(07-03-2022 09:58 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 09:51 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 09:22 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 09:02 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 08:39 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  So from everything I'm reading here, if the Big10 only takes 2 more from the PAC, then it's Stanford and Washington.

I've heard that too.

4 Pac plus ND

I don't buy they're stopping at 19. Maybe they figure out a way to add ACC schools. Maybe they add Cal and Oregon. And KU.

I think KS is the 20th in that case.

besides being basketball (which is more important to the big10 and its fans than those who post here seem to indicate : ) - and AAU, it also is contiguous, brings in KS city metro, and...

I think B10 leaders can count. If they pull KS from the B12, regardless of current football performance, that really weakens the B12. And the B12 very likely goes after many of the remaining PAC schools.

And so, by taking 4 + ND + KS, The B10 has ushered in the P4 era, or really the P2+2...

And still has easy room to take 4 more of pretty much whatever they want, later.

By doing it this way, adding ND and causing mass uncertainty in the Pac12 before first inviting KU, they are ushering in the P3 era, really P2+1. The Big 12 looks to add 4 Pac12 schools in this waiting time. That allows the Big 12 to survive when losing KU.

The Pac12 is down to 4 at that point, which includes Oregon St and WSU, and Cal and Oregon or Cal and UW, is dead.

ND joining causes enough turmoil in ACC and SEC, that I don't see the ACC surviving. A few end up in the Big 12 East.

The non-P2 P5s to find a way to group the leftovers into one conference- it is much better for them for their to be one unequivocal middle class conference, than multiple former P5's with backfill from G5.

I pretty much agree, except that I think the ACC will survive. Whatever they look like after ND leaves and possibly some of the southern schools, I think their back fill options leave them as a better/stronger conference than any of the G5

And with the fall apart of the PAC, I don't think the B12 is looking to add more east schools anymore.

If the SEC gets what it wants via dissolution, the ACC can't remain. Nor would ESPN or the Big 12 want it to.

And after the SEC pulls from the ACC, what is left will be rather weak, adding from the already picked over G5 won't do much.

Most likely scenario is the Big 12 adds 4 mountain Pac12 schools first, and 4 ACC schools that the SEC passes on. That would be 20. Remove KU, and add Oregon or UW if they are left out.

It could be 24 if right Pac12 schools remain, more than 4 ACC needed for dissolution, or couple MWC/AAC schools pose too big of headache. Basically, the bigger the BIG/SEC get the more likely it is 20, the smaller those are, the more likely the Big 12 goes to 24.

The Big 12 is all about P3 setup, and in particular removing the Pac12 and ACC by taking the meat of their leftovers while culling some their fat. With those two other tweener conferences gone, the revenue amount doesn't really matter- it will be much lower than the P2, and much higher than any G5. They have the corner on whatever is left after the P2, both in recruiting and CFP berths.

Both of those Elitist pricks can rot in Independence

(07-03-2022 10:42 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 09:58 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 09:51 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 09:22 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 09:02 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  I've heard that too.

4 Pac plus ND

I don't buy they're stopping at 19. Maybe they figure out a way to add ACC schools. Maybe they add Cal and Oregon. And KU.

I think KS is the 20th in that case.

besides being basketball (which is more important to the big10 and its fans than those who post here seem to indicate : ) - and AAU, it also is contiguous, brings in KS city metro, and...

I think B10 leaders can count. If they pull KS from the B12, regardless of current football performance, that really weakens the B12. And the B12 very likely goes after many of the remaining PAC schools.

And so, by taking 4 + ND + KS, The B10 has ushered in the P4 era, or really the P2+2...

And still has easy room to take 4 more of pretty much whatever they want, later.

By doing it this way, adding ND and causing mass uncertainty in the Pac12 before first inviting KU, they are ushering in the P3 era, really P2+1. The Big 12 looks to add 4 Pac12 schools in this waiting time. That allows the Big 12 to survive when losing KU.

The Pac12 is down to 4 at that point, which includes Oregon St and WSU, and Cal and Oregon or Cal and UW, is dead.

ND joining causes enough turmoil in ACC and SEC, that I don't see the ACC surviving. A few end up in the Big 12 East.

The non-P2 P5s to find a way to group the leftovers into one conference- it is much better for them for their to be one unequivocal middle class conference, than multiple former P5's with backfill from G5.

I pretty much agree, except that I think the ACC will survive. Whatever they look like after ND leaves and possibly some of the southern schools, I think their back fill options leave them as a better/stronger conference than any of the G5

And with the fall apart of the PAC, I don't think the B12 is looking to add more east schools anymore.

If the SEC gets what it wants via dissolution, the ACC can't remain. Nor would ESPN or the Big 12 want it to.

And after the SEC pulls from the ACC, what is left will be rather weak, adding from the already picked over G5 won't do much.

Most likely scenario is the Big 12 adds 4 mountain Pac12 schools first, and 4 ACC schools that the SEC passes on. That would be 20. Remove KU, and add Oregon or UW if they are left out.

It could be 24 if right Pac12 schools remain, more than 4 ACC needed for dissolution, or couple MWC/AAC schools pose too big of headache. Basically, the bigger the BIG/SEC get the more likely it is 20, the smaller those are, the more likely the Big 12 goes to 24.

