(07-23-2022 08:57 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Losing you and Boise would be bad

It would suck but not the death of the MWC. If they lost SDSU, FSU, Boise and UNLV for example they could backfill with:

G5: UTEP, NMSU, TX-State and maybe Tulsa/Texas AAC schools
FCS: Montana, Montana State, NDSU, SDSU

The PAC is probably going to have a hard enough time finding one school worth expansion, finding two might be a bridge too far. You don't really want to load up on filler. There seems to be a push by internet posters to expand in even numbers. But I'm not sure there's much need. Used to be you went to 12 for a conference championship game. But that's out the window. So 11 seems very feasible, The Big 10 was there for quite some time.

(07-23-2022 09:06 PM)Jericho Wrote:  The PAC is probably going to have a hard enough time finding one school worth expansion, finding two might be a bridge too far. You don't really want to load up on filler. There seems to be a push by internet posters to expand in even numbers. But I'm not sure there's much need. Used to be you went to 12 for a conference championship game. But that's out the window. So 11 seems very feasible, The Big 10 was there for quite some time.

Oh you're not wrong in that regard, my theory is if the money is there they potentially could in combination of other rumors/info I've come across (like the PAC President wanting FSU and SDSU, ESPN wanting Boise ect.). There is potential that the BIG12 could try to snag some teams as well if they can't get any of the PAC to move.

(07-23-2022 08:20 PM)Utgrizfan Wrote:  My thoughts:

-If the $$ is there the PAC could expand by 2-4 teams with my picks being SDSU, FSU and then Boise State and SMU/UNLV/CSU.

-Its been reported on the MWC page that the new PAC President wants FSU and SDSU to replace USCLA and keep the Conference with x4 Cali schools. Both wont be able to match USCLA but could replace as much as they can of the California market.

-Boise State is a Nationally recognized brand and always does well in regards to TV Numbers for ESPN. If they get the deal they will do what they can to add them.

-If they were to add a 14th school it's a toss up between UNLV, SMU and CSU and all 3 have their problems. Both UNLV and SMU are in markets where they already are overshadowed by other teams and they already have the Colorado market with CU, adding CSU wouldn't move the needle in terms of eyeballs. At that point it would have to come down to other factors such as academics, location and most importantly who would bring the most $$. In that regard UNLV has the edge.

This will sound crazy but I think it is possible SDSU and Fresno can after 15 years bring more eyeballs than USC and UCLA. So before reasonably rolling your eyes, I will explain why:

1) Many high school sports fans can’t get into any of the CA 4. As a result, they go to schools out of state if they want big time football experience.

2) the Cal State System has 4M alumni versus 2M for the UC system. The Cal State System represents the blue collar everyman, 80% who live in the state, while the UC System represents the coastal elite.

With Cal and Stanford you will retain a portion of the elite crowd while Fresno and SDSU allow you to tap into the crowd that desires P5 football, doesn’t/can’t pay out of state tuition, but can’t get into the elite 4.

It’s a pretty significant missed market.

(07-23-2022 03:05 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 02:42 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  UNLV new state for the conference and growing area and fits well with San Diego State as it’s close to the LA market and they have a great stadium for football and basketball.

Unfortunately, UNLV plays in an 65K NFL stadium. We did that here in San Diego. If hurt our football program.A UNLV doesn't even offer tickers outside of their lower bowl. Add to that they have never been much for football and decades away from being good at BB. Yeah, good market, but a quick influx of major pro teams, including the Oakland Athletics, will create quite a competition for fans. Can UNLV compete?

The difference with SDSU being that Allegiant Stadium is a new state-of-the-art stadium and a domed stadium. UNLV has a lot going for them. With Allegiant Stadium and their new $35 million dollar football complex, the football facilities have improved overnight. They have their 18,000 seat basketball arena, they are in a good market and in a popular destination city.

The problem for them is that their football team has been horrible and in a city with pro teams and a lot of entertainent options, they need to get better. UNLV has not had a player drafted into the NFL since 2010. That is amazing considering that they have some very good high school football teams in the area. The basketball team has slipped. They average just over 8,000 per game. They averaged over 18,000 in 1991 and over 14,000 in 2012. They are trending down. With an NBA team likely coming to town in the near future, they need to get better now. The basketball team can be turned around quickly. Football, which averaged 22,000 per game this past season, is going to require a lot of work.

