(02-19-2023 09:59 PM)Buced_Up Wrote:  

(02-19-2023 08:05 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  I don't see a way to avoid the dreaded play in game. Am I missing something?

Win out and hope chatt and wofford stumble in the next two games. We own the tiebreaker over Wofford, so there is a chance

Why even talk about the SoCon tourney? This team ain’t going anywhere. Just get this season over and end the misery for awhile.

(02-20-2023 09:05 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(02-19-2023 09:59 PM)Buced_Up Wrote:  

(02-19-2023 08:05 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  I don't see a way to avoid the dreaded play in game. Am I missing something?

Win out and hope chatt and wofford stumble in the next two games. We own the tiebreaker over Wofford, so there is a chance

Why even talk about the SoCon tourney? This team ain’t going anywhere. Just get this season over and end the misery for awhile.

I was planning to go to the tourney and didn't know if I needed to take a vacation day Friday.

(02-20-2023 09:31 AM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 09:05 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(02-19-2023 09:59 PM)Buced_Up Wrote:  

(02-19-2023 08:05 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  I don't see a way to avoid the dreaded play in game. Am I missing something?

Win out and hope chatt and wofford stumble in the next two games. We own the tiebreaker over Wofford, so there is a chance

Why even talk about the SoCon tourney? This team ain’t going anywhere. Just get this season over and end the misery for awhile.

I was planning to go to the tourney and didn't know if I needed to take a vacation day Friday.

OK — I’ll ease up some. TEN games, FOUR points or less. If there is bad luck, it settled on the ETSU basketball program these last several years and has not let go.

INSIDE THE NUMBERS:

ETSU was dealt its 10th loss by four points or less this season as the Bucs dropped to 10-19 overall and 6-10 in league play. Furman, who swept the Bucs for the first time since 1986-87, improved to 22-7, 13-3.

(02-20-2023 09:37 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 09:31 AM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 09:05 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(02-19-2023 09:59 PM)Buced_Up Wrote:  

(02-19-2023 08:05 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  I don't see a way to avoid the dreaded play in game. Am I missing something?

Win out and hope chatt and wofford stumble in the next two games. We own the tiebreaker over Wofford, so there is a chance

Why even talk about the SoCon tourney? This team ain’t going anywhere. Just get this season over and end the misery for awhile.

I was planning to go to the tourney and didn't know if I needed to take a vacation day Friday.

OK — I’ll ease up some. TEN games, FOUR points or less. If there is bad luck, it settled on the ETSU basketball program these last several years and has not let go.

INSIDE THE NUMBERS:

ETSU was dealt its 10th loss by four points or less this season as the Bucs dropped to 10-19 overall and 6-10 in league play. Furman, who swept the Bucs for the first time since 1986-87, improved to 22-7, 13-3.

I believe this happening 10 times with the team collapsing in the final minutes, surely points to bad coaching and not luck. Oliver has shown that even with a better roster we can expect results that compare to this year.

If there had been just an inkling of improvement this season we all could maybe think we are moving in the right direction. This is the second year, not the first, and the team seems to be getting worse instead of better.

The full season record will be worse this year (currently 6-10 in conference, 10-19 overall) than last year (7-11, 15-17). It’s possible the Bucs don’t win another game and complete the sweep to have a worse conference record on top of overall.

Why were 10 games (maybe more to come?) decided by 4 points or less? Surely better coaching would have reclaimed half of those wins. At home, no less—worst showing I can remember in my time watching ETSU basketball. It wasn’t injuries, it was the complete lack of a cohesive guard based offense and small guards that can’t lock down bigger opponents.

Coupled with the fact that the SoCon is demonstrably weaker than years past, there is a strong case to be made that the program has in fact gotten worse this year. If ETSU plays on a Friday in Asheville this year, win or lose, it is to me optically worse than Bartow losing to WCU in Asheville the year he was canned. It reeks of incompetence, not being professionally ready, at the HC level.

You’ve got a top 3, if not #1, big man in the SoCon this year. Reliable backups even with Josh Taylor out on injury. The run and gun offense was not going to work with the guards available, and Oliver was unable to do something else. Bottom line.

So my fear as we call it a wrap in this ugly season—how many players will transfer for the chance to play with an established HC? What if we lose Haynes or Taylor, who is coming in to replace them? Can Oliver actually land good, appropriately sized, D1 guards (and a true PG!) ready to deliver? Or will we find ourselves perpetually rebuilding yet again?

Perpetual rebuilding is the new game, win or lose. Do we lose more by letting Oliver go or by keeping him one last year? I just don’t see, short of a brilliant 3/4-star PG transfer, how next year can be dramatically different with the same coaching staff in place. There will have to be a significant change at the assistant coach level, at the very least.

