(05-11-2022 07:11 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 04:11 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 12:08 PM)grapes Wrote:  Chicago <3

A really nice place to get shot. Lovely.

Quit watching fake news. Most all of the murders in Chicago are happening in a less than two square mile radius. Chicago is 234 square miles.

Here's a list of the most dangerous cities in the USA.

Most Dangerous US cities

Notables on the list.
44. Pompano Beach, FL
41. Greensboro, NC
39. Cincinnati, OH
31. Chicago, IL
26. Tulsa, OK
19. Houston, TX
18. Nashville, TN
16. Wichita, KS
03. Memphis, TN

Like I said, most of the crime is happening in an isolated area.

I can't express how happy this made me to see someone else besides myself understand this. You truly have to put yourself into a bad area to be in danger, which in a lot of cities it's so intertwined you don't have that luxury.

Chicago isn't just the most segregated city by race it's also the most by crime. The downtown is safe as it gets.

(05-11-2022 06:38 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 12:08 PM)grapes Wrote:  Chicago <3

I've lived in Chicago, Memphis, and Las Vegas where I live right now. I've never seen a more beautiful downtown than Chicago in the U.S.. Even San Francisco looked dirty next to it. As for Denver, I was there for just one day. Got to drive around the downtown area, and I was not impressed to be honest. Maybe I was expecting more.

As for weather, unless you live in So. Cal, the weather sucks everywhere in the U.S. for one reason or another.

I travel for a living and have literally been to every major US city. Chicago is hands down the most clean, beautiful, lively city in our country. It's unbelievable actually until you visit yourself. Trust me even I was shocked.

When I first got my job offer I had to stay in Chicago for 6 months before I could move anywhere I want. It's one thing for someone who is stuck in their city to talk good about it, that's always biased. However, I'm blessed and have a career that I could live anywhere I want within the US. With that being said it only took me a couple of months to fall in love with Chicago, i'll never leave.

(05-12-2022 10:09 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 10:02 AM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 08:26 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 08:16 AM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 10:30 PM)TripleA Wrote:  That's why I said I needed 2 homes, one summer and one winter. The weather sucks at some point everywhere but SoCal. But the crowds and the taxes there will kill you.

I had a vacation home in Cayucos CA (San Luis Obispo Co.) Absolutely loved it there. Then I saw the tax bill. Yikes!

One of the road trips on my agenda is the part of the PCH that includes Big Sur and Monterey, plus Hearst Castle. I've never been to San Luis Obispo, but would like to see it once.

Visit, yes. Residence, no.

Btw, your take on Chicago is the opposite of mine. I used to work for a company based in Chicago, and spent a good deal of time there. I liked nothing about that city. I realize you are a native Chicagoan and love it there, but I disliked the hot summers, brutal winters, crowds, traffic, noise, etc.

I feel the same about Washington DC, another place where I worked for years.

My happy places (during the correct time of year) are Maine, rural Florida, Colorado, Montana and southern Utah. Probably upper Michigan, but I have yet to visit there.

Yeah Cayucos was 30 miles south to the South entrance to Sur. Magnificent views. SLO (what the natives call Opispo), is picture post card. Lots of vineyards. My wife loved it with a passion. Just gorgeous. 12 miles from Cayucos.

Been to So Utah many times. Beautiful national parks. Not terribly exciting if you're into restaraunts.

I wouldn't live in downtown Chicago. Too hectic. It's the neigborhoods around it I like. Like Lincoln Park, North Shore, etc. Concrete jungles are fun to visit, but not to live in as far as I'm concerned.

I'm actually into restaurants, so I'm like you are about downtown Chitown. Like to visit so Utah, but wouldn't live there (other than Moab, which is close enough to Grand Junction, Vail, Denver, etc.)

My sister and I travel in a new camper van, so we cook a lot of meals, but we are foodies, too, so restaurants are a high priority. Not the upscale city types, but more the fun, quirky, local cuisine, no-chain types.

