Heather Dinich of ESPN reports on yesterday's CFP management committee meeting at Big Ten HQ.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...eam-format

Fox (ie the B1G) is not going to let ESPN have an expanded playoff early.

You might as well just forget about it until 2026.

I do think this is a positive in a way--by trying to make it happen for 2024 and/or 2025, The Powers That Be are basically doing a dress rehearsal for arranging the setup for 2026.

How are we splitting the tickets/gate revenue for the on-campus games?
Are there enough hotel rooms?
What are we doing with the QF/SF rotation?
Rose Bowl when it's not a QF
They won't solve all of these problems in the next couple of months, but to paraphrase old Donald Rumsfeld, they're turning unkonwn unknowns into known unknowns.

(09-28-2022 07:26 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  Fox (ie the B1G) is not going to let ESPN have an expanded playoff early.

You might as well just forget about it until 2026.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true.

ESPN has the CFP rights until 2026 no matter what. That’s simply the status quo. I don’t think anyone reasonably believes that FOX or another network partner could get any expanded playoff games prior to 2026.

Now, if you want to say that there might be issues with getting ESPN to pay more for an expanded playoff in 2024 and 2025 without getting an extension for beyond that timeframe, then yes, that could be an impediment for the Big Ten and frankly SEC (since as much as there’s a deep relationship between ESPN and the SEC, the SEC still wants to maximize the revenue from this playoff going to the open market, too).

Sounds like they are really pushing to open the season early and have 2 December playoff rounds.

Anyway we can have a hybrid model where the big rivalries are still played Thanksgiving weekend AND the G5 and one or two P5 play their CCGs that week too?

(09-28-2022 07:41 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 07:26 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  Fox (ie the B1G) is not going to let ESPN have an expanded playoff early.

You might as well just forget about it until 2026.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true.

ESPN has the CFP rights until 2026 no matter what. That’s simply the status quo. I don’t think anyone reasonably believes that FOX or another network partner could get any expanded playoff games prior to 2026.

I wouldn't guarantee that. If ESPN is nervous about the price tag for the full 6+6 11 game CFP, and wants to share the cost with Fox (or whoever), it's very possible that they segment the 4 new games into 2 packages.

If ESPN doesn't want to share the 6+6 package, they're not going to agree to early expansion separate from a new CFP contract. Early expansion is one of ESPN's carrots to get FBS to sign early with ESPN.

Quote:Now, if you want to say that there might be issues with getting ESPN to pay more for an expanded playoff in 2024 and 2025 without getting an extension for beyond that timeframe, then yes, that could be an impediment for the Big Ten and frankly SEC (since as much as there’s a deep relationship between ESPN and the SEC, the SEC still wants to maximize the revenue from this playoff going to the open market, too).

That's what we mean. IF anything is signed early enough for 2024, it's going to include an extension of ESPN's current contract.

(09-28-2022 07:49 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Sounds like they are really pushing to open the season early and have 2 December playoff rounds.

Anyway we can have a hybrid model where the big rivalries are still played Thanksgiving weekend AND the G5 and one or two P5 play their CCGs that week too?

Well, *somebody* is pushing that. But it's not in the interests of the Big Ten or SEC, so I don't think it's going anywhere. (Not to mention tearing up the just-signed Big Ten TV contracts that include a bunch of OTA Thanksgiving Weekend games.)

(09-28-2022 08:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 07:49 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Sounds like they are really pushing to open the season early and have 2 December playoff rounds.

Anyway we can have a hybrid model where the big rivalries are still played Thanksgiving weekend AND the G5 and one or two P5 play their CCGs that week too?

Well, *somebody* is pushing that. But it's not in the interests of the Big Ten or SEC, so I don't think it's going anywhere. (Not to mention tearing up the just-signed Big Ten TV contracts that include a bunch of OTA Thanksgiving Weekend games.)

