[/quote]

If I’m running the Big 12, that’s essentially the approach that needs to be taken: no strings attached to any Pac-12 schools. If some schools get an invite to the Big Ten the next day, then no hard feelings or exit fees. That’s fine in the long run because the Big 12 would still be in a better position having added other Pac-12 schools. Offering a little more money than the Pac-12 isn’t really doing anything here. The Big 12 needs to offer a lot flexibility if wants movement.

However, as I’ve noted elsewhere, I think a lot of fans aren’t comprehending that Washington is every bit as academically elitist as Stanford and Cal and that’s a driving factor here. Oregon may not be as hung up on it, but Washington is more like Michigan than it is like Ohio State on this front. It truly needs to be horrific tire fire of a Pac-12 TV contract for Washington to even consider moving anywhere besides the Big Ten.
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Not a bad idea but it simply won't happen. The remaining B12 schools will not allow a member to join unless it's at a full member and equal to all. They've experienced what it's like to have a member or members use leverage to dictate outcomes. (UT).

Taking it one step further, to me UO and UW don't have the cache to demand special treatment from anyone else. It's pretty simple, stay in the PAC or go to another conference. I'm sure the B12 would love to have you, but they don't need you.

Regarding academics, completely understand that to the Presidents/Chancellors that academics plays a large role in realignment. I'd argue though that the landscape of major collegiate athletics has shifted materially since NIL and record smashing media deals for the SEC/BIG, and that school presidents need to recognize how this impacts their conference athletic/academic affiliation.

(03-03-2023 01:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:15 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 12:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:11 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I really wonder if Yormark doesn't make the Hail Mary move for Washington and Oregon.

Smoke signals that the Four Corners are thinking about defecting has to raise concerns at UW and UO and Nike HQ, don't they?

Thats why I keep saying I'd unclog the log jam by giving Oregon and Washington what they want---a Big12 GOR membership with an opt out clause if the B10 calls. If Im Yormark---and my goal is the 4-corners---why do I care if I take a package of 6 Pac12 teams (including the 4-corners) knowing that Oregon and Washington are rentals? Best case---the Big10 never calls and the Big12 gets the current king pins of the Pac12 as long term members---or worst case---you lose the Oregon/Washington pair to the B10 and end up with the 4-corners you were always targeting. I just dont see the down side.

If I’m running the Big 12, that’s essentially the approach that needs to be taken: no strings attached to any Pac-12 schools. If some schools get an invite to the Big Ten the next day, then no hard feelings or exit fees. That’s fine in the long run because the Big 12 would still be in a better position having added other Pac-12 schools. Offering a little more money than the Pac-12 isn’t really doing anything here. The Big 12 needs to offer a lot flexibility if wants movement.

However, as I’ve noted elsewhere, I think a lot of fans aren’t comprehending that Washington is every bit as academically elitist as Stanford and Cal and that’s a driving factor here. Oregon may not be as hung up on it, but Washington is more like Michigan than it is like Ohio State on this front. It truly needs to be horrific tire fire of a Pac-12 TV contract for Washington to even consider moving anywhere besides the Big Ten.

The Big 12 should have as P2 friendly GOR as networks allow, for all schools.

That should help consolidate the top brands outside the P2, which then means a GOR isn’t really needed.

UW and Stanford have been the most quiet for a reason Imo. Warren’s continual flaming of future moves always screamed as a ploy to make UW and Stanford without a conference.

The BIG isn’t dependent on anyone in realignment, but the human element can’t be ignored. It is an easier sell to BIG Presidents to take Stanford and UW, perhaps on partial shares, despite not being accretive otherwise, if those schools aren’t in the historical partner conference of BIG.

I don't think the issue is the Big 12 as much as it is ESPN not wanting to provide easy exits to the B1G and potentially impacting their slate of games. The Big 12 schools would probably be happy to rent Washington and Oregon for a few years if it meant increasing revenue distributions. Why would ESPN want to pay pro rata or more just to watch Washington and Oregon leave for the majority of FOX-owned B1G halfway through the TV contract?

If Washington/Oregon were to join the Big 12, I think it is more likely they sign the GOR and announce intentions to leave a year or two before the GOR expires and reach a quick settlement if the B1G wanted them in their next TV contract. The Big 12 is more than happy to work with the networks to broker an exit, Texas and Oklahoma only paid $50M each to leave early with $20M total going to FOX.

