These arguments about Liberty being a diploma mill, not a peer institution are hilarious. I have zero knowledge of what Liberty is or isn't from an educational point of view. Colleges are NOTHING MORE than indoctrination chambers with its members getting indoctrinated to think in the same, single filed manner that everyone else does. This from a guy that's attended 6 or 7 colleges and has multiple degrees. Oddly enough, I make good money but from things I learned on Udemy for $10. Once I figured that out, I "went clear". Sports are sports, and that is it.

(12-12-2022 08:48 AM)Big Dub Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 05:18 AM)Herdforlife Wrote:  Let’s be honest our best candidates would be from the AAC, but the only way I see AAC Schools coming to the Sun Belt is if the AAC lost another 2-3 teams to expansion, but here is our biggest candidates from the AAC.
1. ECU: Football exceptional, basketball poor, footprint great, culture great.
2. Memphis: Football exceptional, Basketball next level, footprint great, culture poor, but could add rivalries.
3. USF: Football COULD BE great, Basketball poor, footprint okay, culture poor.
4. Navy: Football exceptional, Basketball okay, footprint good, cultural could be okay
5. Temple: Football could good, Basketball is great, Footprint okay, culture poor
5. UTSA/SMU: Football good, Basketball poor, Footprint poor, Culture poor
6. Tulane/UAB:Football good, Basketball good, Footprint great, culture poor, but could add rivalries

Non AAC Schools:
1. La Tech (like it or not this is probably the best non AAC add): Football good, Basketball okay, great Footprint, great cultural
2. Army (maybe the need a conference with the expanded playoff): Football great, Basketball poor, Footprint poor, Cultural could be good.
3. WKU: Football good, Basketball good, Footprint poor, cultural great.
4. Ohio U: Football good, Basketball great, footprint almost good, cultural great
5. UCONN: Football good, Basketball next level, Footprint poor, culture great
6. Missouri St: Football poor, Basketball good, footprint good, cultural good

I could understand a pitch for any of these schools; after ECU, Memphis and La Tech I think Army would be our best potential add.

As a fan of a historically mediocre to decent (mostly mediocre) football school I take umbrage with the following assertations:

Temple footprint ok? Not even close

Temple football good? What are you even talking about?

Memphis football exceptional? Exceptional??? Because they had a couple of good years? They barely qualify as good, also, looks like they're reverting back to their mean the past 2 seasons.

Navy football exceptional? By what measure? Support is good but performance is meh.

Tulane football good? Tulane has had 3 good years since 1998, the rest have been mediocre to bad (mostly bad)

SMU football good? See Tulane

UCONN football good? not since 2010 buddy


And I'm sure I missed some but you're listing your perception of things, some of it is recency bias so I get it, but facts tell a different story.

Discussing Temple, UCONN, Ohio U and the service academies as potential Sunbelt candidates, in any capacity, is bananas.

You are correct this is just one man’s perspective and just to be clear, I wasn’t basing anything off of performance, rather fanbase sizes and viewership. At that I know my information is probably a little dated, but below was what I was looking at.

1. Temple’s footprint would be no worse than Texas state from the divisional center.
2. Again my exceptional/good assertions are based on attendance and viewership
3. You think discussing the service academies is bananas? Name another G5 the draws 7+ million eyeballs for a game against another G5.
4. I can understand how SunBelt schools wouldn’t be interested in basketball and respect that. I just had a lot of fun in CUSA with Memphis basketball and wouldn’t doubt a Memphis and UCONN add would elevate SunBelt basketball. Temple, Ohio U and Missouri St would help too. Bottom line is there’s money in basketball too.

https://collegefootballnews.com/2020/03/...alysis/amp

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...Attend.pdf

The UConn hypothetical, they'd really stretch the footprint but man would Memphis/UConn be incredible for basketball. If UConn wouldn't stay in the AAC because of basketball though then there's zero chance they'd join the SBC. Memphis of course is a massive long shot too.

