If the season ended today, the women would have the number one seed going into the tournament and the men the number 8 seed.

I'm pleased with the women's start this year. Might even head over for the Vandy game this week. I'm not one that puts a lot of weight into what happens in November, but their performance is much better than last November, so things are looking up!

As much as I hate validating pre-season projections, the men are performing about where those predictions said. Our best hopes are that this start is teaching some lessons, knocking off some rough edges, and hardening us up for conference season.

(11-28-2022 05:59 AM)frankenheimer Wrote:  I'm pleased with the women's start this year. Might even head over for the Vandy game this week. I'm not one that puts a lot of weight into what happens in November, but their performance is much better than last November, so things are looking up!

As much as I hate validating pre-season projections, the men are performing about where those predictions said. Our best hopes are that this start is teaching some lessons, knocking off some rough edges, and hardening us up for conference season.

Obviously football and men’s basketball are train wrecks at this point. Basketball gets some slack given the mess Shay left the program in. Don’t think the damage he did was ever fully comprehended. The football mess is ALL, ALL on Quarles. How’s that for some fun?

(11-28-2022 05:59 AM)frankenheimer Wrote:  I'm pleased with the women's start this year. Might even head over for the Vandy game this week. I'm not one that puts a lot of weight into what happens in November, but their performance is much better than last November, so things are looking up!

As much as I hate validating pre-season projections, the men are performing about where those predictions said. Our best hopes are that this start is teaching some lessons, knocking off some rough edges, and hardening us up for conference season.

I agree. I have seen the women play once in Brooks and they are improved. Not conference championship improved, but much improved. I also thought about going to the Vandy game.

The women's team is doing spectacular things all things considered. The coach should be given a raise and a big thank you. I hope we hire a new AD pretty soon so he can start evaluating our programs. First hire a softball coach. The soccer teams, tennis teams, golf teams and baseball are ok so the first order of business after the softball hire is to thoroughly evaluate the football program where they look at last year's team and the number of returning players and the performance of this year's team. This cannot look good to any incoming athletic director. Then after this season is over he should evaluate our men's basketball program. With the transfer portal there has been plenty of time to totally remake a basketball program. Is there any word on who will be the next athletic director?

I think most of what I read on this board thinks that ETSU is going to return to the Forbes era and the Sanders era by hiring an AD and firing quarles and possibly Oliver.

I will agree that IMO, quarles was a bad hire.

As far as returning to the top of football and basketball its not the same game as it was. The transfer portal and NIL have drastically changed the playing field. The SoCons best players will be transfering. It happened last year and its happening this year. The talent pool and talent level will continue to drop for the SoCon. FCS in the South is slowly dying.

Many on this board were against ETSU attemping to move to a better conference with the idea that ETSU could compete for National Championships. That could only happen in one sport, football and IMO I
don't think ETSU can compete with the top FCS Conference Champs plus ETSU would lose money to play in the FCS playoffs. Universities have to pay the NCAA to play a home game and pay their own expenses for an away game. It's a lose, lose proposition.

Oliver has only 4 players that played meaningful minutes in a D1 game before this season. Nine newcomers to the team. Has already had injuries to 3 of his top 7 players.Bucs have played the preseason favorite in the Sunbelt, lost by 2, P5 Ga, 3 injured, only 2 guards available, lose by 11 etc. I could go on but if you don't know the difference in P5 money games, preseason favorites, veteran teams playing an inexperienced low midmajor team, which is what ETSU is, then so be it.

Some of you talk about getting players thru the portal. Same deal. ETSU will pick from the leftovers. Example. quarles said he had 3 defensive linemen that would be transfering in August. No one came. All transferred to lower FBS schools. Williamson, Monsanto, the Brewer Brothers, all transferred to FBS and if Haynes keeps improving, FBS will come after a 6'8 245 PF.

No AD is going to wave a magic wand and make the SoCon and ETSU revelent. Unfortunately players don't see either as destinations. ETSU will be way down in the pecking order.