Our planned southern Utah and northern Arizona trip is a challenge in that regard, lol. So we're doing our foodie thing mostly on the way out there and back.

I'm 100% with you on the restaurants. No chains for me.

If you go to Northern AZ, I'd go to Sedona, and maybe Lake Havasu. Haven't been to Havasu, but several of my friends say it's fun. Especially if you have a van.

(05-12-2022 04:08 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 10:09 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 10:02 AM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 08:26 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 08:16 AM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  I had a vacation home in Cayucos CA (San Luis Obispo Co.) Absolutely loved it there. Then I saw the tax bill. Yikes!

One of the road trips on my agenda is the part of the PCH that includes Big Sur and Monterey, plus Hearst Castle. I've never been to San Luis Obispo, but would like to see it once.

Visit, yes. Residence, no.

Btw, your take on Chicago is the opposite of mine. I used to work for a company based in Chicago, and spent a good deal of time there. I liked nothing about that city. I realize you are a native Chicagoan and love it there, but I disliked the hot summers, brutal winters, crowds, traffic, noise, etc.

I feel the same about Washington DC, another place where I worked for years.

My happy places (during the correct time of year) are Maine, rural Florida, Colorado, Montana and southern Utah. Probably upper Michigan, but I have yet to visit there.

Yeah Cayucos was 30 miles south to the South entrance to Sur. Magnificent views. SLO (what the natives call Opispo), is picture post card. Lots of vineyards. My wife loved it with a passion. Just gorgeous. 12 miles from Cayucos.

Been to So Utah many times. Beautiful national parks. Not terribly exciting if you're into restaraunts.

I wouldn't live in downtown Chicago. Too hectic. It's the neigborhoods around it I like. Like Lincoln Park, North Shore, etc. Concrete jungles are fun to visit, but not to live in as far as I'm concerned.

I'm actually into restaurants, so I'm like you are about downtown Chitown. Like to visit so Utah, but wouldn't live there (other than Moab, which is close enough to Grand Junction, Vail, Denver, etc.)

My sister and I travel in a new camper van, so we cook a lot of meals, but we are foodies, too, so restaurants are a high priority. Not the upscale city types, but more the fun, quirky, local cuisine, no-chain types.

Our planned southern Utah and northern Arizona trip is a challenge in that regard, lol. So we're doing our foodie thing mostly on the way out there and back.

I'm 100% with you on the restaurants. No chains for me.

If you go to Northern AZ, I'd go to Sedona, and maybe Lake Havasu. Haven't been to Havasu, but several of my friends say it's fun. Especially if you have a van.

I'm 75. My sister is 72. Not the Havasu party types, lol. We like visiting places where we are the only ones there.

We do plan to visit Sedona briefly, though. And Flagstaff, Grand Canyon, and the slot canyons in Page. And the Petrified Forest/Painted Desert. I imagine none of those will be deserted though, lol.

(05-11-2022 07:11 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 04:11 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 12:08 PM)grapes Wrote:  Chicago <3

A really nice place to get shot. Lovely.

Quit watching fake news. Most all of the murders in Chicago are happening in a less than two square mile radius. Chicago is 234 square miles.

Here's a list of the most dangerous cities in the USA.

Most Dangerous US cities

Notables on the list.
44. Pompano Beach, FL
41. Greensboro, NC
39. Cincinnati, OH
31. Chicago, IL
26. Tulsa, OK
19. Houston, TX
18. Nashville, TN
16. Wichita, KS
03. Memphis, TN

Like I said, most of the crime is happening in an isolated area.

Even though that list is from 2020 I am absolutely stunned Birmingham isn't on the list. Maybe murders and dangerous aren't relatable?

(05-11-2022 03:04 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 11:12 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 09:50 AM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-10-2022 10:11 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-10-2022 07:50 PM)vick mike Wrote:  I would only consider Denver on that list.

Funny, I had the same thought. In fact, there is nowhere on that list I want to live.

Actually, there is almost nowhere in the U.S. I want to live full time. Almost every place is either too hot in the summer, or has too much snow and ice in the winter.

