(03-28-2022 03:27 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Wichita State would be the AAC school that Big East might take especially if they were to add Saint Louis and Dayton to what they got. Creighton is a Big East member and that might help Wichita State case. Tulsa makes too much in football from AAC to risk moving football. A-10 has Saint Louis and Loyola-Chicago. Saint Louis is about as far west A-10 will go. My guess is Valporaiso would replace Saint Louis in A-10 as travel partner for Loyola. Long time rival of Loyola and the only school really in the region that fits. Oral Roberts doesn't need a football home, but good basketball program out of the Summitt. MVC might look at them to replace Valpo if that happened.

Wichita St has no institutional fit with Big East members and they don’t increase the Big East’s average tv value.

Valparaiso has no chance at the A-10 — they’ve been bad since leaving the Horizon and look at Valpo’s budget/funding compared to the whole A-10.

MVC just went through expansion and ORU wasn’t mentioned once. I actually agree ORU would be a good add, but it’s easy to infer the school is radioactive to university presidents.

(03-27-2022 01:37 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I was curious about this possibility since the AAC seems to be a conference that teams can't wait to leave. Also would Wake to the A10 be possible??

The teams that can't wait to leave the AAC can't wait to move up FBS conferences. The debate on the A-10 vs AAC in future basketball is one that we'll watch play out. But it really doesn't have a role in conference realignment talk.

The FBS members of the AAC are getting much more TV money then they'd get in the Atlantic 10, because they have football and TV pays more for football. They'd lose money going independent in FB and joining the A-10.

On the other side of things, the basketball schools of the A-10 would ALSO lose money joining the American! Because the teams the AAC would want are the good basketball schools, and the good basketball schools of the A-10 get 75% of the NCAA money they earn instead of splitting it more evenly.

So VCU and Dayton have no reason to flip to the AAC; and Wichita State, Temple and Tulsa have no reason to flip to the A-10.

(03-28-2022 01:52 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Sure Tulsa would be considered. But then again I think Alabama would be considered by the Big Ten if they chose to leave the SEC. And it's just about as likely.

As usual the thread spun off into wild speculation about who the A10 would take as a 16th school, because, you know, people's heads like explode over an odd number of schools in a conference, even one that doesn't play football. But honestly LUC looks like an opportunity add, and there isn't a 16th out there. Usually I look at the metrics and somebody stands out. But there isn't anyone this time.

Well, before Loyola was going to the Final Four and Sweet 16, the A-10 junkies locked in on Belmont. I'd still welcome Belmont with open arms if we needed another member. Or if our conference made the astonishingly unlikely ruthless move and "encouraged" LaSalle and Fordham to seek other homes). Belmont brings a Davidson-like consistency that this conference solely needs.

But you're correct in the fact that there's no search for a 16th going on, because a 16th isn't necessary.

The A-10 plays conference basketball games on every day of the week for TV, no problem with 15.
Richmond doesn't have men's soccer; so Loyola is the 14th.
FIVE schools don't have volleyball, so Loyola is the 10th team.
FIVE schools don't have softball, so Loyola is the 10th team.
Loyola doesn't have baseball, so baseball stays at 10 teams.

Loyola is the 15th women's soccer team. But Women's soccer plays a 10-game schedule because you can't play just 5-6 non-conference games. Making a rotation where you miss four teams instead of three isn't any harder.

There's no reason for a 16th. Lots of people like to talk about scheduling, but Loyola now gives the A-10 three good groups of five (West, South, and North) and a "play the other four a second time" adds up to 18 perfectly. If they want to go that route, but they'll probably just hand-make the schedule based on maximizing TV games like before.

(03-28-2022 02:30 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(03-28-2022 01:52 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Sure Tulsa would be considered. But then again I think Alabama would be considered by the Big Ten if they chose to leave the SEC. And it's just about as likely.

As usual the thread spun off into wild speculation about who the A10 would take as a 16th school, because, you know, people's heads like explode over an odd number of schools in a conference, even one that doesn't play football. But honestly LUC looks like an opportunity add, and there isn't a 16th out there. Usually I look at the metrics and somebody stands out. But there isn't anyone this time.

Well, before Loyola was going to the Final Four and Sweet 16, the A-10 junkies locked in on Belmont. I'd still welcome Belmont with open arms if we needed another member. Or if our conference made the astonishingly unlikely ruthless move and "encouraged" LaSalle and Fordham to seek other homes). Belmont brings a Davidson-like consistency that this conference solely needs.

But you're correct in the fact that there's no search for a 16th going on, because a 16th isn't necessary.

