(11-30-2022 09:57 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 09:55 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I am one of the few very sad to see this. I know the advantages, but loved the extreme high stakes throughout the year. Something will be lost here people won't realize for years.

I abhor the 12 team playoff, too. There’s never been a single year in CFB history where 12 teams are playoff caliber.


But if we’re going to have a 12 team playoff, I’m tired of all the demands the Rose Bowl kept making.

I don't mind the Rose making demands, and I understand their position, I just think the CFP makes more sense without the bowls involved at all.

(11-30-2022 10:48 PM)ThunderDent Wrote:  Certainly would also be easier for USC to make the playoff in the P-12. Just sayin'.

I get the money. But the perennial access is far greater in the PAC.

The Pac has had as many ranked teams as the SEC for a while now. Their bottom isn't great, but they a lot more solid teams than they've had in years.

I disagree about leaving out the bowls. That's part of the history and pageantry of CFB. Without them, it just becomes the NFL lite. With the entire playoff until the NC game at home sites.

Hell, even the NFL (and AFL) stole the word "Bowl" from CFB when they started the first Super Bowl.


Even the early (mean nothing bowls) of today are fine. It's more December FB to whet the appetite for NYD.
Rewards for teams that don't make the playoff. And warm destinations for fans. They don't hurt anyone.
And as long as they sell advertising, they'll exist.

(11-30-2022 10:54 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I believe this is a good thing. College football has long been a beauty pageant. When it was "Polls and Bowls" you had to go undefeated and even if the AP or coaches didn't crown your school national champion you could always yell about bias or just claim a championship like UCF did regardless of the polls. In the era of BCS and the 4 school CFP all we have witnessed is the pooling of resources and talent at a half dozen schools with the best coaches or in the conferences that get pumped the most by the media giants.

With a 12 team playoff, NIL, Pay for Play, and the transfer portal we will see a spreading around of the talent IMO. Does this mean that the SEC and Alabama couldn't possibly be just as dominant, No, but this will give more conferences and schools opportunities to rise to the top. With more chances to get to the same big time games I believe we will see 4 and 5 star kids take more interest in schools not named, Ohio state, Alabama, Clemson, etc. I could be way off but I believe this will be better for the game and generate more interest in games later in the season than we currently see.

Beware though, this also could speed up conference expansion. It could incentivize the networks along with the P2-5 to consolidate brands and separate so they can keep all the money and talent. We'll see...

Regarding the bolded...IMO, it's the rapid growth in media revenue that has been encouraging larger conferences. Schools want to align with the programs that have higher brand value. Larger conferences have more leverage when negotiating with media partners.

The jury is still out on how playoff expansion will impact conference consolidation. If revenue distribution of the CFP windfall is disproportionately tilted towards the P2, then I could see faster consolidation of brands.

love it! I hope they eventually go 8 AQ/8 at large.

I also hope they cut the bowls down to about 10, w/ the 10 best left out P5 and 10 best G5 or 11/9 since 1 G5 will be in the playoffs.

(11-30-2022 11:38 PM)ThunderDent Wrote:  I disagree about leaving out the bowls. That's part of the history and pageantry of CFB. Without them, it just becomes the NFL lite. With the entire playoff until the NC game at home sites.

Hell, even the NFL (and AFL) stole the word "Bowl" from CFB when they started the first Super Bowl.


Even the early (mean nothing bowls) of today are fine. It's more December FB to whet the appetite for NYD.
Rewards for teams that don't make the playoff. And warm destinations for fans. They don't hurt anyone.
And as long as they sell advertising, they'll exist.

The bowls would still exist for teams ranked #13 and lower.

But there's really no reason to have the bowls as part of the playoff. Having the playoff committee and six "major" bowls means there are seven different parties that have to compromise on every issue for the playoffs. It's a lot easier if the playoff committee is just able to decide all playoff issues itself.

If the Rose Bowl held firm, I was 100% ready to loyally follow the Rose Bowl every year and not watch a minute of the CFP. Good news for the CFP as they now gain Rose Bowl fans. I expect the CFP to bestow the highest honor upon the Rose Bowl that it richly deserves.

The Rose Bowl might be wise to go the route of the Citrus Bowl. Take the best teams from the Big 10 and SEC not in the CFP. Would be a downgrade in status but would still be an accomplishment with prestigious teams in their coveted timeslot

(12-01-2022 12:06 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If the Rose Bowl held firm, I was 100% ready to loyally follow the Rose Bowl every year and not watch a minute of the CFP. Good news for the CFP as they now gain Rose Bowl fans. I expect the CFP to bestow the highest honor upon the Rose Bowl that it richly deserves.

So you would watch a #13 vs #14 Rose Bowl (at best) every year but not watch a single minute of the playoffs?

Somehow I'm sure that exactly zero people who make these types of posts are actually serious.

(11-30-2022 11:38 PM)ThunderDent Wrote:  I disagree about leaving out the bowls. That's part of the history and pageantry of CFB. Without them, it just becomes the NFL lite. With the entire playoff until the NC game at home sites.