(12-09-2022 12:32 PM)everyone Wrote:  Other than the obvious adds like ECU and Memphis, the only other school I would welcome with open arms to the SB is Army. Loved having them in the CUSA. The SB needs eyeballs. The Navy/Army game every year draws more eyeballs than about half of all SB games on linear tv.

If Army joined the AAC, maybe even with Air Force that conference is stronger than the SB. We need to push for Army and with the playoff they should be interested in joining a conference again.

Army was in a conference years ago and it was a disaster. They enjoy being Independent, playing 2 Power 5's every year and some local teams like UMass, UConn, with G5's sprinkled in. Only way I could see Army in a conference is if Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Rutgers, Army, UMass, UConn, and some other northeastern schools formed a new conference.

(12-12-2022 07:24 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(12-09-2022 12:32 PM)everyone Wrote:  Other than the obvious adds like ECU and Memphis, the only other school I would welcome with open arms to the SB is Army. Loved having them in the CUSA. The SB needs eyeballs. The Navy/Army game every year draws more eyeballs than about half of all SB games on linear tv.

If Army joined the AAC, maybe even with Air Force that conference is stronger than the SB. We need to push for Army and with the playoff they should be interested in joining a conference again.

Army was in a conference years ago and it was a disaster. They enjoy being Independent, playing 2 Power 5's every year and some local teams like UMass, UConn, with G5's sprinkled in. Only way I could see Army in a conference is if Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Rutgers, Army, UMass, UConn, and some other northeastern schools formed a new conference.

Lol, some sort of Large Eastern type conference, you say?

One future schedule Army currently has 5 Sun Belt schools lol.

(12-12-2022 08:48 AM)stingingeagle Wrote:  This from a guy that's attended 6 or 7 colleges and has multiple degrees. Oddly enough, I make good money but from things I learned on Udemy for $10. Once I figured that out, I "went clear". Sports are sports, and that is it.

I used freecodecamp to become a developer. Hated the video format of Udemy so I never saw much personal utility using that method. My degree is in music so I tell people all the time it's as easy as ever to make a lot of money without a field specific degree, or a degree at all.

People start circle jerking about their research institutions when they've lost whatever sports related arguments were happening. Nothing more cringe than arguing about academics on a sports message board.

(12-12-2022 09:02 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 08:48 AM)stingingeagle Wrote:  This from a guy that's attended 6 or 7 colleges and has multiple degrees. Oddly enough, I make good money but from things I learned on Udemy for $10. Once I figured that out, I "went clear". Sports are sports, and that is it.

I used freecodecamp to become a developer. Hated the video format of Udemy so I never saw much personal utility using that method. My degree is in music so I tell people all the time it's as easy as ever to make a lot of money without a field specific degree, or a degree at all.

People start circle jerking about their research institutions when they've lost whatever sports related arguments were happening. Nothing more cringe than arguing about academics on a sports message board.

I have a few cousins that have music degrees - both went to Duke. Not sure if it's because of how music is, but their styles of learning were pretty different than mine. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I really like freecodecamp as well. Shoot, even my wife was using it to learn javascript in her spare time just because it looked fun. I am a sql developer. At this point, completing track on freecodecamp and switching to a full fledged developer halfway into my career would be quite difficult. I may need to relearn Python again in the future, so I may give freecodecamp a try. I also like datacamp as well.

With people "quiet quitting" everywhere or flat out not working, companies are recognizing the self-motivated, self-taught individuals at a rapid clip. Better and more rewarding than a lengthy financial prison sentence via student loans (I have none). I'd highly recommend it. Thanks for sharing!