So, I really need a summer home and a winter home, lol.

My top 5 summer homes:

1. Durango CO
2. Mackinac Island MI
3. Bar Harbor Maine
4. Bozeman MT
5. Estes Park CO

My top 5 winter homes:

1. Dripping Springs TX
2. Moab UT
3. Seaside FL
4. Monterey CA
5. Key West FL

Moab as a winter retirement destination? I suspect you'd like the one of the communities in western Colorado's Grand Valley a lot more. Grand Junction, Fruita, and Palisade combine to offer all of the recreational amenities of Moab, plus far more competent and comprehensive medical facilities, better shopping (it's where Moabites come to shop), a larger variety of brew-pubs and eateries, a regional airport and passenger rail service, a ski area, a vibrant and growing university, more varied entertainment venues, and less congestion.

That said, if you absolutely must visit Moab, it's only a 90-minute drive.

Well, not having visited either, you are probably right, since you live in Colorado. I was merely going by weather and outdoor activities. I've visited the rest on my list except Moab, Durango and Mackinac Island.

But I plan to visit both Moab and Grand Junction next April, and Mackinac Island the following year.

So how would you compare Grand Junction to Durango, which I actually have at the top of my list, but haven't been able to make it there yet?

I'm not really intending to move to any of them, but do plan to visit the ones that I've missed so far.

Durango is nice, but hemmed in by higher terrain. Thus, its layout is somewhat narrow and linear, and, like Moab, much of its traffic is funneled through one very congested thoroughfare. Though also bounded by surrounding uplands (the Book Cliffs to the north, Colorado National Monument to the south, and the Grand Mesa to the east), the Grand Valley is wider, so GJ has a more open, spacious feel. Grand Junction and its satellite communities are also more accessible to the rest of the world, and together, they offer a greater variety of services, amenities, and recreational opportunities than Durango. Check the areas out on Google Earth.

Grand Junction is four-hour drive from Denver and a five-hour drive from Salt Lake City. The nearest metro to Durango is Albuquerque, about a 4.5-hour drive. Durango to Denver? Forget it.

If you come here and plan to visit both GJ and Moab, be sure to include Utah Hwy. 128 between Cisco and Moab on your route. It runs along the Colorado River and offers spectacular and iconic western views.

Gonna be in Pallisades for the music festival a month from now. Aspen first, then my daughter’s 9500’ off the grid perch 30 miles north of Dolores, then my son’s in Durango….. Santa Fe….. then back east.

...for more data to process (yeah, like that is always a good thing ), here's the U-Haul version of this, with top 25 'moved to' cities in 2021:

2021 U-HAUL TOP 25

U.S. GROWTH CITIES

1. Kissimmee-St. Cloud, FL (2)
2. Raleigh-Durham, NC
3. Palm Bay-Melbourne, FL (23)
4. North Port, FL (1)
5. Madison, WI (5)
6. Fort Myers-North Fort Myers, FL
7. College Station-Bryan, TX
8. Sacramento-Roseville, CA (11)
9. Clermont, FL
10. Sarasota-Bradenton, FL
11. Daytona Beach, FL
12. San Diego, CA
13. Port St. Lucie, FL (3)
14. Milwaukee, WI (13)
15. Grapevine, TX
16. Austin, TX
17. Myrtle Beach, SC
18. Surprise, AZ (8)
19. Brandon-Riverview, FL
20. Wilmington, NC
21. Denver, CO
22. Richardson, TX
23. Auburn-Opelika, AL (4)
24. Ocala, FL (6)
25. Carrollton, TX
- parentheses numbers are from 2020 ranking

Florida and Texas-heavy, for sure...

Interesting for my locale, Auburn-Opelika is on the grow... becoming a 'retirement destination' - last time I was down there on a 'non-football Saturday', there were gobs of retirees moseying around town... ...wondering if this is a 'trend' for 'non-urban' college towns? Makes sense to retire to a place you graduated from and/or a big supporter of, as the towns are relatively small, yet have the 'general amenities' supporting the campus...