I think some of you all were watching a different game. I thought this was one of our better performances of the season. Up there with the Chatt-town win. *Other than* our usual TO-fest (this time almost exclusively the first half *of* the first half, with 7 or 8 just in that time frame) and failures to finish* (see below) (which was murderous, altho they were contested shots), we were inspired, aggressive, played with urgency (......until* (see below)) and intensity. I thought we played with a warrior's mentality - for the most part.

We shot over 50% overall; 50% from deep; essentially equaled them on the boards despite Slawson's herculean manliness; shot FTs good enough (.......until* (see below); and played 'as a team' better than most games this season --*without our point guard*! We had Furple worried in the second half several times, and their *incredible* shot-making from 3 precisely when the tide was turning - again and again - saved the game for them. Credit to Furple for being able to do that.

Respectfully, BigIslandBuc [corrected spelling] is just wrong in saying how bad this Furman team is. They're not a 'great' or 'elite' team, by historic SoCon standards, but they aren't a weak team at all. They have temendous experience, they have superior intelligence on passing and ball movement. Superior. That's good coaching. Duh. And yes, they're better than we are at that. But in that regard, our ball movement was perhaps as good as it's been all year. Everybody was trusting everybody else.

What I find amazing is that nobody - nobody - has even mentioned the fatigue that set in the last 6-8 minutes of the game - especially the last 4-5. Haynes was wiped out, and as we saw, cramping badly. His utter fatigue was why he wasn't remotely close on those last 2 (VERY critical) FTs he missed. Yet he played his heart out non-stop. Even King was tired (he played the full 40 minutes). Those guys competed as hard as they have all year - with better cohesiveness. Several commenters herein have been waiting all year for improvement. Well, I saw it yesterday, even if some of you all didn't. But yes, it's too late to "save the season". We're not gonna win the tournament. Our 16 seed ain't gonna happen.

Were there gaffes and weaknesses? Of course. Tipler's errant pass late was a biggie, but that stuff's just gonna happen. He ended with 6 assists, considerably more than Strothers usually has. Several of them *beautiful* interior dumps to Seymour and Haynes for dunks. We were *terribly* sloppy in the first half, but shot well enough to stay in it. We could actually have been up 5-7 without that sloppiness. But then things got cleaned up. We continually got burned with Princeton-esque back cuts in the second half. Again, credit to Furple/Ritchie for calling those. And how many 1-2 ft. shots did we miss? A dozen? That's been an ETSU trademark since about the middle of the bartow regime. But at least yesterday all but 1(?) were heavily contested. Don't know how to explain the *degree* to which that happens, but it's maddening.

This was a high-quality college basketball game, but with clear shortcomings by both teams. It was worthy of telecast, thankfully. I don't know if this will continue the last few games here, but I saw maturity; fire; cohesiveness; but no laziness (yes Haynes got beat one time downcourt (barely), but overall we weren't weak there).

Losing 10 games by 4 points or less is an amazing stat. Sure, coaching likely is responsible for some of those losses. But so is bad luck. And, personally, altho I don't intellectually believe it, of course, I still wonder if there isn't some higher power punishing us for past transgressions. It has the feel of somehow "paying dues". That doesn't help the players on the team right now, other than possibly going into the future.

*finish -- meaning finishing at the basket (successfully completing a shot attempt at point blank range, not the "finishing" SWVaBucsFan mistook a few years ago to mean closing out the game).

*until -- I actually already addressed this above. The "until" meaning until compromising fatigue finally achieved it's purchase.

(02-20-2023 02:19 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I think some of you all were watching a different game. I thought this was one of our better performances of the season. Up there with the Chatt-town win. *Other than* our usual TO-fest (this time almost exclusively the first half *of* the first half, with 7 or 8 just in that time frame) and failures to finish* (see below) (which was murderous, altho they were contested shots), we were inspired, aggressive, played with urgency (......until* (see below)) and intensity. I thought we played with a warrior's mentality - for the most part.

We shot over 50% overall; 50% from deep; essentially equaled them on the boards despite Slawson's herculean manliness; shot FTs good enough (.......until* (see below); and played 'as a team' better than most games this season --*without our point guard*! We had Furple worried in the second half several times, and their *incredible* shot-making from 3 precisely when the tide was turning - again and again - saved the game for them. Credit to Furple for being able to do that.

Respectfully, BigIslanBuc is just wrong in saying how bad this Furman team is. They're not a 'great' or 'elite' team, by historic SoCon standards, but they aren't a weak team at all. They have temendous experience, they have superior intelligence on passing and ball movement. Superior. That's good coaching. Duh. And yes, they're better than we are at that. But in that regard, our ball movement was perhaps as good as it's been all year. Everybody was trusting everybody else.