The A-10 plays conference basketball games on every day of the week for TV, no problem with 15.
Richmond doesn't have men's soccer; so Loyola is the 14th.
FIVE schools don't have volleyball, so Loyola is the 10th team.
FIVE schools don't have softball, so Loyola is the 10th team.
Loyola doesn't have baseball, so baseball stays at 10 teams.

Loyola is the 15th women's soccer team. But Women's soccer plays a 10-game schedule because you can't play just 5-6 non-conference games. Making a rotation where you miss four teams instead of three isn't any harder.

There's no reason for a 16th. Lots of people like to talk about scheduling, but Loyola now gives the A-10 three good groups of five (West, South, and North) and a "play the other four a second time" adds up to 18 perfectly. If they want to go that route, but they'll probably just hand-make the schedule based on maximizing TV games like before.

The next 10 to 20 years or so will tell the tale for Belmont (my family history with which dates to about 1945) athletics and academics.

If the university continues to progress on the trajectory it has seen the past 15 years or so, it is possible BU could be home to about 13,000 students (it's almost 9,000 now) and considerably more than its current 25 master's and five doctoral programs. If Belmont can up the grad degree program numbers, see the medical school roll and elevate the endowment from $260 million to $300 million ...

I'm thrilled Belmont is joining the Missouri Valley. It is a league with a strong history and a quality current membership. I will pull for the Valley. But the long-term goal for BU should always be future membership in the best DI-A league (for both academics and athletics) not named the Ivy League or the Big East.

(03-28-2022 02:55 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The next 10 to 20 years or so will tell the tale for Belmont (my family history with which dates to about 1945) athletics and academics.

If the university continues to progress on the trajectory it has seen the past 15 years or so, it is possible BU could be home to about 13,000 students (it's almost 9,000 now) and considerably more than its current 25 master's and five doctoral programs. If Belmont can up the grad degree program numbers, see the medical school roll and elevate the endowment from $260 million to $300 million ...

I'm thrilled Belmont is joining the Missouri Valley. It is a league with a strong history and a quality current membership. I will pull for the Valley. But the long-term goal for BU should always be future membership in the best DI-A league (for both academics and athletics) not named the Ivy League or the Big East.

Well, the A-10 is the best DI league not named Ivy or Big East.

And the A-10 is proof that you don't actually NEED a really large campus to be good at basketball.

Davidson, Richmond and St. Bonaventure combined have less than 9,000 people. And we're three of the top six A-10 programs, with 2 NCAA bids and the NIT semis this year (And 5 NCAA bids in the last 5 years).

The bigger question is "Does Belmont change their recruiting strategy" when switching conferences. That's the biggest problem for most schools. Lots of teams start going for guys they didn't think they could get in their old conference, miss at a higher rate, and then have less knowledge about the guys they end up with leading to poorer results than before (in a harder league).

The best programs in realignment go after the SAME GUYS as before, just LAND MORE of them, and get better that way. Then the recruits get better with the same results in a higher profile league.

(03-28-2022 05:20 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(03-28-2022 02:55 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The next 10 to 20 years or so will tell the tale for Belmont (my family history with which dates to about 1945) athletics and academics.

If the university continues to progress on the trajectory it has seen the past 15 years or so, it is possible BU could be home to about 13,000 students (it's almost 9,000 now) and considerably more than its current 25 master's and five doctoral programs. If Belmont can up the grad degree program numbers, see the medical school roll and elevate the endowment from $260 million to $300 million ...

I'm thrilled Belmont is joining the Missouri Valley. It is a league with a strong history and a quality current membership. I will pull for the Valley. But the long-term goal for BU should always be future membership in the best DI-A league (for both academics and athletics) not named the Ivy League or the Big East.

Well, the A-10 is the best DI league not named Ivy or Big East.

And the A-10 is proof that you don't actually NEED a really large campus to be good at basketball.

Davidson, Richmond and St. Bonaventure combined have less than 9,000 people. And we're three of the top six A-10 programs, with 2 NCAA bids and the NIT semis this year (And 5 NCAA bids in the last 5 years).

The bigger question is "Does Belmont change their recruiting strategy" when switching conferences. That's the biggest problem for most schools. Lots of teams start going for guys they didn't think they could get in their old conference, miss at a higher rate, and then have less knowledge about the guys they end up with leading to poorer results than before (in a harder league).

The best programs in realignment go after the SAME GUYS as before, just LAND MORE of them, and get better that way. Then the recruits get better with the same results in a higher profile league.

I do not foresee Belmont men's basketball coach Casey Alexander changing his recruiting strategy. And that could spell trouble when Belmont enters the MVC.

I hope I'm wrong.