The B1G TV contract expires in 2030 and the Big 12 contract/GOR expires in 2031. That's only a one-year difference. I could see a similar settlement as OU/UT in 2030 with a similar exit fee and $XXM going to ESPN for lost content. That's a fast ROI with the revenue increase both schools would see joining the B1G.

The point is if the B1G doesn't add Oregon and Washington now, they will have plenty of opportunities to do so in the near future. Signing a Big 12 GOR doesn't change that.

(03-03-2023 01:32 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I tend to agree. This could open the door for the Big East to add Gonzaga.

That door has been open since December of 2012.

(03-03-2023 11:11 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I really wonder if Yormark doesn't make the Hail Mary move for Washington and Oregon.

Smoke signals that the Four Corners are thinking about defecting has to raise concerns at UW and UO and Nike HQ, don't they?

I really can’t imagine Oregon and UW staying in a PAC 12 minus the Four Corners. They’ll either get an invite to the Big Ten (and for all we know the Four Corners could be leaving because they have imminent Big 10 invites) or will go with the Four Corners to the Big 12.

As a utep fan, I am hoping the MWC gets raided from all this to the point where the MWC has no choice but to invite utep to survive.

I don't want to see bothor either western based conferences disappear or god forbid, merge. I would love to see the WAC move up to FBS as well.

(03-03-2023 01:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:15 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 12:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:11 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I really wonder if Yormark doesn't make the Hail Mary move for Washington and Oregon.

Smoke signals that the Four Corners are thinking about defecting has to raise concerns at UW and UO and Nike HQ, don't they?

Thats why I keep saying I'd unclog the log jam by giving Oregon and Washington what they want---a Big12 GOR membership with an opt out clause if the B10 calls. If Im Yormark---and my goal is the 4-corners---why do I care if I take a package of 6 Pac12 teams (including the 4-corners) knowing that Oregon and Washington are rentals? Best case---the Big10 never calls and the Big12 gets the current king pins of the Pac12 as long term members---or worst case---you lose the Oregon/Washington pair to the B10 and end up with the 4-corners you were always targeting. I just dont see the down side.

If I’m running the Big 12, that’s essentially the approach that needs to be taken: no strings attached to any Pac-12 schools. If some schools get an invite to the Big Ten the next day, then no hard feelings or exit fees. That’s fine in the long run because the Big 12 would still be in a better position having added other Pac-12 schools. Offering a little more money than the Pac-12 isn’t really doing anything here. The Big 12 needs to offer a lot flexibility if wants movement.

However, as I’ve noted elsewhere, I think a lot of fans aren’t comprehending that Washington is every bit as academically elitist as Stanford and Cal and that’s a driving factor here. Oregon may not be as hung up on it, but Washington is more like Michigan than it is like Ohio State on this front. It truly needs to be horrific tire fire of a Pac-12 TV contract for Washington to even consider moving anywhere besides the Big Ten.

Isn't it a prisoner's dilemma situation? If anyone defects to the Big 12, a bunch of schools will defect. It's not that Washington would jump because Big 12 contract is better--they'd be jumping because the contract is bad enough that SOMEONE is going to jump.

If Washington is looking at a PAC with Oregon, STanford, Cal, WSU, OSU -- and SDSU, SMU, Fresno and Boise, is that better than being the first to jump to the Big 12?

I agree that it’s a prisoner’s dilemma situation, but the opposite holds true, too. As long as Washington and Oregon don’t have Big Ten invites, then the Four Corner schools also don’t want to move barring a true horrific tire fire TV deal.

(03-03-2023 01:51 PM)Poster Wrote:  I really can’t imagine Oregon and UW staying in a PAC 12 minus the Four Corners. They’ll either get an invite to the Big Ten (and for all we know the Four Corners could be leaving because they have imminent Big 10 invites) or will go with the Four Corners to the Big 12.

The Big Ten isn't going to add schools just because the Pac-12 loses members and the remaining schools call them.

They're the Big Ten. They're going to be ultra-selective. North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia Tech would be higher on their wish list than Washington.