What I find amazing is that nobody - nobody - has even mentioned the fatigue that set in the last 6-8 minutes of the game - especially the last 4-5. Haynes was wiped out, and as we saw, cramping badly. His utter fatigue was why he wasn't remotely close on those last 2 (VERY critical) FTs he missed. Yet he played his heart out non-stop. Even King was tired (he played the full 40 minutes). Those guys competed as hard as they have all year - with better cohesiveness. Several commenters herein have been waiting all year for improvement. Well, I saw it yesterday, even if some of you all didn't. But yes, it's too late to "save the season". We're not gonna win the tournament. Our 16 seed ain't gonna happen.

Were there gaffes and weaknesses? Of course. Tipler's errant pass late was a biggie, but that stuff's just gonna happen. He ended with 6 assists, considerably more than Strothers usually has. Several of them *beautiful* interior dumps to Seymour and Haynes for dunks. We were *terribly* sloppy in the first half, but shot well enough to stay in it. We could actually have been up 5-7 without that sloppiness. But then things got cleaned up. We continually got burned with Princeton-esque back cuts in the second half. Again, credit to Furple/Ritchie for calling those. And how many 1-2 ft. shots did we miss? A dozen? That's been an ETSU trademark since about the middle of the bartow regime. But at least yesterday all but 1(?) were heavily contested. Don't know how to explain the *degree* to which that happens, but it's maddening.

This was a high-quality college basketball game, but with clear shortcomings by both teams. It was worthy of telecast, thankfully. I don't know if this will continue the last few games here, but I saw maturity; fire; cohesiveness; but no laziness (yes Haynes got beat one time downcourt (barely), but overall we weren't weak there).

Losing 10 games by 4 points or less is an amazing stat. Sure, coaching likely is responsible for some of those losses. But so is bad luck. And, personally, altho I don't intellectually believe it, of course, I still wonder if there isn't some higher power punishing us for past transgressions. It has the feel of somehow "paying dues". That doesn't help the players on the team right now, other than possibly going into the future.

*finish -- meaning finishing at the basket (successfully completing a shot attempt at point blank range, not the "finishing" SWVaBucsFan mistook a few years ago to mean closing out the game).

*until -- I actually already addressed this above. The "until" meaning until compromising fatigue finally achieved it's purchase.

With equal respect, there is a "d" in there. "BigIslandBuc." And my observation was meant to be that in some past years Furman would not have been contending for a championship with the team they have this year.
Your point about the physical endurance is well taken. My brother has been complaining to me all season (I'm not sure what he thinks I can do about it) that this team seems not to be in great shape.

(02-20-2023 02:19 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I think some of you all were watching a different game. I thought this was one of our better performances of the season. Up there with the Chatt-town win. *Other than* our usual TO-fest (this time almost exclusively the first half *of* the first half, with 7 or 8 just in that time frame) and failures to finish* (see below) (which was murderous, altho they were contested shots), we were inspired, aggressive, played with urgency (......until* (see below)) and intensity. I thought we played with a warrior's mentality - for the most part.

We shot over 50% overall; 50% from deep; essentially equaled them on the boards despite Slawson's herculean manliness; shot FTs good enough (.......until* (see below); and played 'as a team' better than most games this season --*without our point guard*! We had Furple worried in the second half several times, and their *incredible* shot-making from 3 precisely when the tide was turning - again and again - saved the game for them. Credit to Furple for being able to do that.

Respectfully, BigIslanBuc is just wrong in saying how bad this Furman team is. They're not a 'great' or 'elite' team, by historic SoCon standards, but they aren't a weak team at all. They have temendous experience, they have superior intelligence on passing and ball movement. Superior. That's good coaching. Duh. And yes, they're better than we are at that. But in that regard, our ball movement was perhaps as good as it's been all year. Everybody was trusting everybody else.

What I find amazing is that nobody - nobody - has even mentioned the fatigue that set in the last 6-8 minutes of the game - especially the last 4-5. Haynes was wiped out, and as we saw, cramping badly. His utter fatigue was why he wasn't remotely close on those last 2 (VERY critical) FTs he missed. Yet he played his heart out non-stop. Even King was tired (he played the full 40 minutes). Those guys competed as hard as they have all year - with better cohesiveness. Several commenters herein have been waiting all year for improvement. Well, I saw it yesterday, even if some of you all didn't. But yes, it's too late to "save the season". We're not gonna win the tournament. Our 16 seed ain't gonna happen.

Were there gaffes and weaknesses? Of course. Tipler's errant pass late was a biggie, but that stuff's just gonna happen. He ended with 6 assists, considerably more than Strothers usually has. Several of them *beautiful* interior dumps to Seymour and Haynes for dunks. We were *terribly* sloppy in the first half, but shot well enough to stay in it. We could actually have been up 5-7 without that sloppiness. But then things got cleaned up. We continually got burned with Princeton-esque back cuts in the second half. Again, credit to Furple/Ritchie for calling those. And how many 1-2 ft. shots did we miss? A dozen? That's been an ETSU trademark since about the middle of the bartow regime. But at least yesterday all but 1(?) were heavily contested. Don't know how to explain the *degree* to which that happens, but it's maddening.