For men's hoops, I feel the A10 is the second-best DI-A league (behind the Big East) that does not offer football.

(03-28-2022 06:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I do not foresee Belmont men's basketball coach Casey Alexander changing his recruiting strategy. And that could spell trouble when Belmont enters the MVC.

I hope I'm wrong.

For men's hoops, I feel the A10 is the second-best DI-A league (behind the Big East) that does not offer football.

RE: A-10, yeah, that's exactly what I mean. That's our slot in the universe, and always will be.


As for recruiting, I think you keep doing what you're doing. If your list of top 10 targets stays the same in terms of talent, making the same pitch from the OVC is getting you targets 4, 5, 8 and 10. In the MVC, it's gonna get you 3, 6, 7 and 9. And that makes your class better than it was before.

And when you are top half of the MVC, it's gonna get you 2, 5, 6 and 8. And then you can increase your targets a little bit so getting 4, 5, 8 and 10 of your new list is the same talent as getting 2, 5, 6 and 8 as the old list.

You adjust your targets very incrementally until the next thing you know, you're landing guys you never realized you could get to go to your school.

The most important thing in recruiting is to know who you are, get to know who the kids are, and show them your school is a good fit for them.

It's like in the movie Miracle, when Herb Brooks submits his roster and the execs say he's missing some of the best players: "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the RIGHT ones."

IMO the original post/question in this thread is just kind of ridiculous.

(03-29-2022 04:15 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  IMO the original post/question in this thread is just kind of ridiculous.

100%. It’s one far-fetched conspiracy (A-10 going all the way to Tulsa) on top of another (Tulsa leaving the AAC where they house FB, access to 4 TX schools, with peers SMU/Rice/Tulane, and a relatively good media deal).

(03-29-2022 04:01 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(03-28-2022 06:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I do not foresee Belmont men's basketball coach Casey Alexander changing his recruiting strategy. And that could spell trouble when Belmont enters the MVC.

I hope I'm wrong.

For men's hoops, I feel the A10 is the second-best DI-A league (behind the Big East) that does not offer football.

RE: A-10, yeah, that's exactly what I mean. That's our slot in the universe, and always will be.


As for recruiting, I think you keep doing what you're doing. If your list of top 10 targets stays the same in terms of talent, making the same pitch from the OVC is getting you targets 4, 5, 8 and 10. In the MVC, it's gonna get you 3, 6, 7 and 9. And that makes your class better than it was before.

And when you are top half of the MVC, it's gonna get you 2, 5, 6 and 8. And then you can increase your targets a little bit so getting 4, 5, 8 and 10 of your new list is the same talent as getting 2, 5, 6 and 8 as the old list.

You adjust your targets very incrementally until the next thing you know, you're landing guys you never realized you could get to go to your school.

The most important thing in recruiting is to know who you are, get to know who the kids are, and show them your school is a good fit for them.

It's like in the movie Miracle, when Herb Brooks submits his roster and the execs say he's missing some of the best players: "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the RIGHT ones."

This all sounds good, JSchmack, on paper. I'm simply not convinced Casey Alexander and his staff have the background and mindset to successfully execute it.

It is important to note that Belmont men's basketball is extremely provincial in many ways related to recruiting and staff personnel. There are cultural, historical, religious and racial/ethnic elements at play that are not easily understood by those outside the program. As a long-time fan of the Bruin hoops program (and a former adjunct instructor at BU), I see the provincialism — and glaringly so.

The Missouri Valley may as well be the Big Ten compared to the OVC. As such, if the Belmont coaches either won't or can't change (or at least somewhat alter) their approach to recruiting territory and roster composition (in terms of positional balance and talent level), what we saw Murray do to Belmont this year might be child's play when the Bruins join the MVC.

(03-29-2022 05:26 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(03-29-2022 04:15 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  IMO the original post/question in this thread is just kind of ridiculous.

100%. It’s one far-fetched conspiracy (A-10 going all the way to Tulsa) on top of another (Tulsa leaving the AAC where they house FB, access to 4 TX schools, with peers SMU/Rice/Tulane, and a relatively good media deal).

I would think Tulsa is very pleased to be an AAC member.

The A10 and the AAC are two very different animals. The only two leagues that make sense for Tulsa are the AAC and the Mountain West.

(03-29-2022 04:15 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  IMO the original post/question in this thread is just kind of ridiculous.

So are about 95% of the threads on this board.

(03-29-2022 06:25 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  

(03-29-2022 04:15 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  IMO the original post/question in this thread is just kind of ridiculous.

So are about 95% of the threads on this board.

As McCloud used to say-- "There 'ya go!"