(03-23-2023 03:18 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  Why does this sound like:

"Hey Pac, if you're looking for an extra 4M per school, BYU might be available - How much do you value media money over your professed values?"

: )

BYU has already signed the big 12 GoR according to Yormark, so that sort of speculation is moot. But, even if it were a possibility for the current cycle, how much of a GoR and exit fees would they demand from the entire Pac to join? 25 years GoR and 5 years' exit fees? Unless and until the Pac achieves stability, they're going to be vulnerable to poaching.

(03-23-2023 01:33 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  So what they're saying is that BYU - by itself - brought in an extra $4M per team for a 12-team league. In other words, BYU is worth $4M X 12 = $48M/year. Yet, because the folks in Provo are so loving and humble and willing to share, they signed a deal for just $31.6M for themselves so that their conference mates could all get a nice boost. How generous! Truly and unbelievable story...

12 x 32 = 384
11 x 28 = 308

By that math, BYU would have to be valued at $76 million playing in the Big 12 while all other members were valued at an average of $28 million. Even if they added only $2 million per team, BYU would have to be valued at $56 million, or twice the average of the rest of the league.

That's a stretch.

I love being in a conference with BYU. I would choose them over any PAC 12 leftover any day.

I thought the $4M difference sounded high when I heard that so nice to see some math behind it. But I think I heard it said back then that of the schools being considered for Big 12 expansion, BYU was the one that added value.

Back in 2015 the conferences on the table for BYU was the AAC or returning to the MWC. I could see them adding that kind of value to those 2 conferences but not to the B12 or Pac.

Don’t tell David, but the calculation was based on value over replacement and Boise was worth -$48M.

TV companies aren't paying big money for a high quantity of mediocre games. They are paying big money for games that draw large eyeballs. That requires not just big teams but big matchups. If you look at the top tier teams in the Big 12 and which ones bring the value - BYU could reasonably be included in the top portion of teams that will draw eyeballs and viewers. Adding BYU increases the likelihood that the top game in an average week for the Big 12 will be one that draws big eyeballs. That top game will not always involve BYU, but in the world of minimizing risk and ensuring that the networks don't end up with a "dud" for their Tier 1 game from the Big 12, having more teams like BYU that have a consistent viewership will be added value!

(03-23-2023 05:20 PM)bearcat1970 Wrote:  I love being in a conference with BYU. I would choose them over any PAC 12 leftover any day.

Geographically, sure. No offense to BYU, I have a ton of respect for them, but UW and UO are clearly superior Brands.

(03-23-2023 08:57 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  TV companies aren't paying big money for a high quantity of mediocre games. They are paying big money for games that draw large eyeballs. That requires not just big teams but big matchups. If you look at the top tier teams in the Big 12 and which ones bring the value - BYU could reasonably be included in the top portion of teams that will draw eyeballs and viewers. Adding BYU increases the likelihood that the top game in an average week for the Big 12 will be one that draws big eyeballs. That top game will not always involve BYU, but in the world of minimizing risk and ensuring that the networks don't end up with a "dud" for their Tier 1 game from the Big 12, having more teams like BYU that have a consistent viewership will be added value!

The big 12 is remarkable competitive from top to bottom, I'd say that as long as they have some top 10 matchups and some threats for the CFP then they're good. Once the CFP goes to 12 teams, as long as they're getting 2 or more into the CFP then that's a win.

So BYU was worth the 31.7 mil it got plus 4 mil times 11 more schools. 44 plu 31.7 million = 75.7 million. Guess they should be in the Big 10.

(03-23-2023 05:20 PM)bearcat1970 Wrote:  I love being in a conference with BYU. I would choose them over any PAC 12 leftover any day.

Good thing.

(03-23-2023 12:28 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:51 AM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:40 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I don't know how credible this claim is, but I'll put it here for you to speculate. This story is by Dick Harmon of the Deseret News in Utah.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/experts-pac-1...37304.html

Quote:Experts say Pac-12 really could have used BYU when it comes to media rights negotiations

Jim Williams, a writer for Forbes and former employee at ESPN, told 356 Sports in Texas this week a remarkable money figure associated with the Big 12 when former commissioner Bob Bowlsby spearheaded the addition of BYU, Houston, Cincinnati and Central Florida.

Williams was asked what stood out about what the Big 12 did with expansion and what tactics stood out to get a $31.6 million per team payout with an early negotiation.

“First off, we have the credibility for going out and expanding,” said Williams.

“And I don’t think he (Bowlsby) gets enough credit for that one. The money shot was BYU. And the reason the money shot was BYU is back in 2010 when the shift came, and again in 2015 and when we started getting people in, I had been involved in some of that in both times. ESPN was telling me, you know how much BYU is worth? BYU is probably the difference between $27-28 million and $31.6 million (per team, per year) in that contract.

It was a figure based on a conversation he had with a former ESPN executive when BYU was still an Independent.

That's an odd walkback from his quote in the article.

His quote in the article is very explicit: "BYU is probably the difference between $27-28 million and $31.6 million (per team, per year) in that contract."