(05-12-2022 08:47 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 07:11 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 04:11 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 12:08 PM)grapes Wrote:  Chicago <3

A really nice place to get shot. Lovely.

Quit watching fake news. Most all of the murders in Chicago are happening in a less than two square mile radius. Chicago is 234 square miles.

Here's a list of the most dangerous cities in the USA.

Most Dangerous US cities

Notables on the list.
44. Pompano Beach, FL
41. Greensboro, NC
39. Cincinnati, OH
31. Chicago, IL
26. Tulsa, OK
19. Houston, TX
18. Nashville, TN
16. Wichita, KS
03. Memphis, TN

Like I said, most of the crime is happening in an isolated area.

Even though that list is from 2020 I am absolutely stunned Birmingham isn't on the list. Maybe murders and dangerous aren't relatable?

...dude, Birmingham isn't even the largest city in Alabama anymore... ...but seriously, the 'migration southwards' seems to be booming in the Madison/HuntsVegas/Decatur area for now...

I think another 4-5 years will see the Ham start to REALLY pop with that expansion... Lord knows they are throwing up the 'downtown multi-family' buildings left and right in town (living units over parking/small retail/restaurants)... I was driving around downtown the other day and literally got 'disoriented' (don't say it ) because there were two solid blocks of new buildings where nothing once was, seemingly only a few months back...

Here's hoping it's all good down the road...

(05-13-2022 10:40 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...for more data to process (yeah, like that is always a good thing ), here's the U-Haul version of this, with top 25 'moved to' cities in 2021:

2021 U-HAUL TOP 25

U.S. GROWTH CITIES

1. Kissimmee-St. Cloud, FL (2)
2. Raleigh-Durham, NC
3. Palm Bay-Melbourne, FL (23)
4. North Port, FL (1)
5. Madison, WI (5)
6. Fort Myers-North Fort Myers, FL
7. College Station-Bryan, TX
8. Sacramento-Roseville, CA (11)
9. Clermont, FL
10. Sarasota-Bradenton, FL
11. Daytona Beach, FL
12. San Diego, CA
13. Port St. Lucie, FL (3)
14. Milwaukee, WI (13)
15. Grapevine, TX
16. Austin, TX
17. Myrtle Beach, SC
18. Surprise, AZ (8)
19. Brandon-Riverview, FL
20. Wilmington, NC
21. Denver, CO
22. Richardson, TX
23. Auburn-Opelika, AL (4)
24. Ocala, FL (6)
25. Carrollton, TX
- parentheses numbers are from 2020 ranking

Florida and Texas-heavy, for sure...

Interesting for my locale, Auburn-Opelika is on the grow... becoming a 'retirement destination' - last time I was down there on a 'non-football Saturday', there were gobs of retirees moseying around town... ...wondering if this is a 'trend' for 'non-urban' college towns? Makes sense to retire to a place you graduated from and/or a big supporter of, as the towns are relatively small, yet have the 'general amenities' supporting the campus...

clt says there are two types of people in the usa. people who rent uhauls and successful people

Since there is discussion about where everyone would live if given the choice, I've been wanting to find a way to Asheville one of these days. I love the mountains, the city is just big enough to have all the amenities but small enough to feel like a large town, lots of breweries and fun culture/arts stuff, fairly mild weather year round, 5-hour drive to the ocean if you want to take a weekend beach trip... everything about Asheville seems perfect to me, except maybe for the fact that a lot of people agree with me and it's getting more crowded/traffic heavy.

(05-13-2022 12:40 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Since there is discussion about where everyone would live if given the choice, I've been wanting to find a way to Asheville one of these days. I love the mountains, the city is just big enough to have all the amenities but small enough to feel like a large town, lots of breweries and fun culture/arts stuff, fairly mild weather year round, 5-hour drive to the ocean if you want to take a weekend beach trip... everything about Asheville seems perfect to me, except maybe for the fact that a lot of people agree with me and it's getting more crowded/traffic heavy.

