 ~ TV Market: 265,790 TV households
Montana St: Athletic Budget: $$26,119,361 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:20,767 ~ TV Market: 81,490 TV households
SDSU: Athletic Budget:$$23,399,570 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:19,340 ~ TV Market: 276,580TV households
Montana: Athletic Budget:$22,515,985 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:25,203 ~ TV Market: 130,170 TV households
SHSU: Athletic Budget: $20,951,301 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:14,000 (reallocating over 24 mo to 15,000) ~ TV Market: 2,666,330 TV households

I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

Ok, that does it. I will go to the trouble of finding a Kahuna that practices the dark arts now that I've seen your preference, and man will you be sorry!

LOL. FWIW, if the Pac hangs together and the MWC loses SDSU, my actual preference will be to backfill with Texas State plus UTEP and UT Arlington. If the conference can't land Texas State I'll still be advocating to add UTEP.

Well, ok then. Nevermind.

(06-18-2023 04:11 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 04:02 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:11 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Expansion Candidates based on Athletic Budget, Football Stadium, TV Market..... (note MWC Athletic Budget range: $67,422,052 - $39,030,222)

Current MWC Mbr:
SDSU: Athletic Budget: $67,245,917 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 35,000 ~ TV Market: 1,107,010 TV households

Expansion Candidates:
UC Davis: Athletic Budget: $40,909,557 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:15,000 expandable to 30K ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
Texas State: Athletic Budget: $37,853,450 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 30,008 ~ TV Market: 1,059,540 TV households
Sacramento State: Athletic Budget: $35,004,647 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:21,195 ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
UTEP: Athletic Budget: $34,370,528 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:51,500 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NMSU: Athletic Budget: $32,457,148 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:30,343 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NDSU: Athletic Budget: $$28,432,381 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:18,700 ~ TV Market: 265,790 TV households
Montana St: Athletic Budget: $$26,119,361 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:20,767 ~ TV Market: 81,490 TV households
SDSU: Athletic Budget:$$23,399,570 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:19,340 ~ TV Market: 276,580TV households
Montana: Athletic Budget:$22,515,985 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:25,203 ~ TV Market: 130,170 TV households
SHSU: Athletic Budget: $20,951,301 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:14,000 (reallocating over 24 mo to 15,000) ~ TV Market: 2,666,330 TV households

I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

Ok, that does it. I will go to the trouble of finding a Kahuna that practices the dark arts now that I've seen your preference, and man will you be sorry!

LOL. FWIW, if the Pac hangs together and the MWC loses SDSU, my actual preference will be to backfill with Texas State plus UTEP and UT Arlington. If the conference can't land Texas State I'll still be advocating to add UTEP.

My math might be wrong, but if SDSU leaves and those 3 schools join, that puts the MWC at 13/13. I'm assuming 1 more team would need to be added.

(06-17-2023 06:14 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:11 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Expansion Candidates based on Athletic Budget, Football Stadium, TV Market..... (note MWC Athletic Budget range: $67,422,052 - $39,030,222)

Current MWC Mbr:
SDSU: Athletic Budget: $67,245,917 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 35,000 ~ TV Market: 1,107,010 TV households

Expansion Candidates:
UC Davis: Athletic Budget: $40,909,557 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:15,000 expandable to 30K ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
Texas State: Athletic Budget: $37,853,450 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 30,008 ~ TV Market: 1,059,540 TV households
Sacramento State: Athletic Budget: $35,004,647 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:21,195 ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
UTEP: Athletic Budget: $34,370,528 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:51,500 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NMSU: Athletic Budget: $32,457,148 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:30,343 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NDSU: Athletic Budget: $$28,432,381 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:18,700 ~ TV Market: 265,790 TV households
Montana St: Athletic Budget: $$26,119,361 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:20,767 ~ TV Market: 81,490 TV households
SDSU: Athletic Budget:$$23,399,570 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:19,340 ~ TV Market: 276,580TV households
Montana: Athletic Budget:$22,515,985 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:25,203 ~ TV Market: 130,170 TV households
SHSU: Athletic Budget: $20,951,301 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:14,000 (reallocating over 24 mo to 15,000) ~ TV Market: 2,666,330 TV households

I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

They might be in a large market but how popular are they in that market? Texas and A&M own all of Texas. Probably a half dozen or so other schools have a presence in Central Texas.

