(08-04-2022 09:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2022 11:55 PM)esayem Wrote:  ND’s leadership... signed with the ACC... We owe ND nothing except what’s in the contract they signed. Even gave them a home for football during a worldwide pandemic.

TRUE. Irish fans need to realize that a lot of ACC fans went from pro-ND to anti-ND based on the perceived lack of appreciation for what the ACC did for the Irish in 2020.

(08-04-2022 08:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Carolina's leadership is what has the ACC in [the mess it's in], revenue wise... that Carolina core small basketball conference that Carolina fans whine and pine for is deader than fried chicken.

Also TRUE. UNC fans need to realize that for years the trio of UNC/Duke/UVA ran the ACC, even writing certain things into the by-laws so they couldn't be easily changed after the league expanded. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MESS, GUYS! It IS your fault.

(08-04-2022 08:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  ACC leadership... works for the entire conference, including BC, Wake, Syracuse, etc. as well.

The ACC has more low football earners than the SEC and Big Ten. It is what it is. Until some sort of new NIT challenges the NCAA tournament, that's the way it will be.

esayem, it sounds like you're saying the ACC is a welfare program for small/low football earning schools? If that's what you mean, then (1) UNC must commit to remaining in the ACC no matter what, because that's your mission - to save BC, Wake, and Syracuse! (2) if that's not what you meant, maybe you need to rethink your position on some corollary issues like expelling teams from ACC football and maximizing revenue for the CFP contenders (and don't count yourselves in that group - you're not!)

BOTTOM LINE: Notre Dame and UNC both need to be a little less self-centered and a lot more honest with themselves and each other. This can still work, and work well, for everyone. ND can continue as an independent indefinitely with just a little cooperation with the ACC - and the ACC can be a decent home for the other 14 if they'll work for the good of the whole just a little more.

Saint Paul wrote:

Quote:(2 Timothy 3:1-4) But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty,... unthankful, disloyal,... not open to any agreement,... betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride...

TRUE. Very true.

What form is this appreciation supposed to take?

ND fans view this a strictly a business decision by the ACC designed to try to lure ND full time in the ACC, plus a method for ACC schools to make more money.

It is not viewed as a charitable act or an outpouring of benevolent goodwill. It was a cold, calculated business deal, by both sides.

Plus, the whole experience further turned off ND fans to the idea of full membership in the ACC. So, thank you, I guess.

I do agree with one thing esayem said, but turn it around:

He said "We owe ND nothing except what’s in the contract they signed."

Agreed. Wholeheartedly, absolutely agreed.

Likewise, ND doesn't owe one single thing over and above the contracts it signed.

This relationship has been, is and will continue to be strictly transactional.

This far, and no further. Complete status quo until 2036.

(08-04-2022 02:22 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 09:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2022 11:55 PM)esayem Wrote:  ND’s leadership... signed with the ACC... We owe ND nothing except what’s in the contract they signed. Even gave them a home for football during a worldwide pandemic.

TRUE. Irish fans need to realize that a lot of ACC fans went from pro-ND to anti-ND based on the perceived lack of appreciation for what the ACC did for the Irish in 2020.

(08-04-2022 08:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Carolina's leadership is what has the ACC in [the mess it's in], revenue wise... that Carolina core small basketball conference that Carolina fans whine and pine for is deader than fried chicken.

Also TRUE. UNC fans need to realize that for years the trio of UNC/Duke/UVA ran the ACC, even writing certain things into the by-laws so they couldn't be easily changed after the league expanded. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MESS, GUYS! It IS your fault.

(08-04-2022 08:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  ACC leadership... works for the entire conference, including BC, Wake, Syracuse, etc. as well.

The ACC has more low football earners than the SEC and Big Ten. It is what it is. Until some sort of new NIT challenges the NCAA tournament, that's the way it will be.

esayem, it sounds like you're saying the ACC is a welfare program for small/low football earning schools? If that's what you mean, then (1) UNC must commit to remaining in the ACC no matter what, because that's your mission - to save BC, Wake, and Syracuse! (2) if that's not what you meant, maybe you need to rethink your position on some corollary issues like expelling teams from ACC football and maximizing revenue for the CFP contenders (and don't count yourselves in that group - you're not!)