Eh... He was giving his opinion, which was based on a cocktail conversation he had. I actually think the numbers he was given were accurate, but he misinterpreted it.

If the range is $2-4m, then the $2m would be the increase per team in either the Pac/B12, the two Power Conferences that would potentially invite/ have been linked to BYU. Those conferences would be the only feasible invites BYU would receive, especially at the time Williams was given the news. [SEC/B1G would not bat an eye at BYU, and ACC has never been linked to them (and too far away to be considered ad hoc).]

The $4m would have been to a G-Conference, where BYU would provide the most value.

This article has BYU ranked as the #39 most valuable school in the NCAA:

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach...e840f42189

(03-23-2023 02:07 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  BYU is a pretty big brand, you could argue that it'll be the biggest overall brand in the new Big 12.The $4 million number is probably not an entirely accurate number, as we've already clarified, but I do think BYU is a net positive in a media deal.

In football, of the non Texas/Oklahoma Big 12 members, Iowa State had the highest attendance at 57.3k. BYU's was 59.6k (https://www.d1ticker.com/2022-fbs-attendance-trends/)

In men's bball, Kansas averaged 16.2k, Texas Tech averaged 13.9k. BYU would've been 3rd in the conference, at 13.8k, the 16th highest in the country (https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2013/11/27/n...dance.aspx)

BYU finished the fall season 3rd in the Learfield Cup Standings (https://nacda.com/documents/2023/1/13/Ja...Update.pdf)

Damning the Big XII with faint praise. Attendance is largely irrelevant, and at a minimum TCU, Baylor, Houston, Cincy, OK State, K-State, and KU have better FB and MBB, the only sports that matter. BYU will be a good conference member but by moving up to a Mid-3 league they’ll be a perennial also-ran where it counts.

(03-23-2023 10:30 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  This article has BYU ranked as the #39 most valuable school in the NCAA:

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach...e840f42189

I commend him for his work, but I wasn't much of a fan of his formula since he included outdated data.

(03-23-2023 10:30 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 12:28 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:51 AM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:40 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I don't know how credible this claim is, but I'll put it here for you to speculate. This story is by Dick Harmon of the Deseret News in Utah.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/experts-pac-1...37304.html

Quote:Experts say Pac-12 really could have used BYU when it comes to media rights negotiations

Jim Williams, a writer for Forbes and former employee at ESPN, told 356 Sports in Texas this week a remarkable money figure associated with the Big 12 when former commissioner Bob Bowlsby spearheaded the addition of BYU, Houston, Cincinnati and Central Florida.

Williams was asked what stood out about what the Big 12 did with expansion and what tactics stood out to get a $31.6 million per team payout with an early negotiation.

“First off, we have the credibility for going out and expanding,” said Williams.

“And I don’t think he (Bowlsby) gets enough credit for that one. The money shot was BYU. And the reason the money shot was BYU is back in 2010 when the shift came, and again in 2015 and when we started getting people in, I had been involved in some of that in both times. ESPN was telling me, you know how much BYU is worth? BYU is probably the difference between $27-28 million and $31.6 million (per team, per year) in that contract.

It was a figure based on a conversation he had with a former ESPN executive when BYU was still an Independent.

That's an odd walkback from his quote in the article.

His quote in the article is very explicit: "BYU is probably the difference between $27-28 million and $31.6 million (per team, per year) in that contract."

Eh... He was giving his opinion, which was based on a cocktail conversation he had. I actually think the numbers he was given were accurate, but he misinterpreted it.

If the range is $2-4m, then the $2m would be the increase per team in either the Pac/B12, the two Power Conferences that would potentially invite/ have been linked to BYU. Those conferences would be the only feasible invites BYU would receive, especially at the time Williams was given the news. [SEC/B1G would not bat an eye at BYU, and ACC has never been linked to them (and too far away to be considered ad hoc).]

The $4m would have been to a G-Conference, where BYU would provide the most value.

This article has BYU ranked as the #39 most valuable school in the NCAA:

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach...e840f42189

New Big12 (Ranking the most valuable college football programs, 2022)
Shows BYU was the most valuable Brand added to the Big12 out of the four adds!

29. West Virginia
31. Oklahoma State
33. Texas Tech
36. TCU
42. BYU
43. Iowa State
49. Kansas ST
50. Baylor
59. Kansas
62. UCF
65. Houston
68. Cincinnati

Link
https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach...8f7faf3b49

(03-24-2023 07:44 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:30 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 12:28 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:51 AM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:40 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I don't know how credible this claim is, but I'll put it here for you to speculate. This story is by Dick Harmon of the Deseret News in Utah.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/experts-pac-1...37304.html

It was a figure based on a conversation he had with a former ESPN executive when BYU was still an Independent.

That's an odd walkback from his quote in the article.

His quote in the article is very explicit: "BYU is probably the difference between $27-28 million and $31.6 million (per team, per year) in that contract."

Eh... He was giving his opinion, which was based on a cocktail conversation he had. I actually think the numbers he was given were accurate, but he misinterpreted it.