(12-12-2022 04:42 PM)Herdforlife Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 08:48 AM)Big Dub Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 05:18 AM)Herdforlife Wrote:  Let’s be honest our best candidates would be from the AAC, but the only way I see AAC Schools coming to the Sun Belt is if the AAC lost another 2-3 teams to expansion, but here is our biggest candidates from the AAC.
1. ECU: Football exceptional, basketball poor, footprint great, culture great.
2. Memphis: Football exceptional, Basketball next level, footprint great, culture poor, but could add rivalries.
3. USF: Football COULD BE great, Basketball poor, footprint okay, culture poor.
4. Navy: Football exceptional, Basketball okay, footprint good, cultural could be okay
5. Temple: Football could good, Basketball is great, Footprint okay, culture poor
5. UTSA/SMU: Football good, Basketball poor, Footprint poor, Culture poor
6. Tulane/UAB:Football good, Basketball good, Footprint great, culture poor, but could add rivalries

Non AAC Schools:
1. La Tech (like it or not this is probably the best non AAC add): Football good, Basketball okay, great Footprint, great cultural
2. Army (maybe the need a conference with the expanded playoff): Football great, Basketball poor, Footprint poor, Cultural could be good.
3. WKU: Football good, Basketball good, Footprint poor, cultural great.
4. Ohio U: Football good, Basketball great, footprint almost good, cultural great
5. UCONN: Football good, Basketball next level, Footprint poor, culture great
6. Missouri St: Football poor, Basketball good, footprint good, cultural good

I could understand a pitch for any of these schools; after ECU, Memphis and La Tech I think Army would be our best potential add.

As a fan of a historically mediocre to decent (mostly mediocre) football school I take umbrage with the following assertations:

Temple footprint ok? Not even close

Temple football good? What are you even talking about?

Memphis football exceptional? Exceptional??? Because they had a couple of good years? They barely qualify as good, also, looks like they're reverting back to their mean the past 2 seasons.

Navy football exceptional? By what measure? Support is good but performance is meh.

Tulane football good? Tulane has had 3 good years since 1998, the rest have been mediocre to bad (mostly bad)

SMU football good? See Tulane

UCONN football good? not since 2010 buddy


And I'm sure I missed some but you're listing your perception of things, some of it is recency bias so I get it, but facts tell a different story.

Discussing Temple, UCONN, Ohio U and the service academies as potential Sunbelt candidates, in any capacity, is bananas.

You are correct this is just one man’s perspective and just to be clear, I wasn’t basing anything off of performance, rather fanbase sizes and viewership. At that I know my information is probably a little dated, but below was what I was looking at.

1. Temple’s footprint would be no worse than Texas state from the divisional center.
2. Again my exceptional/good assertions are based on attendance and viewership
3. You think discussing the service academies is bananas? Name another G5 the draws 7+ million eyeballs for a game against another G5.
4. I can understand how SunBelt schools wouldn’t be interested in basketball and respect that. I just had a lot of fun in CUSA with Memphis basketball and wouldn’t doubt a Memphis and UCONN add would elevate SunBelt basketball. Temple, Ohio U and Missouri St would help too. Bottom line is there’s money in basketball too.

https://collegefootballnews.com/2020/03/...alysis/amp

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...Attend.pdf

So I understood your use of the term "culture" to mean fan support. The better the culture, the more fan support, makes all the sense in the world to me, so I guess I'm confused what you mean by that term..

What's the closest SBC school to Temple? Their inclusion would be antithetical to the Sunbelt's current strategy, same with Army and Navy, but I will grant you that in the highly unlikely scenario they are interested, available and there is space for them, commissioner wouldn't be doing his due diligence by not exploring that option, but the likelihood of all 3 of those qualifications coming to fruition is so minute, it's kind of bananas to think it is a possibility, but I guess it's fun to talk about.

There is an infinitely better chance that Memphis or ECU holds their noses and joins the SBC at some point than Temple, Navy or Army. Besides, I'd like to know exactly what value Temple provides that would make their location worth it.

If Temple was in Pittsburgh, maaaaybe because they’d be close to Marshall and relatively equidistant to JMU as Philly is. But seriously, no to Temple. They don’t fit the southern football culture that this conference is based on.