This was a high-quality college basketball game, but with clear shortcomings by both teams. It was worthy of telecast, thankfully. I don't know if this will continue the last few games here, but I saw maturity; fire; cohesiveness; but no laziness (yes Haynes got beat one time downcourt (barely), but overall we weren't weak there).

Losing 10 games by 4 points or less is an amazing stat. Sure, coaching likely is responsible for some of those losses. But so is bad luck. And, personally, altho I don't intellectually believe it, of course, I still wonder if there isn't some higher power punishing us for past transgressions. It has the feel of somehow "paying dues". That doesn't help the players on the team right now, other than possibly going into the future.

*finish -- meaning finishing at the basket (successfully completing a shot attempt at point blank range, not the "finishing" SWVaBucsFan mistook a few years ago to mean closing out the game).

*until -- I actually already addressed this above. The "until" meaning until compromising fatigue finally achieved it's purchase.

Nice. Couldn’t agree more.

(02-20-2023 02:19 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I think some of you all were watching a different game. I thought this was one of our better performances of the season. Up there with the Chatt-town win. *Other than* our usual TO-fest (this time almost exclusively the first half *of* the first half, with 7 or 8 just in that time frame) and failures to finish* (see below) (which was murderous, altho they were contested shots), we were inspired, aggressive, played with urgency (......until* (see below)) and intensity. I thought we played with a warrior's mentality - for the most part.

We shot over 50% overall; 50% from deep; essentially equaled them on the boards despite Slawson's herculean manliness; shot FTs good enough (.......until* (see below); and played 'as a team' better than most games this season --*without our point guard*! We had Furple worried in the second half several times, and their *incredible* shot-making from 3 precisely when the tide was turning - again and again - saved the game for them. Credit to Furple for being able to do that.

Respectfully, BigIslanBuc is just wrong in saying how bad this Furman team is. They're not a 'great' or 'elite' team, by historic SoCon standards, but they aren't a weak team at all. They have temendous experience, they have superior intelligence on passing and ball movement. Superior. That's good coaching. Duh. And yes, they're better than we are at that. But in that regard, our ball movement was perhaps as good as it's been all year. Everybody was trusting everybody else.

What I find amazing is that nobody - nobody - has even mentioned the fatigue that set in the last 6-8 minutes of the game - especially the last 4-5. Haynes was wiped out, and as we saw, cramping badly. His utter fatigue was why he wasn't remotely close on those last 2 (VERY critical) FTs he missed. Yet he played his heart out non-stop. Even King was tired (he played the full 40 minutes). Those guys competed as hard as they have all year - with better cohesiveness. Several commenters herein have been waiting all year for improvement. Well, I saw it yesterday, even if some of you all didn't. But yes, it's too late to "save the season". We're not gonna win the tournament. Our 16 seed ain't gonna happen.

Were there gaffes and weaknesses? Of course. Tipler's errant pass late was a biggie, but that stuff's just gonna happen. He ended with 6 assists, considerably more than Strothers usually has. Several of them *beautiful* interior dumps to Seymour and Haynes for dunks. We were *terribly* sloppy in the first half, but shot well enough to stay in it. We could actually have been up 5-7 without that sloppiness. But then things got cleaned up. We continually got burned with Princeton-esque back cuts in the second half. Again, credit to Furple/Ritchie for calling those. And how many 1-2 ft. shots did we miss? A dozen? That's been an ETSU trademark since about the middle of the bartow regime. But at least yesterday all but 1(?) were heavily contested. Don't know how to explain the *degree* to which that happens, but it's maddening.

This was a high-quality college basketball game, but with clear shortcomings by both teams. It was worthy of telecast, thankfully. I don't know if this will continue the last few games here, but I saw maturity; fire; cohesiveness; but no laziness (yes Haynes got beat one time downcourt (barely), but overall we weren't weak there).

Losing 10 games by 4 points or less is an amazing stat. Sure, coaching likely is responsible for some of those losses. But so is bad luck. And, personally, altho I don't intellectually believe it, of course, I still wonder if there isn't some higher power punishing us for past transgressions. It has the feel of somehow "paying dues". That doesn't help the players on the team right now, other than possibly going into the future.

*finish -- meaning finishing at the basket (successfully completing a shot attempt at point blank range, not the "finishing" SWVaBucsFan mistook a few years ago to mean closing out the game).

*until -- I actually already addressed this above. The "until" meaning until compromising fatigue finally achieved it's purchase.

