The only way Liberty could ever be affiliated, indirectly in this case, with the current members of the Big East, would be this scenario:

The NCAA votes to allow DI-A/FBS "football-only" leagues (much like it allows the football-only Missouri Valley Football Conference in DI-AA/FCS). From this NCAA move is born a "Big East Football Conference" that essentially operates independent of the Big East Conference, with each having its own governance, TV contracts, etc. (though there could be some shared marketing synergies).

With this arrangement, the Big East Football Conference could have various members (including Liberty) that are NOT also members of the Big East Conference. But even then, the chances of Liberty being invited to this hypothetical Big East Football Conference would likely be modest at best.

(12-23-2022 11:20 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-23-2022 11:02 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 11:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 05:42 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 04:02 PM)esayem Wrote:  UMass is already making moves with basketball in mind otherwise they’d be in the MAC. Maybe this dismal A10 season will get them on the move westward.

To what league, esayem? I'm not understanding your phrasing of the first sentence.

Meaning they allowed their MAC opportunity to expire and went Indy in football because they didn’t want to leave the A10. What I’m saying is I don’t think UConn’s membership has any bearing on UMass regarding the Big East. I think they’d join no matter what.

The question is not whether UMass would take a Big East invite. It would. Even as, hypothetically, a replacement for a departed UConn. Rather, would the Big East want UMass if UConn left? I would think not. UMass would be a nice complementary school to UConn for the BE. But by itself? Probably not.

Well, that’s a fair question. They certainly don’t have the status to replace UConn—which isn’t going anywhere for awhile anyways—but if the Big East wants to get back into MA, I don’t see any other option. As I mentioned, BU would be in already if they had a pulse, and Holy Cross hasn’t made any effort to even move up to the A10.

As a Memphis fan, and with basketball in mind, I would have been pleased had the American invited UMass for all-sports membership instead of one particular university it did invite (I will not ID that school out of respect for its fans on this board).

(12-23-2022 10:49 AM)Section 200 Wrote:  

(12-23-2022 10:45 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I thought the Big East messed up not taking Dayton at the same time with Xavier before they got veto power.

What about Dayton makes them attractive to Big East teams? It's not a student or player recruiting hot spot, there isn't a large amount of Big East alumni, it isn't in the national spotlight, etc. Why would St Johns, Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette, etc want Dayton in the league?

The alternative is west of the Mississippi.

IMO, all of FBS should be football only conferences with the Olympic sports being in more traditional and regional conferences. This would settle realignment and be better for the students and fans. Of course, this makes too sense so it won't happen.

As far as the hypothetical with my Flames, I'm not sure we'd accept a Big East invite without a home for our football team. Although, i'd personally wouldn't be opposed to remaining football indy in order to join the Big East.

(12-23-2022 03:56 PM)LUOrange Wrote:  IMO, all of FBS should be football only conferences with the Olympic sports being in more traditional and regional conferences. This would settle realignment and be better for the students and fans. Of course, this makes too sense so it won't happen.

As far as the hypothetical with my Flames, I'm not sure we'd accept a Big East invite without a home for our football team. Although, i'd personally wouldn't be opposed to remaining football indy in order to join the Big East.

bolded - I would like to see that happen too.

There are already certain schools which have certain sports in different conferences.

No real reason that this couldn't be done.

There have been talks about DePaul and Xavier to restart football. Maybe at the non-scholarship level as a Big East sponsor sport. If the FBS schools do split from the rest of D1 to make it 1A and 1AA for all sports? They could be looking at sponsoring FBS football in the future.

Dayton and UMass for all sports might be part in the future.

UConn and UMass is already FBS.

Georgetown, Villanova and Butler have football.

DePaul and Xavier are thinking of restrating football.

That gives you 7 all sports without Dayton. Adding Dayton will make it 8 full members. If they are looking that way? They might take a look at Drake out of the MVC who have football in the Pioneer League.

Loyola Chicago could be brought in to help both programs to get a pulse going in a rivalry games. As it is, cities as large as Chicago or NYC could have like 2 different tv markets because how large the city is stretched by miles.

Other schools that could be Big East football only could be Fordham, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette if they want to go there.

I have not heard of any other Big East schools who want to start football anytime soon.