You’ve got to start thinking about who’s APPROPRIATE to add, not just who’s out there we can grab. The home run adds right now would be Memphis, ECU, and UAB…but they’re not interested. The second tier would be LaTech and USF, but they have their warts too.

We’ve had this configuration exactly 1 football season…let things settle. We don’t need to add anyone at all.

Some of you have raging realignment ADHD and it shows.

(12-13-2022 10:10 AM)APPdiesel Wrote:  If Temple was in Pittsburgh, maaaaybe because they’d be close to Marshall and relatively equidistant to JMU as Philly is. But seriously, no to Temple. They don’t fit the southern football culture that this conference is based on.

You’ve got to start thinking about who’s APPROPRIATE to add, not just who’s out there we can grab. The home run adds right now would be Memphis, ECU, and UAB…but they’re not interested. The second tier would be LaTech and USF, but they have their warts too.

We’ve had this configuration exactly 1 football season…let things settle. We don’t need to add anyone at all.

Some of you have raging realignment ADHD and it shows.

SQUIRREL!

(12-12-2022 11:18 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 04:42 PM)Herdforlife Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 08:48 AM)Big Dub Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 05:18 AM)Herdforlife Wrote:  Let’s be honest our best candidates would be from the AAC, but the only way I see AAC Schools coming to the Sun Belt is if the AAC lost another 2-3 teams to expansion, but here is our biggest candidates from the AAC.
1. ECU: Football exceptional, basketball poor, footprint great, culture great.
2. Memphis: Football exceptional, Basketball next level, footprint great, culture poor, but could add rivalries.
3. USF: Football COULD BE great, Basketball poor, footprint okay, culture poor.
4. Navy: Football exceptional, Basketball okay, footprint good, cultural could be okay
5. Temple: Football could good, Basketball is great, Footprint okay, culture poor
5. UTSA/SMU: Football good, Basketball poor, Footprint poor, Culture poor
6. Tulane/UAB:Football good, Basketball good, Footprint great, culture poor, but could add rivalries

Non AAC Schools:
1. La Tech (like it or not this is probably the best non AAC add): Football good, Basketball okay, great Footprint, great cultural
2. Army (maybe the need a conference with the expanded playoff): Football great, Basketball poor, Footprint poor, Cultural could be good.
3. WKU: Football good, Basketball good, Footprint poor, cultural great.
4. Ohio U: Football good, Basketball great, footprint almost good, cultural great
5. UCONN: Football good, Basketball next level, Footprint poor, culture great
6. Missouri St: Football poor, Basketball good, footprint good, cultural good

I could understand a pitch for any of these schools; after ECU, Memphis and La Tech I think Army would be our best potential add.

As a fan of a historically mediocre to decent (mostly mediocre) football school I take umbrage with the following assertations:

Temple footprint ok? Not even close

Temple football good? What are you even talking about?

Memphis football exceptional? Exceptional??? Because they had a couple of good years? They barely qualify as good, also, looks like they're reverting back to their mean the past 2 seasons.

Navy football exceptional? By what measure? Support is good but performance is meh.

Tulane football good? Tulane has had 3 good years since 1998, the rest have been mediocre to bad (mostly bad)

SMU football good? See Tulane

UCONN football good? not since 2010 buddy


And I'm sure I missed some but you're listing your perception of things, some of it is recency bias so I get it, but facts tell a different story.

Discussing Temple, UCONN, Ohio U and the service academies as potential Sunbelt candidates, in any capacity, is bananas.

You are correct this is just one man’s perspective and just to be clear, I wasn’t basing anything off of performance, rather fanbase sizes and viewership. At that I know my information is probably a little dated, but below was what I was looking at.