Geez - there you go again - being punished for past transgressions? Shay and Carter were directly responsible for the divisive, ugly politics descending on the basketball program. No matter how just the cause, and it was just — it was their responsibility to protect the basketball program while finding a better, more effective, and more appropriate-teaching way of exercising the First Amendment. ETSU as an institution IS NOT being punished for any transgressions in that it committed none while the individuals responsible for that political disaster actually got bonus pay on their way out. Go figure. ETSU, I believe, ended up holding the proverbial bag and is still suffering the CONSEQUENCES of the FAILURES and DISLOYALTY of those individuals who are likely still laughing all the way to the bank.

The coach's show will be on with Jay tonight at 6:00.

(02-20-2023 04:30 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 02:19 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I think some of you all were watching a different game. I thought this was one of our better performances of the season. Up there with the Chatt-town win. *Other than* our usual TO-fest (this time almost exclusively the first half *of* the first half, with 7 or 8 just in that time frame) and failures to finish* (see below) (which was murderous, altho they were contested shots), we were inspired, aggressive, played with urgency (......until* (see below)) and intensity. I thought we played with a warrior's mentality - for the most part.

We shot over 50% overall; 50% from deep; essentially equaled them on the boards despite Slawson's herculean manliness; shot FTs good enough (.......until* (see below); and played 'as a team' better than most games this season --*without our point guard*! We had Furple worried in the second half several times, and their *incredible* shot-making from 3 precisely when the tide was turning - again and again - saved the game for them. Credit to Furple for being able to do that.

Respectfully, BigIslanBuc is just wrong in saying how bad this Furman team is. They're not a 'great' or 'elite' team, by historic SoCon standards, but they aren't a weak team at all. They have temendous experience, they have superior intelligence on passing and ball movement. Superior. That's good coaching. Duh. And yes, they're better than we are at that. But in that regard, our ball movement was perhaps as good as it's been all year. Everybody was trusting everybody else.

What I find amazing is that nobody - nobody - has even mentioned the fatigue that set in the last 6-8 minutes of the game - especially the last 4-5. Haynes was wiped out, and as we saw, cramping badly. His utter fatigue was why he wasn't remotely close on those last 2 (VERY critical) FTs he missed. Yet he played his heart out non-stop. Even King was tired (he played the full 40 minutes). Those guys competed as hard as they have all year - with better cohesiveness. Several commenters herein have been waiting all year for improvement. Well, I saw it yesterday, even if some of you all didn't. But yes, it's too late to "save the season". We're not gonna win the tournament. Our 16 seed ain't gonna happen.

Were there gaffes and weaknesses? Of course. Tipler's errant pass late was a biggie, but that stuff's just gonna happen. He ended with 6 assists, considerably more than Strothers usually has. Several of them *beautiful* interior dumps to Seymour and Haynes for dunks. We were *terribly* sloppy in the first half, but shot well enough to stay in it. We could actually have been up 5-7 without that sloppiness. But then things got cleaned up. We continually got burned with Princeton-esque back cuts in the second half. Again, credit to Furple/Ritchie for calling those. And how many 1-2 ft. shots did we miss? A dozen? That's been an ETSU trademark since about the middle of the bartow regime. But at least yesterday all but 1(?) were heavily contested. Don't know how to explain the *degree* to which that happens, but it's maddening.

This was a high-quality college basketball game, but with clear shortcomings by both teams. It was worthy of telecast, thankfully. I don't know if this will continue the last few games here, but I saw maturity; fire; cohesiveness; but no laziness (yes Haynes got beat one time downcourt (barely), but overall we weren't weak there).

Losing 10 games by 4 points or less is an amazing stat. Sure, coaching likely is responsible for some of those losses. But so is bad luck. And, personally, altho I don't intellectually believe it, of course, I still wonder if there isn't some higher power punishing us for past transgressions. It has the feel of somehow "paying dues". That doesn't help the players on the team right now, other than possibly going into the future.

*finish -- meaning finishing at the basket (successfully completing a shot attempt at point blank range, not the "finishing" SWVaBucsFan mistook a few years ago to mean closing out the game).

*until -- I actually already addressed this above. The "until" meaning until compromising fatigue finally achieved it's purchase.

Geez - there you go again - being punished for past transgressions? Shay and Carter were directly responsible for the divisive, ugly politics descending on the basketball program. No matter how just the cause, and it was just — it was their responsibility to protect the basketball program while finding a better, more effective, and more appropriate-teaching way of exercising the First Amendment. ETSU as an institution IS NOT being punished for any transgressions in that it committed none while the individuals responsible for that political disaster actually got bonus pay on their way out. Go figure. ETSU, I believe, ended up holding the proverbial bag and is still suffering the CONSEQUENCES of the FAILURES and DISLOYALTY of those individuals who are likely still laughing all the way to the bank.

