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MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
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Fresno Fanatic Offline
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Post: #21
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
MVC just likes a good ‘Chicago job’ better than an oral one, is all.

Either way - Oral or Chicago - There’s only 4 non(?)-“power” basketball conferences left that rival the 6 “power” conferences…

A10
AAC (even after new-6 replace BigXII-3)
Mountain West (even if sdsu leaves)
WCC (even if zags leave)

Edit: however, I would NOT be surprised if the Funbelt makes it 11 power basketball conferences in the near future. Everyone else, even MVC, is either dreaming or falling down further.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2023 09:04 PM by Fresno Fanatic.)
02-26-2023 08:55 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #22
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 08:55 PM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  MVC just likes a good ‘Chicago job’ better than an oral one, is all.

Either way - Oral or Chicago - There’s only 4 non(?)-“power” basketball conferences left that rival the 6 “power” conferences…

A10
AAC (even after new-6 replace BigXII-3)
Mountain West (even if sdsu leaves)
WCC (even if zags leave)

Edit: however, I would NOT be surprised if the Funbelt makes it 11 power basketball conferences in the near future. Everyone else, even MVC, is either dreaming or falling down further.

LOL
02-26-2023 09:09 PM
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Fresno Fanatic Offline
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Post: #23
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 09:09 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 08:55 PM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  MVC just likes a good ‘Chicago job’ better than an oral one, is all.

Either way - Oral or Chicago - There’s only 4 non(?)-“power” basketball conferences left that rival the 6 “power” conferences…

A10
AAC (even after new-6 replace BigXII-3)
Mountain West (even if sdsu leaves)
WCC (even if zags leave)

Edit: however, I would NOT be surprised if the Funbelt makes it 11 power basketball conferences in the near future. Everyone else, even MVC, is either dreaming or falling down further.

LOL

You have a point….maybe.

However, should the jesuits decide “for profit” is worth it, GCU would become the juggernaut zags are today, and zags will eventually become the “lol” you see the rest of the WCC as.

It’s, “spoh-kan”, not “spoh-kane”. LOL
02-26-2023 09:23 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #24
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 08:55 PM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  MVC just likes a good ‘Chicago job’ better than an oral one, is all.

Either way - Oral or Chicago - There’s only 4 non(?)-“power” basketball conferences left that rival the 6 “power” conferences…

A10
AAC (even after new-6 replace BigXII-3)
Mountain West (even if sdsu leaves)
WCC (even if zags leave)

Edit: however, I would NOT be surprised if the Funbelt makes it 11 power basketball conferences in the near future. Everyone else, even MVC, is either dreaming or falling down further.

Actually, entering this year, the new 12-school MVC had a higher 10-year KenPom than both the new 14-school AAC and Gonzaga/BYU-less WCC.

And the new 14-school Sun Belt wasn’t close to any of them - but they are good this year.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2023 09:35 PM by IWokeUpLikeThis.)
02-26-2023 09:33 PM
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Fresno Fanatic Offline
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Post: #25
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 09:33 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 08:55 PM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  MVC just likes a good ‘Chicago job’ better than an oral one, is all.

Either way - Oral or Chicago - There’s only 4 non(?)-“power” basketball conferences left that rival the 6 “power” conferences…

A10
AAC (even after new-6 replace BigXII-3)
Mountain West (even if sdsu leaves)
WCC (even if zags leave)

Edit: however, I would NOT be surprised if the Funbelt makes it 11 power basketball conferences in the near future. Everyone else, even MVC, is either dreaming or falling down further.

Actually, entering this year, the new 12-school MVC had a higher 10-year KenPom than both the new 14-school AAC and Gonzaga/BYU-less WCC.

And the new 14-school Sun Belt wasn’t close to any of them - but they are good this year.

Yes, “entering” this year….then actual play happened and…

…even WAC as good as MVC….whuuuuuuh??…

Edit/addendum: Hey, iWupLThis, your Cougar southsiders are coming to Fresno for the season finale. Love it!….but I do NOT love how poorly MAC is doing in basketball this year. WTF??!!
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2023 09:40 PM by Fresno Fanatic.)
02-26-2023 09:37 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #26
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 09:37 PM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 09:33 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 08:55 PM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  MVC just likes a good ‘Chicago job’ better than an oral one, is all.

Either way - Oral or Chicago - There’s only 4 non(?)-“power” basketball conferences left that rival the 6 “power” conferences…

A10
AAC (even after new-6 replace BigXII-3)
Mountain West (even if sdsu leaves)
WCC (even if zags leave)

Edit: however, I would NOT be surprised if the Funbelt makes it 11 power basketball conferences in the near future. Everyone else, even MVC, is either dreaming or falling down further.

Actually, entering this year, the new 12-school MVC had a higher 10-year KenPom than both the new 14-school AAC and Gonzaga/BYU-less WCC.

And the new 14-school Sun Belt wasn’t close to any of them - but they are good this year.