There may be a hybrid solution where the ACC/B1G/SEC keep their current schedule but whose champions cannot host first-round games a week later.

First round games are hosted by 4 teams (including at least 2 champions) whose seasons ended after Thanksgiving weekend (12+ day lead time). Some rule will allow certain of these champions to host quarterfinals instead.

(09-28-2022 07:49 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Sounds like they are really pushing to open the season early and have 2 December playoff rounds.

Anyway we can have a hybrid model where the big rivalries are still played Thanksgiving weekend AND the G5 and one or two P5 play their CCGs that week too?

It doesn’t sound like that at at all. No one outside of message board land has seriously talked about two December playoff rounds. Remember that the exact same NFL conflict problems arise the week of Christmas because they’ve taken the Saturday nearest that date, too. TV ratings are higher in January (meaning the TV networks will pay more), so this playoff was always going to be an extension further into January.

(09-28-2022 08:39 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 07:49 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Sounds like they are really pushing to open the season early and have 2 December playoff rounds.

It doesn’t sound like that at at all. No one outside of message board land has seriously talked about two December playoff rounds. Remember that the exact same NFL conflict problems arise the week of Christmas because they’ve taken the Saturday nearest that date, too. TV ratings are higher in January (meaning the TV networks will pay more), so this playoff was always going to be an extension further into January.

From the linked article:

Quote:Hancock said the commissioners continued to discuss the possibility of moving the entire season to Week 0 to accommodate an expanded field, but there are still questions about the feasibility of implementing such a sweeping change so quickly. An earlier start would move the conference championship games to Thanksgiving weekend.

I can't imagine they're going to go through the trouble of moving Rivalry Week and conference championship games if they aren't planning on multiple playoff rounds in December.

(09-28-2022 08:31 AM)Crayton Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 08:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 07:49 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Sounds like they are really pushing to open the season early and have 2 December playoff rounds.

Anyway we can have a hybrid model where the big rivalries are still played Thanksgiving weekend AND the G5 and one or two P5 play their CCGs that week too?

Well, *somebody* is pushing that. But it's not in the interests of the Big Ten or SEC, so I don't think it's going anywhere. (Not to mention tearing up the just-signed Big Ten TV contracts that include a bunch of OTA Thanksgiving Weekend games.)

There may be a hybrid solution where the ACC/B1G/SEC keep their current schedule but whose champions cannot host first-round games a week later.

First round games are hosted by 4 teams (including at least 2 champions) whose seasons ended after Thanksgiving weekend (12+ day lead time). Some rule will allow certain of these champions to host quarterfinals instead.

K.I.S.S.

Keep It Simple Stupid.

What the TV networks want is essentially something like the NCAA Tournament: a big selection show where everyone is chosen and a nice clean logical easy to follow bracket.

As hard core sports fans, we’re all obsessed with exceptions to the general rule and think that the world wants complex systems that can change year-to-year to address those exceptions.

The reality is that the world values simplicity. If you can’t explain a playoff system to a fourth grader, then it’s too complicated.

Plus, why on Earth would the Big Ten and SEC want their own CCGs to be competing for attention with playoff games? That makes no sense for those leagues.

We have a straight-forward format proposed. Maybe the entire season gets pushed back a week and all CCGs end up on Thanksgiving weekend (although I personally doubt it), but I can’t see first playoff games being played on separate weeks.

(09-28-2022 07:40 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I do think this is a positive in a way--by trying to make it happen for 2024 and/or 2025, The Powers That Be are basically doing a dress rehearsal for arranging the setup for 2026.

How are we splitting the tickets/gate revenue for the on-campus games?
Are there enough hotel rooms?
What are we doing with the QF/SF rotation?
Rose Bowl when it's not a QF
They won't solve all of these problems in the next couple of months, but to paraphrase old Donald Rumsfeld, they're turning unkonwn unknowns into known unknowns.

I agree. There do seem to be a LOT of details to iron out, and so might as well get started on it now, so that 2026 can begin without a hitch.