They are not terrific academically, but they are an R1 school and their law school is ranked #67 in the country, tied with Oregon, LMU, Kansas, Kentucky, and Missouri. You can see the upside with UNLV, but they have to fix their football and basketball programs. Fresno State is solid, but you have to wonder if the PAC will want a second Cal State school? There is football talent in the Central Valley, but then somehow Fresno State missed this stud in their own backyard, Josh Allen. As UCLA can attest to, Fresno fans are loud and loyal. They recruit LA well. They have a rivalry with SDSU. They would not be a bad choice, either.

In this scenario where no current power schools are options, the PAC should pick (order of named options):
1) SMU
2) UNLV
3) Hawaii (football-only with Gonzaga)
4) Hawaii (full)
5) Boise St
6) Fresno St

(07-23-2022 08:47 PM)Utgrizfan Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 08:42 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  1. SDSU
2. Boise St.
3. (tie) Air Force (FB) (or Hawaii FB) plus Gonzaga
5. (tie) Fresno St. or Utah St.
7. CSU
8. Nevada
9. UNLV
10. Wyoming
11. (tie) New Mexico / San Jose St.

Hope I'm not coming off as a dick but I do have some critiques:

-AF even as Football only would have a hard time competing consistently especially at the P5 level.

-Utah State doesn't have the Facilities and support to be a P5 teams, plus Utah is already in the Conference. If they were going to add another Utah team it would be BYU due to their national following.

-UNLV would be in over Reno due to having a Tier Medical research school, facilities and a better location.

Frankly the only MWC schools that have a shot are FSU, SDSU, BSU, UNLV and CSU. I personally like Hawaii to the PAC but they don't bring enough $$, exposure or have the Academics compared to other schools.

Just to correct that misimpression, UH is arguably the strongest Pac-12 candidate from an academic/institutional perspective. It’s the only MWC school that ticks all of the following boxes:

- State flagship
- R1 doctoral research university
- Land grant
- Sea grant
- Space grant
- Medical school
- Law school
- Business school
- National Cancer Institute certified cancer center

And then there’s the half billion dollars in research funding:

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/07/2...h-funding/

It wasn’t a coincidence that UH was welcomed into a Big West conference that has five UC schools as members. So while there are certainly obstacles to UH landing a Pac-12 invitation, academics isn’t one of them.

(07-24-2022 01:08 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 08:47 PM)Utgrizfan Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 08:42 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  1. SDSU
2. Boise St.
3. (tie) Air Force (FB) (or Hawaii FB) plus Gonzaga
5. (tie) Fresno St. or Utah St.
7. CSU
8. Nevada
9. UNLV
10. Wyoming
11. (tie) New Mexico / San Jose St.

Hope I'm not coming off as a dick but I do have some critiques:

-AF even as Football only would have a hard time competing consistently especially at the P5 level.

-Utah State doesn't have the Facilities and support to be a P5 teams, plus Utah is already in the Conference. If they were going to add another Utah team it would be BYU due to their national following.

-UNLV would be in over Reno due to having a Tier Medical research school, facilities and a better location.

Frankly the only MWC schools that have a shot are FSU, SDSU, BSU, UNLV and CSU. I personally like Hawaii to the PAC but they don't bring enough $$, exposure or have the Academics compared to other schools.

Just to correct that misimpression, UH is arguably the strongest Pac-12 candidate from an academic/institutional perspective. It’s the only MWC school that ticks all of the following boxes:

- State flagship
- R1 doctoral research university
- Land grant
- Sea grant
- Space grant
- Medical school
- Law school
- Business school
- National Cancer Institute certified cancer center

And then there’s the half billion dollars in research funding:

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/07/2...h-funding/

It wasn’t a coincidence that UH was welcomed into a Big West conference that has five UC schools as members. So while there are certainly obstacles to UH landing a Pac-12 invitation, academics isn’t one of them.

Fair enough I didn't realize that they were such a high academic institution I appreciate the information.

(07-24-2022 01:08 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 08:47 PM)Utgrizfan Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 08:42 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  1. SDSU
2. Boise St.
3. (tie) Air Force (FB) (or Hawaii FB) plus Gonzaga
5. (tie) Fresno St. or Utah St.
7. CSU
8. Nevada
9. UNLV
10. Wyoming
11. (tie) New Mexico / San Jose St.

