(07-06-2022 12:07 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 11:35 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 10:29 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 10:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 10:24 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  No markets and not great football

Credible fans and state flagship missions.

In a power conference they could grow.

I don't see it. I rather have Hawaii and Colorado St. if I'm going that route also UNM over Nevada if I'm finishing. I love Wyoming I'd take them over UNM and Nevada, I realize there's no one in Wyoming though.

UNR is the flagship school, an R1, good football. good men's basketball, Reno market, better overall than UNLV.

no one is taking Reno over UNLV. Reno is the flagship like Cal is to UCLA, UCLA got picked.

DavidSt has a 50-year vision where the recession of Lake Mead is the impetus for the Reno market to overtake the Vegas market. DavidSt thinks like a university president.

(07-06-2022 12:15 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 12:07 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 11:35 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 10:29 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 10:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Credible fans and state flagship missions.

In a power conference they could grow.

I don't see it. I rather have Hawaii and Colorado St. if I'm going that route also UNM over Nevada if I'm finishing. I love Wyoming I'd take them over UNM and Nevada, I realize there's no one in Wyoming though.

UNR is the flagship school, an R1, good football. good men's basketball, Reno market, better overall than UNLV.

no one is taking Reno over UNLV. Reno is the flagship like Cal is to UCLA, UCLA got picked.

DavidSt has a 50-year vision where the recession of Lake Mead is the impetus for the Reno market to overtake the Vegas market. DavidSt thinks like a university president.

you forgot the "of Phoenix"

(07-05-2022 11:30 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  If I had to list the MWC schools in categories as far as PAC readiness I'd probably go with the following.

Possible: Hawaii, SDSU, UNLV, Colorado St
Project: Nevada, Utah St, New Mexico
No Chance: Air Force, Wyoming, SJSU, Fresno St, Boise St

The no chance list don't have the profile at all for the PAC. PAC might have to look at say Utah St if Utah leaves but no way are they going to add Wyoming as they have a Big Sky level market.

New Mexico was actually in the mix for the XII back in the 90's as they had just expanded their stadium. They have since fallen back. Nevada I think only has a shot if UNLV was not available.

Hawaii & SDSU might be interesting for recruiting purposes. Hawaii of course has the Olympic sport offload in the BW. Then offer Gonzaga a non FB membership in the PAC.

The interesting point is Cal could change that profile of Fresno tomorrow by offering joint degrees like UCSD does with SDSU.

.

As far as getting into the PAC is concerned, a name change might help...something like "The University of Central California."

.

(07-06-2022 01:05 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 11:30 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  If I had to list the MWC schools in categories as far as PAC readiness I'd probably go with the following.

Possible: Hawaii, SDSU, UNLV, Colorado St
Project: Nevada, Utah St, New Mexico
No Chance: Air Force, Wyoming, SJSU, Fresno St, Boise St

The no chance list don't have the profile at all for the PAC. PAC might have to look at say Utah St if Utah leaves but no way are they going to add Wyoming as they have a Big Sky level market.

New Mexico was actually in the mix for the XII back in the 90's as they had just expanded their stadium. They have since fallen back. Nevada I think only has a shot if UNLV was not available.

Hawaii & SDSU might be interesting for recruiting purposes. Hawaii of course has the Olympic sport offload in the BW. Then offer Gonzaga a non FB membership in the PAC.

The interesting point is Cal could change that profile of Fresno tomorrow by offering joint degrees like UCSD does with SDSU.

I always thought it was weird that UC Davis has the Kerney Ag Center in tiny Parlier CA(25 min south of fresno) that my old roommate worked for as a grad of UC Davis, living here in the Valley.

(07-06-2022 01:07 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  .

As far as getting into the PAC is concerned, a name change might help...something like "The University of Central California."

.

I don't think the UCs would like that, They'd prefer California St. UCC too close to UC. Cal St. would piss off SJSU the most, they were the original CSU

(07-06-2022 01:05 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 11:30 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  If I had to list the MWC schools in categories as far as PAC readiness I'd probably go with the following.

Possible: Hawaii, SDSU, UNLV, Colorado St
Project: Nevada, Utah St, New Mexico
No Chance: Air Force, Wyoming, SJSU, Fresno St, Boise St

The no chance list don't have the profile at all for the PAC. PAC might have to look at say Utah St if Utah leaves but no way are they going to add Wyoming as they have a Big Sky level market.

New Mexico was actually in the mix for the XII back in the 90's as they had just expanded their stadium. They have since fallen back. Nevada I think only has a shot if UNLV was not available.

Hawaii & SDSU might be interesting for recruiting purposes. Hawaii of course has the Olympic sport offload in the BW. Then offer Gonzaga a non FB membership in the PAC.

The interesting point is Cal could change that profile of Fresno tomorrow by offering joint degrees like UCSD does with SDSU.