Kinda Trump-esque language. All caps. Disloyalty. Yada yada. The players had a right to exercise freedom of speech, no one knew how to manage that real time. A car dealer with some money made it a bigger deal than it was, that’s the counter point. Loyalty to Johnson City Honda, Johnson City? Give me a break. Give me another example of a university’s community responding so brashly to a similar controversy. We got left holding a bag that a car dealer wants his redundant business name on.

Still, something better could have been done. Once you see how loud the car dealer’s revving the engines, gotta do something. What to do is just so sticky and unclear.

As far as last name’s near perfect performance, classic mistakes cost the win. And it took a near perfect performance in the first place just for this team to be *competitive* with a standard good team. All year these performances have been followed by backslides. Get ready for a rough couple games, potentially.

(02-20-2023 06:36 PM)shampoo Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 04:30 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 02:19 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I think some of you all were watching a different game. I thought this was one of our better performances of the season. Up there with the Chatt-town win. *Other than* our usual TO-fest (this time almost exclusively the first half *of* the first half, with 7 or 8 just in that time frame) and failures to finish* (see below) (which was murderous, altho they were contested shots), we were inspired, aggressive, played with urgency (......until* (see below)) and intensity. I thought we played with a warrior's mentality - for the most part.

We shot over 50% overall; 50% from deep; essentially equaled them on the boards despite Slawson's herculean manliness; shot FTs good enough (.......until* (see below); and played 'as a team' better than most games this season --*without our point guard*! We had Furple worried in the second half several times, and their *incredible* shot-making from 3 precisely when the tide was turning - again and again - saved the game for them. Credit to Furple for being able to do that.

Respectfully, BigIslanBuc is just wrong in saying how bad this Furman team is. They're not a 'great' or 'elite' team, by historic SoCon standards, but they aren't a weak team at all. They have temendous experience, they have superior intelligence on passing and ball movement. Superior. That's good coaching. Duh. And yes, they're better than we are at that. But in that regard, our ball movement was perhaps as good as it's been all year. Everybody was trusting everybody else.

What I find amazing is that nobody - nobody - has even mentioned the fatigue that set in the last 6-8 minutes of the game - especially the last 4-5. Haynes was wiped out, and as we saw, cramping badly. His utter fatigue was why he wasn't remotely close on those last 2 (VERY critical) FTs he missed. Yet he played his heart out non-stop. Even King was tired (he played the full 40 minutes). Those guys competed as hard as they have all year - with better cohesiveness. Several commenters herein have been waiting all year for improvement. Well, I saw it yesterday, even if some of you all didn't. But yes, it's too late to "save the season". We're not gonna win the tournament. Our 16 seed ain't gonna happen.

Were there gaffes and weaknesses? Of course. Tipler's errant pass late was a biggie, but that stuff's just gonna happen. He ended with 6 assists, considerably more than Strothers usually has. Several of them *beautiful* interior dumps to Seymour and Haynes for dunks. We were *terribly* sloppy in the first half, but shot well enough to stay in it. We could actually have been up 5-7 without that sloppiness. But then things got cleaned up. We continually got burned with Princeton-esque back cuts in the second half. Again, credit to Furple/Ritchie for calling those. And how many 1-2 ft. shots did we miss? A dozen? That's been an ETSU trademark since about the middle of the bartow regime. But at least yesterday all but 1(?) were heavily contested. Don't know how to explain the *degree* to which that happens, but it's maddening.

This was a high-quality college basketball game, but with clear shortcomings by both teams. It was worthy of telecast, thankfully. I don't know if this will continue the last few games here, but I saw maturity; fire; cohesiveness; but no laziness (yes Haynes got beat one time downcourt (barely), but overall we weren't weak there).

Losing 10 games by 4 points or less is an amazing stat. Sure, coaching likely is responsible for some of those losses. But so is bad luck. And, personally, altho I don't intellectually believe it, of course, I still wonder if there isn't some higher power punishing us for past transgressions. It has the feel of somehow "paying dues". That doesn't help the players on the team right now, other than possibly going into the future.

*finish -- meaning finishing at the basket (successfully completing a shot attempt at point blank range, not the "finishing" SWVaBucsFan mistook a few years ago to mean closing out the game).

*until -- I actually already addressed this above. The "until" meaning until compromising fatigue finally achieved it's purchase.

Geez - there you go again - being punished for past transgressions? Shay and Carter were directly responsible for the divisive, ugly politics descending on the basketball program. No matter how just the cause, and it was just — it was their responsibility to protect the basketball program while finding a better, more effective, and more appropriate-teaching way of exercising the First Amendment. ETSU as an institution IS NOT being punished for any transgressions in that it committed none while the individuals responsible for that political disaster actually got bonus pay on their way out. Go figure. ETSU, I believe, ended up holding the proverbial bag and is still suffering the CONSEQUENCES of the FAILURES and DISLOYALTY of those individuals who are likely still laughing all the way to the bank.