As far as a on campus arena. I don't see how a President or BOT could possibly recommend funding a 70-80 million arena when there is no demand for basketball tickets, practically no concerts for small arenas, no plan to upgrade your conference and you have a very nice, totally refurbished FH, with a sweet rental agreement with the City.

There was a demand for football tickets but I don't think after this past season, demand will be as strong. Even so, there needs to be some improvements to the stadium. It's to small. The 2nd phase of the stadium, which was supposed to start as soon as 1st season ended, concessions, restrooms and additional seating were to be added, what happened?

Yes, ETSU can be a SoCon contender but its going to be much harde but condemning the entire Athletic Dept and bad mouthing the players is not the way.

Call the AD, call the President. As far as coaches, they are fair game in my book.

GO BUCS

(11-28-2022 06:15 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  I think most of what I read on this board thinks that ETSU is going to return to the Forbes era and the Sanders era by hiring an AD and firing quarles and possibly Oliver.

I will agree that IMO, quarles was a bad hire.

As far as returning to the top of football and basketball its not the same game as it was. The transfer portal and NIL have drastically changed the playing field. The SoCons best players will be transfering. It happened last year and its happening this year. The talent pool and talent level will continue to drop for the SoCon. FCS in the South is slowly dying.

Many on this board were against ETSU attemping to move to a better conference with the idea that ETSU could compete for National Championships. That could only happen in one sport, football and IMO I
don't think ETSU can compete with the top FCS Conference Champs plus ETSU would lose money to play in the FCS playoffs. Universities have to pay the NCAA to play a home game and pay their own expenses for an away game. It's a lose, lose proposition.

Oliver has only 4 players that played meaningful minutes in a D1 game before this season. Nine newcomers to the team. Has already had injuries to 3 of his top 7 players.Bucs have played the preseason favorite in the Sunbelt, lost by 2, P5 Ga, 3 injured, only 2 guards available, lose by 11 etc. I could go on but if you don't know the difference in P5 money games, preseason favorites, veteran teams playing an inexperienced low midmajor team, which is what ETSU is, then so be it.

Some of you talk about getting players thru the portal. Same deal. ETSU will pick from the leftovers. Example. quarles said he had 3 defensive linemen that would be transfering in August. No one came. All transferred to lower FBS schools. Williamson, Monsanto, the Brewer Brothers, all transferred to FBS and if Haynes keeps improving, FBS will come after a 6'8 245 PF.

No AD is going to wave a magic wand and make the SoCon and ETSU revelent. Unfortunately players don't see either as destinations. ETSU will be way down in the pecking order.

As far as a on campus arena. I don't see how a President or BOT could possibly recommend funding a 70-80 million arena when there is no demand for basketball tickets, practically no concerts for small arenas, no plan to upgrade your conference and you have a very nice, totally refurbished FH, with a sweet rental agreement with the City.

There was a demand for football tickets but I don't think after this past season, demand will be as strong. Even so, there needs to be some improvements to the stadium. It's to small. The 2nd phase of the stadium, which was supposed to start as soon as 1st season ended, concessions, restrooms and additional seating were to be added, what happened?

Yes, ETSU can be a SoCon contender but its going to be much harde but condemning the entire Athletic Dept and bad mouthing the players is not the way.

Call the AD, call the President. As far as coaches, they are fair game in my book.

GO BUCS

Just had this conversation with a friend. Do fans really want a farm team system in college sports? I certainly don't, but I am old and cranky.

Some of this discussion sounds like Marky's old comments about the area. Johnson City is a very nice place to live, as is being discovered by the rest of the country. Compared to our peers, basketball ticket demand is there even in down years. For example, last year we could have sold 1,200 less tickets per game and still been among the best two SoCon teams in attendance. Given the community support, there is absolutely a need for an on-campus basketball arena and we own the perfect piece of land to build one. And with the city currently working with a consultant to determine the future of Freedom Hall, now is the time to be designing and fundraising for such a facility.

I actually think ETSU will be in a very good position for attendance in the coming years compared to other schools. Have you seen how many new people are moving to the area? Johnson City is one of the top destination cities in the country. Some of those people will want to support the local college sports, their kids will go to ETSU, or something similar. I could totally see ETSU growing in support while others struggle.