If the range is $2-4m, then the $2m would be the increase per team in either the Pac/B12, the two Power Conferences that would potentially invite/ have been linked to BYU. Those conferences would be the only feasible invites BYU would receive, especially at the time Williams was given the news. [SEC/B1G would not bat an eye at BYU, and ACC has never been linked to them (and too far away to be considered ad hoc).]

The $4m would have been to a G-Conference, where BYU would provide the most value.

This article has BYU ranked as the #39 most valuable school in the NCAA:

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach...e840f42189

New Big12 (Ranking the most valuable college football programs, 2022)
Shows BYU was the most valuable Brand added to the Big12 out of the four adds!

29. West Virginia
31. Oklahoma State
33. Texas Tech
36. TCU
42. BYU
43. Iowa State
49. Kansas ST
50. Baylor
59. Kansas
62. UCF
65. Houston
68. Cincinnati

Link
https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach...8f7faf3b49

According to his math? Boise State is number 63 as the most valuable brand. But with their ratings? They were still better than several P5 schools and schools like UCF, Houston, SMU and San Diego State. SMU and SDSU are in their 80s.

(03-23-2023 10:30 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

Quote:...ESPN was telling me, you know how much BYU is worth? BYU is probably the difference between $27-28 million and $31.6 million (per team, per year) in that contract.

...He was giving his opinion, which was based on a cocktail conversation he had...

Just how many cocktails had he had?

(03-24-2023 07:44 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:30 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 12:28 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:51 AM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:40 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I don't know how credible this claim is, but I'll put it here for you to speculate. This story is by Dick Harmon of the Deseret News in Utah.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/experts-pac-1...37304.html

It was a figure based on a conversation he had with a former ESPN executive when BYU was still an Independent.

That's an odd walkback from his quote in the article.

His quote in the article is very explicit: "BYU is probably the difference between $27-28 million and $31.6 million (per team, per year) in that contract."

Eh... He was giving his opinion, which was based on a cocktail conversation he had. I actually think the numbers he was given were accurate, but he misinterpreted it.

If the range is $2-4m, then the $2m would be the increase per team in either the Pac/B12, the two Power Conferences that would potentially invite/ have been linked to BYU. Those conferences would be the only feasible invites BYU would receive, especially at the time Williams was given the news. [SEC/B1G would not bat an eye at BYU, and ACC has never been linked to them (and too far away to be considered ad hoc).]

The $4m would have been to a G-Conference, where BYU would provide the most value.

This article has BYU ranked as the #39 most valuable school in the NCAA:

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach...e840f42189

New Big12 (Ranking the most valuable college football programs, 2022)
Shows BYU was the most valuable Brand added to the Big12 out of the four adds!

29. West Virginia
31. Oklahoma State
33. Texas Tech
35. ASU
36. TCU
37. Utah
42. BYU
43. Iowa State
49. Kansas ST
50. Baylor
52. Arizona
55. Colorado
59. Kansas
62. UCF
65. Houston
68. Cincinnati

Link
https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach...8f7faf3b49

If one believes this guy, one would question who would benefit more from the BigXII taking CU and AZ- the BigXII or the PAC?

(03-24-2023 11:32 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(03-24-2023 07:44 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:30 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 12:28 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:51 AM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  It was a figure based on a conversation he had with a former ESPN executive when BYU was still an Independent.

That's an odd walkback from his quote in the article.

His quote in the article is very explicit: "BYU is probably the difference between $27-28 million and $31.6 million (per team, per year) in that contract."

Eh... He was giving his opinion, which was based on a cocktail conversation he had. I actually think the numbers he was given were accurate, but he misinterpreted it.

If the range is $2-4m, then the $2m would be the increase per team in either the Pac/B12, the two Power Conferences that would potentially invite/ have been linked to BYU. Those conferences would be the only feasible invites BYU would receive, especially at the time Williams was given the news. [SEC/B1G would not bat an eye at BYU, and ACC has never been linked to them (and too far away to be considered ad hoc).]

The $4m would have been to a G-Conference, where BYU would provide the most value.

This article has BYU ranked as the #39 most valuable school in the NCAA:

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach...e840f42189

New Big12 (Ranking the most valuable college football programs, 2022)
Shows BYU was the most valuable Brand added to the Big12 out of the four adds!

29. West Virginia
31. Oklahoma State
33. Texas Tech
35. ASU
36. TCU
37. Utah
42. BYU
43. Iowa State
49. Kansas ST
50. Baylor
52. Arizona
55. Colorado
59. Kansas
62. UCF
65. Houston
68. Cincinnati

Link
https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach...8f7faf3b49

If one believes this guy, one would question who would benefit more from the BigXII taking CU and AZ- the BigXII or the PAC?

Interesting point. Colorado and Arizona to the Big 12 has the similar feature as the SMU to the PAC 12 move - the biggest benefit is the time zone and ability to reach new TV windows and markets.

I don't know if BYU bumped media deal up 4M apiece.
What BYU does bring travelling fan base that will help with atten, maybe fill some NFL stadiums.
BYU also gets B-12 in 4th timeslot, also help attract Pac schools to B-12.
They have no trouble attracting marque matchups non-conf.
BYU has fan base in every mountain & Paclfic state