There's a much better chance of this happening with UC Merced than Cal.

To the OP, good for Fresno State, wish you luck.

But it's not happening. I don't know if they'll hold a beauty pageant like the Big 12 did, but they are free to throw their hat in. I'm sure much of the MWC has let the Pac-12 know they'd eagerly answer a call.

But I don't see the valuation. Bob Thompson put Boise State at a generous $8M, and they probably top the MWC. Unfortunately the "Pac-10" per school valuation is about $30M. When the AAC was looking at MWC schools, they were looking for schools that met their $7M valuation and only San Diego State, Boise State, Colorado State and Air Force met that. When they turned to C-USA they regonized the lower valuatiosn and only offered 50% shares to the new six ($3.5M each). Even the Big 12 when doing valuations targeted the low to mid teens for their valuations, and frankly only BYU met that (Houston, Cincy and UCF were not that far off). But this was based on a media valuation of the high teens for the "Big 8." Mind you inflation likely bumps that up 10% or so, but that is the baseline. Texas and Oklahoma are 50% of the value of the Big 12 and their $36M per school media contract (a contract that pays them for an 11th and 12th school they don't have).[1][2]

John Wilner said over a year ago that Houston had more value than any of the remaining 8 Big 12 schools. The Pac-12 valuation is likely a bit higher for two reason: the access to a good chunk of the Texas market, and the recruiting benefits. This may be seen as similar to the reasons the Big Ten was so keen on Rutgers (recruiting and to date over $500M in additional BTN revenue).

Mind you some of the valuation of conference is in the generic inventory of games. They Big 12 was short of inventory for 2025, so new schools added some generic value beyond their own value.

The bad news for Fresno State, besides low valuation, is that they don't add a market nor new recruiting zone, and at 10 schools the Pac-12 has full shelf's of inventory. Boise State delivers a small market, but is zero help in recruiting.

Anyway the valuations kill pretty much any MWC school. A case can be made for SDSU, in that the Pac-12 need to be in the SoCal market even if barely outweighs other considerations. But if you ask me the two highest value schools for the Pac-12 are probably Houston and TCU. You could maybe get value out of Kansas and Oklahoma State. After that I'm 100% certain they'd be under water. Note, Baylor and BYU are out because of their religious charters and honor codes. That is a non starter for the CEOs of Washington, Cal and probably Arizona, while being somewhat frowned upon by the likes of Stanford, Utah and Colorado's CEOs.

I do think Boise State is under valued. They are worth more than $8 million because how many P5 schools they picked off, the number of bowl games they won over P5 value, they get more viewers when they played a P5 school because people want them and a school like North Dakota State to add scalps to their mantels. I think they are worth the $20 million at least.

(07-06-2022 04:39 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I do think Boise State is under valued. They are worth more than $8 million because how many P5 schools they picked off, the number of bowl games they won over P5 value, they get more viewers when they played a P5 school because people want them and a school like North Dakota State to add scalps to their mantels. I think they are worth the $20 million at least.

The population of Boise has doubled since they moved up to FBS. Boise St facilities are PAC/XII level. They could definitely move up some and be competitive.

MWC moving forward is not bad at all considering the losses the PAC, XII and AAC have taken. They don't really need to go anywhere as a program that can get in the Top 20 every once in a while.

Its when you are Kansas and have top shelf basketball is when you need to stay in a top level conference or see that power decline.

(07-05-2022 09:46 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  The 1 thing Fresno brings if the B12 and Pac aren't able to take from each other is that we actually own our whole market and surrounding markets Bakersfield, Merced along w/ Fresno/Visalia/Tulare.

Cal and Stanford know that the purpose of UCs are for research and CSUs are teachers colleges/ag. They're only 2 of 10 votes anyway. I mean if they wont associate w/ Boise Sgt. they were a jr college or BYU because they're religious. SDSU, Hawaii, Fresno, Colorado St., UNLV are about all they got.

You mean UNR, since they're the flagship.

(07-06-2022 04:39 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I do think Boise State is under valued. They are worth more than $8 million because how many P5 schools they picked off, the number of bowl games they won over P5 value, they get more viewers when they played a P5 school because people want them and a school like North Dakota State to add scalps to their mantels. I think they are worth the $20 million at least.

And I think my two decade old Homelite 16" bar chain saw with a dull chain that I once cut down an 18" diameter tree with is worth $300. Make an offer at a yard sale max'd at $40.

(07-06-2022 01:08 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 01:05 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 11:30 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  If I had to list the MWC schools in categories as far as PAC readiness I'd probably go with the following.

