(07-12-2022 04:18 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 08:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 08:37 AM)orangefan Wrote:  This source is saying the SEC is done for now at 16.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-fo...-16-teams/

Honestly, this makes sense. With all due respect to my fellow ACC members, none of us would move the needle enough for the SEC to justify getting itself involved either directly or tangentially in a major legal battle over the ACC GOR.

Frankly, many members of the ACC had the chance to kick the tires on the SEC back in 2011 when the SEC was looking for a second school to join with Texas A&M. No ACC member publicly pursued membership at that time. It's possible some did, though, but were privately told there was no interest from the SEC (for instance because the SEC was said to only be interested in schools that expanded its footprint).

This report concerns me, as someone partial to the SEC, on a number of levels.

First, I have said all along that a conference larger than 16 is a bad idea for anyone. Grow larger than 16 and internal splits are IMO likely, almost inevitable. The conference will eventually split from within.

Second, that said, IMO right now the SEC should not take my advice, LOL. Sometimes, circumstances change and you have to choose the lesser of two evils. In this situation, the B1G has blown the doors off, so the SEC has to stay active and aggressive, it can't afford to put itself in a 16-team box if the B1G hasn't done the same, and it hasn't.

Third, "Saturday Down South" is a credible source, so I fear the reports might be correct.

To more opportunities, like it was with TX and OU. What happened to the last two P-conferences that declared they thought "realignment is over" for the time being? They got decapitated.

I don't understand your concern.
The SEC has a great 16 team lineup with a media partner that adores the conference and is willing to pay the SEC top dollar for it's content.

Really, what more could the SEC ask for?

Well first, I think the SEC is actually under-paid, and I think the new B1G deal when announced will reveal that.

Second, IMO any conference has to be woke to opportunities. Some here say all of the schools the SEC could want are in the ACC. Maybe, or maybe not. To me, schools like Stanford and Oregon have value. Notre Dame has value. Heck, USC and UCLA had value, and the B1G got them.

In this case, IMO, it makes sense for a conference to not close doors and stay very woke to opportunities.

(07-12-2022 04:46 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 04:18 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 08:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 08:37 AM)orangefan Wrote:  This source is saying the SEC is done for now at 16.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-fo...-16-teams/

Honestly, this makes sense. With all due respect to my fellow ACC members, none of us would move the needle enough for the SEC to justify getting itself involved either directly or tangentially in a major legal battle over the ACC GOR.

Frankly, many members of the ACC had the chance to kick the tires on the SEC back in 2011 when the SEC was looking for a second school to join with Texas A&M. No ACC member publicly pursued membership at that time. It's possible some did, though, but were privately told there was no interest from the SEC (for instance because the SEC was said to only be interested in schools that expanded its footprint).

This report concerns me, as someone partial to the SEC, on a number of levels.

First, I have said all along that a conference larger than 16 is a bad idea for anyone. Grow larger than 16 and internal splits are IMO likely, almost inevitable. The conference will eventually split from within.

Second, that said, IMO right now the SEC should not take my advice, LOL. Sometimes, circumstances change and you have to choose the lesser of two evils. In this situation, the B1G has blown the doors off, so the SEC has to stay active and aggressive, it can't afford to put itself in a 16-team box if the B1G hasn't done the same, and it hasn't.

Third, "Saturday Down South" is a credible source, so I fear the reports might be correct.

To more opportunities, like it was with TX and OU. What happened to the last two P-conferences that declared they thought "realignment is over" for the time being? They got decapitated.

I don't understand your concern.
The SEC has a great 16 team lineup with a media partner that adores the conference and is willing to pay the SEC top dollar for it's content.

Really, what more could the SEC ask for?

Well first, I think the SEC is actually under-paid, and I think the new B1G deal when announced will reveal that.

Second, IMO any conference has to be woke to opportunities. Some here say all of the schools the SEC could want are in the ACC. Maybe, or maybe not. To me, schools like Stanford and Oregon have value. Notre Dame has value. Heck, USC and UCLA had value, and the B1G got them.

In this case, IMO, it makes sense for a conference to not close doors and stay very woke to opportunities.

(07-12-2022 04:46 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 04:18 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 08:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 08:37 AM)orangefan Wrote:  This source is saying the SEC is done for now at 16.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-fo...-16-teams/

Honestly, this makes sense. With all due respect to my fellow ACC members, none of us would move the needle enough for the SEC to justify getting itself involved either directly or tangentially in a major legal battle over the ACC GOR.

Frankly, many members of the ACC had the chance to kick the tires on the SEC back in 2011 when the SEC was looking for a second school to join with Texas A&M. No ACC member publicly pursued membership at that time. It's possible some did, though, but were privately told there was no interest from the SEC (for instance because the SEC was said to only be interested in schools that expanded its footprint).