I'd assume the Big Ten's list would also have STANFORD a lot higher than our athletics-based lists. That might be UW's best bet to get into the Big Ten in the next few years, actually: With Stanford.

(03-03-2023 11:35 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:14 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:56 AM)cc22 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:48 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:47 AM)ExpertAd991 Wrote:  Well if the PAC-12 is gone then the MWC is gonna gain some new members.

No, the A5 conference will be elevating G5 schools.

I always sort of figured this, tbh. I think as long as there's a husk of the Pac-12 (which I'll still be surprised if these moves happen), you're more likely to see everything flow upwards.

Depends on how many Pac schools are left and which schools they are.

If the only left-behinds are Washington State and Oregon State, I think they end up in the MWC and the Pac is done (or there's a full merger of the MWC and Pac under the Pac banner).

However if there are any other schools left in the Pac in addition to those two, I expect the Pac to succeed at rebuilding by raiding the MWC, and whoever is left behind in the MWC will be in very deep trouble.

I don't. I think even a 2 member Pac 12 is able invite MWC or AAC members. Do you realize how big of a war chest they will have from exit fees. We're talking in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

The Big East, which was essentially down to USF, Cincinnati, and Connecticut was able to lure CUSA schools to join. Remember, this was before they were called the AAC.

To my recollection, there was no PAC exit fee, which is why it was so easy for USC/UCLA to jump early.

(03-03-2023 02:14 PM)ThunderDent Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:35 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:14 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:56 AM)cc22 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:48 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  No, the A5 conference will be elevating G5 schools.

I always sort of figured this, tbh. I think as long as there's a husk of the Pac-12 (which I'll still be surprised if these moves happen), you're more likely to see everything flow upwards.

Depends on how many Pac schools are left and which schools they are.

If the only left-behinds are Washington State and Oregon State, I think they end up in the MWC and the Pac is done (or there's a full merger of the MWC and Pac under the Pac banner).

However if there are any other schools left in the Pac in addition to those two, I expect the Pac to succeed at rebuilding by raiding the MWC, and whoever is left behind in the MWC will be in very deep trouble.

I don't. I think even a 2 member Pac 12 is able invite MWC or AAC members. Do you realize how big of a war chest they will have from exit fees. We're talking in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

The Big East, which was essentially down to USF, Cincinnati, and Connecticut was able to lure CUSA schools to join. Remember, this was before they were called the AAC.

To my recollection, there was no PAC exit fee, which is why it was so easy for USC/UCLA to jump early.

They would still have tourney credits and probably some stuff I can't recall.

(03-03-2023 01:50 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:32 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I tend to agree. This could open the door for the Big East to add Gonzaga.

That door has been open since December of 2012.

True, but there may now be more of a sense of urgency on the parts of both parties (uniting for strength, so to speak).

(03-03-2023 10:48 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:47 AM)ExpertAd991 Wrote:  Well if the PAC-12 is gone then the MWC is gonna gain some new members.

No, the A5 conference will be elevating G5 schools.

Sort of, at the point you are talking about, does the PAC not become the 6 in G6 and we are left with a P4?

(03-03-2023 02:27 PM)jacksfan29! Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:48 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:47 AM)ExpertAd991 Wrote:  Well if the PAC-12 is gone then the MWC is gonna gain some new members.

No, the A5 conference will be elevating G5 schools.

Sort of, at the point you are talking about, does the PAC not become the 6 in G6 and we are left with a P4?

The 'Autonomy Five conferences' is a real thing with real voting and real structure. P5, P4, G5, and G6 are made up nicknames.

(03-03-2023 02:06 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:51 PM)Poster Wrote:  I really can’t imagine Oregon and UW staying in a PAC 12 minus the Four Corners. They’ll either get an invite to the Big Ten (and for all we know the Four Corners could be leaving because they have imminent Big 10 invites) or will go with the Four Corners to the Big 12.

The Big Ten isn't going to add schools just because the Pac-12 loses members and the remaining schools call them.

They're the Big Ten. They're going to be ultra-selective. North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia Tech would be higher on their wish list than Washington.

I'd assume the Big Ten's list would also have STANFORD a lot higher than our athletics-based lists. That might be UW's best bet to get into the Big Ten in the next few years, actually: With Stanford.