What’s being left off here is Austin media market. San Marcos is technically more apart of the Austin media market but smack dab in the middle between both SA and Austin. About 15-20 minute drive depending on traffic to Austin City limit sign and about 20-25 minute drive to San Antonio city limit sign.
This area also happens to be our biggest alumni concentration. Something like 120,000-140,000 living alumni in SA and Austin markets.

Edit: also worth noting, that attendance capacity is about to go up, just broke ground on south end zone complex expansion earlier this month. Mostly player support but will have additional donor level, party deck type style. Original Stadium Master plan that came out when we announced moving up to FBS showed something around 45-50K so we can get there. Just not warranted at the moment

(06-17-2023 06:23 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 06:20 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 06:14 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:11 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Expansion Candidates based on Athletic Budget, Football Stadium, TV Market..... (note MWC Athletic Budget range: $67,422,052 - $39,030,222)

Current MWC Mbr:
SDSU: Athletic Budget: $67,245,917 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 35,000 ~ TV Market: 1,107,010 TV households

Expansion Candidates:
UC Davis: Athletic Budget: $40,909,557 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:15,000 expandable to 30K ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
Texas State: Athletic Budget: $37,853,450 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 30,008 ~ TV Market: 1,059,540 TV households
Sacramento State: Athletic Budget: $35,004,647 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:21,195 ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
UTEP: Athletic Budget: $34,370,528 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:51,500 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NMSU: Athletic Budget: $32,457,148 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:30,343 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NDSU: Athletic Budget: $$28,432,381 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:18,700 ~ TV Market: 265,790 TV households
Montana St: Athletic Budget: $$26,119,361 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:20,767 ~ TV Market: 81,490 TV households
SDSU: Athletic Budget:$$23,399,570 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:19,340 ~ TV Market: 276,580TV households
Montana: Athletic Budget:$22,515,985 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:25,203 ~ TV Market: 130,170 TV households
SHSU: Athletic Budget: $20,951,301 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:14,000 (reallocating over 24 mo to 15,000) ~ TV Market: 2,666,330 TV households

I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

They might be in a large market but how popular are they in that market? Texas and A&M own all of Texas. Probably a half dozen or so other schools have a presence in Central Texas.

Same can be said of SDSU as USC & UCLA own Southern Cali. But SDSU gets credit for the Media Market. Also explains why PAC12 gets paid More than MWC.

Theres no such thing as a Southern California market. San Diego and LA are distinct markets and MSA.

I laugh every time I see these suggestions.

The vast majority of people in LA have literally never been to San Diego. It's like a 2-3 hour drive depending on traffic LA has everything San Diego has to offer.

(06-17-2023 07:46 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 07:21 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 09:59 AM)Owls9878 Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 09:44 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  This is the issue the MWC has. The top media market is about to leave. And there are no options for replenishing, therefore their media deal will take a severe hit, AND the teams will have to carve out additional money if they want to add any teams.

What this does is to setup a scenario where CSU and Airforce bolt to the AAC. I'm not sure the AAC would even consider Boise St anymore.

With exit fees, it seems unlikely. If the AAC could lure Army, perhaps AFA might bite.

AFA would be paying a $17M exit fee to go to the AAC?

Compared to what? How much do they get in the MWC WITHOUT the top demographic draw.

Keep in mind the media partner was already maxed out paying for the MWC, which is why the media partner would not agree to a single dime more for the MWC adding any teams last year. Losing SDSU is going to sting, because there is no demographic that the MWC could add that would equate to a SDSU.

So they may be looking at a cut per team. And once that happens, there may no longer be a $17million exit fee, because AFA has seen its revenue cut.

Thats the danger the MWC is in. In order to keep CSU and AFA, they may have to pay them more in order to ensure their revenue doesnt get cut, or else they are looking at a renegotiated exit fee.

San Diego is a decent market but the Tecs are maybe 4th in draw. Boise, Fresno and possibly AF are all better football draws.

(06-18-2023 07:03 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 06:23 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 06:20 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 06:14 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

They might be in a large market but how popular are they in that market? Texas and A&M own all of Texas. Probably a half dozen or so other schools have a presence in Central Texas.