Hell, even the NFL (and AFL) stole the word "Bowl" from CFB when they started the first Super Bowl.


Even the early (mean nothing bowls) of today are fine. It's more December FB to whet the appetite for NYD.
Rewards for teams that don't make the playoff. And warm destinations for fans. They don't hurt anyone.
And as long as they sell advertising, they'll exist.

I'm not against the bowl system at all. I'm against trying to incorporate the major bowls into the CFP. Let them stick around and pick from the leftover teams that don't make the CFP every year, and let the CFP bid out the QF, SF and Championship games.

(12-01-2022 12:11 AM)Poster Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 12:06 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If the Rose Bowl held firm, I was 100% ready to loyally follow the Rose Bowl every year and not watch a minute of the CFP. Good news for the CFP as they now gain Rose Bowl fans. I expect the CFP to bestow the highest honor upon the Rose Bowl that it richly deserves.

So you would watch a #13 vs #14 Rose Bowl (at best) every year but not watch a single minute of the playoffs?

Somehow I'm sure that exactly zero people who make these types of posts are actually serious.

With the CFP as currently set up, you'd likely end up with something more like 10 v 11, or perhaps 11 v 12. But the danger for the bowls of getting left out is the CFP eventually expanding to 16/24/whatever, at some point all of the ranked teams will be in the CFP every year and any bowls outside of that will struggle to survive.

Some random thoughts on the topics in the thread:

1. The minor bowls will continue to thrive because ESPN and Fox Sports need programming during the holidays and December bowl games fill air time at a reasonable profit margin.

2. The SEC and B1G will continue to expand and dominate. Large fan bases, large alumni populations and wealthy donors create the massive media payouts, and now NIL collectives, that separate the SEC/B1G from the rest. Maybe even some form of pay to play will exist, but only with colleges that can afford it. All of that guarantees the SEC and B1G will attract the best talent and keep their dominant positions over whatever other conference or conferences survive. Colleges that want to be in that world will continue to seek membership in the SEC and B1G even if a playoff berth might be easier to get in their current conference.

3. The ACC schools will decide for themselves whether to go B1G or SEC whenever the conference splits. The SEC and ESPN will not be able to "shelter" teams that want to go to the B1G. The only way to force them into the SEC is to waive the GOR/ACC withdrawal penalties if they want to join the SEC, but fully impose them if they want to go to the B1G. That strategy, by the SEC, ACC and ESPN, would be a "conspiracy in restraint of trade" under federal antitrust laws, exposing them to treble damages (meaning 3x the actual damages suffered by the schools prevented from moving to the B1G) and potential civil and criminal penalties if the DOJ wants to get involved. The ESPN and SEC lawyers are not dumb enough to take that path.

4. At some point, the SEC and B1G will want to control big time college sports and will engineer a split from the NCAA. They will take over the CFP and "March Madness" BB tournament, and dictate the terms for other conferences to participate. Whatever remnants of the PAC, Big 12 and ACC exist at that time will happily join them.

(12-01-2022 01:37 AM)CintiFan Wrote:  Some random thoughts on the topics in the thread:

1. The minor bowls will continue to thrive because ESPN and Fox Sports need programming during the holidays and December bowl games fill air time at a reasonable profit margin.

2. The SEC and B1G will continue to expand and dominate. Large fan bases, large alumni populations and wealthy donors create the massive media payouts, and now NIL collectives, that separate the SEC/B1G from the rest. Maybe even some form of pay to play will exist, but only with colleges that can afford it. All of that guarantees the SEC and B1G will attract the best talent and keep their dominant positions over whatever other conference or conferences survive. Colleges that want to be in that world will continue to seek membership in the SEC and B1G even if a playoff berth might be easier to get in their current conference.

3. The ACC schools will decide for themselves whether to go B1G or SEC whenever the conference splits. The SEC and ESPN will not be able to "shelter" teams that want to go to the B1G. The only way to force them into the SEC is to waive the GOR/ACC withdrawal penalties if they want to join the SEC, but fully impose them if they want to go to the B1G. That strategy, by the SEC, ACC and ESPN, would be a "conspiracy in restraint of trade" under federal antitrust laws, exposing them to treble damages (meaning 3x the actual damages suffered by the schools prevented from moving to the B1G) and potential civil and criminal penalties if the DOJ wants to get involved. The ESPN and SEC lawyers are not dumb enough to take that path.

4. At some point, the SEC and B1G will want to control big time college sports and will engineer a split from the NCAA. They will take over the CFP and "March Madness" BB tournament, and dictate the terms for other conferences to participate. Whatever remnants of the PAC, Big 12 and ACC exist at that time will happily join them.

These are all things I have been pointing out for some time now, and they are likely because it is logical. So I agree. And these things are likely because the SCOTUS rulings have lent their weight to moves in that direction.

As to ACC schools they will choose exactly like Texas and Oklahoma did and for the same reasons. Nobody ever needed to force a decision upon them. They will play games their customers (alumni and donors) want to see, and which are at accessible distances, and with similar social cultures. Why? It is what will hold the most interest, generate the most revenue with the lowest overhead, and is most friendly for non-revenue sports.

