All this conference expansion and so many on here have delusions of grandeur. Problem is we are what we are. Aside from a tenuous connection to Chicago, neither we -- or most anyone in the MAC -- are particularly attractive. Note the story link below and accept the reality that neither we or the MAC can check off too many of the boxes. For that reason, I simply want us to be the best in the MAC and continue accumulating boneyard victories.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/college-foo...34169.html

Trash post.

Be better. We should all, always, want to be better.

I mean giving everyone a trophy screwed a lot of people up. It isn’t a crime to want to be better, but some generations are acting like It is.

“We shouldn’t try because we might fail, or someone might say ‘no.’” Oh…the horror.

(08-01-2022 10:35 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:  All this conference expansion and so many on here have delusions of grandeur. Problem is we are what we are. Aside from a tenuous connection to Chicago, neither we -- or most anyone in the MAC -- are particularly attractive. Note the story link below and accept the reality that neither we or the MAC can check off too many of the boxes. For that reason, I simply want us to be the best in the MAC and continue accumulating boneyard victories.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/college-foo...34169.html

I agree with you that we are not going the most attractive to move up in the conference expansion.

But that does not mean that the MAC should not expand 2 bring in a couple of Mid-Majors that will make the conference more competitive.

(08-01-2022 11:00 AM)Schaefer Beer Wrote:  

(08-01-2022 10:35 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:  All this conference expansion and so many on here have delusions of grandeur. Problem is we are what we are. Aside from a tenuous connection to Chicago, neither we -- or most anyone in the MAC -- are particularly attractive. Note the story link below and accept the reality that neither we or the MAC can check off too many of the boxes. For that reason, I simply want us to be the best in the MAC and continue accumulating boneyard victories.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/college-foo...34169.html

I agree with you that we are not going the most attractive to move up in the conference expansion.

But that does not mean that the MAC should not expand 2 bring in a couple of Mid-Majors that will make the conference more competitive.

Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee State would have been good in my opinion. Too bad MTSU wouldn't go for it. I am not sure how we should view them if they ever want to get in, which it my opinion may happen.

(08-01-2022 10:35 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:  All this conference expansion and so many on here have delusions of grandeur. Problem is we are what we are. Aside from a tenuous connection to Chicago, neither we -- or most anyone in the MAC -- are particularly attractive. Note the story link below and accept the reality that neither we or the MAC can check off too many of the boxes. For that reason, I simply want us to be the best in the MAC and continue accumulating boneyard victories.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/college-foo...34169.html

There are two talking points here; Valuing NIU and valuing the MAC. The MAC has more stability with better growth opportunity. It basically has a strong hold on the Midwest as the B1G’s little brother. The AAC took a big hit while the sunbelt and CUSA have improved. The G5 parity is better than the P5’s. With just a couple big moves the MAC is right there at the top(WKU, NDSU, MTSU). NIU on the other hand is somewhat hamstrung by the economics tied to its attendance. It feels as if NIU is treading water and I’m not sure how to breakout of that stigma. It’s on-field product is top G5 caliber while it’s books are near the bottom. NIU won’t elevate because it’s in a position to. It will have to elevate BECAUSE it get’s the helping hand of a bigger conference and the corresponding boost of revenue that brings.

(08-01-2022 10:44 AM)BigChilla Wrote:  Trash post.

Be better. We should all, always, want to be better.

I mean giving everyone a trophy screwed a lot of people up. It isn’t a crime to want to be better, but some generations are acting like It is.

“We shouldn’t try because we might fail, or someone might say ‘no.’” Oh…the horror.

Agree with the above, while I appreciate uiniu57's post, it's no time to grant ourselves permission to stop wanting growth or the next step. We may not be #1 on the might-be-elevated to P5 list, but we're definitely a more attractive candidate than many, winning more than our fare share of games on the edge of a big media market (and maybe moving up isn't a do or die as some think). Just maintain our good program, and good lord find an AD that can actually fundraise.

I'm also guessing we're going to make the cut on a few of these articles, as we have in the past, especially if the author doesn't start out with "Enrollment: At least 20,000". President Freeman, your table is still ready here...

GO HUSKIES!

(08-01-2022 11:34 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(08-01-2022 10:44 AM)BigChilla Wrote:  Trash post.

Be better. We should all, always, want to be better.

I mean giving everyone a trophy screwed a lot of people up. It isn’t a crime to want to be better, but some generations are acting like It is.

“We shouldn’t try because we might fail, or someone might say ‘no.’” Oh…the horror.