This report concerns me, as someone partial to the SEC, on a number of levels.

First, I have said all along that a conference larger than 16 is a bad idea for anyone. Grow larger than 16 and internal splits are IMO likely, almost inevitable. The conference will eventually split from within.

Second, that said, IMO right now the SEC should not take my advice, LOL. Sometimes, circumstances change and you have to choose the lesser of two evils. In this situation, the B1G has blown the doors off, so the SEC has to stay active and aggressive, it can't afford to put itself in a 16-team box if the B1G hasn't done the same, and it hasn't.

Third, "Saturday Down South" is a credible source, so I fear the reports might be correct.

To more opportunities, like it was with TX and OU. What happened to the last two P-conferences that declared they thought "realignment is over" for the time being? They got decapitated.

I don't understand your concern.
The SEC has a great 16 team lineup with a media partner that adores the conference and is willing to pay the SEC top dollar for it's content.

Really, what more could the SEC ask for?

Well first, I think the SEC is actually under-paid, and I think the new B1G deal when announced will reveal that.

Second, IMO any conference has to be woke to opportunities. Some here say all of the schools the SEC could want are in the ACC. Maybe, or maybe not. To me, schools like Stanford and Oregon have value. Notre Dame has value. Heck, USC and UCLA had value, and the B1G got them.

In this case, IMO, it makes sense for a conference to not close doors and stay very woke to opportunities.

In media money the SEC earned 9 million more in the last reported year than the Big 10 in per school payouts. The SEC in that year paid out 787 million in media revenue from all sources. The lowest estimate on their new T1 deal is a raise over 55 million per year to 307 million, a difference of a plus +248 million. Can you do math Quo? What's 248 plus 787 equal? That would be 1 billion 35 million Quo! And that is based upon the CBS failed offer of 307 million which the press rounded down to 300 million and ran with because no real details have been released and won't be until the B1G deal is done. We've had one solid hint in what to expect. Jack Thomson, an Auburn grad and CEO who handles advertising for Disney/ESPN and Coca Cola, among others has said publicly he believes the final number will be closer to $400 million than to 350. So let's just split that at 375. 68 million more plus the carry over 35 million after the lowest number took the SEC's total to 1.035 billion would make the new total 1.103 billion. What is the B1G claiming? It could be over a billion, possibly as high as 1.1 billion.

Now, the SEC added OU and UT after their deal was signed so the above total is inclusive of 14 schools, legally. Why? ESPN would open itself to liability if they had included 2 schools which had not officially joined. Meanwhile, USC and UCLA can be counted in an incomplete and unsigned B1G contract. Whatever the final number for the Big Ten is only another addition afterward can change it. And way down South the SEC is about to get a major boost to its own massive contract when OU and UT show up.

In 2024-5 the Big 10 could enjoy a 10–15-million-dollar advantage for 1 year. In 2024-5 the SEC's money kicks in. In 2025-6 at the latest Oklahoma and Texas money is added.

I really don't think the SEC will wind up undervalued and the media specialists who have done projections don't think so either! Math is your friend!

(07-12-2022 04:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Our relationship with the Big ten has improved dramatically. All these scenarios are fun to read, but incredibly unlikely.

Money has a way of healing old wounds and burying old hatchets. That surprises me too. The Irish have left a ton of money on the table staying independent for a long time.

What has changed to make Notre Dame want to snuggle up to The Big Ten?

It will be a dark day if and when The Irish join a conference. Another college football tradition gone in the name of the all mighty dollar.

(07-12-2022 05:48 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 04:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Our relationship with the Big ten has improved dramatically. All these scenarios are fun to read, but incredibly unlikely.

Money has a way of healing old wounds and burying old hatchets. That surprises me too. The Irish have left a ton of money on the table staying independent for a long time.

What has changed to make Notre Dame want to snuggle up to The Big Ten?

It will be a dark day if and when The Irish join a conference. Another college football tradition gone in the name of the all mighty dollar.

Money may help healing old wounds, but it's usually spent buying a larger sharper hatchet!

(07-12-2022 05:48 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 04:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Our relationship with the Big ten has improved dramatically. All these scenarios are fun to read, but incredibly unlikely.

Money has a way of healing old wounds and burying old hatchets. That surprises me too. The Irish have left a ton of money on the table staying independent for a long time.

What has changed to make Notre Dame want to snuggle up to The Big Ten?

It will be a dark day if and when The Irish join a conference. Another college football tradition gone in the name of the all mighty dollar.

Time, the (majority of the)fan-base still dislikes them but the admin seems fine. We play hockey in the Big Ten so that likely helped.

If I had my choice for conferences it would be the SEC. I am one of those bitter 40 somethings that holds on to the past slights too much. But the admin likely looks at the dollars and cents.

