(07-06-2022 09:05 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 09:01 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 08:49 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 08:46 AM)VA49er Wrote:  We're seeing some of the same issues. I basically come into the office two days a week to jump on zoom calls with people that aren't in the office. Plus, some new hires are coming in fully remote, while current employees are now hybrid. That creates resentment. At the end of the day, there's either going to be hybrid schedule where everyone comes in the exact same days or management is going to just say, "F it" and tell everyone to come back full time. Of course, if that happens, the free market takes over and people can leave for places that still allow full remote opportunities. It'll be promoted as an employee benefit.

I wonder if it will reach the point of pay advantages for those who come in?

The wife of a guy that I work with is being offered $75 a week extra if she'll come in. She said no because it wasn't worth the hassle of paying for parking and walking 4-5 blocks to the office.

lol, an extra $75/week is a joke. Can't believe management thought someone would accept that offer. That would be eaten up via gas, parking, etc, in no time.

I know right? Unless you live right next door---nobody is taking the office option.

When I got bought out (beginning of Covid mess) - everyone where I was working always came in to work. Now I dealt with a few folks that worked remote, but when you are working in a manufacturing facility and making things, you have to be there - you just do.

The company’s buy out of its most senior people has left them with a severe brain drain. They have a rule that a retiree can’t come back to work for at least 6 months…..I got a call from them at 6 months to the day asking if I’d come back part time. So far I‘ve told them “nah” 4 more times in 2 years…….I may go back this fall. We will see……..

Quote:The company’s buy out of its most senior people has left them with a severe brain drain.

seen this too.

(07-06-2022 10:28 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

Quote:The company’s buy out of its most senior people has left them with a severe brain drain.

seen this too.

Same here. Fortune 500 company, and replacing higher-paid 50/60's folks with lower paid 20's folks. And, of course, for an engineering-based job, this is a crappy trade.

(07-06-2022 05:22 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 01:00 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 10:22 AM)maximus Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 09:42 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 09:21 AM)maximus Wrote:  Hybrid is the appropriate model.

Some job roles are fine and appropriate for full remote and will never come back.

If you work on any type of team... full remote is not advantageous to cohesive collaboration. Even though it's convenient, It's impossible.

We literally rolled out a hybrid model about 3 months prior to COVID and never went fully remote. The team im over and the adjacent teams are all hybrid.




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Hybrid is good in theory; however, in reality it's not as collaborative as it's made out to be. Yes, folks on my team come into the office on the same day one day a week. We have a thirty minute morning meeting and then we all go into our offices and jump on zoom calls with colleagues that aren't in the office. We are basically space fillers to justify rent expense.

If people are onsite should be using those dusty conference rooms. I've mandated if youre in office and on a call with other people in the office you're in a room. The people remote are on virtually.

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We have a weekly team meeting; however, outside of that we deal with people all over the company, most aren't in the same building or are virtual. So, all we do after the weekly team meeting is jump on zoom calls.

Yeah, no silver bullet and companies im your position is an exception.

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Seems like most larger employers would be the same, imo. I have a feeling enough people will complain and the higher ups will be like, "fine, everyone come back in every day". To avoid, that' I'm keeping my beatching on the down low.....

(07-06-2022 11:01 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 10:28 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

Quote:The company’s buy out of its most senior people has left them with a severe brain drain.

seen this too.

Same here. Fortune 500 company, and replacing higher-paid 50/60's folks with lower paid 20's folks. And, of course, for an engineering-based job, this is a crappy trade.

.

My company was very Engineering centric as well. In my section of about 60 salaried people, I think about 8 took the buyout and I know of 4 already back working part time……. They have told me on the phone point blank “yeah, we hired so and so, but they don’t know anything yet”…….and people that don’t yet have the knowledge don’t get much done.

Are we reaching the point where rent-an-office and rent-a-conference space concepts are becoming viable again?

I remember some of these places popping up a couple of decades ago, but maybe we are approaching new viability.

I work remotely for a large company in Atlanta. We broke ground on a brand new office complex just before covid hit. We began coming back in late 2021. My IT department was asked to come in 2 days per week and we lost over a 100 people for that reason.

Another consideration is when negotiating with a city government, we promised to bring thousands of employees downtown but now can not deliver to the level we promised. For the local business its bad news so another cost is the inner city small businesses serving the daily workers.

Like someone mentioned earlier, commercial real estate will take a bath. The switch from smokestack industries to service industries increased the rural to urban migration and devastated large swaths of the country. We may see a reversal of that trend due to remote work. Salaries may then be indexed to local CPI as well. I currently work in a small town in Ohio making an Atlanta salary so I hope the latter does not happen any time soon.