Hope I'm not coming off as a dick but I do have some critiques:

-AF even as Football only would have a hard time competing consistently especially at the P5 level.

-Utah State doesn't have the Facilities and support to be a P5 teams, plus Utah is already in the Conference. If they were going to add another Utah team it would be BYU due to their national following.

-UNLV would be in over Reno due to having a Tier Medical research school, facilities and a better location.

Frankly the only MWC schools that have a shot are FSU, SDSU, BSU, UNLV and CSU. I personally like Hawaii to the PAC but they don't bring enough $$, exposure or have the Academics compared to other schools.

Just to correct that misimpression, UH is arguably the strongest Pac-12 candidate from an academic/institutional perspective. It’s the only MWC school that ticks all of the following boxes:

- State flagship
- R1 doctoral research university
- Land grant
- Sea grant
- Space grant
- Medical school
- Law school
- Business school
- National Cancer Institute certified cancer center

And then there’s the half billion dollars in research funding:

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/07/2...h-funding/

It wasn’t a coincidence that UH was welcomed into a Big West conference that has five UC schools as members. So while there are certainly obstacles to UH landing a Pac-12 invitation, academics isn’t one of them.

If Hawaii got in over Fresno I would be bummed for the valley once again overlooked in favor of the coastal towns….. but I would be happy for Hawaii.

(07-23-2022 10:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 03:05 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 02:42 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  UNLV new state for the conference and growing area and fits well with San Diego State as it’s close to the LA market and they have a great stadium for football and basketball.

Unfortunately, UNLV plays in an 65K NFL stadium. We did that here in San Diego. If hurt our football program.A UNLV doesn't even offer tickers outside of their lower bowl. Add to that they have never been much for football and decades away from being good at BB. Yeah, good market, but a quick influx of major pro teams, including the Oakland Athletics, will create quite a competition for fans. Can UNLV compete?

The difference with SDSU being that Allegiant Stadium is a new state-of-the-art stadium and a domed stadium. UNLV has a lot going for them. With Allegiant Stadium and their new $35 million dollar football complex, the football facilities have improved overnight. They have their 18,000 seat basketball arena, they are in a good market and in a popular destination city.

The problem for them is that their football team has been horrible and in a city with pro teams and a lot of entertainent options, they need to get better. UNLV has not had a player drafted into the NFL since 2010. That is amazing considering that they have some very good high school football teams in the area. The basketball team has slipped. They average just over 8,000 per game. They averaged over 18,000 in 1991 and over 14,000 in 2012. They are trending down. With an NBA team likely coming to town in the near future, they need to get better now. The basketball team can be turned around quickly. Football, which averaged 22,000 per game this past season, is going to require a lot of work.

They are not terrific academically, but they are an R1 school and their law school is ranked #67 in the country, tied with Oregon, LMU, Kansas, Kentucky, and Missouri. You can see the upside with UNLV, but they have to fix their football and basketball programs. Fresno State is solid, but you have to wonder if the PAC will want a second Cal State school? There is football talent in the Central Valley, but then somehow Fresno State missed this stud in their own backyard, Josh Allen. As UCLA can attest to, Fresno fans are loud and loyal. They recruit LA well. They have a rivalry with SDSU. They would not be a bad choice, either.

It’s even worse then that. He was a huge Bulldog fan and offered to walk-on and DeRuyter said no. DeRuyter was probably the worst coach in 50 years.

BTW, want to see a good hatred rivalry, put Cal and Fresno in the same league where they have to play

The Cal UCLA rivalry is nothing. Cal fans have nothing but disdain for Fresno, the Valley and Cal States. Meanwhile Fresno has a car size chip on their shoulder. Lol. It’s literal hatred…. None of this kissing cousins **** that are PAC-12 CA rivalries now.

(07-24-2022 02:13 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 10:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 03:05 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 02:42 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  UNLV new state for the conference and growing area and fits well with San Diego State as it’s close to the LA market and they have a great stadium for football and basketball.

Unfortunately, UNLV plays in an 65K NFL stadium. We did that here in San Diego. If hurt our football program.A UNLV doesn't even offer tickers outside of their lower bowl. Add to that they have never been much for football and decades away from being good at BB. Yeah, good market, but a quick influx of major pro teams, including the Oakland Athletics, will create quite a competition for fans. Can UNLV compete?