Agree with the above, while I appreciate uiniu57's post, it's no time to grant ourselves permission to stop wanting growth or the next step. We may not be #1 on the might-be-elevated to P5 list, but we're definitely a more attractive candidate than many, winning more than our fare share of games on the edge of a big media market (and maybe moving up isn't a do or die as some think). Just maintain our good program, and good lord find an AD that can actually fundraise.

I'm also guessing we're going to make the cut on a few of these articles, as we have in the past, especially if the author doesn't start out with "Enrollment: At least 20,000". President Freeman, your table is still ready here...


GO HUSKIES!

It's a fair question in this regard: How much on-field success does NIU need to overcome its off-field shortcomings? If Toledo would have won the conference 5 of the last 10 years and made a BCS bowl, would they be in a bigger conference today? Self evaluation without needless self criticism isn't a negative thing.

(08-01-2022 11:34 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(08-01-2022 10:35 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:  All this conference expansion and so many on here have delusions of grandeur. Problem is we are what we are. Aside from a tenuous connection to Chicago, neither we -- or most anyone in the MAC -- are particularly attractive. Note the story link below and accept the reality that neither we or the MAC can check off too many of the boxes. For that reason, I simply want us to be the best in the MAC and continue accumulating boneyard victories.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/college-foo...34169.html

There are two talking points here; Valuing NIU and valuing the MAC. The MAC has more stability with better growth opportunity. It basically has a strong hold on the Midwest as the B1G’s little brother. The AAC took a big hit while the sunbelt and CUSA have improved. The G5 parity is better than the P5’s. With just a couple big moves the MAC is right there at the top(WKU, NDSU, MTSU). NIU on the other hand is somewhat hamstrung by the economics tied to its attendance. It feels as if NIU is treading water and I’m not sure how to breakout of that stigma. It’s on-field product is top G5 caliber while it’s books are near the bottom. NIU won’t elevate because it’s in a position to. It will have to elevate BECAUSE it get’s the helping hand of a bigger conference and the corresponding boost of revenue that brings.

Agree with you on most points. Believe me, I would love for NIU to move up to a P5, but we have to look at the facts as you already pointed out.

We got a football team that we feel can compete with low-level P5 teams but:

1) Attendance is terrible. Yes, I know the MACtion does not help, but we couldn't even break 20,000 for Boston College or Utah. We will be lucky to break 15K for Vandy

2) Endowment is in the bottom 10 for football Div. 1 schools

3) Facilities have a lot to be desired. The Yorden Center, Chessick Center are great, Huskie Stadium needs to be upgraded and that baseball diamond ....enough said.

Can all of these areas be rectified? Of course, but it would be at least 10 years before we see a good trajectory.


Also, I do want to correct you on CUSA. They did not improve. If WKU and MTSU went to the MAC, they would have been disbanded. They are living on borrowed time right now

I would rather get boneyard wins and hopefully an occasional larger bowl. Hopefully the future arrangements will allow such. I went the the Orange Bowl realizing how special that would be. Being dog meat in a big P5 conference does not interest me. The larger power conferences is taking the Cinderella team out of the picture. Maybe I feel this way because I am only Interested NIU football and basketball. I don’t follow or watch any other college team. Even Northwestern basically has no chance to win conference anymore. Nothing about everybody getting a trophy. It is about at least having a chance.

Maybe the person who won the mega lottery is a wanna be big donor to NIU athletics. You can hope.

(08-01-2022 12:34 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(08-01-2022 11:34 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(08-01-2022 10:44 AM)BigChilla Wrote:  Trash post.

Be better. We should all, always, want to be better.

I mean giving everyone a trophy screwed a lot of people up. It isn’t a crime to want to be better, but some generations are acting like It is.

“We shouldn’t try because we might fail, or someone might say ‘no.’” Oh…the horror.

Agree with the above, while I appreciate uiniu57's post, it's no time to grant ourselves permission to stop wanting growth or the next step. We may not be #1 on the might-be-elevated to P5 list, but we're definitely a more attractive candidate than many, winning more than our fare share of games on the edge of a big media market (and maybe moving up isn't a do or die as some think). Just maintain our good program, and good lord find an AD that can actually fundraise.

I'm also guessing we're going to make the cut on a few of these articles, as we have in the past, especially if the author doesn't start out with "Enrollment: At least 20,000". President Freeman, your table is still ready here...


GO HUSKIES!

It's a fair question in this regard: How much on-field success does NIU need to overcome its off-field shortcomings? If Toledo would have won the conference 5 of the last 10 years and made a BCS bowl, would they be in a bigger conference today? Self evaluation without needless self criticism isn't a negative thing.

I think we need to get enrollment back in the hood of 20,000, improve our stadium, and enlarge our endowment to a get a real P5 sniff. Would be amazing if the teased first-modern major fundraise that NIU emailed about a few months back takes care of 2 out of 3 of those.