(07-12-2022 05:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 05:48 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 04:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Our relationship with the Big ten has improved dramatically. All these scenarios are fun to read, but incredibly unlikely.

Money has a way of healing old wounds and burying old hatchets. That surprises me too. The Irish have left a ton of money on the table staying independent for a long time.

What has changed to make Notre Dame want to snuggle up to The Big Ten?

It will be a dark day if and when The Irish join a conference. Another college football tradition gone in the name of the all mighty dollar.

Money may help healing old wounds, but it's usually spent buying a larger sharper hatchet!

Yep, and with our rocky past with the Big 10 that is what the fanbase expects.

(07-12-2022 06:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 05:48 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 04:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Our relationship with the Big ten has improved dramatically. All these scenarios are fun to read, but incredibly unlikely.

Money has a way of healing old wounds and burying old hatchets. That surprises me too. The Irish have left a ton of money on the table staying independent for a long time.

What has changed to make Notre Dame want to snuggle up to The Big Ten?

It will be a dark day if and when The Irish join a conference. Another college football tradition gone in the name of the all mighty dollar.

Time, the (majority of the)fan-base still dislikes them but the admin seems fine. We play hockey in the Big Ten so that likely helped.

If I had my choice for conferences it would be the SEC. I am one of those bitter 40 somethings that holds on to the past slights too much. But the admin likely looks at the dollars and cents.

I think ND in the SEC would not only be more interesting than ND in the B1G, but it would also help ND maintain its distinctiveness. If the Irish join the B1G, more of their identity would be absorbed by it, assimilated, IMO.

I know, not happening. But still.

(07-11-2022 06:50 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-11-2022 04:11 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  The clip in question:

Just watched the clip and no offense to anyone, but Patrick was thoroughly misquoted in this thread.

What he said was that in the aftermath of USC and UCLA moving to the Big Ten, he reached out to a source of his who subsequently said to watch out for Clemson, Miami, and Florida State possibly moving to the SEC. He never mentioned anything about invitations.

To the point about scheduling Notre Dame, what he said was that if he was running the Big Ten then he would demand his teams not play Notre Dame. It was a hypothetical proposition in the vein of "if I was king of college football for a day." Anyway, the goal was to be territorial and thus encourage Notre Dame to join up. That was his advice to Big Ten leaders essentially.

I'm not saying Patrick is 100% accurate here, but he's someone worth taking seriously in my view. He's sober minded and very rarely trolls anyone.

(07-12-2022 06:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 06:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 05:48 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 04:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Our relationship with the Big ten has improved dramatically. All these scenarios are fun to read, but incredibly unlikely.

Money has a way of healing old wounds and burying old hatchets. That surprises me too. The Irish have left a ton of money on the table staying independent for a long time.

What has changed to make Notre Dame want to snuggle up to The Big Ten?

It will be a dark day if and when The Irish join a conference. Another college football tradition gone in the name of the all mighty dollar.

Time, the (majority of the)fan-base still dislikes them but the admin seems fine. We play hockey in the Big Ten so that likely helped.

If I had my choice for conferences it would be the SEC. I am one of those bitter 40 somethings that holds on to the past slights too much. But the admin likely looks at the dollars and cents.

I think ND in the SEC would not only be more interesting than ND in the B1G, but it would also help ND maintain its distinctiveness. If the Irish join the B1G, more of their identity would be absorbed by it, assimilated, IMO.

I know, not happening. But still.

ND in the SEC would be interesting. Also Clemson in the Big 10 would be interesting.

(07-12-2022 05:48 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 04:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Our relationship with the Big ten has improved dramatically. All these scenarios are fun to read, but incredibly unlikely.

Money has a way of healing old wounds and burying old hatchets.

That's a dangerous game to play if you're in the business of selling tribal loyalty--part of that is generation-long grudges. If the president of Michigan snubbing the mackerel-snapping quasi-pagan saint-worshipping benighted Catholics of the big cities isn't important anymore, why is it important that great-grandpa and grandpa were big Fighting Irish fans? Ancient loyalties and ancient grudges are two sides of teh same coin

"Above all things our royalty is to be reverenced, and if you begin to poke about it you cannot reverence it…Its mystery is its life. We must not let in daylight upon magic." --Walter Bahegot.

Sports fandom is much like royalty--if you start being too logical, it falls apart because fans would realize that they or their loved ones aren't actually the ones playing the games. "You're rooting for laundry"--Seinfeld

Quote: That surprises me too. The Irish have left a ton of money on the table staying independent for a long time.

It's a mistake to see that as a strategic choice by Notre Dame. They signed their current NBC deal ($15M per year--some ND fans say more) in 2013. In 2013, the Big 12 had just signed for $20M a year, the Big Ten and PAC-12 were at $20M, the ACC had just signed for $17M, and --my first google hit doesn't have good numbers for the SEC. Kristi Dosh from May 2012

We're comparing Notre Dame at $15M to Minnesota at $100M, without really thinking that we're compaing a 2013 deal to a 2023 deal that hasn't been signed yet.