(12-20-2022 05:03 PM)jhjhanaway Wrote:  

(12-20-2022 04:54 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  Are we just adding our favorites?! OK, I'll go next:

- Providence
- UConn
- UMass
- Siena
- St. John’s
- Seton Hall
- Villanova
- Georgetown
- Detroit
- Xavier
- Butler
- DePaul
- Loyola Chicago
- Marquette
- St. Thomas
- Creighton

- Providence
- UConn
- UMass
- Central Missouri
- St. John’s
- Seton Hall
- Villanova
- Georgetown
- Detroit
- Xavier
- Butler
- DePaul
- Loyola Chicago
- Marquette
-Saint Louis
- Creighton

Hey! That is fun! Odd fit but I could see a rivalry between SLU and UCM brewing!

SEMO needs to be in their to make sure the state of MO is covered

(12-20-2022 05:03 PM)jhjhanaway Wrote:  

(12-20-2022 04:54 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  Are we just adding our favorites?! OK, I'll go next:

- Providence
- UConn
- UMass
- Siena
- St. John’s
- Seton Hall
- Villanova
- Georgetown
- Detroit
- Xavier
- Butler
- DePaul
- Loyola Chicago
- Marquette
- St. Thomas
- Creighton

- Providence
- UConn
- UMass
- Central Missouri
- St. John’s
- Seton Hall
- Villanova
- Georgetown
- Detroit
- Xavier
- Butler
- DePaul
- Loyola Chicago
- Marquette
-Saint Louis
- Creighton

Hey! That is fun! Odd fit but I could see a rivalry between SLU and UCM brewing!

SEMO needs to be in there to make sure the state of MO is covered.

Oh! and umkc for western part of the state

(12-23-2022 05:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  There have been talks about DePaul and Xavier to restart football. Maybe at the non-scholarship level as a Big East sponsor sport. If the FBS schools do split from the rest of D1 to make it 1A and 1AA for all sports? They could be looking at sponsoring FBS football in the future.

Dayton and UMass for all sports might be part in the future.

UConn and UMass is already FBS.

Georgetown, Villanova and Butler have football.

DePaul and Xavier are thinking of restrating football.

That gives you 7 all sports without Dayton. Adding Dayton will make it 8 full members. If they are looking that way? They might take a look at Drake out of the MVC who have football in the Pioneer League.

Loyola Chicago could be brought in to help both programs to get a pulse going in a rivalry games. As it is, cities as large as Chicago or NYC could have like 2 different tv markets because how large the city is stretched by miles.

Other schools that could be Big East football only could be Fordham, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette if they want to go there.

I have not heard of any other Big East schools who want to start football anytime soon.

David, the Big East schools who play football all do so at dramatically different levels:

UConn: G5-level FBS
Villanova: we’ll respected FCS program
Georgetown: Non-scholarship trying to make it in a scholarship league
Butler: non-scholarship

That’s simply not conducive to league play. Even if Dayton joined and Xavier added a non scholarship team that’s not enough for a league and Georgetown probably won’t leave the Patriot to be part of it.

(12-23-2022 05:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  There have been talks about DePaul and Xavier to restart football. Maybe at the non-scholarship level as a Big East sponsor sport. If the FBS schools do split from the rest of D1 to make it 1A and 1AA for all sports? They could be looking at sponsoring FBS football in the future.

Dayton and UMass for all sports might be part in the future.

UConn and UMass is already FBS.

Georgetown, Villanova and Butler have football.

DePaul and Xavier are thinking of restrating football.

That gives you 7 all sports without Dayton. Adding Dayton will make it 8 full members. If they are looking that way? They might take a look at Drake out of the MVC who have football in the Pioneer League.

Loyola Chicago could be brought in to help both programs to get a pulse going in a rivalry games. As it is, cities as large as Chicago or NYC could have like 2 different tv markets because how large the city is stretched by miles.

Other schools that could be Big East football only could be Fordham, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette if they want to go there.

I have not heard of any other Big East schools who want to start football anytime soon.

The Big East does not sponsor football. Perhaps UMass and UConn someday will be good enough to be a pair of FB Only additions. Yes a long shot, both teams are committed to FBS and being independent unless a FB Only option presents itself. The point here Dave, UMass would accept a Big East invite if offered.

(12-23-2022 09:24 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(12-21-2022 07:50 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(12-21-2022 05:41 PM)AuzGrams Wrote:  Saint Louis or Massachusetts are the schools here.