The difference with SDSU being that Allegiant Stadium is a new state-of-the-art stadium and a domed stadium. UNLV has a lot going for them. With Allegiant Stadium and their new $35 million dollar football complex, the football facilities have improved overnight. They have their 18,000 seat basketball arena, they are in a good market and in a popular destination city.

The problem for them is that their football team has been horrible and in a city with pro teams and a lot of entertainent options, they need to get better. UNLV has not had a player drafted into the NFL since 2010. That is amazing considering that they have some very good high school football teams in the area. The basketball team has slipped. They average just over 8,000 per game. They averaged over 18,000 in 1991 and over 14,000 in 2012. They are trending down. With an NBA team likely coming to town in the near future, they need to get better now. The basketball team can be turned around quickly. Football, which averaged 22,000 per game this past season, is going to require a lot of work.

They are not terrific academically, but they are an R1 school and their law school is ranked #67 in the country, tied with Oregon, LMU, Kansas, Kentucky, and Missouri. You can see the upside with UNLV, but they have to fix their football and basketball programs. Fresno State is solid, but you have to wonder if the PAC will want a second Cal State school? There is football talent in the Central Valley, but then somehow Fresno State missed this stud in their own backyard, Josh Allen. As UCLA can attest to, Fresno fans are loud and loyal. They recruit LA well. They have a rivalry with SDSU. They would not be a bad choice, either.

It’s even worse then that. He was a huge Bulldog fan and offered to walk-on and DeRuyter said no. DeRuyter was probably the worst coach in 50 years.

My 2 nephews from Reedley open the season vs Josh Allen's high school, Firebaugh. I also went to Reedley College like Allen but it was called Kings River back then. Reedley won the JUCO national championship in 2002.

why no religious bias for Gonzaga ?

(07-24-2022 04:00 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  why no religious bias for Gonzaga ?

Because they are too good. It's not a BYU situation in the least.

BS, i don't buy that

Does Gonzaga have an honor code akin to BYU? I believe the answer is "no" and that that is the main source of the issue. They probably still wouldn't like official religious affiliation of any kind, but it would be easier to get beyond that without the religious honor code being in place.

(07-23-2022 09:00 PM)Utgrizfan Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 08:57 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Losing you and Boise would be bad

It would suck but not the death of the MWC. If they lost SDSU, FSU, Boise and UNLV for example they could backfill with:

G5: UTEP, NMSU, TX-State and maybe Tulsa/Texas AAC schools
FCS: Montana, Montana State, NDSU, SDSU

Losing San Diego State and Boise State would put a hurt on the MWC media deal and if the AAC was still interested in AFA and CSU, they would probably be gone. The remaining 8 would still provide a good home for NMSU, UTEP, Montana and Montana State but the media deals would definitely shrink.

(07-23-2022 10:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 03:05 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 02:42 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  UNLV new state for the conference and growing area and fits well with San Diego State as it’s close to the LA market and they have a great stadium for football and basketball.

Unfortunately, UNLV plays in an 65K NFL stadium. We did that here in San Diego. If hurt our football program.A UNLV doesn't even offer tickers outside of their lower bowl. Add to that they have never been much for football and decades away from being good at BB. Yeah, good market, but a quick influx of major pro teams, including the Oakland Athletics, will create quite a competition for fans. Can UNLV compete?

The difference with SDSU being that Allegiant Stadium is a new state-of-the-art stadium and a domed stadium. UNLV has a lot going for them. With Allegiant Stadium and their new $35 million dollar football complex, the football facilities have improved overnight. They have their 18,000 seat basketball arena, they are in a good market and in a popular destination city.

The problem for them is that their football team has been horrible and in a city with pro teams and a lot of entertainent options, they need to get better. UNLV has not had a player drafted into the NFL since 2010. That is amazing considering that they have some very good high school football teams in the area. The basketball team has slipped. They average just over 8,000 per game. They averaged over 18,000 in 1991 and over 14,000 in 2012. They are trending down. With an NBA team likely coming to town in the near future, they need to get better now. The basketball team can be turned around quickly. Football, which averaged 22,000 per game this past season, is going to require a lot of work.

