I have no doubt Louisville be in The ACC when the dust settles, GOR or No GOR. I know there will be others.

If it’s NO GOR, where does your school have a realistic opportunity to go and why?

In advance we know The Big Ten only accepts applications from AAU member programs unless your name is Notre Dame. That means 5 ACC programs meet the present Big Ten criteria. (The ACC took Louisville so anything is possible. )

The Big Ten has 1 private school. Would they accept any private schools other than Notre Dame?

The Big Ten and The ACC presently share two states: Indiana and Pennsylvania. Would The Big Ten accept a second program in these states?

That leaves The SEC for the remaining hopefuls. Reports say The SEC wants to get into Virginia and North Carolina. The majority of SEC schools are Land Grant Universities.

There are only two land grant universities among schools in North Carolina and Virginia.

The SEC presently has only one private university among its members. In comparison The ACC has 6. Would The SEC more private schools beyond Notre Dame?

The SEC and The ACC presently share four states: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Kentucky. Would The SEC accept a second program in three of of these states?

These are the criteria and similarities I’ve noted, I’m sure there are more.

Again where you going if there is No GOR.

Pitt to remain in the ACC rebuilding it

Pitt:
1) ACC - 45%
2) BIG 12 - 35%
3) B1G - 20%
In order of likelihood

The B1G will accept ND, AAU schools or schools on the cusp of AAU membership (which is obviously fluid).

With that being said...FSU to the SEC. I'd prefer B1G...but the GOR escape hatch probably won't open up for that.

Rumors swirling that UNC, Clemson, FSU, & UVA are talking to the SEC. We'll see.

My dad is a huge Wake Forest guy, and I know he's worried.

(07-07-2022 12:52 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Rumors swirling that UNC, Clemson, FSU, & UVA are talking to the SEC. We'll see.

My dad is a huge Wake Forest guy, and I know he's worried.

Story was "broken" by SwimSwamNews. CBS Sports says it's not true. You decide who is more believable.

(07-07-2022 01:00 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 12:52 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Rumors swirling that UNC, Clemson, FSU, & UVA are talking to the SEC. We'll see.

My dad is a huge Wake Forest guy, and I know he's worried.

Story was "broken" by SwimSwamNews. CBS Sports says it's not true. You decide who is more believable.

I'd say that's a close call in 2022. ;-) CBS Sports isn't exactly the major player in college football anymore. But there sure is a lot of noise right now and a lot of twitter warriors are trying to guess the right answer. No harm if they're wrong...and get to brag if they're right.

Things are completely up in the air. If we’re giving percentages…

50% in the ACC
30% to the B1G
20% to the SEC

Need to excel in the ACC. But don’t close doors if an opportunity presents itself.

If the Big10 and SEC actively pursued ACC schools, I could see UNC and Virginia getting invited to the Big10 and Florida State and Clemson to the SEC.

When the dust all settles w/ the SEC and Big10 this is essentially ECU's final chance at the "Big East" football conference. That's what a rebuilt ACC would mostly resemble. I think the remainder would have to decide whether it's best to rebuild or completely merge w/ whatever is left of the P12 and B12.

If anybody is going anywhere, it will have to be the result of a negotiation with the remaining schools and ESPN. And nobody would leave for any conference other than the B1G or SEC. ESPN is less likely to be a facilitating force in negotiations if any ACC school goes to the B1G than if they go to the SEC.

The only schools that remaining ACC members might be willing to let leave in exchange for increased per school revenue are schools whose departure wouldn't damage the conference's strength in football. In my mind, that eliminates Clemson and Florida State. I think the only schools that both fill a strategic goal for the SEC and wouldn't diminish the ACC's football reputation are UNC and UVa.

A negotiated exit by those two in which they each pay exit fees of $15 million per year for 12 years while ESPN agrees to not reduce their annual payment for media rights would increase the annual per school payout by about $8 million (about 27%).

That would give the SEC the flagship universities of 14 southern states among its 18 members. That league doesn't need more powerful football programs and they wouldn't be getting any. But it would greatly improve its stature in basketball and other sports and gain two states with large and growing populations.

(07-07-2022 02:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  If anybody is going anywhere, it will have to be the result of a negotiation with the remaining schools and ESPN. And nobody would leave for any conference other than the B1G or SEC. ESPN is less likely to be a facilitating force in negotiations if any ACC school goes to the B1G than if they go to the SEC.