Yes, “entering” this year….then actual play happened and…

…even WAC as good as MVC….whuuuuuuh??…

Because the MVC’s NET ranking is skewed by 3 different schools having their all-time worst year in school history all at once. It is extremely unlikely that will keep up long-term. That doesn’t include Murray St - who returned 1 player and 1 assistant - and is consistently much better in years without extraordinary circumstances.

If you want to see how the above can skew NET ranking, here’s how.

The MVC has 5 NET top-120 schools:
More than Gonzaga/BYU less WCC (#8 NET)
Same as AAC (#9 NET)
Same as C-USA (#10 NET)
2 More than WAC (#11 NET)
More than A10 (#12 NET)
3 More than Ivy (#13 NET)
More than SBC (#14 NET)

So, yeah, the MVC is #15 NET. But again, it’s extremely unlikely moving forward that Murray St will have a 217 NET, Illinois St will have a 278 NET, or Evansville will have a 348 NET. If you’re betting on the MVC to continue at this year’s pace, then you’re betting on all those outliers to continue.

That’s not a smart long-term bet.
02-26-2023 09:53 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #27
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 09:37 PM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 09:33 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 08:55 PM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  MVC just likes a good ‘Chicago job’ better than an oral one, is all.

Either way - Oral or Chicago - There’s only 4 non(?)-“power” basketball conferences left that rival the 6 “power” conferences…

A10
AAC (even after new-6 replace BigXII-3)
Mountain West (even if sdsu leaves)
WCC (even if zags leave)

Edit: however, I would NOT be surprised if the Funbelt makes it 11 power basketball conferences in the near future. Everyone else, even MVC, is either dreaming or falling down further.

Actually, entering this year, the new 12-school MVC had a higher 10-year KenPom than both the new 14-school AAC and Gonzaga/BYU-less WCC.

And the new 14-school Sun Belt wasn’t close to any of them - but they are good this year.

Yes, “entering” this year….then actual play happened and…

…even WAC as good as MVC….whuuuuuuh??…

Edit/addendum: Hey, iWupLThis, your Cougar southsiders are coming to Fresno for the season finale. Love it!….but I do NOT love how poorly MAC is doing in basketball this year. WTF??!!

You guys will get the win, but I’m happy with our undefeated-at-home Cougars this year. 04-cheers

MAC basketball is what it is. Schools like Buffalo, Akron, Kent, Ohio, Toledo, & Ball St have good followings but the likes of CMU, WMU, & NIU are all-in on football.
02-26-2023 09:57 PM
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BirdstheWord Offline
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Post: #28
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
There was no want for Oral Roberts to join and they shouldn't be considered as a future addition.
02-26-2023 10:13 PM
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Scoochpooch1 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 03:40 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 03:12 PM)mvfcfan Wrote:  A lot of people don't go into Chicago anymore either considering how violent it is around there these days. It's a great place to get shot at on the weekends.

Tell me you dont know anything about Chicago without telling me you dont know anything about Chicago

To be fair, even if it was 100% accurate, you'd never admit it as a credential carrying media member. So in essence your opinion is just as much null and void as previous poster.
02-26-2023 10:17 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #30
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 10:17 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 03:40 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 03:12 PM)mvfcfan Wrote:  A lot of people don't go into Chicago anymore either considering how violent it is around there these days. It's a great place to get shot at on the weekends.

Tell me you dont know anything about Chicago without telling me you dont know anything about Chicago

To be fair, even if it was 100% accurate, you'd never admit it as a credential carrying media member. So in essence your opinion is just as much null and void as previous poster.

If you look at the crime/murder rates by neighborhood, you’ll see. They’re heavily concentrated in parts that people don’t ever visit unless they live there.

If you ever go to Chicago, I can guarantee you the parts you’re going to see are statistically very safe.
02-26-2023 11:20 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #31
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 11:20 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 10:17 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 03:40 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 03:12 PM)mvfcfan Wrote:  A lot of people don't go into Chicago anymore either considering how violent it is around there these days. It's a great place to get shot at on the weekends.

Tell me you dont know anything about Chicago without telling me you dont know anything about Chicago

To be fair, even if it was 100% accurate, you'd never admit it as a credential carrying media member. So in essence your opinion is just as much null and void as previous poster.

If you look at the crime/murder rates by neighborhood, you’ll see. They’re heavily concentrated in parts that people don’t ever visit unless they live there.

If you ever go to Chicago, I can guarantee you the parts you’re going to see are statistically very safe.

Yes - it absolutely drives me nuts.

A lot of people still don’t understand simply how *massive* Chicago is as a city both in terms of population and sheer physical size.

The half of Chicago that people would go to as a tourist - downtown, its adjacent areas, and the North Side - has a crime rate that is about the same as Toronto, Canada. If you were to formally split Chicago into two parts - akin to how San Francisco and Oakland are separate cities - that half of Chicago would have a population larger than San Francisco and be one of the safest cities in America.

There are certain cities in America where you can go from a nice neighborhood but then turn the wrong corner and end up in a bad neighborhood a couple of blocks away. (A lot of the Sun Belt cities come to mind there.) Chicago is NOT one of those places. There’s a pretty clear line of demarcation where avoiding where the preponderance of the crime occurs is fairly obvious.