They are not terrific academically, but they are an R1 school and their law school is ranked #67 in the country, tied with Oregon, LMU, Kansas, Kentucky, and Missouri. You can see the upside with UNLV, but they have to fix their football and basketball programs. Fresno State is solid, but you have to wonder if the PAC will want a second Cal State school? There is football talent in the Central Valley, but then somehow Fresno State missed this stud in their own backyard, Josh Allen. As UCLA can attest to, Fresno fans are loud and loyal. They recruit LA well. They have a rivalry with SDSU. They would not be a bad choice, either.

I'm kinda hoping it is Fresno State. We have a long history with them and elevating a second CSU school may help loosen some of the academic restrictions placed on CSU schools. After that a Hawaii/Gonzaga combination would make me happy as well.

If UNLV ever gets its football program going and revitalize their BB program they could be a future addition with the school that wouldn't make the "backfill" cut.

(07-24-2022 01:08 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 08:47 PM)Utgrizfan Wrote:  

(07-23-2022 08:42 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  1. SDSU
2. Boise St.
3. (tie) Air Force (FB) (or Hawaii FB) plus Gonzaga
5. (tie) Fresno St. or Utah St.
7. CSU
8. Nevada
9. UNLV
10. Wyoming
11. (tie) New Mexico / San Jose St.

Hope I'm not coming off as a dick but I do have some critiques:

-AF even as Football only would have a hard time competing consistently especially at the P5 level.

-Utah State doesn't have the Facilities and support to be a P5 teams, plus Utah is already in the Conference. If they were going to add another Utah team it would be BYU due to their national following.

-UNLV would be in over Reno due to having a Tier Medical research school, facilities and a better location.

Frankly the only MWC schools that have a shot are FSU, SDSU, BSU, UNLV and CSU. I personally like Hawaii to the PAC but they don't bring enough $$, exposure or have the Academics compared to other schools.

Just to correct that misimpression, UH is arguably the strongest Pac-12 candidate from an academic/institutional perspective. It’s the only MWC school that ticks all of the following boxes:

- State flagship
- R1 doctoral research university
- Land grant
- Sea grant
- Space grant
- Medical school
- Law school
- Business school
- National Cancer Institute certified cancer center

And then there’s the half billion dollars in research funding:

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/07/2...h-funding/

It wasn’t a coincidence that UH was welcomed into a Big West conference that has five UC schools as members. So while there are certainly obstacles to UH landing a Pac-12 invitation, academics isn’t one of them.

Per Wiki: UH Manoa is a land-grant university that also participates in the sea-grant, space-grant, and sun-grant research consortia; it is one of only four such universities in the country (Oregon State University, Cornell University and Pennsylvania State University are the others).

Impressive.

It is a bidding war for Big 12, Pac 12 and AAC to get Boise State and San Diego State. All three conferences have praised them for their fast growth in academics and on the field process. One thing California and the other UC system could do by the regents is by allowing San Diego State to offer research degrees similar to what UCLA is giving, and have both UC-San Diego and San Diego State work together.

The "academics" the PAC is mainly looking at has nothing to do with admission standards but more to the extent a school is a major research university.

I divided this list up into 3 regions; California, Mountain and Texas to see how the candidate universities stack up. I have them listed by rank not dollar totals to save time but I think you can get the picture.

https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?...ce&ds=herd

California Region:
6) UC San Diego
32) UC Davis
55) UC Irvine
101) UC Santa Barbara
128) UC Riverside
165) San Diego St.
205) San Jose St.
245) Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
352) Fresno State

Mountain Region:
65) Colorado St.
83) Utah St.
91) Hawaii
103) New Mexico
136) Nevada
162) UNLV
168) Wyoming
214) Boise St
754) Gonzaga

Texas Region:
42) Baylor (Medicine)
70) Kansas
71) Iowa St
115) Kansas St
120) Houston
122) Texas Tech
124) Rice
127) Oklahoma St
145) UTSA
170) North Texas
216) SMU
298) TCU

As I've said Gonzaga is a non-starter and Boise is in a much better position than Fresno when it comes to being acceptable for a PAC invite.

There is a good argument to add a few UC schools for academic purposes but that argument stops at UCSD, UCD and UCI. Once you move beyond those 3 the others aren't really special relative to FB playing candidates.

Baylor with its highly rated med school has more play academically than what some might think. Rice and SMU are "there" academically but are not exactly must have additions when you are looking at the research rankings.

The Nevada schools (Reno, Las Vegas) also are better than some might think academically.