Same can be said of SDSU as USC & UCLA own Southern Cali. But SDSU gets credit for the Media Market. Also explains why PAC12 gets paid More than MWC.

Theres no such thing as a Southern California market. San Diego and LA are distinct markets and MSA.

I laugh every time I see these suggestions.

The vast majority of people in LA have literally never been to San Diego. It's like a 2-3 hour drive depending on traffic LA has everything San Diego has to offer.

This ^. South Orange County and San Fernando Valley are worlds apart due to traffic.

(06-18-2023 07:03 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 06:23 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 06:20 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 06:14 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

They might be in a large market but how popular are they in that market? Texas and A&M own all of Texas. Probably a half dozen or so other schools have a presence in Central Texas.

Same can be said of SDSU as USC & UCLA own Southern Cali. But SDSU gets credit for the Media Market. Also explains why PAC12 gets paid More than MWC.

Theres no such thing as a Southern California market. San Diego and LA are distinct markets and MSA.

I laugh every time I see these suggestions.

The vast majority of people in LA have literally never been to San Diego. It's like a 2-3 hour drive depending on traffic LA has everything San Diego has to offer.

Yep, more traffic, more crime, more drugs, more smog, y'all got that. You do have refineries nearby, we lack them down here. You cannot even live near the beaches up there, such as Venice, because the homelessness, drugs and crime are so bad. By the way, many people from LA come to San Diego. Just a nicer place to live and a higher quality of life than you get in LA. You can get up to Orange County from San Diego rather quickly, about an hour or so, but once there the freeways are a parking lot going north. I used to have to commute to the FAA offices in Santa Monica for meetings and it took me as long to go the last 10-15 miles as the 100 or so before. Can't understand why anyone would want to live in that cesspool. Even if you live in a nice area, drive two miles and you're in a crappy area. We here in San Diego thank God for Camp Pendleton for it being a buffer from those communities up north.

As someone who goes to Orange County at least a couple times a year, I've found flying into San Diego to be the best least expensive option from the Boston area. LA might be slightly cheaper overall for the flight, but hopping on the train from San Diego is a lot less of an ordeal than commuting from LA south...plus Old Town has delicious tacos and margaritas and it's right next to the train station.

This might not have much to do with sport though. But I suppose if you fly into San Diego to check out a game you now have an itinerary that can start pretty quickly with tacos and margaritas.

(06-18-2023 06:03 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 04:11 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 04:02 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:11 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Expansion Candidates based on Athletic Budget, Football Stadium, TV Market..... (note MWC Athletic Budget range: $67,422,052 - $39,030,222)

Current MWC Mbr:
SDSU: Athletic Budget: $67,245,917 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 35,000 ~ TV Market: 1,107,010 TV households

Expansion Candidates:
UC Davis: Athletic Budget: $40,909,557 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:15,000 expandable to 30K ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
Texas State: Athletic Budget: $37,853,450 ~ Football Stadium Capacity: 30,008 ~ TV Market: 1,059,540 TV households
Sacramento State: Athletic Budget: $35,004,647 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:21,195 ~ TV Market: 1,502,080 TV households
UTEP: Athletic Budget: $34,370,528 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:51,500 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NMSU: Athletic Budget: $32,457,148 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:30,343 ~ TV Market: 371,730 TV households
NDSU: Athletic Budget: $$28,432,381 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:18,700 ~ TV Market: 265,790 TV households
Montana St: Athletic Budget: $$26,119,361 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:20,767 ~ TV Market: 81,490 TV households
SDSU: Athletic Budget:$$23,399,570 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:19,340 ~ TV Market: 276,580TV households
Montana: Athletic Budget:$22,515,985 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:25,203 ~ TV Market: 130,170 TV households
SHSU: Athletic Budget: $20,951,301 ~ Football Stadium Capacity:14,000 (reallocating over 24 mo to 15,000) ~ TV Market: 2,666,330 TV households

I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

Ok, that does it. I will go to the trouble of finding a Kahuna that practices the dark arts now that I've seen your preference, and man will you be sorry!

LOL. FWIW, if the Pac hangs together and the MWC loses SDSU, my actual preference will be to backfill with Texas State plus UTEP and UT Arlington. If the conference can't land Texas State I'll still be advocating to add UTEP.