The only schools that remaining ACC members might be willing to let leave in exchange for increased per school revenue are schools whose departure wouldn't damage the conference's strength in football. In my mind, that eliminates Clemson and Florida State. I think the only schools that both fill a strategic goal for the SEC and wouldn't diminish the ACC's football reputation are UNC and UVa.

A negotiated exit by those two in which they each pay exit fees of $15 million per year for 12 years while ESPN agrees to not reduce their annual payment for media rights would increase the annual per school payout by about $8 million (about 27%).

That would give the SEC the flagship universities of 14 southern states among its 18 members. That league doesn't need more powerful football programs and they wouldn't be getting any. But it would greatly improve its stature in basketball and other sports and gain two states with large and growing populations.

I think you're overestimating the amount of good faith, decency, and honor among schools in general. In a perfect world, you're right. But this is cutthroat now.

(07-07-2022 02:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  If anybody is going anywhere, it will have to be the result of a negotiation with the remaining schools and ESPN. And nobody would leave for any conference other than the B1G or SEC. ESPN is less likely to be a facilitating force in negotiations if any ACC school goes to the B1G than if they go to the SEC.

The only schools that remaining ACC members might be willing to let leave in exchange for increased per school revenue are schools whose departure wouldn't damage the conference's strength in football. In my mind, that eliminates Clemson and Florida State. I think the only schools that both fill a strategic goal for the SEC and wouldn't diminish the ACC's football reputation are UNC and UVa.

A negotiated exit by those two in which they each pay exit fees of $15 million per year for 12 years while ESPN agrees to not reduce their annual payment for media rights would increase the annual per school payout by about $8 million (about 27%).

That would give the SEC the flagship universities of 14 southern states among its 18 members. That league doesn't need more powerful football programs and they wouldn't be getting any. But it would greatly improve its stature in basketball and other sports and gain two states with large and growing populations.

If ESPN and Fox are conspiring to create a balanced P2 then, yes, they will break up the ACC and move the best pieces into either the SEC or B1G as they have secretly agreed to do.

OTOH, if ESPN decides they want to dominate college sports and marginalize the Big Ten and Fox, they will agree to pay for an ACC/Pac-12 partnership which results in a P4 - with 3 of them under the ESPN umbrella.

So, do you believe in the conspiracy, or do you believe in "greed is good"?

(07-07-2022 02:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  If anybody is going anywhere, it will have to be the result of a negotiation with the remaining schools and ESPN. And nobody would leave for any conference other than the B1G or SEC. ESPN is less likely to be a facilitating force in negotiations if any ACC school goes to the B1G than if they go to the SEC.

The only schools that remaining ACC members might be willing to let leave in exchange for increased per school revenue are schools whose departure wouldn't damage the conference's strength in football. In my mind, that eliminates Clemson and Florida State. I think the only schools that both fill a strategic goal for the SEC and wouldn't diminish the ACC's football reputation are UNC and UVa.

A negotiated exit by those two in which they each pay exit fees of $15 million per year for 12 years while ESPN agrees to not reduce their annual payment for media rights would increase the annual per school payout by about $8 million (about 27%).

That would give the SEC the flagship universities of 14 southern states among its 18 members. That league doesn't need more powerful football programs and they wouldn't be getting any. But it would greatly improve its stature in basketball and other sports and gain two states with large and growing populations.

U.S. Constitution as interpreted by U.S. Supreme Court ...
I’ve got 3 words for ya, sir ...

FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION

(07-07-2022 03:03 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 02:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  If anybody is going anywhere, it will have to be the result of a negotiation with the remaining schools and ESPN. And nobody would leave for any conference other than the B1G or SEC. ESPN is less likely to be a facilitating force in negotiations if any ACC school goes to the B1G than if they go to the SEC.

The only schools that remaining ACC members might be willing to let leave in exchange for increased per school revenue are schools whose departure wouldn't damage the conference's strength in football. In my mind, that eliminates Clemson and Florida State. I think the only schools that both fill a strategic goal for the SEC and wouldn't diminish the ACC's football reputation are UNC and UVa.

A negotiated exit by those two in which they each pay exit fees of $15 million per year for 12 years while ESPN agrees to not reduce their annual payment for media rights would increase the annual per school payout by about $8 million (about 27%).

That would give the SEC the flagship universities of 14 southern states among its 18 members. That league doesn't need more powerful football programs and they wouldn't be getting any. But it would greatly improve its stature in basketball and other sports and gain two states with large and growing populations.

If ESPN and Fox are conspiring to create a balanced P2 then, yes, they will break up the ACC and move the best pieces into either the SEC or B1G as they have secretly agreed to do.