(07-06-2022 02:07 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 01:55 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 01:49 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  I still go into the office everyday. We have a small house and my wife works from home so there's not a lot of space available at the house. Besides, I like having a big desk to spread the 11x17 drawings out and having a couple screens to work off of. As for the rest of my colleagues, I'd say around a third are WFH.

I do still see the importance of having face-to-face meetings when it comes to meetings. I feel like we get more accomplished during group meetings and the flow of ideas works better when you can get everyone in a room.

I do agree with your last paragraph.

I agree as well. Getting answers face to face is easier than it is via countless emails and trying to schedule zoom meetings when everyone's calendars are booked solid.

I wholeheartedly agree that some professions can be work from home.

I don’t think the engineering profession is one of those. When dealing with large projects with lots of intricate details the required collaboration is huge and gave to face meetings offer the chance to get more done more quickly. If you have an interdisciplinary team coming together on a teams meeting only 1 person can talk at a time however when it’s in person side conversations can happen that allow for better and more creative solutions.

Just my opinion

(07-06-2022 10:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Maybe I'm looking at this totally wrong, but doesn't it SAVE businesses money by NOT having as many people in the office? Less electricity, water, office supplies, etc....free coffee...LOL

Not really, cause those are usually pre-determined under the lease contracts, Tom.

I do know we lost a lot of good people at my current place, because they did find better offers that did allow remote access.

So any company that mandates "x' office days a week, outside of leadership positions, really should rethink the policy, IMO.

(07-07-2022 09:31 AM)Siborg Wrote:  Another consideration is when negotiating with a city government, we promised to bring thousands of employees downtown but now can not deliver to the level we promised. For the local business its bad news so another cost is the inner city small businesses serving the daily workers.

Maybe with respect to commercial real estate in city centers, they can convert the spaces to affordable housing instead. If in the long term more people will be working from home, providing more housing may offset the loss of the office workers in certain business districts.

There are parts of downtown Columbus and Cincinnati that are dead after 5 pm. Restaurants are only open for the breakfast/lunch rush and close by late afternoon. If people also lived in those neighborhoods/districts, then businesses would also pop up to cater to them.

(07-06-2022 01:55 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 01:49 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  I still go into the office everyday. We have a small house and my wife works from home so there's not a lot of space available at the house. Besides, I like having a big desk to spread the 11x17 drawings out and having a couple screens to work off of. As for the rest of my colleagues, I'd say around a third are WFH.

I do still see the importance of having face-to-face meetings when it comes to meetings. I feel like we get more accomplished during group meetings and the flow of ideas works better when you can get everyone in a room.

I do agree with your last paragraph.

I tend to either check out mentally out or multitask/divide attention on Zoom calls, especially when I am just a participant and not running the meeting. I'm actually have a Zoom call running on my other screen right now No way am I the only one.

(07-07-2022 01:50 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 01:55 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 01:49 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  I still go into the office everyday. We have a small house and my wife works from home so there's not a lot of space available at the house. Besides, I like having a big desk to spread the 11x17 drawings out and having a couple screens to work off of. As for the rest of my colleagues, I'd say around a third are WFH.

I do still see the importance of having face-to-face meetings when it comes to meetings. I feel like we get more accomplished during group meetings and the flow of ideas works better when you can get everyone in a room.

I do agree with your last paragraph.

I tend to either check out mentally out or multitask/divide attention on Zoom calls, especially when I am just a participant and not running the meeting. I'm actually have a Zoom call running on my other screen right now No way am I the only one.

Hell that's when I knock out my annual corruption and sexual harassment training.

(07-07-2022 08:52 AM)Claw Wrote:  Are we reaching the point where rent-an-office and rent-a-conference space concepts are becoming viable again?

I remember some of these places popping up a couple of decades ago, but maybe we are approaching new viability.

We closed our Tysons Corner office that had about 10 people and put them all on remote, but have a contract with one of those places so we can still schedule face to face meetings up there on short notice. I used to go up there at least once per month but haven't been up there since Covid.

(07-06-2022 08:38 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Unsure if the Boston Globe is on this board's fake news list…

LOL. I guess it depends on what criteria used in compiling such a list. For me, it’s a question of whether the outlet is using it’s “news” articles to shill for one partisan/political viewpoint. And especially if they’re doing so while piously claiming to be all about the “facts” or some other neutral/objective source of information.

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Of course, different businesses have different perspectives on money, but it’s still incredible to me that the New York Times purchased the Boston Globe for about $1.1 billion in 1993, and then sold it for about $70 million in 2013. That’s the kind of financial bloodbath — approximately a 94% drop (more than that if you count inflation) — that even someone like Mike Bloomberg would’ve felt the pain.