Kinda Trump-esque language. All caps. Disloyalty. Yada yada. The players had a right to exercise freedom of speech, no one knew how to manage that real time. A car dealer with some money made it a bigger deal than it was, that’s the counter point. Loyalty to Johnson City Honda, Johnson City? Give me a break. Give me another example of a university’s community responding so brashly to a similar controversy. We got left holding a bag that a car dealer wants his redundant business name on.

Still, something better could have been done. Once you see how loud the car dealer’s revving the engines, gotta do something. What to do is just so sticky and unclear.

As far as last name’s near perfect performance, classic mistakes cost the win. And it took a near perfect performance in the first place just for this team to be *competitive* with a standard good team. All year these performances have been followed by backslides. Get ready for a rough couple games, potentially.

Trump-sequel language? That old labeling, name calling, and stereotyping is getting real worn. Absolutely, Shay was disloyal to ETSU his boss and signer of his paycheck, and apparently Carter at minimum looked the other way. I’m retired - but my employer would have fired me for such disloyalty, negative backlash, and stupidity. This was not about the students and their free speech rights, implying ETSU as an institution was somehow denying them or somehow complicit with denying them that right (as far from the truth that it gets) - it’s all about the lack of leadership of Shay and Carter, and I think ETSU basketball is still suffering the consequences of that.

(02-20-2023 03:16 PM)BigIslandBuc Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 02:19 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Respectfully, BigIslandBuc..........

With equal respect, there is a "d" in there. "BigIslandBuc." And my observation was meant to be that in some past years Furman would not have been contending for a championship with the team they have this year.
Your point about the physical endurance is well taken. My brother has been complaining to me all season (I'm not sure what he thinks I can do about it) that this team seems not to be in great shape.

My bad on the misspelling, of course. Was in a hurry as I had to leave. Will correct it in the original post.

I guess technically, I don't disagree with your clarified statement about Furple. I suppose it's a question of degree. This current team isn't nearly the equal of the great Chatt, ETSU, or UNC-G teams of, say, the last 15 years - but imo would be about equivalent to a 3rd-place team those years. Or 4th at worst. Maybe about like a Wofford without Fletcher Magee. The main point, tho, as we all agree (I think), is that the conference is quite a bit weaker this year. But that game yesterday was a high-level game by both teams - albeit sprinkled with shortcomings already elucidated.

I actually think this team is in shape. Haynes is the one who will show fatigue first because, well, 255 lbs gets tired quicker because by definition more energy is getting expended. But we know he plays like a madman in there. Have you ever played a full game under those conditions, at that pace? It's brutal. When that much is asked of a team over time, it wears a body down. In fact, I dare say Haynes has lost 10 lbs. during the season; maybe even 15. He looks lighter.

(02-20-2023 04:30 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 02:19 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Losing 10 games by 4 points or less is an amazing stat. Sure, coaching likely is responsible for some of those losses. But so is bad luck. And, personally, altho I don't intellectually believe it, of course, I still wonder if there isn't some higher power punishing us for past transgressions. It has the feel of somehow "paying dues". That doesn't help the players on the team right now, other than possibly going into the future.

Geez - there you go again - being punished for past transgressions? Shay and Carter were directly responsible for the divisive, ugly politics descending on the basketball program. No matter how just the cause, and it was just — it was their responsibility to protect the basketball program while finding a better, more effective, and more appropriate-teaching way of exercising the First Amendment. ETSU as an institution IS NOT being punished for any transgressions in that it committed none while the individuals responsible for that political disaster actually got bonus pay on their way out. Go figure. ETSU, I believe, ended up holding the proverbial bag and is still suffering the CONSEQUENCES of the FAILURES and DISLOYALTY of those individuals who are likely still laughing all the way to the bank.

Oh, man, take one of Oliver's chill pills. I wasn't doing this again. Wasn't even thinking along those lines. Was more or less just thinking out loud in my juju/karma/voodoo/jinx mindset about how eerie and snakebit this team is. I'm a man of science and fact, after all. [But yes, Virginia, the SI Jinx is a real thing. We don't know *how* it works, but the evidence is too strong to ignore.] While I disagree with some of your assertitions, we don't need to bring that horse back out, so I'm just gonna let that stuff lay.

(02-20-2023 08:11 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Geez - there you go again - being punished for past transgressions?.......


..........and I think ETSU basketball is still suffering the consequences of that.

Gee, that's funny/curious/contradictory. You act astonished that I would dare say something about past transgressions - and then in your next post *you* say virtually the same thing.

(02-21-2023 12:52 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 08:11 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Geez - there you go again - being punished for past transgressions?.......


..........and I think ETSU basketball is still suffering the consequences of that.

Gee, that's funny/curious/contradictory. You act astonished that I would dare say something about past transgressions - and then in your next post *you* say virtually the same thing.