My math might be wrong, but if SDSU leaves and those 3 schools join, that puts the MWC at 13/13. I'm assuming 1 more team would need to be added.

Your math is right, and I don’t think it’s a concern. So long as the conference continues to play eight football games it shouldn’t be an issue for football scheduling, and in basketball any expansion beyond eleven already rules out a full round-robin home-and-home schedule.

My rationale for backfilling with more than one replacement school is that if the MWC is going to make a move into Texas, it should make a statement by adding multiple new members there. Texas State and UTEP are the most viable football options, as none of the AAC schools will defect and Sam Houston State is just getting its transition to FBS underway. UTA gives the conference a DFW presence and good travel partner for Texas State at low cost (likely no more than a 30% of a full membership distribution), and if the Mavericks ever choose to restart football that will give the conference a 14th football member.

(06-18-2023 11:14 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 06:03 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 04:11 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 04:02 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 05:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I think Texas State is the MWC's best expansion option if it can be lured away from the Sun Belt. Huge enrollment, growing market, suitable budget, great facilities. The school just broke ground on a new $37 million south end zone football performance facility that will essentially complete the Bobcat Stadium upgrades that began 15 years ago. Moreover in 2018 it completed a $60 million renovation and expansion of its now 10,000-seat basketball arena.

Personally I'd look forward to a road trip to San Marcos to see Hawaii play there.

Ok, that does it. I will go to the trouble of finding a Kahuna that practices the dark arts now that I've seen your preference, and man will you be sorry!

LOL. FWIW, if the Pac hangs together and the MWC loses SDSU, my actual preference will be to backfill with Texas State plus UTEP and UT Arlington. If the conference can't land Texas State I'll still be advocating to add UTEP.

My math might be wrong, but if SDSU leaves and those 3 schools join, that puts the MWC at 13/13. I'm assuming 1 more team would need to be added.

Your math is right, and I don’t think it’s a concern. So long as the conference continues to play eight football games it shouldn’t be an issue for football scheduling, and in basketball any expansion beyond eleven already rules out a full round-robin home-and-home schedule.

My rationale for backfilling with more than one replacement school is that if the MWC is going to make a move into Texas, it should make a statement by adding multiple new members there. Texas State and UTEP are the most viable football options, as none of the AAC schools will defect and Sam Houston State is just getting its transition to FBS underway. UTA gives the conference a DFW presence and good travel partner for Texas State at low cost (likely no more than a 30% of a full membership distribution), and if the Mavericks ever choose to restart football that will give the conference a 14th football member.

Absolutely. The MWC shouldn’t just dip it’s toe into Texas. I’m not crazy about Texas St but I get it. Of all the non-power Texas schools, Texas St falls to somewhere between 4th and 5th on my list depending on Rice:
1. SMU
2. UTSA
3. North Texas
4. Rice
5. Texas St
6. UTEP
7. Sam Houston St

Obviously, I think, the play is AAC schools but there is not a great chance to pick them up. Assuming SMU is gone with San Diego St, I’d do as little as 1 add (UTSA) to as many as 5 adds from Navy/Wichita St, North Texas, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, UTSA.

If AAC really aren’t options, then I guess I’d go with Texas St or UTEP if just 1 add. I like UTEP for historical reasons - good fit with old WAC schools. Texas St is fine though. If we do go into Texas, I’d prefer 3 new adds minimum. Without AAC schools and presuming Texas St would be the only SBC add, I wouldn’t hate Texas St and UTEP along with Louisiana Tech. I’m not crazy about New Mexico St. Throw in UT Arlington.

Mountain: Air Force, Colorado St, Louisiana Tech, New Mexico, Texas St, UTEP, Wyoming
West: Boise St, Fresno St, Hawaii*, Nevada, San Jose St, UNLV, Utah St
* Football-Only
^ Non-Football: UT Arlington
# Baseball-Only: Dallas Baptist

(06-19-2023 01:05 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 11:14 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 06:03 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 04:11 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 04:02 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  Ok, that does it. I will go to the trouble of finding a Kahuna that practices the dark arts now that I've seen your preference, and man will you be sorry!

LOL. FWIW, if the Pac hangs together and the MWC loses SDSU, my actual preference will be to backfill with Texas State plus UTEP and UT Arlington. If the conference can't land Texas State I'll still be advocating to add UTEP.