OTOH, if ESPN decides they want to dominate college sports and marginalize the Big Ten and Fox, they will agree to pay for an ACC/Pac-12 partnership which results in a P4 - with 3 of them under the ESPN umbrella.

So, do you believe in the conspiracy, or do you believe in "greed is good"?

https://twitter.com/Andy_Staples/status/...2452194305

EENY MEANY MINY MOE

(07-07-2022 03:13 PM)green Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 02:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  If anybody is going anywhere, it will have to be the result of a negotiation with the remaining schools and ESPN. And nobody would leave for any conference other than the B1G or SEC. ESPN is less likely to be a facilitating force in negotiations if any ACC school goes to the B1G than if they go to the SEC.

The only schools that remaining ACC members might be willing to let leave in exchange for increased per school revenue are schools whose departure wouldn't damage the conference's strength in football. In my mind, that eliminates Clemson and Florida State. I think the only schools that both fill a strategic goal for the SEC and wouldn't diminish the ACC's football reputation are UNC and UVa.

A negotiated exit by those two in which they each pay exit fees of $15 million per year for 12 years while ESPN agrees to not reduce their annual payment for media rights would increase the annual per school payout by about $8 million (about 27%).

That would give the SEC the flagship universities of 14 southern states among its 18 members. That league doesn't need more powerful football programs and they wouldn't be getting any. But it would greatly improve its stature in basketball and other sports and gain two states with large and growing populations.

U.S. Constitution as interpreted by U.S. Supreme Court ...
I’ve got 3 words for ya, sir ...

FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION

Which isn't relevant at all to my post. But keep trying.

(07-07-2022 03:13 PM)green Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 02:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  If anybody is going anywhere, it will have to be the result of a negotiation with the remaining schools and ESPN. And nobody would leave for any conference other than the B1G or SEC. ESPN is less likely to be a facilitating force in negotiations if any ACC school goes to the B1G than if they go to the SEC.

The only schools that remaining ACC members might be willing to let leave in exchange for increased per school revenue are schools whose departure wouldn't damage the conference's strength in football. In my mind, that eliminates Clemson and Florida State. I think the only schools that both fill a strategic goal for the SEC and wouldn't diminish the ACC's football reputation are UNC and UVa.

A negotiated exit by those two in which they each pay exit fees of $15 million per year for 12 years while ESPN agrees to not reduce their annual payment for media rights would increase the annual per school payout by about $8 million (about 27%).

That would give the SEC the flagship universities of 14 southern states among its 18 members. That league doesn't need more powerful football programs and they wouldn't be getting any. But it would greatly improve its stature in basketball and other sports and gain two states with large and growing populations.

U.S. Constitution as interpreted by U.S. Supreme Court ...
I’ve got 3 words for ya, sir ...

FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION

I am not sure that is what he is saying, Green. You are correct in that these entities have the freedom to associate with whom they please. That said, if they do choose to leave, they would be subject to their contractual obligations under the exit fee and GOR. I think the OP is speculating that the ACC might be willing to negotiate some kind of special deal for those schools. I understand his point but disagree as, even if the ACC was so inclined, I am not sure they could carve out exceptions without risking the invalidation of the entire GOR, but that is another question altogether.

(07-07-2022 03:03 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 02:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  If anybody is going anywhere, it will have to be the result of a negotiation with the remaining schools and ESPN. And nobody would leave for any conference other than the B1G or SEC. ESPN is less likely to be a facilitating force in negotiations if any ACC school goes to the B1G than if they go to the SEC.

The only schools that remaining ACC members might be willing to let leave in exchange for increased per school revenue are schools whose departure wouldn't damage the conference's strength in football. In my mind, that eliminates Clemson and Florida State. I think the only schools that both fill a strategic goal for the SEC and wouldn't diminish the ACC's football reputation are UNC and UVa.

A negotiated exit by those two in which they each pay exit fees of $15 million per year for 12 years while ESPN agrees to not reduce their annual payment for media rights would increase the annual per school payout by about $8 million (about 27%).

That would give the SEC the flagship universities of 14 southern states among its 18 members. That league doesn't need more powerful football programs and they wouldn't be getting any. But it would greatly improve its stature in basketball and other sports and gain two states with large and growing populations.

If ESPN and Fox are conspiring to create a balanced P2 then, yes, they will break up the ACC and move the best pieces into either the SEC or B1G as they have secretly agreed to do.