Possible: Hawaii, SDSU, UNLV, Colorado St
Project: Nevada, Utah St, New Mexico
No Chance: Air Force, Wyoming, SJSU, Fresno St, Boise St

The no chance list don't have the profile at all for the PAC. PAC might have to look at say Utah St if Utah leaves but no way are they going to add Wyoming as they have a Big Sky level market.

New Mexico was actually in the mix for the XII back in the 90's as they had just expanded their stadium. They have since fallen back. Nevada I think only has a shot if UNLV was not available.

Hawaii & SDSU might be interesting for recruiting purposes. Hawaii of course has the Olympic sport offload in the BW. Then offer Gonzaga a non FB membership in the PAC.

The interesting point is Cal could change that profile of Fresno tomorrow by offering joint degrees like UCSD does with SDSU.

I always thought it was weird that UC Davis has the Kerney Ag Center in tiny Parlier CA(25 min south of fresno) that my old roommate worked for as a grad of UC Davis, living here in the Valley.

Yep Davis does everything possible to compete with Fresno instead of working with Fresno like UCSD does with SDSU.

(07-06-2022 04:26 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  To the OP, good for Fresno State, wish you luck.

But it's not happening. I don't know if they'll hold a beauty pageant like the Big 12 did, but they are free to throw their hat in. I'm sure much of the MWC has let the Pac-12 know they'd eagerly answer a call.

But I don't see the valuation. Bob Thompson put Boise State at a generous $8M, and they probably top the MWC. Unfortunately the "Pac-10" per school valuation is about $30M. When the AAC was looking at MWC schools, they were looking for schools that met their $7M valuation and only San Diego State, Boise State, Colorado State and Air Force met that. When they turned to C-USA they regonized the lower valuatiosn and only offered 50% shares to the new six ($3.5M each). Even the Big 12 when doing valuations targeted the low to mid teens for their valuations, and frankly only BYU met that (Houston, Cincy and UCF were not that far off). But this was based on a media valuation of the high teens for the "Big 8." Mind you inflation likely bumps that up 10% or so, but that is the baseline. Texas and Oklahoma are 50% of the value of the Big 12 and their $36M per school media contract (a contract that pays them for an 11th and 12th school they don't have).[1][2]

John Wilner said over a year ago that Houston had more value than any of the remaining 8 Big 12 schools. The Pac-12 valuation is likely a bit higher for two reason: the access to a good chunk of the Texas market, and the recruiting benefits. This may be seen as similar to the reasons the Big Ten was so keen on Rutgers (recruiting and to date over $500M in additional BTN revenue).

Mind you some of the valuation of conference is in the generic inventory of games. They Big 12 was short of inventory for 2025, so new schools added some generic value beyond their own value.

The bad news for Fresno State, besides low valuation, is that they don't add a market nor new recruiting zone, and at 10 schools the Pac-12 has full shelf's of inventory. Boise State delivers a small market, but is zero help in recruiting.

Anyway the valuations kill pretty much any MWC school. A case can be made for SDSU, in that the Pac-12 need to be in the SoCal market even if barely outweighs other considerations. But if you ask me the two highest value schools for the Pac-12 are probably Houston and TCU. You could maybe get value out of Kansas and Oklahoma State. After that I'm 100% certain they'd be under water. Note, Baylor and BYU are out because of their religious charters and honor codes. That is a non starter for the CEOs of Washington, Cal and probably Arizona, while being somewhat frowned upon by the likes of Stanford, Utah and Colorado's CEOs.

The PAC schools have always wanted an annual trip to CA with SoCal being the most important. Cal and Stanford sit square in the worst recruiting part of California. I think it’s a stretch to say 2 schools in the Bay have CA covered.

(07-06-2022 04:59 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 09:46 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  The 1 thing Fresno brings if the B12 and Pac aren't able to take from each other is that we actually own our whole market and surrounding markets Bakersfield, Merced along w/ Fresno/Visalia/Tulare.

Cal and Stanford know that the purpose of UCs are for research and CSUs are teachers colleges/ag. They're only 2 of 10 votes anyway. I mean if they wont associate w/ Boise Sgt. they were a jr college or BYU because they're religious. SDSU, Hawaii, Fresno, Colorado St., UNLV are about all they got.

You mean UNR, since they're the flagship.

no I don't, just like Cal the flagship got passed over for UCLA, just like UNLV was taken by the MWC before Nevada, Fresno, Hawaii.

If no one else leaves then the PAC is not adding MW teams.

I guarantee it.

I guess I do not understand Wilner's thinking on this when he says XII had easy expansion options in its backyard when it had to go outside of its backyard for BYU, UC, UCF. Houston I will admit was in the XII backyard but otherwise had to search high and low for decent fill ins.

All of the MWC schools at a minimum are in fun locations to play. Once we are down to Rump-PAC (WSU, OSU, Cal, Zona) I think Boise and Fresno make sense but at the moment the PAC still has most of its front line intact.