1. Temple’s footprint would be no worse than Texas state from the divisional center.
2. Again my exceptional/good assertions are based on attendance and viewership
3. You think discussing the service academies is bananas? Name another G5 the draws 7+ million eyeballs for a game against another G5.
4. I can understand how SunBelt schools wouldn’t be interested in basketball and respect that. I just had a lot of fun in CUSA with Memphis basketball and wouldn’t doubt a Memphis and UCONN add would elevate SunBelt basketball. Temple, Ohio U and Missouri St would help too. Bottom line is there’s money in basketball too.

https://collegefootballnews.com/2020/03/...alysis/amp

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...Attend.pdf

So I understood your use of the term "culture" to mean fan support. The better the culture, the more fan support, makes all the sense in the world to me, so I guess I'm confused what you mean by that term..

What's the closest SBC school to Temple? Their inclusion would be antithetical to the Sunbelt's current strategy, same with Army and Navy, but I will grant you that in the highly unlikely scenario they are interested, available and there is space for them, commissioner wouldn't be doing his due diligence by not exploring that option, but the likelihood of all 3 of those qualifications coming to fruition is so minute, it's kind of bananas to think it is a possibility, but I guess it's fun to talk about.

There is an infinitely better chance that Memphis or ECU holds their noses and joins the SBC at some point than Temple, Navy or Army. Besides, I'd like to know exactly what value Temple provides that would make their location worth it.

In post #38 I described what factors I thought would be interesting to consider in grading what would be interesting expansion candidates. Are they within the footprint (Location), how big is their football fanbase, how big is their basketball fanbase and being consistent with SunBelt culture. What I consider SunBelt culture is rural programs with great sports history. I don’t think religious universities such as Liberty would gel well with that, but I do think military institutions would.

For the record Temple does expand the footprint, but is less than five hours from JMU and ODU, that’s better than some existing schools. That said I don’t think they’re a top candidate, only listing them to compare what’s out there.

I think the Sun Belt is an awesome conference and needs no change, but sports are just entertainment and I do think it’s fun to talk about changes regardless if anything ever happens.

A lot of this is unlikely, but for anything to happen I’d say the AAC is going to have to lose 2-4 more teams to P5 expansion. That would probably be some combination of Memphis, USF, SMU or Tulane. So ECU could be a possibility for the Sun Belt, but not Memphis. Only chance for Army would be them wanting playoff access. If they were to want us I wouldn’t see why we wouldn’t want to add a Brand like Army even if it meant more travel. Last thing to finish stirring the pot, I think La Tech would be a better add than most teams would give credit.

(12-12-2022 11:18 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  What's the closest SBC school to Temple?

JMU - 269 miles
ODU - 277 miles
Marshall - 518 miles

(12-09-2022 12:32 PM)everyone Wrote:  Other than the obvious adds like ECU and Memphis, the only other school I would welcome with open arms to the SB is Army. Loved having them in the CUSA. The SB needs eyeballs. The Navy/Army game every year draws more eyeballs than about half of all SB games on linear tv.

If Army joined the AAC, maybe even with Air Force that conference is stronger than the SB. We need to push for Army and with the playoff they should be interested in joining a conference again.

no ridiculous travel makes no sense.

Expanding because we’re bored is gluttonous and unsustainable. It’s basically a 7 deadly sin of conference realignment…kinda like inviting an F_U school.

Just wait for the AAC to implode one day, and grab up East Carolina, or South Florida, or Memphis, or SMU. Those should be the only options.

Not Army. Not a CUSA school. Not a MAC school. Not a WAC-ASUN school. Not UWF. Not an FCS school.

(12-09-2022 02:06 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(12-09-2022 01:53 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

(12-09-2022 01:45 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  I'll take a hard pass on Liberty. No way and no how.

I get it...it's been debated ad nauseum.

I happen to think they're gonna be a thorn in our side football wise. I'm only looking at this from the football angle.

Just goes to show there's no clear cut answers.

If the AAC gets gutted, maybe East Carolina comes on board...