This stuff about FCS always having the leftovers is no different than how it's been since time began. We've always ended up with the FBS leftovers and we'll always have a few great players transfer. None of that has changed. The real question is, can we compete with our "peers?" We get to decide who those peers are by level of funding and how much local businesses will pony up for NIL deals. People want to talk about gloom and doom, but nothing has changed for us that hasn't also changed for everyone else. The SoCon's best players have always been transferring, if they can. But, there are still only a certain number of FBS spots available.

But you know what? At the end of the day, there's not much I can do about any of that. I support ETSU because that's where I got my degree, and I still will even if FBS has more NIL money than we do. As long as we put a competitive product on the field/court, we'll be fine.

You talk of keeping up with our 'peers' or other SoCon schools.

Wofford, Furman, Samford, VMI, Citadel, etc are not our 'peers'. Dr. Noland has repeatedly stated his goal is to grow ETSU to 18,000 students. None of the SoCon schools have that goal and some cannot achieve any growth at all.

As far as SoCon players, very seldom transferred until the lower lever FBS leagues started forming and the transfer portal, with no sitting out one year before playing and NIL came onto play.

As far as demand for basketball tickets. Selling more than other SoCon echools is no hard feat. I doubt if any school sells 1000 season tickets, possibly Wofford. Most nights a total of 1,500 attendace would bec a average for most SoCon teams. ETSUs attendance was down last year and its down again this year. Johnson City has grown by 30,000 since the OVC and the first time around SoCon and early asuck years. Attendance was way above what it was during the Forbes era. So growth in population has had no effect in growing attendance for basketball.

ETSU is stuck in the middle, can't move up.( don't have the facilities ) and fans would hate moving down but ultimately money will make the decision.

ETSU would probably be better to drop down and play in a league with area colleges. At least they would bring some fans and the Athlectic Budget would be ample, would probably be a perennial winner and no money would be needed for improvements or an on campus arena. Probably wouldn't hsppen, area achools wouldn't approve ETSU because of their size and Athletic Budget.

For a second, just look at the other FCS conferences. The OVC, THE BIG SOUTH and CAA, all have lost their top teams and more teams are looking to leave. The SoCon was the first to lose their top teams. All these confereces are fighting for survival. Money is already an issue and when the P5 stop playing them, which is coming fast, there goes a large chunk of reveue. What then?

As I said, IMO, ETSU is stuck. Their top athletes will be like a revolving door. One year, two at most, then gone.

I will continue to support ETSU by buying tickets but no more money till I see a plan to improve our Athletic Program. All these non D1 basketball games and same for football. Not going to pay extra for low level games
You can put all the lipstick on the pig, but its still a pig.

(11-29-2022 10:24 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  You talk of keeping up with our 'peers' or other SoCon schools.

Wofford, Furman, Samford, VMI, Citadel, etc are not our 'peers'. Dr. Noland has repeatedly stated his goal is to grow ETSU to 18,000 students. None of the SoCon schools have that goal and some cannot achieve any growth at all.

As far as SoCon players, very seldom transferred until the lower lever FBS leagues started forming and the transfer portal, with no sitting out one year before playing and NIL came onto play.

As far as demand for basketball tickets. Selling more than other SoCon echools is no hard feat. I doubt if any school sells 1000 season tickets, possibly Wofford. Most nights a total of 1,500 attendace would bec a average for most SoCon teams. ETSUs attendance was down last year and its down again this year. Johnson City has grown by 30,000 since the OVC and the first time around SoCon and early asuck years. Attendance was way above what it was during the Forbes era. So growth in population has had no effect in growing attendance for basketball.

ETSU is stuck in the middle, can't move up.( don't have the facilities ) and fans would hate moving down but ultimately money will make the decision.

ETSU would probably be better to drop down and play in a league with area colleges. At least they would bring some fans and the Athlectic Budget would be ample, would probably be a perennial winner and no money would be needed for improvements or an on campus arena. Probably wouldn't hsppen, area achools wouldn't approve ETSU because of their size and Athletic Budget.