Obviously another thing that must be worked out is the exclusivity of the Army-Navy game and its contract with CBS.

I imagine this game would be moved to an exclusive time slot, perhaps a noon kickoff on the Friday or Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend.

(09-28-2022 09:25 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Obviously another thing that must be worked out is the exclusivity of the Army-Navy game and its contract with CBS.

I imagine this game would be moved to an exclusive time slot, perhaps a noon kickoff on the Friday or Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend.

Not really. Nobody who matters cares about protecting the Army-Navy game. CBS has no stroke, Army and NAvy have no stroke.

"The strong do what they will, the weak will suffer what they must"

(09-28-2022 09:25 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Obviously another thing that must be worked out is the exclusivity of the Army-Navy game and its contract with CBS.

I imagine this game would be moved to an exclusive time slot, perhaps a noon kickoff on the Friday or Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend.

FWIW, If I was on the CFP committee, I would ignore that as in my view something that isn't within the scope of the committee's work. To me, when Army and Navy schedule their game is up to them, but there's no need for the CFP to address that.

Just MO.

(09-28-2022 09:01 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 08:39 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 07:49 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Sounds like they are really pushing to open the season early and have 2 December playoff rounds.

It doesn’t sound like that at at all. No one outside of message board land has seriously talked about two December playoff rounds. Remember that the exact same NFL conflict problems arise the week of Christmas because they’ve taken the Saturday nearest that date, too. TV ratings are higher in January (meaning the TV networks will pay more), so this playoff was always going to be an extension further into January.

From the linked article:

Quote:Hancock said the commissioners continued to discuss the possibility of moving the entire season to Week 0 to accommodate an expanded field, but there are still questions about the feasibility of implementing such a sweeping change so quickly. An earlier start would move the conference championship games to Thanksgiving weekend.

I can't imagine they're going to go through the trouble of moving Rivalry Week and conference championship games if they aren't planning on multiple playoff rounds in December.

Right. Why move CCGs earlier unless you are doing so to accommodate an additional playoff round.

(09-28-2022 09:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Plus, why on Earth would the Big Ten and SEC want their own CCGs to be competing for attention with playoff games? That makes no sense for those leagues.

We have a straight-forward format proposed. Maybe the entire season gets pushed back a week and all CCGs end up on Thanksgiving weekend (although I personally doubt it), but I can’t see first playoff games being played on separate weeks.

You wouldn't have the SECCG played on the same weekend as playoffs; nor would you have playoff games on separate weeks. It'd be something like:

Thanksgiving: Keep most of the big rivalry games // Mid+Lower conferences' games consolidated to single Championship Games
1st December: CCGs for ACC & SEC & B1G; maybe move Army-Navy here too.
2nd December: 4 first round games, none of which are hosted by teams who played last week
3rd/4th December: 4 quarterfinals
New Years: 2 semifinals

Th playoff itself would be near identical to the proposed. The exception would be teams like Georgia who lost the SECCG and would then have to play a playoff game on the road.

You don't have the season length jumping three weeks toward February. You don't sacrifice the meat of Thanksgiving weekend. You have a model that accommodates Army-Navy in the case where either is playoff eligible. You also maximize your December revenue (instead of 10 CCGs cannibalizing's each other or leaving fallow weekends).

(09-28-2022 09:39 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Th playoff itself would be near identical to the proposed. The exception would be teams like Georgia who lost the SECCG and would then have to play a playoff game on the road.

You don't have the season length jumping three weeks toward February. You don't sacrifice the meat of Thanksgiving weekend. You have a model that accommodates Army-Navy in the case where either is playoff eligible. You also maximize your December revenue (instead of 10 CCGs cannibalizing's each other or leaving fallow weekends).

You can't ask Georgia, one of the top four teams in football, to play on the road in a round of 12.