BOTTOM LINE: Notre Dame and UNC both need to be a little less self-centered and a lot more honest with themselves and each other. This can still work, and work well, for everyone. ND can continue as an independent indefinitely with just a little cooperation with the ACC - and the ACC can be a decent home for the other 14 if they'll work for the good of the whole just a little more.

Saint Paul wrote:

Quote:(2 Timothy 3:1-4) But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty,... unthankful, disloyal,... not open to any agreement,... betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride...

TRUE. Very true.

What form is this appreciation supposed to take?

ND fans view this a strictly a business decision by the ACC designed to try to lure ND full time in the ACC, plus a method for ACC schools to make more money.

It is not viewed as a charitable act or an outpouring of benevolent goodwill. It was a cold, calculated business deal, by both sides.

Plus, the whole experience further turned off ND fans to the idea of full membership in the ACC. So, thank you, I guess.

I do agree with one thing esayem said, but turn it around:

He said "We owe ND nothing except what’s in the contract they signed."

Agreed. Wholeheartedly, absolutely agreed.

Likewise, ND doesn't owe one single thing over and above the contracts it signed.

This relationship has been, is and will continue to be strictly transactional.

This far, and no further. Complete status quo until 2036.

Hey, personally, I'm fine with it as-is. Just pointing out that many ACC fans expected some form of appreciation (maybe run an ad on the ACC Network, IDK)

(08-04-2022 02:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:22 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 09:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2022 11:55 PM)esayem Wrote:  ND’s leadership... signed with the ACC... We owe ND nothing except what’s in the contract they signed. Even gave them a home for football during a worldwide pandemic.

TRUE. Irish fans need to realize that a lot of ACC fans went from pro-ND to anti-ND based on the perceived lack of appreciation for what the ACC did for the Irish in 2020.

(08-04-2022 08:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Carolina's leadership is what has the ACC in [the mess it's in], revenue wise... that Carolina core small basketball conference that Carolina fans whine and pine for is deader than fried chicken.

Also TRUE. UNC fans need to realize that for years the trio of UNC/Duke/UVA ran the ACC, even writing certain things into the by-laws so they couldn't be easily changed after the league expanded. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MESS, GUYS! It IS your fault.

(08-04-2022 08:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  ACC leadership... works for the entire conference, including BC, Wake, Syracuse, etc. as well.

The ACC has more low football earners than the SEC and Big Ten. It is what it is. Until some sort of new NIT challenges the NCAA tournament, that's the way it will be.

esayem, it sounds like you're saying the ACC is a welfare program for small/low football earning schools? If that's what you mean, then (1) UNC must commit to remaining in the ACC no matter what, because that's your mission - to save BC, Wake, and Syracuse! (2) if that's not what you meant, maybe you need to rethink your position on some corollary issues like expelling teams from ACC football and maximizing revenue for the CFP contenders (and don't count yourselves in that group - you're not!)

BOTTOM LINE: Notre Dame and UNC both need to be a little less self-centered and a lot more honest with themselves and each other. This can still work, and work well, for everyone. ND can continue as an independent indefinitely with just a little cooperation with the ACC - and the ACC can be a decent home for the other 14 if they'll work for the good of the whole just a little more.

Saint Paul wrote:

Quote:(2 Timothy 3:1-4) But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty,... unthankful, disloyal,... not open to any agreement,... betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride...

TRUE. Very true.

What form is this appreciation supposed to take?

ND fans view this a strictly a business decision by the ACC designed to try to lure ND full time in the ACC, plus a method for ACC schools to make more money.

It is not viewed as a charitable act or an outpouring of benevolent goodwill. It was a cold, calculated business deal, by both sides.

Plus, the whole experience further turned off ND fans to the idea of full membership in the ACC. So, thank you, I guess.

I do agree with one thing esayem said, but turn it around:

He said "We owe ND nothing except what’s in the contract they signed."

Agreed. Wholeheartedly, absolutely agreed.

Likewise, ND doesn't owe one single thing over and above the contracts it signed.

This relationship has been, is and will continue to be strictly transactional.

This far, and no further. Complete status quo until 2036.