Now, to be sure, that doesn’t excuse the long-term issues that have festered for generations in the other half of Chicago. It’s a true “Tale of Two Cities” problem that needs to be addressed.

Suffice to say, though, there are a lot of people nationally that have various self-interests to constantly talk about Chicago’s crime that are being completely disingenuous. The worst is using the “scary” total numbers based on a city of 3 million people while preying upon people’s general ignorance of statistics by neglecting that a lot of the much smaller cities that they live in, often in the Sun Belt, have higher crime rates.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2023 05:53 AM by Frank the Tank.)
02-27-2023 05:47 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #32
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
People will believe what they want to believe — even if it's not true. Many Americans truly believe the entirety of Chicago is a war zone. They have no clue about Chicago (i.e., that many parts of the city are safe and vibrant) and don't want to know the facts. It's almost comical.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2023 09:35 AM by bill dazzle.)
02-27-2023 09:32 AM
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MattBrownEP Offline
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Post: #33
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 10:17 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 03:40 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(02-26-2023 03:12 PM)mvfcfan Wrote:  A lot of people don't go into Chicago anymore either considering how violent it is around there these days. It's a great place to get shot at on the weekends.

Tell me you dont know anything about Chicago without telling me you dont know anything about Chicago

To be fair, even if it was 100% accurate, you'd never admit it as a credential carrying media member. So in essence your opinion is just as much null and void as previous poster.

People will just log into this website and say anything huh lol

anyway you weirdos, I live here. Not Naperville, not Evanston, not Downers Grove....Chicago.
02-27-2023 12:03 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #34
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
If the MVC wanted a southwestern outlet, I wonder if they would consider an ORU - UTA combo. ORU is a private school to balance with the public addition of UTA. I know they have the religious background but they would be a good basketball add
02-27-2023 12:06 PM
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jacksfan29! Offline
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Post: #35
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 09:23 AM)mvfcfan Wrote:  The MVC did great adding Murray State and Belmont, two mid major powerhouses in men's basketball. Unfortunately they added a very weak market school (UIC) that finished next to last in the league, and that has never had any real success in hoops.

Oral Roberts around 15 years ago was doing great in hoops and even knocked off #1 Kansas at one point. Then a few years ago they made a Cinderella run to the Sweet 16. Now they are 27-4 and won the Summit League Reg Season Title with a perfect 18-0 record. ORU is back, and they also would've gotten the MVC back into Tulsa, where the MVC brand still has a lot of name recognition. Even many Tulsa Hurricane fans have a high amount of respect for the MVC. Nobody in Chicago cares about anything other than the NBA and maybe the B1G.

ORU will be down again next year after Abmas leaves, SDSU keeps the current core they will be the favorite to win the Summit again. The reality is ORU would have struggled to win the Summit this year if SDSU had not lost Baylor Scheierman to Creighton. As a school ORU is small, financially unstable and academically poor, their olympic sports outside of Men's BB and baseball are avg to below avg. Their woman were once ok, but now staying within 30 of SDSU at home is considered win. Murray and Belmont are programs who reload, they don't vanish until they find one star. Not sure why the MVC added UIC or for that matter Valpo. But ORU? Unless the league has completely given up and are in a panic to add, it makes little sense.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2023 12:28 PM by jacksfan29!.)
02-27-2023 12:21 PM
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JSchmack Offline
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Post: #36
RE: MVC should have added Oral Roberts rather than UIC
(02-26-2023 09:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Because the MVC’s NET ranking is skewed by 3 different schools having their all-time worst year in school history all at once. It is extremely unlikely that will keep up long-term. That doesn’t include Murray St - who returned 1 player and 1 assistant - and is consistently much better in years without extraordinary circumstances.

If you want to see how the above can skew NET ranking, here’s how.

The MVC has 5 NET top-120 schools:
More than Gonzaga/BYU less WCC (#8 NET)
Same as AAC (#9 NET)
Same as C-USA (#10 NET)
2 More than WAC (#11 NET)
More than A10 (#12 NET)
3 More than Ivy (#13 NET)
More than SBC (#14 NET)

So, yeah, the MVC is #15 NET. But again, it’s extremely unlikely moving forward that Murray St will have a 217 NET, Illinois St will have a 278 NET, or Evansville will have a 348 NET. If you’re betting on the MVC to continue at this year’s pace, then you’re betting on all those outliers to continue.

That’s not a smart long-term bet.

I agree with you that using NET is dumb for comparing conferences if you're talking about future membership because of how much NET is based on SOS by team.

19 of 31, or 21 of 31 games are against conference teams and (since every conferences goes .500 against themselves) therefore a team's NET ranking is wholly dependent on what the rest of your conference does OOC, and you're CHANGING the makeup of the conference.

You're also changing the moving team's OOC schedule.

There's probably a bunch of teams on Belmont's schedule that are the same as when they were in the OVC... you just expect more home games.
02-27-2023 02:21 PM
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