For a second, just look at the other FCS conferences. The OVC, THE BIG SOUTH and CAA, all have lost their top teams and more teams are looking to leave. The SoCon was the first to lose their top teams. All these confereces are fighting for survival. Money is already an issue and when the P5 stop playing them, which is coming fast, there goes a large chunk of reveue. What then?

As I said, IMO, ETSU is stuck. Their top athletes will be like a revolving door. One year, two at most, then gone.

I will continue to support ETSU by buying tickets but no more money till I see a plan to improve our Athletic Program. All these non D1 basketball games and same for football. Not going to pay extra for low level games
You can put all the lipstick on the pig, but its still a pig.

What do we do to improve this situation?

The NIL and portal will eventually destroy conferences such as the SoCon, OVC, and others similar in size. IMO, the only way to save athletics on this level is to form regional conferences similar to those on the high school level. A three-tier system in D1 would be a start. Group schools within a radius of 250 miles, which allows fans greater opportunity to attend games that could soon turn into rivalries. With the P5 schools creating their own mega-conferences, other leagues such as the Mid-American, C-USA, and Conference-USA, need a place to flourish. We have an abundance of schools that would fit into this regional construct. Most certainly this would put more emphasis on recruiting the regional athlete where smaller NIL deals may follow. I hear the term ''TV market'' thrown around to justify dreams of moving up to larger conferences, but let's be real, with streaming, the fans will pick which games they wish to watch no matter the location. Some schools might join as basketball participants only. For example, Asheville would be the center of a conference and all schools must fall into a 250-mile radius of that location. The dream of growing into a larger program has all but vanished with the addition of the new NCAA NIL program, and transfer policies. The NCAA needs a major overhaul.

ETSU isn't going to get to 18,000 students by 2026, and I doubt that anyone at the university believes that this is realistic.

I am happy to be in the SoCon and my goal for the athletic department is to have the overall best athletics department across all sports (there is an annual award for that) in the conference and to always be competing to win the championship in basketball.

The area where I think most of us agree on is the embarrassment of playing all of these non-D1 teams in basketball and football. Football should basically never play a non-D1 team, and the only time basketball should do so is for exhibition games. A perfect example is today's game against Mars Hill. I'd rather not have a game today than to be playing Mars Hill in a regular season game.

(11-30-2022 08:00 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  ETSU isn't going to get to 18,000 students by 2026, and I doubt that anyone at the university believes that this is realistic.

I am happy to be in the SoCon and my goal for the athletic department is to have the overall best athletics department across all sports (there is an annual award for that) in the conference and to always be competing to win the championship in basketball.

The area where I think most of us agree on is the embarrassment of playing all of these non-D1 teams in basketball and football. Football should basically never play a non-D1 team, and the only time basketball should do so is for exhibition games. A perfect example is today's game against Mars Hill. I'd rather not have a game today than to be playing Mars Hill in a regular season game.

This one could turn into the embarrassment of the decade for ETSU. Right now, ETSU should be thankful for VMI in conference and for any kind of victory outside conference - forget levels, divisions, et al. VMI kept us out of dead last in football and the same could be on the way in basketball.
Other tha PERHAPS VMI, who in conference would we be favored over?

(11-30-2022 08:36 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 08:00 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  ETSU isn't going to get to 18,000 students by 2026, and I doubt that anyone at the university believes that this is realistic.

I am happy to be in the SoCon and my goal for the athletic department is to have the overall best athletics department across all sports (there is an annual award for that) in the conference and to always be competing to win the championship in basketball.

The area where I think most of us agree on is the embarrassment of playing all of these non-D1 teams in basketball and football. Football should basically never play a non-D1 team, and the only time basketball should do so is for exhibition games. A perfect example is today's game against Mars Hill. I'd rather not have a game today than to be playing Mars Hill in a regular season game.

This one could turn into the embarrassment of the decade for ETSU. Right now, ETSU should be thankful for VMI in conference and for any kind of victory outside conference - forget levels, divisions, et al. VMI kept us out of dead last in football and the same could be on the way in basketball.
Other tha PERHAPS VMI, who in conference would we be favored over?