I got married in Asheville. We aren't this way but it's very Bohemian. Lot's of women don't shave or wash regularly there. Don't get me wrong, it's a wonderful place to visit but I'd never want to live there. Different strokes for different folks, though.

(05-12-2022 01:30 PM)grapes Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 06:38 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 12:08 PM)grapes Wrote:  Chicago <3

I've lived in Chicago, Memphis, and Las Vegas where I live right now. I've never seen a more beautiful downtown than Chicago in the U.S.. Even San Francisco looked dirty next to it. As for Denver, I was there for just one day. Got to drive around the downtown area, and I was not impressed to be honest. Maybe I was expecting more.

As for weather, unless you live in So. Cal, the weather sucks everywhere in the U.S. for one reason or another.

I travel for a living and have literally been to every major US city. Chicago is hands down the most clean, beautiful, lively city in our country. It's unbelievable actually until you visit yourself. Trust me even I was shocked.

When I first got my job offer I had to stay in Chicago for 6 months before I could move anywhere I want. It's one thing for someone who is stuck in their city to talk good about it, that's always biased. However, I'm blessed and have a career that I could live anywhere I want within the US. With that being said it only took me a couple of months to fall in love with Chicago, i'll never leave.

I'm moving back to the area. Working on my house right now. My son just took a job in Madison WI. My two sisters and all their kids live in the burbs.

Nothing against Vegas, I'm the only one left here now and I want to be close to family.

(05-10-2022 06:52 PM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  Whether the large city metro area expansion AAC strategy works remains to be seen but AAC got the big metro areas correct it appears. Ditto for B12. Texas had 4 of the top 10. Based on Penske rental data, for whatever that's worth.

1. Houston (Rice)
2. Las Vegas
3. Phoenix
4. Charlotte (Charlotte)
5. Denver
6. San Antonio (UTSA)
7. Dallas (UNT)
8. Orlando
9. Austin
10. Chicago

I cannot fathom anyone moving to Houston on purpose

(05-13-2022 12:40 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Since there is discussion about where everyone would live if given the choice, I've been wanting to find a way to Asheville one of these days. I love the mountains, the city is just big enough to have all the amenities but small enough to feel like a large town, lots of breweries and fun culture/arts stuff, fairly mild weather year round, 5-hour drive to the ocean if you want to take a weekend beach trip... everything about Asheville seems perfect to me, except maybe for the fact that a lot of people agree with me and it's getting more crowded/traffic heavy.

Yeah that looks like a really nice place. Never been there, but I hear it's really nice.

(05-13-2022 12:40 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Since there is discussion about where everyone would live if given the choice, I've been wanting to find a way to Asheville one of these days. I love the mountains, the city is just big enough to have all the amenities but small enough to feel like a large town, lots of breweries and fun culture/arts stuff, fairly mild weather year round, 5-hour drive to the ocean if you want to take a weekend beach trip... everything about Asheville seems perfect to me, except maybe for the fact that a lot of people agree with me and it's getting more crowded/traffic heavy.

I like that place, too. Been there maybe half a dozen times. I agree with your assessment.

It'll be interesting to see how Las Vegas, Phoenix, and other downstream cities fare when they run out of the Colorado River water upon which they rely. The river is already dangerously over-subscribed, and yet people keep flocking to those sprawling urban miasmas. It's also going to be interesting to see what the Strip in Vegas looks like when water levels in Lakes Powell and Mead fall below the levels necessary for power generation and all of those bright lights wink out. I live a bit more than 1/4-mile from the river, and it's running high with snow-melt right now, but not high enough. Not high enough to meet the needs of the more than 40 million people who rely on it, not high enough to maintain water levels in downstream reservoirs, not high enough to continue irrigating five million acres of agricultural lands, and not high enough to meet our treaty obligations with Mexico.

If I lived in Las Vegas, I'd be looking for a way out before real estate values plummet. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

(05-12-2022 12:54 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 12:47 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 08:55 AM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  clt says too many fires in ca and rado

Yes. Kind of stopped the Reno/Lake Tahoe plans from moving forward. The West has major water supply issues ahead of them.