Few thoughts:

1. I don't think moving up a week means 2 rounds in December. I think more likely it would mean that hosting home games late into December has TV issues with both the NFL and cold weather for northern teams. Ideally, they would like to move up the season a week so they can use the current week of Army/Navy for the 1st round of home games, which would put it a bit warmer than a week later and more importantly avoid the NFL on a Saturday. They could then use the New Years Day bowls as quarterfinals. The issue with this is of course a lot of existing contracts. The conference championship games might be less valuable other weekends. The TV contracts assume some games Thanksgiving and Black Friday too (including the new Big Ten one). Moving up means voiding those parts which require negotiations and compensation in some matter or another. Maybe extra weekday games the current week 0 (no NFL competition there), but I doubt that makes it up fully. Regardless, it is major complication.

2. I could see the first round on networks beside ESPN. If that is really a sticking point, I could see ESPN accepting that as long as they keep all the existing contracts with bowls (which means they get all the quarterfinals, semifinals, and championship). They still gain on the deal and would be guaranteed most of the first year of the playoff (which will likely be its highest rated year given the novelty factor).

(09-28-2022 09:25 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Obviously another thing that must be worked out is the exclusivity of the Army-Navy game and its contract with CBS.

I imagine this game would be moved to an exclusive time slot, perhaps a noon kickoff on the Friday or Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend.

They should move the Army-Navy game to Veteran's Day.

(09-28-2022 09:39 AM)Crayton Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 09:01 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 08:39 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 07:49 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Sounds like they are really pushing to open the season early and have 2 December playoff rounds.

It doesn’t sound like that at at all. No one outside of message board land has seriously talked about two December playoff rounds. Remember that the exact same NFL conflict problems arise the week of Christmas because they’ve taken the Saturday nearest that date, too. TV ratings are higher in January (meaning the TV networks will pay more), so this playoff was always going to be an extension further into January.

From the linked article:

Quote:Hancock said the commissioners continued to discuss the possibility of moving the entire season to Week 0 to accommodate an expanded field, but there are still questions about the feasibility of implementing such a sweeping change so quickly. An earlier start would move the conference championship games to Thanksgiving weekend.

I can't imagine they're going to go through the trouble of moving Rivalry Week and conference championship games if they aren't planning on multiple playoff rounds in December.

Right. Why move CCGs earlier unless you are doing so to accommodate an additional playoff round.

(09-28-2022 09:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Plus, why on Earth would the Big Ten and SEC want their own CCGs to be competing for attention with playoff games? That makes no sense for those leagues.

We have a straight-forward format proposed. Maybe the entire season gets pushed back a week and all CCGs end up on Thanksgiving weekend (although I personally doubt it), but I can’t see first playoff games being played on separate weeks.

You wouldn't have the SECCG played on the same weekend as playoffs; nor would you have playoff games on separate weeks. It'd be something like:

Thanksgiving: Keep most of the big rivalry games // Mid+Lower conferences' games consolidated to single Championship Games
1st December: CCGs for ACC & SEC & B1G; maybe move Army-Navy here too.
2nd December: 4 first round games, none of which are hosted by teams who played last week
3rd/4th December: 4 quarterfinals
New Years: 2 semifinals

Th playoff itself would be near identical to the proposed. The exception would be teams like Georgia who lost the SECCG and would then have to play a playoff game on the road.

You don't have the season length jumping three weeks toward February. You don't sacrifice the meat of Thanksgiving weekend. You have a model that accommodates Army-Navy in the case where either is playoff eligible. You also maximize your December revenue (instead of 10 CCGs cannibalizing's each other or leaving fallow weekends).

Don't touch Thanksgiving. It's a huge travel weekend. Much easier and less expensive for fans to schedule short-notice travel for CCGs the following week.

And, you can't arbitrarily draw a line for 'big' rivalry games. Silly to move UCF-USF, Arizona-Arizona State, Oregon-Oregon State, Kansas-Kansas State, etc. away from Thanksgiving weekend.