I expect us to finish middle of the pack in the basketball conference this season. I don't think we are as bad as you are making it out to be.

Remember that we are not unique in this situation. Most mid-majors are in a similar situation. Football and basketball have shown they can be very competitive given the right coaches. We had a bad AD that set everything back. The portal not only takes away but it gives championship winning talent also. We and WCU, T Tech, Austin Peay, UT-Chatt, etc. are in the same boat in athletics. Let us be careful to watch peer schools and do similarly to what they do and most importantly do NOT do what they do not do.

Yeah, I don't see things quite as dire as most on this board.

First, the transfer portal can taketh away, but it can also provide. Case in point is our basketball team, made up mostly of transfers. I remember distinctly several posts on this board last year accusing Oliver of not using the portal, yet, he used it a lot. If he can get the team to play as a team, I think the team can still have a successful year, despite these 3 straight losses.

Football is the same way. I've never seen a message board with such short memories. Remember the 2019 football season? I guess not. Randy and the Bucs went 3-9. What did they do the following year? Quarterfinals of the FCS playoffs, won the league. I seem to remember many on here calling for his head in '19 too. Football can turn on a dime. I hope that Quarles uses the transfer portal, because I think there are plenty of good athletes in there that could help us on both sides of the ball next year. There are plenty of FBS players trying to find a place to play that we were not in the running for when those kids came out of high school. Also, everyone has pretty much ignored the fact we fired the OC Adam Neugebauer yesterday. So changes could be afoot, and I wouldn't just assume the team will suck. On the other hand, we could have had Tyler Roehl as our head coach, which sounds a lot better than Quarles. Roehl is the OC for ND State, and was a finalist for the head coaching job. Of course Scott went with someone he already knew. Regardless, I'm willing to have an ounce of patience for Quarles.I'm not a UT fan, after all. Lol. Firing him right now would be ignorant, and would set up a culture of "win now or else," and it would be awfully difficult to bring in a coach with that kind of set up at any level.

As far as long-term for athletics, we could easily expand the football stadium and move up to FBS when the time is right. Freedom Hall as is would be fine to go to the SunBelt. Travel would absolutely suck if we do that, we the exception of App State. However, the SoCon is not such a bad place to be for now, though, because 1) it's stable in terms of membership; 2) Travel isn't too expensive, and 3) it's a pretty solid league in its own right in both football & basketball, although we haven't been a part of that so far this year. In football, the league qualified two for the FCS playoffs, so that's good, In basketball, at least with the men, there are several teams that no one wants to play. Wofford, who isn't all that great, took LSU to the wire, and Furman whipped South Carolina by 19. Mercer played Florida State pretty tough, and there are other examples. So, I guess I don't see how the SoCon is "suffering" so much.

Finally, how about the mental toughness of our women's team? This is a team the coach didn't even recruit, and a staff that the coach had no role in choosing, yet they're sitting 6-2. They play hellish defense, they rebound, and they play hard as hell. They play much better as a team than the guys, and clearly, they're mentally tougher and have more mental intensity than the guys do. Basketball is all about mental toughness and intensity, doing the same thing over & over again the same way, and playing together. The guys aren't showing much of that at the moment.

I know I'm the pollyanna wide-eyed optimist here, so let me have it.

(11-30-2022 09:03 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote:  Yeah, I don't see things quite as dire as most on this board.

First, the transfer portal can taketh away, but it can also provide. Case in point is our basketball team, made up mostly of transfers. I remember distinctly several posts on this board last year accusing Oliver of not using the portal, yet, he used it a lot. If he can get the team to play as a team, I think the team can still have a successful year, despite these 3 straight losses.