Those which are AAU schools are already in the greater academic consortium, AAU, and are already free to associate with, and share grants with, other AAU schools regardless of spots conference affiliation.

When I use the term "shelter" it just means they won't have to go to the Big 10 to earn a competitive media distribution, unless they want to do so. I also know the history of discussions between some of them and the SEC, just as I knew the history and duration of discussions between Texas and the SEC.

Diamond sports will play a part in the decision as well.

Here is an idea I was thinking of for the next CFP contract to allow the Rose Bowl Game to have their desired timeslot each year and feature the B1G or PAC champion.

The contract will be for six years.

The Rose Bowl Game will be a permanent quarterfinal site and will be played around 5:00 PM Eastern on NYD.
The Sugar Bowl and Orange Bowl will rotate with one another as quarterfinal and semifinal sites every other year and will be played at 8:30 PM Eastern on NYD when a quarterfinal site.
The Peach Bowl, Cotton Bowl, and Fiesta Bowl will rotate as the remaining quarterfinal and semifinal sites.

If selected as a top four seed, the higher ranked champion from the either the B1G or PAC will play in the Rose Bowl Game.
If selected as a top four seed, the champion of the SEC will play in the Sugar Bowl in years that it is a quarterfinal site.
If selected as a top four seed, the champion of the ACC will play in the Orange Bowl in years that it is a quarterfinal site.

Example Rotation:

2026-2027: Quarters = Rose, Orange, Cotton, Peach - Semis = Sugar, Fiesta
2027-2028: Quarters = Rose, Sugar, Peach, Fiesta - Semis = Orange, Cotton
2028-2029: Quarters = Rose, Orange, Fiesta, Cotton - Semis = Sugar, Peach
2029-2030: Quarters = Rose, Sugar, Cotton, Peach - Semis = Orange, Fiesta
2030-2031: Quarters = Rose, Orange, Peach, Fiesta - Semis = Sugar, Cotton
2031-2032: Quarters = Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, Cotton - Semis = Orange, Peach

Rose Bowl Game = 6 quarterfinals.
Sugar Bowl and Orange Bowl = 3 quarterfinals and 3 semifinals.
Peach Bowl, Cotton Bowl, and Fiesta Bowl = 4 quarterfinals and 2 semifinals.

You could reduce the number of major bowls involved to just 4 bowls and let them double-host the semi-finals every other year. Based on tradition, I am guessing 3 out of 4 would be Rose, Sugar and Orange. Picking the 4th Bowl would be tough.

As I said in the ultimatum thread, it was already reported that the RB was ready to host two QF games in 24' and 25', given they get the SFs in 23'. There is no framework beyond this.

What it means is two NY6 Bowls are going deep into January right before MLK weekend. I don't think there is time to bid the SFs out separately.

The RB won't get **** beyond 26' IMO. It will have to be a permanent QF and maybe they'll double host 1/3 or 1/4 years. The sites obviously don't matter much post NYD. I'm hoping the Bowls go away after NYD.

Or maybe reduce the number of bowls involved to 5. Let the Rose Bowl, Sugar Bowl and Orange Bowl double-host once every 3 years. Have 2 other bowls act as quarterfinals 1 out of 2 years and semifinals 1 out of 2 years.

Example- in 6 years each Bowl would host the following number of games

Rose
Quarterfinals - 6 times
Double-host Semi-finals - 2 times

Sugar
QF - 6 times
Double-host SF - 2 times

Orange
QF - 6 times
Double-host SF - 2 times

Fiesta
QF -3 times
SF - 3 times

Cotton
QF - 3 times
SF - 3 times

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...5afa08fe59

Quote:The university leaders who make up the CFP board of managers were pushing for a decision from Rose Bowl officials by Wednesday about whether they would amend existing contracts for 2024 and ’25 and allow the playoff to triple in size.

The Rose Bowl is scheduled to have a traditional Pac-12-Big Ten matchup in those seasons. To have a 12-team playoff, the Rose Bowl would need to host a quarterfinal in its traditional and valuable Jan. 1 time slot.

Rose Bowl officials had asked the CFP to guarantee the game would remain on New Year’s Day, starting at 5 p.m. EST, in the new format for 2026 and beyond.

CFP leaders balked.

The original 12-year contract the CFP has with ESPN expires after the 2025-26 season. CFP officials have been unwilling to make any binding commitments about the College Football Playoff beyond 2025.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-and-2025/

Quote:The Rose Bowl had proposed hosting CFP quarterfinals in 2024 and 2025 -- possibly without their traditional Big Ten and Pac-12 partners -- in exchange for keeping its time slot as part of the CFP's new media rights contract starting in 2026, a source close to the situation told CBS Sports. That offer was refused.

Interesting.

The hang-up appears to have been 2026 (and beyond) guarantees.

I wonder what the actual deal (for 2024/5) is now.

Games will be 5pm ET. That's already in the current contract. 26' won't be resolved any time soon. UCLA decision next up...

Eight is Enough! Twelve is too many!