But St. Louis is more likely to bridge that huge island that Creighton is on. Only makes sense. Dayton is next up.

At least someone else admits that Creighton is at least a geographical misfit in the Big "East".

FWIW, they also have U. of Denver as an affiliate member (lacrosse).

(12-20-2022 05:37 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I can see these schools as candidates with the Big East choosing 1:
Dayton
Massachusetts
Saint Louis
Virginia Commonwealth

My money would be on either Saint Louis or Massachusetts.

My Money would be on St Louis.

X would block Dayton
Uconn would Block Umass
and Georgetown would Block VCU

I think Creighton would benefit from the additional geographic representation (well closer to them anyways).

(12-23-2022 11:03 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-23-2022 10:49 AM)Section 200 Wrote:  

(12-23-2022 10:45 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I thought the Big East messed up not taking Dayton at the same time with Xavier before they got veto power.

What about Dayton makes them attractive to Big East teams? It's not a student or player recruiting hot spot, there isn't a large amount of Big East alumni, it isn't in the national spotlight, etc. Why would St Johns, Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette, etc want Dayton in the league?

I do agree that Dayton is overrated as a Big East candidate for the reasons that you've stated. As sports fans, we generally do recognize that Dayton has (a) a great and loyal fan base and (b) pretty consistent on-the-court performance (and sometimes even great during certain times).

However, I put "Dayton to the Big East" in the same speculative expansion category as "West Virginia to the ACC" or "Iowa State to the Big Ten" or "BYU to the Pac-12". Those are all schools with loyal fan bases that are geographic fits for those respective leagues (which is why so many fans suggest them), but they also all have very entrenched reasons (whether it's academic fit, doubling up on an existing market, or institutional fit) as to why all of those moves haven't ever happened and almost certainly won't happen in the future.

Dayton is annually a top-25 program with attendance (averaging over 13k per home game). They travel well with road games, as well as to the A10 Tournament. They have over 11k students (would be 5th in the BE); $770 million endowment (would be 4th in the BE); 127th in USNWR Academic Rankings (would be similar to Creighton/DePaul/Seton Hall); they are also a Private/Catholic institution, which 9 of 11 Big East members currently are (Butler does not have a religious affiliation).

Xavier and Dayton were within the same conference from 1987-1993 (MCC) and then 1995-2013 (Atlantic 10); Xavier did not block Dayton in 1987 in the MCC, nor did they block Dayton in 1995 for the A10 when they weren't invited to be part of the Metro/GMC merger. However, it is very telling that neither Dayton or Xavier have played each other in basketball since both being in the A10 in 2013.

(12-23-2022 11:26 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The only way Liberty could ever be affiliated, indirectly in this case, with the current members of the Big East, would be this scenario:

The NCAA votes to allow DI-A/FBS "football-only" leagues (much like it allows the football-only Missouri Valley Football Conference in DI-AA/FCS). From this NCAA move is born a "Big East Football Conference" that essentially operates independent of the Big East Conference, with each having its own governance, TV contracts, etc. (though there could be some shared marketing synergies).

With this arrangement, the Big East Football Conference could have various members (including Liberty) that are NOT also members of the Big East Conference. But even then, the chances of Liberty being invited to this hypothetical Big East Football Conference would likely be modest at best.

Liberty to the Big East makes zero sense on either side. I can’t imagine that Liberty basketball is Big East caliber. And look at all the Catholic schools in the Big East-do you really think that Liberty has ever stopped believing that Catholics are evil Satanists? (Despite that fake alliance they’ve pretended to create with Catholics on abortion.)

(12-27-2022 12:20 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(12-23-2022 11:26 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The only way Liberty could ever be affiliated, indirectly in this case, with the current members of the Big East, would be this scenario:

The NCAA votes to allow DI-A/FBS "football-only" leagues (much like it allows the football-only Missouri Valley Football Conference in DI-AA/FCS). From this NCAA move is born a "Big East Football Conference" that essentially operates independent of the Big East Conference, with each having its own governance, TV contracts, etc. (though there could be some shared marketing synergies).

With this arrangement, the Big East Football Conference could have various members (including Liberty) that are NOT also members of the Big East Conference. But even then, the chances of Liberty being invited to this hypothetical Big East Football Conference would likely be modest at best.