And some Notre Dame fan pointed out / argued that the $15M is a lowball, lazy-media estimate. IF it started at $15M with 5% annual compounded increases, it would be around $25M for 2022.

Quote:What has changed to make Notre Dame want to snuggle up to The Big Ten?

Well, we don't know that they have.

But Notre Dame has said since the beginning of the CFP that the thing that would force them to give up independence was access to the national championship (a conference-champs only format).

Lately, Swarbrick said “The loss of a committed broadcast partner, the loss of a fair route into the postseason, or such an adverse financial consequence that you had to reconsider,” And in sports, commitment always means "money." So if NBC isn't willing to keep Notre Dame in the same economic class as Purdue and Arkansas, or some other network, Notre Dame has to rethink options.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/07/08/no...conference

(07-12-2022 06:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 05:48 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 04:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Our relationship with the Big ten has improved dramatically. All these scenarios are fun to read, but incredibly unlikely.

Money has a way of healing old wounds and burying old hatchets. That surprises me too. The Irish have left a ton of money on the table staying independent for a long time.

What has changed to make Notre Dame want to snuggle up to The Big Ten?

It will be a dark day if and when The Irish join a conference. Another college football tradition gone in the name of the all mighty dollar.

Time, the (majority of the)fan-base still dislikes them but the admin seems fine. We play hockey in the Big Ten so that likely helped.

If I had my choice for conferences it would be the SEC. I am one of those bitter 40 somethings that holds on to the past slights too much. But the admin likely looks at the dollars and cents.

I’ve been following Notre Dame since Ara was on the sideline.

Growing up in a Catholic neighborhood, everyone was an Irish fan. It didn’t hurt Paul Hornung grew up in the same neighborhood. Many of our Dads grew up playing with him.

There are still a lot of Irish fans in the old neighborhood.

I would hate to see Notre Dame give up independence.

Not that I believe the report, but it would be a pretty clear effort to weaken ND’s schedule and force them to join the Big 10.

(07-12-2022 06:39 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  

(07-11-2022 06:50 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-11-2022 04:11 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  The clip in question:

Just watched the clip and no offense to anyone, but Patrick was thoroughly misquoted in this thread.

What he said was that in the aftermath of USC and UCLA moving to the Big Ten, he reached out to a source of his who subsequently said to watch out for Clemson, Miami, and Florida State possibly moving to the SEC. He never mentioned anything about invitations.

To the point about scheduling Notre Dame, what he said was that if he was running the Big Ten then he would demand his teams not play Notre Dame. It was a hypothetical proposition in the vein of "if I was king of college football for a day." Anyway, the goal was to be territorial and thus encourage Notre Dame to join up. That was his advice to Big Ten leaders essentially.

I'm not saying Patrick is 100% accurate here, but he's someone worth taking seriously in my view. He's sober minded and very rarely trolls anyone.

(07-12-2022 06:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 06:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 05:48 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(07-12-2022 04:04 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Our relationship with the Big ten has improved dramatically. All these scenarios are fun to read, but incredibly unlikely.

Money has a way of healing old wounds and burying old hatchets. That surprises me too. The Irish have left a ton of money on the table staying independent for a long time.

What has changed to make Notre Dame want to snuggle up to The Big Ten?

It will be a dark day if and when The Irish join a conference. Another college football tradition gone in the name of the all mighty dollar.

Time, the (majority of the)fan-base still dislikes them but the admin seems fine. We play hockey in the Big Ten so that likely helped.

If I had my choice for conferences it would be the SEC. I am one of those bitter 40 somethings that holds on to the past slights too much. But the admin likely looks at the dollars and cents.

I think ND in the SEC would not only be more interesting than ND in the B1G, but it would also help ND maintain its distinctiveness. If the Irish join the B1G, more of their identity would be absorbed by it, assimilated, IMO.

I know, not happening. But still.

ND in the SEC would be interesting. Also Clemson in the Big 10 would be interesting.

ND would probably fall to 5th on the SEC list of potential expansion candidates.

I would say the order is:
1. North Carolina
2. Oklahoma State
3. Clemson
4. Florida State
5. Notre Dame
6. North Carolina State

1.The addition of UNC - Chapel Hill brings the entire North Carolina market.
2. Oklahoma State makes Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M happy.
3. Clemson solidifies yearly matches with current SEC rivals Alabama, Auburn, and Georgia and adds Tennessee to the mix.
4. Florida State adds yearly matchups with Alabama, Auburn, Georgia and South Carolina.
5. Notre Dame is just a curiosity. More of an interest for Vanderbilt.
6. NC State would be the go to if Clemson or Florida State bail out on the offer.