My math might be wrong, but if SDSU leaves and those 3 schools join, that puts the MWC at 13/13. I'm assuming 1 more team would need to be added.

Your math is right, and I don’t think it’s a concern. So long as the conference continues to play eight football games it shouldn’t be an issue for football scheduling, and in basketball any expansion beyond eleven already rules out a full round-robin home-and-home schedule.

My rationale for backfilling with more than one replacement school is that if the MWC is going to make a move into Texas, it should make a statement by adding multiple new members there. Texas State and UTEP are the most viable football options, as none of the AAC schools will defect and Sam Houston State is just getting its transition to FBS underway. UTA gives the conference a DFW presence and good travel partner for Texas State at low cost (likely no more than a 30% of a full membership distribution), and if the Mavericks ever choose to restart football that will give the conference a 14th football member.

Absolutely. The MWC shouldn’t just dip it’s toe into Texas. I’m not crazy about Texas St but I get it. Of all the non-power Texas schools, Texas St falls to somewhere between 4th and 5th on my list depending on Rice:
1. SMU
2. UTSA
3. North Texas
4. Rice
5. Texas St
6. UTEP
7. Sam Houston St

Obviously, I think, the play is AAC schools but there is not a great chance to pick them up. Assuming SMU is gone with San Diego St, I’d do as little as 1 add (UTSA) to as many as 5 adds from Navy/Wichita St, North Texas, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, UTSA.

If AAC really aren’t options, then I guess I’d go with Texas St or UTEP if just 1 add. I like UTEP for historical reasons - good fit with old WAC schools. Texas St is fine though. If we do go into Texas, I’d prefer 3 new adds minimum. Without AAC schools and presuming Texas St would be the only SBC add, I wouldn’t hate Texas St and UTEP along with Louisiana Tech. I’m not crazy about New Mexico St. Throw in UT Arlington.

Mountain: Air Force, Colorado St, Louisiana Tech, New Mexico, Texas St, UTEP, Wyoming
West: Boise St, Fresno St, Hawaii*, Nevada, San Jose St, UNLV, Utah St
* Football-Only
^ Non-Football: UT Arlington
# Baseball-Only: Dallas Baptist

If SDSU and SMU are gone, then the AAC is going to be in replacement mode as well. So we need to ask ourselves, "which school is ESPN going to target?" and "where does Texas State feel they fit best for their future?"

For instance, ESPN might value Texas State and initiate a move to the AAC to develop division rivalries with UTSA and UNT. If they value Texas State, they are not going to just let them go to the MWC. Texas State might prefer being the lone Texas school in the Sun Belt, I honestly have no clue.


I'm going to take a play out of David State's performance based playbook and say the most groundbreaking move the MWC could make is inviting North Dakota State based on the fact we know they will use every resource to be successful. Would this be for football-only is my question. Regardless, I would supplement them with a non-football school in SoCal (hint, LBSU) in order to keep a flag there.

I believe the MWC's options are going to be limited to C-USA or FCS schools.

(06-17-2023 07:50 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Losing SDSU significantly impacts the Mountain West media deal. Their media deal has a trigger renegotiation clause if SDSU leaves. Mark Zeigler in his 365 Sports interview confirms it. San Diego is the largest market in that deal.

Also remember, Boise State has that “carve out” where they keep all the money from their own home games and don’t share with the conference.

So the remaining members are in serious trouble if CBS/FOX demand a renegotiation.

Expansion options are very limited for MWC.

Maybe it’s time to merge the MWC and AAC.

(Mark Zeigler’s 365 interview at about 12:30 mark)
https://youtu.be/F0EiTIMRaLQ

(Boise State “carve out” upheld in new media agreement)
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spo...ball-bonus

If SDSU leaves and SMU doesn't get an invite, I think the AAC stands pat. Anybody negotiating in this climate (especially vs 2021 like the AAC/SBC/B12 did) is going to look at reduced valuation.

If SMU+SDSU leave you could look at a merger- but ESPN is the only partner with enough time slots to handle a 24? team conference, and I seriously doubt the economics are going to work. Even if you split rights with Fox/ESPN, losing an autobid probably hurts more.

Either way, a very bad time for the MWC to have to open up their tv contract.

AAC schools aren't paying $18 million to be in the MWC. That notion can be put to rest.