Liberty to the Big East makes zero sense on either side. I can’t imagine that Liberty basketball is Big East caliber. And look at all the Catholic schools in the Big East-do you really think that Liberty has ever stopped believing that Catholics are evil Satanists? (Despite that fake alliance they’ve pretended to create with Catholics on abortion.)

Maybe not top of the league but they've played at a middle of the road BE level for most of the last decade. Still a nearly zero probability of a BE invite based on institutional fit alone.

(12-27-2022 12:20 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(12-23-2022 11:26 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The only way Liberty could ever be affiliated, indirectly in this case, with the current members of the Big East, would be this scenario:

The NCAA votes to allow DI-A/FBS "football-only" leagues (much like it allows the football-only Missouri Valley Football Conference in DI-AA/FCS). From this NCAA move is born a "Big East Football Conference" that essentially operates independent of the Big East Conference, with each having its own governance, TV contracts, etc. (though there could be some shared marketing synergies).

With this arrangement, the Big East Football Conference could have various members (including Liberty) that are NOT also members of the Big East Conference. But even then, the chances of Liberty being invited to this hypothetical Big East Football Conference would likely be modest at best.

Liberty to the Big East makes zero sense on either side. I can’t imagine that Liberty basketball is Big East caliber. And look at all the Catholic schools in the Big East-do you really think that Liberty has ever stopped believing that Catholics are evil Satanists? (Despite that fake alliance they’ve pretended to create with Catholics on abortion.)

Again, and as I have noted in previous posts, the Big East is not going to invite Liberty.

Rather, there is a hypothetical scenario (though the chances are slim) that would see an NCAA-approved FBS D-IA football-only league called (let's say for the sake of context) the Big East Football Conference (which would be only loosely aligned with the current Big East). Some of the Big East Football Conference members (say, for example, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Boston College, Louisville and UConn) would play football in that league and have all their other sports in the all-sports-but-football Big East. Some other schools (Liberty, for example) could be football-only in the Big East Football Conference.

The chances of this scenario are almost zero. But it is the only example I can envision of how Liberty could be very loosely affiliated with the 11 current members of the Big East.

(12-27-2022 12:43 PM)whittx Wrote:  Maybe not top of the league but they've played at a middle of the road BE level for most of the last decade. Still a nearly zero probability of a BE invite based on institutional fit alone.

Pomeroy ratings:

2022-23 (thus far):

2. UConn
24. Creighton
27. Marquette
28. Xavier
53. Villanova
57. St. John's
63. Providence
65. Seton Hall
79. Butler
84. LIBERTY
121. DePaul
169. Georgetown

2021-22:

10. Villanova
22. UConn
32. Providence
50. Creighton
52. Seton Hall
53. Xavier
55. St. John's
56. Marquette
103. DePaul
121. Butler
124. LIBERTY
175. Georgetown

2020-21:

12. Villanova
21. UConn
22. Creighton
54. Seton Hall
63. Georgetown
66. Xavier
69. St. John's
80. Providence
83. Marquette
98. LIBERTY
120. Butler
141. DePaul

2019-20:

12. Creighton
18. Villanova
20. Seton Hall
25. Butler
31. Marquette
40. Providence
45. Xavier
66. St. John's
67. Georgetown
79. LIBERTY
94. DePaul

2018-19:

30. Villanova
33. Marquette
55. Creighton
58. LIBERTY
60. Seton Hall
65. Xavier
72. Butler
79. Providence
88. St. John's
100. Georgetown
118. DePaul

2017-18:

1. Villanova
15. Xavier
20. Butler
26. Seton Hall
30. Creighton
53. Marquette
63. Providence
74. St. John's
94. Georgetown
99. DePaul
184. LIBERTY

2016-17:

2. Villanova
25. Butler
28. Creighton
31. Xavier
32. Marquette
51. Seton Hall
60. Providence
69. Georgetown
99. St. John's
183. DePaul
211. LIBERTY

2015-16:

1. Villanova
14. Xavier
29. Seton Hall
30. Butler
40. Creighton
44. Providence
62. Georgetown
97. Marquette
183. DePaul
211. St. John's
292. LIBERTY

2014-15:

5. Villanova
20. Butler
21. Xavier
22. Georgetown
27. Providence
50. St. John's
79. Creighton
83. Seton Hall
93. Marquette
150. DePaul
333. LIBERTY