Virginia 1, UNC 2 I do not see Georgia Tech on the radar of the B1G.

(03-03-2023 02:06 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:51 PM)Poster Wrote:  I really can’t imagine Oregon and UW staying in a PAC 12 minus the Four Corners. They’ll either get an invite to the Big Ten (and for all we know the Four Corners could be leaving because they have imminent Big 10 invites) or will go with the Four Corners to the Big 12.

The Big Ten isn't going to add schools just because the Pac-12 loses members and the remaining schools call them.

They're the Big Ten. They're going to be ultra-selective. North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia Tech would be higher on their wish list than Washington.

I'd assume the Big Ten's list would also have STANFORD a lot higher than our athletics-based lists. That might be UW's best bet to get into the Big Ten in the next few years, actually: With Stanford.

All reports say that Oregon is higher on the Big 10 list than Stanford, and I was saying that the Four Corners might be moving to the Big 12 because they know UO and UW are announcing they’re going to the Big 10 in three weeks or something. I wasn’t saying that the Big Ten would be expanding in response to the Big 12 adding the Four Corners.


The ACC is locked down until 2036, and frankly I think that people vastly overrate how interested the Big 10 will be in UVA or Ga Tech (or any ACC school other than FSU, Miami, UNC and possibly Clemson) when their GOR expires.

(03-03-2023 01:00 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  The PAC has no exit fees.

The PAC also has a bunch of liabilities like $50M they owe Comcast, expensive lease in San Francisco, tons of employees to pay off at the PAC 12 Network when it folds, etc.

MWC might be able to buy the PAC name without the liabilities.

(03-03-2023 12:59 PM)Huan Wrote:  https://247sports.com/college/arizona/Ar...189624231/

It has always felt like UA were the school who would jump first. Colorado second. Which is why the rumor of CU and UU seems off. Now CU and UA? I could see it.

(03-03-2023 02:06 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  The Big Ten isn't going to add schools just because the Pac-12 loses members and the remaining schools call them.

North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia Tech would be higher on their wish list than Washington.

UNC: yes

UVA: no

GT: hell nah

...good lawd, y'all, it must be getting serious... ...even THIS dude is even starting to sound 'legit'...

(03-03-2023 02:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 02:06 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:51 PM)Poster Wrote:  I really can’t imagine Oregon and UW staying in a PAC 12 minus the Four Corners. They’ll either get an invite to the Big Ten (and for all we know the Four Corners could be leaving because they have imminent Big 10 invites) or will go with the Four Corners to the Big 12.

The Big Ten isn't going to add schools just because the Pac-12 loses members and the remaining schools call them.

They're the Big Ten. They're going to be ultra-selective. North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia Tech would be higher on their wish list than Washington.

I'd assume the Big Ten's list would also have STANFORD a lot higher than our athletics-based lists. That might be UW's best bet to get into the Big Ten in the next few years, actually: With Stanford.

All reports say that Oregon is higher on the Big 10 list than Stanford, and I was saying that the Four Corners might be moving to the Big 12 because they know UO and UW are announcing they’re going to the Big 10 in three weeks or something. I wasn’t saying that the Big Ten would be expanding in response to the Big 12 adding the Four Corners.


The ACC is locked down until 2036, and frankly I think that people vastly overrate how interested the Big 10 will be in UVA or Ga Tech (or any ACC school other than FSU, Miami, UNC and possibly Clemson) when their GOR expires.

I don't think the B1G want Stanford. And, based on comments from the school, some recently, I'm not sure Stanford wants the B1G. Listening to Stanford lately seems to indicate they are just not interested in the changes occurring in big time football.

(03-03-2023 01:50 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:32 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I tend to agree. This could open the door for the Big East to add Gonzaga.

That door has been open since December of 2012.

UConn had an open door since December 2012 too. What changed their situation? The AAC TV deal.

Gonzaga not having a PAC to join or an invitation to the Big 12 would compel them to need to join the Big East (and the Big East would desire them because they're an elite brand that can add annual value).

I'm rooting for the Big 12 to take from the PAC so that there's less of a need for the Big 12 to want them. Gonzaga is an institutional fit for the Big East. If they want to bring St. Mary's (necessitating SLU to come too for #14), so be it.