Punishment and consequences are obviously not synonymous. ETSU as an institution deserves no punishment for past transgressions. However, ETSU as an institution is experiencing the negative consequences of former employees of its Athletic Department over divisive politics that should have been handled elsewhere on the campus. I’m sure the ETSU administration would have gone out of its way to accommodate any and all forms of the peaceful exercise of Free Speech by any of its athletes regarding those issues if had of been properly petitioned at the time.

(02-21-2023 09:23 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(02-21-2023 12:52 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 08:11 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Geez - there you go again - being punished for past transgressions?.......


..........and I think ETSU basketball is still suffering the consequences of that.

Gee, that's funny/curious/contradictory. You act astonished that I would dare say something about past transgressions - and then in your next post *you* say virtually the same thing.

Punishment and consequences are obviously not synonymous. ETSU as an institution deserves no punishment for past transgressions. However, ETSU as an institution is experiencing the negative consequences of former employees of its Athletic Department over divisive politics that should have been handled elsewhere on the campus. I’m sure the ETSU administration would have gone out of its way to accommodate any and all forms of the peaceful exercise of Free Speech by any of its athletes regarding those issues if had of been properly petitioned at the time.

Listen bub, if there’s some magic petition system or anything whatsoever, why didn’t Noland and others step in and redirect the student athletes to a “better” forum? ETSU clearly had no response or guidance for the student athletes, worse yet for the staff put in the difficult position of overseeing them. Get real. If any such system or guidance had existed, the situation would have been managed and Joe Trajillo would have had Bojangles for breakfast and Barberitos for dinner with a bag fit grin on his Johnson City Honda, Johnson City face.

Why did the upper echelon of the university not engage directly with the student athletes? Where was the forum for discussion of multiple viewpoints? All you get is one stinking letter from Noland, an obsequious middle ground letter. That’s what happens when you have no plan and the dissenting half of community jumps to torch and pitchforks. Shoot, Joe Trujillo in his infinite wisdom could have personally funded a panel and community events to resolve the matter himself. Nope. Get rid of the coach so we can tend to the important work of sitting our asses at basketball games. Jason Shay became the fall guy, and that’s why Noland cut him a check. They bought him off to show deference to the man that buys them off, Angry Joe.

^^^^^^^^^ Agree with that ^^^^^^^^^. [Was meant to refer to shampoo's original comments - but can't argue with the additions, either.]

Buc66 continues to give those 19-20-yr. olds too much credit for being able to think all that through. They were (blissfully) unaware of the potential repercussions - to their credit, actually. Simple logic precludes that they wanted to attempt to destroy their season. An absurd contention. The bungling was on the part of ETSU, and the gross overreaction of the pols, not the players - and at most only lightly on shay. He didn't walk away with all that cash because he was in the wrong. And please, let's not go down this road yet again. But whatever......

(02-21-2023 11:56 AM)shampoo Wrote:  

(02-21-2023 09:23 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(02-21-2023 12:52 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(02-20-2023 08:11 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Geez - there you go again - being punished for past transgressions?.......


..........and I think ETSU basketball is still suffering the consequences of that.

Gee, that's funny/curious/contradictory. You act astonished that I would dare say something about past transgressions - and then in your next post *you* say virtually the same thing.

Punishment and consequences are obviously not synonymous. ETSU as an institution deserves no punishment for past transgressions. However, ETSU as an institution is experiencing the negative consequences of former employees of its Athletic Department over divisive politics that should have been handled elsewhere on the campus. I’m sure the ETSU administration would have gone out of its way to accommodate any and all forms of the peaceful exercise of Free Speech by any of its athletes regarding those issues if had of been properly petitioned at the time.

Listen bub, if there’s some magic petition system or anything whatsoever, why didn’t Noland and others step in and redirect the student athletes to a “better” forum? ETSU clearly had no response or guidance for the student athletes, worse yet for the staff put in the difficult position of overseeing them. Get real. If any such system or guidance had existed, the situation would have been managed and Joe Trajillo would have had Bojangles for breakfast and Barberitos for dinner with a bag fit grin on his Johnson City Honda, Johnson City face.

Why did the upper echelon of the university not engage directly with the student athletes? Where was the forum for discussion of multiple viewpoints? All you get is one stinking letter from Noland, an obsequious middle ground letter. That’s what happens when you have no plan and the dissenting half of community jumps to torch and pitchforks. Shoot, Joe Trujillo in his infinite wisdom could have personally funded a panel and community events to resolve the matter himself. Nope. Get rid of the coach so we can tend to the important work of sitting our asses at basketball games. Jason Shay became the fall guy, and that’s why Noland cut him a check. They bought him off to show deference to the man that buys them off, Angry Joe.

The coach, Carter, and team captains met with Noland and he turned them down, so they took it to the basketball court? Can you back that up with facts?