Hey, personally, I'm fine with it as-is. Just pointing out that many ACC fans expected some form of appreciation (maybe run an ad on the ACC Network, IDK)

Free Irish Tac Lights for all ACC fans !!!


I think the attitudes really changed with the expanded playoff issue and since then, when it finally became clear to many ACC fans that ND football is REALLY NOT going to join, jolting their pre-conceived notions that it was only a matter of time.

(08-04-2022 02:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:22 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 09:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2022 11:55 PM)esayem Wrote:  ND’s leadership... signed with the ACC... We owe ND nothing except what’s in the contract they signed. Even gave them a home for football during a worldwide pandemic.

TRUE. Irish fans need to realize that a lot of ACC fans went from pro-ND to anti-ND based on the perceived lack of appreciation for what the ACC did for the Irish in 2020.

(08-04-2022 08:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Carolina's leadership is what has the ACC in [the mess it's in], revenue wise... that Carolina core small basketball conference that Carolina fans whine and pine for is deader than fried chicken.

Also TRUE. UNC fans need to realize that for years the trio of UNC/Duke/UVA ran the ACC, even writing certain things into the by-laws so they couldn't be easily changed after the league expanded. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MESS, GUYS! It IS your fault.

(08-04-2022 08:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  ACC leadership... works for the entire conference, including BC, Wake, Syracuse, etc. as well.

The ACC has more low football earners than the SEC and Big Ten. It is what it is. Until some sort of new NIT challenges the NCAA tournament, that's the way it will be.

esayem, it sounds like you're saying the ACC is a welfare program for small/low football earning schools? If that's what you mean, then (1) UNC must commit to remaining in the ACC no matter what, because that's your mission - to save BC, Wake, and Syracuse! (2) if that's not what you meant, maybe you need to rethink your position on some corollary issues like expelling teams from ACC football and maximizing revenue for the CFP contenders (and don't count yourselves in that group - you're not!)

BOTTOM LINE: Notre Dame and UNC both need to be a little less self-centered and a lot more honest with themselves and each other. This can still work, and work well, for everyone. ND can continue as an independent indefinitely with just a little cooperation with the ACC - and the ACC can be a decent home for the other 14 if they'll work for the good of the whole just a little more.

Saint Paul wrote:

Quote:(2 Timothy 3:1-4) But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty,... unthankful, disloyal,... not open to any agreement,... betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride...

TRUE. Very true.

What form is this appreciation supposed to take?

ND fans view this a strictly a business decision by the ACC designed to try to lure ND full time in the ACC, plus a method for ACC schools to make more money.

It is not viewed as a charitable act or an outpouring of benevolent goodwill. It was a cold, calculated business deal, by both sides.

Plus, the whole experience further turned off ND fans to the idea of full membership in the ACC. So, thank you, I guess.

I do agree with one thing esayem said, but turn it around:

He said "We owe ND nothing except what’s in the contract they signed."

Agreed. Wholeheartedly, absolutely agreed.

Likewise, ND doesn't owe one single thing over and above the contracts it signed.

This relationship has been, is and will continue to be strictly transactional.

This far, and no further. Complete status quo until 2036.

Hey, personally, I'm fine with it as-is. Just pointing out that many ACC fans expected some form of appreciation (maybe run an ad on the ACC Network, IDK)

I have have the ad... Thanks, have a good life.

(08-04-2022 06:15 AM)green Wrote:  

(08-03-2022 11:55 PM)esayem Wrote:  Carolina will hang banners regardless of which schools fill out the conference standings below them.

https://twitter.com/joeovies/status/1545022237526343684

I’ll say it again ...
so long as carolina & virginia resist temptation ...
ACC will persist in some form ...
time immemorial ...

FREEDOM JUST ANOTHER WORD FOR NOTHING TO LOSE

Yup and I expect them to stay.

(08-04-2022 02:58 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I'm fine with it as-is. Just pointing out that many ACC fans expected some form of appreciation (maybe run an ad on the ACC Network, IDK)

Free Irish Tac Lights for all ACC fans !!!

I think the attitudes really changed with the expanded playoff issue and since then, when it finally became clear to many ACC fans that ND football is REALLY NOT going to join, jolting their pre-conceived notions that it was only a matter of time.