I've been reading that Lake Mead is at its lowest level ever (or in a long time). I'm sure that's just one indicator of the larger issue out west.

It's unbelievable. True story. A man was found in a barrel shot dead (May 3rd) from years ago. The water level has gotten so low it exposed the barrel.

Man found dead in Lake Mead



Article from New York Post on bodies surfacing in barrels in Lake Mead.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/10/bodies-sur...las-vegas/

(05-13-2022 12:40 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Since there is discussion about where everyone would live if given the choice, I've been wanting to find a way to Asheville one of these days. I love the mountains, the city is just big enough to have all the amenities but small enough to feel like a large town, lots of breweries and fun culture/arts stuff, fairly mild weather year round, 5-hour drive to the ocean if you want to take a weekend beach trip... everything about Asheville seems perfect to me, except maybe for the fact that a lot of people agree with me and it's getting more crowded/traffic heavy.

I lived in Asheville from 2018-2021.

Don't go. Seriously. It is one of the best places around to VISIT. You don't want to live there.

Terrible traffic. OBSCENELY expensive real estate. No good airport options.

Honestly, the food scene there is overblown. You will eventually tire of jackfruit BBQ and tempeh at every restaurant. The constant protests downtown... the astronomical number of homeless people (many whom are aggressive) on every corner. The police are a joke because they've been castrated by the 99.9% uber-liberal government.

This is going to sound weird... but it is one of the LEAST friendly places I've ever lived in. Everyone is so self-absorbed and it is a contest to see who can out-weird the other. I always thought hippies were nice people.

The beer is to die for, though. That's the only reason I lasted 3 years.

(05-13-2022 02:18 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 12:54 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 12:47 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-12-2022 08:55 AM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  clt says too many fires in ca and rado

Yes. Kind of stopped the Reno/Lake Tahoe plans from moving forward. The West has major water supply issues ahead of them.

I've been reading that Lake Mead is at its lowest level ever (or in a long time). I'm sure that's just one indicator of the larger issue out west.

It's unbelievable. True story. A man was found in a barrel shot dead (May 3rd) from years ago. The water level has gotten so low it exposed the barrel.

Man found dead in Lake Mead



Article from New York Post on bodies surfacing in barrels in Lake Mead.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/10/bodies-sur...las-vegas/

Sounds like a mob hit, but I can't imagine there'd be any mob activity in Las Vegas.

(05-13-2022 03:06 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 12:40 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Since there is discussion about where everyone would live if given the choice, I've been wanting to find a way to Asheville one of these days. I love the mountains, the city is just big enough to have all the amenities but small enough to feel like a large town, lots of breweries and fun culture/arts stuff, fairly mild weather year round, 5-hour drive to the ocean if you want to take a weekend beach trip... everything about Asheville seems perfect to me, except maybe for the fact that a lot of people agree with me and it's getting more crowded/traffic heavy.

I lived in Asheville from 2018-2021.

Don't go. Seriously. It is one of the best places around to VISIT. You don't want to live there.

Terrible traffic. OBSCENELY expensive real estate. No good airport options.

Honestly, the food scene there is overblown. You will eventually tire of jackfruit BBQ and tempeh at every restaurant. The constant protests downtown... the astronomical number of homeless people (many whom are aggressive) on every corner. The police are a joke because they've been castrated by the 99.9% uber-liberal government.

This is going to sound weird... but it is one of the LEAST friendly places I've ever lived in. Everyone is so self-absorbed and it is a contest to see who can out-weird the other. I always thought hippies were nice people.

The beer is to die for, though. That's the only reason I lasted 3 years.

I haven't visited Asheville since my youth about 65 years ago. Used to hang around Brevard back in those days, with fond memories of Biltmore ice cream and not so fond memories of the pervasive, funky stink of the local paper mill.

Life is precious. I don't think I'd be willing to die for any beer. Or any BBQ, for that matter.