2013-14:

11. Villanova
17. Creighton
48. Providence
52. Xavier
54. St. John's
57. Georgetown
68. Marquette
94. Seton Hall
99. Butler
183. DePaul
283. LIBERTY

I'd love to hear more about this Liberty school that is equivalent to a midpack Big East school for the past decade. Because the one that exists in the real world would have finished outside the bottom three once, and that was in the worst year for the Big East in its history. Otherwise, it seems like Liberty could best be summarized as "A slightly worse DePaul, located well outside any major metro area, with distasteful politics we would have to explain away to our northeastern based alumni."

Also, forget about the Big East ever getting back into the football business. Fool me into sharing a league with East Carolina once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

For those not familiar with the Missouri Valley Football Conference:

Per Wiki:

The then-Gateway Football Conference rebranded the Missouri Valley Football Conference in June 2008. The change resulted in an alignment, of sorts, of the Missouri Valley Football Conference with the Missouri Valley Conference, a league in which five of the nine Missouri Valley Football Conference schools were (and remain) all-sports members. The two conferences — each has its own commissioner and TV deal — continue to share the "Missouri Valley" name and an office space in a building in St. Louis. However, they remain separate entities overall.

Now, the Missouri Valley Football Conference is FCS D-IAA. If the NCAA ever approved FBS D-IA football-only leagues — and if realignment continues to play out in such a way that some schools located east of the Mississippi cannot find a suitable all-sports league home (two major IFs, admittedly), we could see, for example, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Boston College, Louisville, Wake Forest and UConn (and perhaps others) join the Big East in all sports (but not football, of course, as the BE does not and almost certainly will not ever sponsor that sport again). Those schools, at that point, could either go indy in football OR align in a "football only" league (using the name Big East Football Conference could be helpful for marketing/branding synergies). And that football league could invite some programs that will not be members of the "regular" Big East. Thus the chances of a Liberty (or a Temple, UMass, Buffalo, Memphis, USF, Navy, East Carolina, etc.) being in the mix.

The benefits to the existing Big East members? 1. It "makes more happy than otherwise" those schools that will be members of both the "regular BE" and the "football-only BE." 2. It allows the BE name to be more prominent during the football season. All while not forcing the existing Big East without having to deal with the headaches of football.

As noted, I feel the chances of this happening will be very slim (if not nonexistent). I simply note this hypothetical as a way of showing how, in theory, Liberty could become very loosely affiliated with the existing Big East members.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_V...Conference

(12-27-2022 01:44 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(12-27-2022 12:43 PM)whittx Wrote:  Maybe not top of the league but they've played at a middle of the road BE level for most of the last decade. Still a nearly zero probability of a BE invite based on institutional fit alone.

I'd love to hear more about this Liberty school that is equivalent to a midpack Big East school for the past decade. Because the one that exists in the real world would have finished outside the bottom three once, and that was in the worst year for the Big East in its history. Otherwise, it seems like Liberty could best be summarized as "A slightly worse DePaul, located well outside any major metro area, with distasteful politics we would have to explain away to our northeastern based alumni."

Also, forget about the Big East ever getting back into the football business. Fool me into sharing a league with East Carolina once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

It is simply not a fair comparison.... Their ranking is what it is - sure. But that ranking is not based on Liberty playing an game 18 BE schedule. No way they get that high with that schedule.

(12-23-2022 04:00 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(12-23-2022 03:56 PM)LUOrange Wrote:  IMO, all of FBS should be football only conferences with the Olympic sports being in more traditional and regional conferences. This would settle realignment and be better for the students and fans. Of course, this makes too sense so it won't happen.

As far as the hypothetical with my Flames, I'm not sure we'd accept a Big East invite without a home for our football team. Although, i'd personally wouldn't be opposed to remaining football indy in order to join the Big East.

bolded - I would like to see that happen too.

There are already certain schools which have certain sports in different conferences.

No real reason that this couldn't be done.

Count me in as well.

If the NCAA were to ever decide to get completely out of the football business, and new football only conferences were to form within the universe of FBS programs, I wonder if any of those conferences would invite UConn and/or UMass. For football only, geography (that is, travel considerations) wouldn't be much of an issue. But what would either of these programs offer to anyone not in their region?