1. YES, please send my free Tac Light!

2. Phillips got played by the Big Ten. I don't subscribe to the idea that he was trying to "force" ND to join (there was no way it was ever going to be all-champs, and he knew it)

(08-04-2022 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:58 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I'm fine with it as-is. Just pointing out that many ACC fans expected some form of appreciation (maybe run an ad on the ACC Network, IDK)

Free Irish Tac Lights for all ACC fans !!!

I think the attitudes really changed with the expanded playoff issue and since then, when it finally became clear to many ACC fans that ND football is REALLY NOT going to join, jolting their pre-conceived notions that it was only a matter of time.

1. YES, please send my free Tac Light!

2. Phillips got played by the Big Ten. I don't subscribe to the idea that he was trying to "force" ND to join (there was no way it was ever going to be all-champs, and he knew it)

His words seemed different. He seemed intent on convincing us to join. It is easy for an Irish fan to believe there may be another motive behind his moves.

(08-04-2022 05:33 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:58 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I'm fine with it as-is. Just pointing out that many ACC fans expected some form of appreciation (maybe run an ad on the ACC Network, IDK)

Free Irish Tac Lights for all ACC fans !!!

I think the attitudes really changed with the expanded playoff issue and since then, when it finally became clear to many ACC fans that ND football is REALLY NOT going to join, jolting their pre-conceived notions that it was only a matter of time.

1. YES, please send my free Tac Light!

2. Phillips got played by the Big Ten. I don't subscribe to the idea that he was trying to "force" ND to join (there was no way it was ever going to be all-champs, and he knew it)

His words seemed different. He seemed intent on convincing us to join. It is easy for an Irish fan to believe there may be another motive behind his moves.

Convincing? Absolutely! Forcing? He knows that's impossible.

(08-04-2022 08:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 05:33 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:58 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I'm fine with it as-is. Just pointing out that many ACC fans expected some form of appreciation (maybe run an ad on the ACC Network, IDK)

Free Irish Tac Lights for all ACC fans !!!

I think the attitudes really changed with the expanded playoff issue and since then, when it finally became clear to many ACC fans that ND football is REALLY NOT going to join, jolting their pre-conceived notions that it was only a matter of time.

1. YES, please send my free Tac Light!

2. Phillips got played by the Big Ten. I don't subscribe to the idea that he was trying to "force" ND to join (there was no way it was ever going to be all-champs, and he knew it)

His words seemed different. He seemed intent on convincing us to join. It is easy for an Irish fan to believe there may be another motive behind his moves.

Convincing? Absolutely! Forcing? He knows that's impossible.

His actions to us were a stab in the back. The deal worked well for the ACC. The only complaint could be the automatic reuping with ESPN.

(08-04-2022 08:52 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 08:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 05:33 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:58 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Free Irish Tac Lights for all ACC fans !!!

I think the attitudes really changed with the expanded playoff issue and since then, when it finally became clear to many ACC fans that ND football is REALLY NOT going to join, jolting their pre-conceived notions that it was only a matter of time.

1. YES, please send my free Tac Light!

2. Phillips got played by the Big Ten. I don't subscribe to the idea that he was trying to "force" ND to join (there was no way it was ever going to be all-champs, and he knew it)

His words seemed different. He seemed intent on convincing us to join. It is easy for an Irish fan to believe there may be another motive behind his moves.

Convincing? Absolutely! Forcing? He knows that's impossible.

His actions to us were a stab in the back. The deal worked well for the ACC. The only complaint could be the automatic reuping with ESPN.

If he stabbed Notre Dame in the back it's because the sword went through the belly of the ACC first. Voting down the 6+6 CFP expansion was one of the dumbest things Phillips has done since becoming commissioner of the ACC - the other was expecting the Big Ten to keep a non-written gentleman's agreement to schedule non-conference games with the Pac-12 and the ACC. (The no-poaching thing is on Kliavkoff).

(08-04-2022 02:58 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:22 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 09:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2022 11:55 PM)esayem Wrote:  ND’s leadership... signed with the ACC... We owe ND nothing except what’s in the contract they signed. Even gave them a home for football during a worldwide pandemic.