OTOH, if ESPN decides they want to dominate college sports and marginalize the Big Ten and Fox, they will agree to pay for an ACC/Pac-12 partnership which results in a P4 - with 3 of them under the ESPN umbrella.

So, do you believe in the conspiracy, or do you believe in "greed is good"?

I think Disney would feel comfortable dominating college sports. Imagine if they effectively took on the role of the NCAA, but managed more like the a pro league front office. A single entity to help manage college transfer free agency, and player union demands by treating all college players acting in its sports as Disney employees. Enable a balancing of revenues between institutions for more stable relationships. I think that could form of stability could be enticing to college admins.

(07-07-2022 03:22 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 03:13 PM)green Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 02:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  If anybody is going anywhere, it will have to be the result of a negotiation with the remaining schools and ESPN. And nobody would leave for any conference other than the B1G or SEC. ESPN is less likely to be a facilitating force in negotiations if any ACC school goes to the B1G than if they go to the SEC.

The only schools that remaining ACC members might be willing to let leave in exchange for increased per school revenue are schools whose departure wouldn't damage the conference's strength in football. In my mind, that eliminates Clemson and Florida State. I think the only schools that both fill a strategic goal for the SEC and wouldn't diminish the ACC's football reputation are UNC and UVa.

A negotiated exit by those two in which they each pay exit fees of $15 million per year for 12 years while ESPN agrees to not reduce their annual payment for media rights would increase the annual per school payout by about $8 million (about 27%).

That would give the SEC the flagship universities of 14 southern states among its 18 members. That league doesn't need more powerful football programs and they wouldn't be getting any. But it would greatly improve its stature in basketball and other sports and gain two states with large and growing populations.

U.S. Constitution as interpreted by U.S. Supreme Court ...
I’ve got 3 words for ya, sir ...

FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION

I am not sure that is what he is saying, Green. You are correct in that these entities have the freedom to associate with whom they please. That said, if they do choose to leave, they would be subject to their contractual obligations under the exit fee and GOR. I think the OP is speculating that the ACC might be willing to negotiate some kind of special deal for those schools. I understand his point but disagree as I am not sure they could carve out exceptions without risking the invalidation of the entire GOR, but that is another point altogether.

let the networks pick up tab ...
a rounding error to these large cap companies ...
chump change ...
Burger King money ...

BFD

Syracuse will be in the ACC.

And that fact got me to thinking about the bizarre journey of Syracuse throughout the 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, and potentially now the 20s.

Indy for football but in the late 70s, Providence, Georgetown, St. John's and Syracuse met to create the Big East conference in response to new NCAA scheduling requirements.

And in the 80s the Big East conference with TV partner ESPN became one of the top three premiere basketball conferences in the nation.

In the late 80s it became evident that in the following decade being an independent in football was not going to be sustainable for most programs outside of ND.

So in the early 90s Syracuse, Pitt, and BC got Miami on board and the Big East Football Conference was founded with the additions of WVU, VT, Rutgers, and Temple. Thanks to Miami during the beginning of the decade, VT's rise in the latter part of the decade when the Canes were having difficulty from their sanctions, and Syracuse being consistently good the little conference that couldn't showed that yes it could especially going forward into the early part of 00s.

But that wasn't meant to last when the ACC came calling for Miami and reluctantly agreed to first SU and BC as the Canes partners. And then changed their minds and took VT and stopped. And then a little down the road took BC. So led by Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU the Big East accepted UConn's elevation into the football conference, as well as invited Louisville, Cincinnati, and South Florida. By some miracle it did survive. And on the basketball side with Louisville, Cincy, and Marquette added to UConn, PItt, SU, Nova, and G'Town once again the basketball side was back to being one of the top two conferences.

Then ACC came calling again in the early 10s and took SU and Pitt. Maryland left but was replaced by Louisville. Unfortunately while the ACC has quite a few programs in football that SHOULD be performing at a higher level than they are it seems to be only FSU and Clemson consistently. The Big East was able to somewhat disguise this same flaw due to it only having 8 members. But the ACC has 14 of them. And Syracuse was one of the worse if not THE worse due to their past and relatively recent successes from the late 80s through the early 00s. Not championship game material but high bowl eligibility with a likelihood of winning said game. Basketball did better - 1 FF, and 2 other S16s, but had our first losing season under Boeheim last year.

So it's obvious to me we won't be in either of the Power 2 conferences - but it won't surprise me at all if Syracuse admins help take the lead in forging whatever the ACC morphs into after this mess is sorted out.

On the other hand there may not be an big upheaval. Who knows? I sure don't.

Cheers,
Neil