However, did anyone see the last realignment going down the way it did?

B1. Agree

B2. Absolutely with open arms. I'm sure those FAU/ECU, CLT/ECU, and UNT/ECU games are going to be titanic struggles. They'll be lucky to draw 15000 fans for those games.

B3. Other than UCF, Houston, BYU, and Cincy going to the B12, no. I knew we were shopping, but my source was pretty tight lipped about where, though. When it was pretty much a done deal but not signed, he/she let me in on the secret.

I disagree. It doesn't really matter who ECU is playing (with notable in-state exceptions) in regards to attendance. If ECU is having a good year and playing well, Pirate fans will show up in force. Are we packing 50,000 in most weeks like we used to? No. But attendance is down across the country.

It's not like ECU has had some awesome schedule every year. We have been in C-USA and the AAC... so, we've had our share of cruddy opponents.

Here are some of our attendance figures from the last decade. I would call these games "stinkers" where there's not much incentive to attend. (But we had good teams, 2019 aside.)

2012: ECU vs UTEP: 47,817
2013: ECU vs FAU: 37,533
2014: ECU vs NCCU: 42,758
2015: ECU vs Towson: 40,712
2019: ECU vs Gardner Webb: 34,118

The day ECU draws sub-30,000 fans to a home game, it is time to scuttle the program. It MIGHT have happened once in the past, but I don't think so. Even during our worst days.

(12-14-2022 10:54 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(12-09-2022 02:06 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(12-09-2022 01:53 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

(12-09-2022 01:45 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  I'll take a hard pass on Liberty. No way and no how.

I get it...it's been debated ad nauseum.

I happen to think they're gonna be a thorn in our side football wise. I'm only looking at this from the football angle.

Just goes to show there's no clear cut answers.

If the AAC gets gutted, maybe East Carolina comes on board...

However, did anyone see the last realignment going down the way it did?

B1. Agree

B2. Absolutely with open arms. I'm sure those FAU/ECU, CLT/ECU, and UNT/ECU games are going to be titanic struggles. They'll be lucky to draw 15000 fans for those games.

B3. Other than UCF, Houston, BYU, and Cincy going to the B12, no. I knew we were shopping, but my source was pretty tight lipped about where, though. When it was pretty much a done deal but not signed, he/she let me in on the secret.

I disagree. It doesn't really matter who ECU is playing (with notable in-state exceptions) in regards to attendance. If ECU is having a good year and playing well, Pirate fans will show up in force. Are we packing 50,000 in most weeks like we used to? No. But attendance is down across the country.

It's not like ECU has had some awesome schedule every year. We have been in C-USA and the AAC... so, we've had our share of cruddy opponents.

Here are some of our attendance figures from the last decade. I would call these games "stinkers" where there's not much incentive to attend. (But we had good teams, 2019 aside.)

2012: ECU vs UTEP: 47,817
2013: ECU vs FAU: 37,533
2014: ECU vs NCCU: 42,758
2015: ECU vs Towson: 40,712
2019: ECU vs Gardner Webb: 34,118

The day ECU draws sub-30,000 fans to a home game, it is time to scuttle the program. It MIGHT have happened once in the past, but I don't think so. Even during our worst days.

ECU always has really good attendance numbers, which is one of the biggest things that makes you guys the type of addition SBC fans would pretty universally love. I do think an SBC East schedule would draw better than a solid chunk of an AAC schedule though, especially if and when the SBC becomes the top rated G5 and starts regularly seeing multiple teams ranked like the AAC currently gets... Hopefully we and some other SBC schools can add some more home and homes with ECU and we'll get more and more real examples to compare with the new AAC. There are already a decent amount before the ESPN deals expire though.

As far as under 30k it happened for Houston, Memphis, and UConn in 2018 then Tulsa in 2019. Pretty crazy how much sustained suckage it took in order to get four games to dip below 30k though.