TRUE. Irish fans need to realize that a lot of ACC fans went from pro-ND to anti-ND based on the perceived lack of appreciation for what the ACC did for the Irish in 2020.

(08-04-2022 08:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Carolina's leadership is what has the ACC in [the mess it's in], revenue wise... that Carolina core small basketball conference that Carolina fans whine and pine for is deader than fried chicken.

Also TRUE. UNC fans need to realize that for years the trio of UNC/Duke/UVA ran the ACC, even writing certain things into the by-laws so they couldn't be easily changed after the league expanded. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MESS, GUYS! It IS your fault.

(08-04-2022 08:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  ACC leadership... works for the entire conference, including BC, Wake, Syracuse, etc. as well.

The ACC has more low football earners than the SEC and Big Ten. It is what it is. Until some sort of new NIT challenges the NCAA tournament, that's the way it will be.

esayem, it sounds like you're saying the ACC is a welfare program for small/low football earning schools? If that's what you mean, then (1) UNC must commit to remaining in the ACC no matter what, because that's your mission - to save BC, Wake, and Syracuse! (2) if that's not what you meant, maybe you need to rethink your position on some corollary issues like expelling teams from ACC football and maximizing revenue for the CFP contenders (and don't count yourselves in that group - you're not!)

BOTTOM LINE: Notre Dame and UNC both need to be a little less self-centered and a lot more honest with themselves and each other. This can still work, and work well, for everyone. ND can continue as an independent indefinitely with just a little cooperation with the ACC - and the ACC can be a decent home for the other 14 if they'll work for the good of the whole just a little more.

Saint Paul wrote:

Quote:(2 Timothy 3:1-4) But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty,... unthankful, disloyal,... not open to any agreement,... betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride...

TRUE. Very true.

What form is this appreciation supposed to take?

ND fans view this a strictly a business decision by the ACC designed to try to lure ND full time in the ACC, plus a method for ACC schools to make more money.

It is not viewed as a charitable act or an outpouring of benevolent goodwill. It was a cold, calculated business deal, by both sides.

Plus, the whole experience further turned off ND fans to the idea of full membership in the ACC. So, thank you, I guess.

I do agree with one thing esayem said, but turn it around:

He said "We owe ND nothing except what’s in the contract they signed."

Agreed. Wholeheartedly, absolutely agreed.

Likewise, ND doesn't owe one single thing over and above the contracts it signed.

This relationship has been, is and will continue to be strictly transactional.

This far, and no further. Complete status quo until 2036.

Hey, personally, I'm fine with it as-is. Just pointing out that many ACC fans expected some form of appreciation (maybe run an ad on the ACC Network, IDK)

Free Irish Tac Lights for all ACC fans !!!


I think the attitudes really changed with the expanded playoff issue and since then, when it finally became clear to many ACC fans that ND football is REALLY NOT going to join, jolting their pre-conceived notions that it was only a matter of time.

The funny thing is, many ACC fans, like me, never expected nor wanted ND to join for football. It’s this weird mentality of ND fans being an elusive unicorn.

The only thing I care about is in writing: if ND joins a football conference before 2036, it will be the ACC. ND is not our savior, and frankly, most of us don’t expect that. It’s a few rowdies on the internet.

Notre Dame being a football independent is good for college football. Especially in a world where the losers at USC have to join the Big Ten to believe they’re still relevant. Ever since Coed Carroll they’ve been trash.

(08-04-2022 05:33 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:58 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 02:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I'm fine with it as-is. Just pointing out that many ACC fans expected some form of appreciation (maybe run an ad on the ACC Network, IDK)

Free Irish Tac Lights for all ACC fans !!!

I think the attitudes really changed with the expanded playoff issue and since then, when it finally became clear to many ACC fans that ND football is REALLY NOT going to join, jolting their pre-conceived notions that it was only a matter of time.

1. YES, please send my free Tac Light!

2. Phillips got played by the Big Ten. I don't subscribe to the idea that he was trying to "force" ND to join (there was no way it was ever going to be all-champs, and he knew it)

His words seemed different. He seemed intent on convincing us to join. It is easy for an Irish fan to believe there may be another motive behind his moves.

We already have your best sport: fencing.