More realistically a slicker G5 conference would be nice and more realistic in the short term if that door opened, as much as we all seem to like the stability of the MAC. More Saturday games, 8% more TV $ or the like would go along way, and we're a geographical outlier in the MAC anyway.

(08-01-2022 01:49 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  Maybe the person who won the mega lottery is a wanna be big donor to NIU athletics. You can hope.

That person is probably a huge Chicago State fan.

(08-01-2022 11:34 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(08-01-2022 10:44 AM)BigChilla Wrote:  Trash post.

Be better. We should all, always, want to be better.

I mean giving everyone a trophy screwed a lot of people up. It isn’t a crime to want to be better, but some generations are acting like It is.

“We shouldn’t try because we might fail, or someone might say ‘no.’” Oh…the horror.

Agree with the above, while I appreciate uiniu57's post, it's no time to grant ourselves permission to stop wanting growth or the next step. We may not be #1 on the might-be-elevated to P5 list, but we're definitely a more attractive candidate than many, winning more than our fare share of games on the edge of a big media market (and maybe moving up isn't a do or die as some think). Just maintain our good program, and good lord find an AD that can actually fundraise.

I'm also guessing we're going to make the cut on a few of these articles, as we have in the past, especially if the author doesn't start out with "Enrollment: At least 20,000". President Freeman, your table is still ready here...

GO HUSKIES!

I'd argue that while we are higher on the list than many others...we still aren't actually on the list. We're just closer to being on the list than many others.

NIU has some potentials: Health Info & Tech facility, Community Sustainability facility, and large undeveloped lands to the west.

It also has a bunch of internal problems, and some run pretty deep. One I rarely see discussed is the switch made by former president John LaTourette from emphasis on academics to more research. His direction was to push professorial staff more toward publication and research. Sounded good, but with limited resources it left under-graduate instruction in the hands of more and more grad assistants. To this day, many incoming students are being taught directly by young people only a few years older than they are. Remember when a professor taught almost every class you took? Long gone, though student costs are higher. And NIU has gotten no higher than R2. LaTourette's plan spread publication/research out way too far instead of concentrating and developing strengths.

(Note: I have a good Tribune analysis of the above, but it's copyrighted.)

Now, milquetoast Freeman's passiveness makes her willing to do anything to keep things quiet, peaceful, nicey-nicey ... anything not to rock the boat with leadership.

Hopefully, the new proposed facilities will expand concentration so NIU becomes "known" for certain fields, like it was at one time for accounting. That will draw enrollment ... and this time, not just using students as budget/political headcount. It would be a shame to add more to the those 160,000 Chicago-area alumni who have little/no interest in NIU.

(Apologies for length)

(08-01-2022 10:44 AM)BigChilla Wrote:  Trash post.

Be better. We should all, always, want to be better.
I mean giving everyone a trophy screwed a lot of people up. It isn’t a crime to want to be better, but some generations are acting like It is.
“We shouldn’t try because we might fail, or someone might say ‘no.’” Oh…the horror.

Misinterpretation trash post.

Being the best at our level and maintaining success require moving forward and higher. Never once suggested not wanting to be better. However there is a difference in pie-in-the-sky thinking and achievable goals. Let's get attendance up, let's get the alumni base more involved, let's get more community support, let's get more corporate sponsorship, let's be the league power in multiple sports. There is plenty NIU can and should do. You want another analogy, how about coach Hammock and his staff not being hung up on labels meaning "so what if you didn't sign a supposed five-star recruit, take the recruits you did sign, coach them, develop them, and make others realize that recruit was overlooked."

Agree on some. The whole we-can-be-in-the-Big-12 thing that started in the early 1980s did a lot of damage. NIU's success and what it does with it has to be reasonable and realistic. It never has been, imo.

(08-01-2022 03:44 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  Agree on some. The whole we-can-be-in-the-Big-12 thing that started in the early 1980s did a lot of damage. NIU's success and what it does with it has to be reasonable and realistic. It never has been, imo.

Interesting point, it seems we can not clean ourselves of Clyde "The Glide" Winfield's stench/Bringham's Boner instead of following Cary Groth's legacy to get our department and programs stabilized in the MAC and then build up from there. The best scenario would that we get invited into another conference and the worst scenario is we become the top school in the conference.

(08-01-2022 02:44 PM)niu16 Wrote:  

(08-01-2022 01:49 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  Maybe the person who won the mega lottery is a wanna be big donor to NIU athletics. You can hope.

That person is probably a huge Chicago State fan.

Now that's funny.