The Big 12 is all about P3 setup, and in particular removing the Pac12 and ACC by taking the meat of their leftovers while culling some their fat. With those two other tweener conferences gone, the revenue amount doesn't really matter- it will be much lower than the P2, and much higher than any G5. They have the corner on whatever is left after the P2, both in recruiting and CFP berths.

I understand your point, but all we need do is look at the post-realignment existences of the AAC and the C-USA to know that the ACC will likely not just disappear.

As long as there are enough schools left that prefer where they are over what choices are in front of them, a conference will continue to exist.

And the same goes for the PAC. It only goes down if enough schools find "acceptable" berths elsewhere.

Have a hard time with the academics being a big issue. Every conference has top level then below
Article was 2021 using US News rankings.

BIG has Northwestern then Nebraska 9-136

SEC has Vandy then Mississippi State 14-196

ACC has Duke then Louisville 9-187

P12 has Stanford then Washington State - Colorado St, San Diego St or Hawaii wouldnt be at the bottom and few others barely at the bottom 6-179

B12 has Rice then WV - of MWC schools only Boise is below the bottom. SJSU isnt ranked nor Air Force. AAC Memphis would be tied at the bottom then UTSA, North Texas and FAU are lower than WV. 17-299

AAC has Tulane (Navy) then UTSA or Wichita if non football count 42-299

MWC has Colorado St (Air Force) then Boise State 148-299

CUSA has FIU then WKU/Liberty/UTEP 162-299

MAC has Buffalo then Toledo 93-299

SBC has GSU then everyone is 299th or NA except ODU and Marshall 239-299


SBC has the least deviation of any conference.

Sam was the only new FBS school which had a national ranking

Glad to see Rice got a B12 invitation while I've been oncacation.

(07-05-2022 08:14 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  Glad to see Rice got a B12 invitation while I've been oncacation.

i think they were talking about B12 potential invites.

Cal will go along with the rest of the Pac.

Don't know what Stanford will do, but its really hard to see them joining the WCC or Big West. Schools with vastly smaller resources.

One thing no one has mentioned: Cal took out a $445 million loan in 2011 to renovate their football stadium and build a student-athlete performance center.

Loans like that are always guaranteed by the University, and public university loans are always guaranteed by the State government.

I don't know how much of that loan remains, but I think that means dropping to quasi-Ivy status is out of the question. The faculty and/or the state would have a field day if they had to absorb that payment.

(07-05-2022 03:57 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  One thing no one has mentioned: Cal took out a $445 million loan in 2011 to renovate their football stadium and build a student-athlete performance center.

Loans like that are always guaranteed by the University, and public university loans are always guaranteed by the State government.

I don't know how much of that loan remains, but I think that means dropping to quasi-Ivy status is out of the question. The faculty and/or the state would have a field day if they had to absorb that payment.

Neither Stanford or Cal is dropping football, everyone hates them so they wish it, it's fantasy land.

(07-04-2022 08:07 PM)Utgrizfan Wrote:  Both of those Elitist pricks can rot in Independence

Stanford being independent FBS and the rest of their sports in the West Coast Conference with Gonzaga ? I'm cool with that.

(07-05-2022 03:41 PM)bullet Wrote:  Cal will go along with the rest of the Pac.

Don't know what Stanford will do, but its really hard to see them joining the WCC or Big West. Schools with vastly smaller resources.

Not when the alternative is either rubbing elbows with Texas folk like TT and Baylor, or West Virginia - or having to welcome Boise State and Fresno State into their league. Then a bunch of UCs and Hawaii sounds a bit more appealing.

(07-05-2022 04:27 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 03:41 PM)bullet Wrote:  Cal will go along with the rest of the Pac.

Don't know what Stanford will do, but its really hard to see them joining the WCC or Big West. Schools with vastly smaller resources.

Not when the alternative is either rubbing elbows with Texas folk like TT and Baylor, or West Virginia - or having to welcome Boise State and Fresno State into their league. Then a bunch of UCs and Hawaii sounds a bit more appealing.

They along w/ Stanford will agree on whatever adds. THey'd be fine w/ Kansas, TCU, Houston, Oklahoma St. or SDSU(probably the best CSU if not it's Cal Poly), Hawaii, UNLV over Bakersfield St., Fullerton, Northridge while being Indy in football.

(07-05-2022 04:27 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 03:41 PM)bullet Wrote:  Cal will go along with the rest of the Pac.

Don't know what Stanford will do, but its really hard to see them joining the WCC or Big West. Schools with vastly smaller resources.

Not when the alternative is either rubbing elbows with Texas folk like TT and Baylor, or West Virginia - or having to welcome Boise State and Fresno State into their league. Then a bunch of UCs and Hawaii sounds a bit more appealing.

The Pac-12 wouldn't have a big issue inviting TCU and Houston at all.

(07-05-2022 04:22 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(07-04-2022 08:07 PM)Utgrizfan Wrote:  Both of those Elitist pricks can rot in Independence

Stanford being independent FBS and the rest of their sports in the West Coast Conference with Gonzaga ? I'm cool with that.

Can’t quite picture Stanford in a league full of Catholics.