Football is the same way. I've never seen a message board with such short memories. Remember the 2019 football season? I guess not. Randy and the Bucs went 3-9. What did they do the following year? Quarterfinals of the FCS playoffs, won the league. I seem to remember many on here calling for his head in '19 too. Football can turn on a dime. I hope that Quarles uses the transfer portal, because I think there are plenty of good athletes in there that could help us on both sides of the ball next year. There are plenty of FBS players trying to find a place to play that we were not in the running for when those kids came out of high school. Also, everyone has pretty much ignored the fact we fired the OC Adam Neugebauer yesterday. So changes could be afoot, and I wouldn't just assume the team will suck. On the other hand, we could have had Tyler Roehl as our head coach, which sounds a lot better than Quarles. Roehl is the OC for ND State, and was a finalist for the head coaching job. Of course Scott went with someone he already knew. Regardless, I'm willing to have an ounce of patience for Quarles.I'm not a UT fan, after all. Lol. Firing him right now would be ignorant, and would set up a culture of "win now or else," and it would be awfully difficult to bring in a coach with that kind of set up at any level.

As far as long-term for athletics, we could easily expand the football stadium and move up to FBS when the time is right. Freedom Hall as is would be fine to go to the SunBelt. Travel would absolutely suck if we do that, we the exception of App State. However, the SoCon is not such a bad place to be for now, though, because 1) it's stable in terms of membership; 2) Travel isn't too expensive, and 3) it's a pretty solid league in its own right in both football & basketball, although we haven't been a part of that so far this year. In football, the league qualified two for the FCS playoffs, so that's good, In basketball, at least with the men, there are several teams that no one wants to play. Wofford, who isn't all that great, took LSU to the wire, and Furman whipped South Carolina by 19. Mercer played Florida State pretty tough, and there are other examples. So, I guess I don't see how the SoCon is "suffering" so much.

Finally, how about the mental toughness of our women's team? This is a team the coach didn't even recruit, and a staff that the coach had no role in choosing, yet they're sitting 6-2. They play hellish defense, they rebound, and they play hard as hell. They play much better as a team than the guys, and clearly, they're mentally tougher and have more mental intensity than the guys do. Basketball is all about mental toughness and intensity, doing the same thing over & over again the same way, and playing together. The guys aren't showing much of that at the moment.

I know I'm the pollyanna wide-eyed optimist here, so let me have it.

Totally agree with everything. Again, we are not unique in our situation.

(11-30-2022 09:03 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote:  Yeah, I don't see things quite as dire as most on this board.

First, the transfer portal can taketh away, but it can also provide. Case in point is our basketball team, made up mostly of transfers. I remember distinctly several posts on this board last year accusing Oliver of not using the portal, yet, he used it a lot. If he can get the team to play as a team, I think the team can still have a successful year, despite these 3 straight losses.

Pretty good post. Remember................Forbes made it clear, more than once, referencing the portal (paraphrasing), that "supply exceeds demand". Yes, it sure sucks to lose a Monsanto or Bo Hodges, the brothers, or even a Daivien Williamson (altho most of you didn't see that at the time), but there are always gonna be good players available. The key, which Forbes was a Jedi master at, is finding the complementary pieces and blending those pieces into a whole. Oliver didn't quite have the time last year to be able to fully 'filter' the choices (altho I still criticize him for his overly-optimistic statements about those incoming players). My eyes tell me he's done a better job this year, and if Jordan King had been even close to shooting this season what he did last year, right now we'd have two more victories and two less defeats. But yes, we need another reliable shooter. Can Tipler grow into that role? Who knows? For one game, Justice Smith seemed just all too good to be true as that extra weapon. Was that a true flash-in-the-pan situation, or can he repeat that a few more times? Who knows? Strothers prefers to deal right now, but don't be shocked if he 'grows' into a shooter by next year. Not a prediction; just sayin'.

NOT TO MENTION.........................with Oliver's son coming next year...............he'll have one important piece (assuming things go the way they 'should', which we can never know for sure) already in place, and if one thinks he hasn't already been long-scheming how to arrange the hopefully-improved pieces next season, you've missed the big picture. To phrase it another way.........."talent attracts talent". But in no way am I counting any chickens yet. No sirree.

[You are leaving out some very important differences between Forbes time and the current times, the rise of lower level FBS conferences, transfer [/align]portal and the NIL. He didn't have to deal with any of those major changes in recriuting and maintaing players.