Quote:Conscription was introduced in Germany back in 1956, with all men over the age of 18 expected to serve at least one year in the army (although they could claim exemption for moral reasons). But the draft was scrapped to save money, as Germany's military endured a long post-war decline.

But Moscow's increasingly aggressive posture on the global stage has given the Germans reason to reverse this decline.

In recent days, German politicians have called for a revival of some form of mandatory military service, according to France24.

Wolfgang Hellmich, a politician for Chancellor Olaf Scholz's centre-left Social Democrats (SPD), called for an "urgent" debate on the issue in an interview with the Rheinische Post newspaper on Tuesday.

Compulsory military service would help "promote public spirit," he said, also calling for careers in the Bundeswehr to be made more attractive to young people.

The president of Germany's association of reservists has called on the government to reintroduce a "general framework" for military service for both men and women. This could take the form of "one year in which young people who are of age and have completed their education do something for the state and the community", he told the Rheinische Post newspaper.

Members of the CDU, the party of Angela Merkel that is now in the opposition after 16 years in power, have also expressed support for bringing back the draft. Members from the state of Lower Saxony have gone so far as to publish a paper calling for the reintroduction of military service.

Voices from the conservative CDU, now in opposition after 16 years in power under Angela Merkel, have also come out in favour of conscription.

In the state of Lower Saxony, CDU members have put together a paper calling for the reintroduction of military service as "a decisive signal for ensuring an effective military deterrence," according to Die Welt newspaper.

CDU MP Carsten Linnemann told the Bild daily he was in favour of "a year of compulsory service for young men and women after completing their schooling".

This could also take the form of a year of service in the social care sector or the emergency services, he said.

"This would strengthen the resilience of our society to crises" and promote skills that are necessary in "these persistently difficult times", he said.

Opposition to the idea is most fierce among Germany's Social Democrats.

Eva Hoegl, a Social Democrat and the Bundestag's defence commissioner, has called the debate "a theoretical discussion that does not help in the current situation".

And Florian Hahn of the CSU, the CDU's Bavarian sister party, said Germany needs "technology and weapons systems", not just an increased head count.

Since the end of the Cold War, Germany has steadily reduced the size of its army from around 500K at the time of German reunification in 1990 to just 200K today.

Link

I think we should too. It doesnt need to be a huge draft. Just a lottery draft designed to increase our European numbers enough to deter any ideas Putin might have about rebuilding the Soviet empire. The mere restarting of the draft will be a real shot across the bow of Putin's expansionist ideas.

(03-05-2022 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think we should too. It doesnt need to be a huge draft. Just a lottery draft designed to increase our European numbers enough to deter any ideas Putin might have about rebuilding the Soviet empire. The mere restarting of the draft will be a real shot across the bow of Putin's expansionist ideas.

(03-05-2022 02:02 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think we should too. It doesnt need to be a huge draft. Just a lottery draft designed to increase our European numbers enough to deter any ideas Putin might have about rebuilding the Soviet empire. The mere restarting of the draft will be a real shot across the bow of Putin's expansionist ideas.

Perceived weakness invites war far more than strength. Either do that---or get out of NATO/Europe and come home. We can barricade ourselves in the western hemisphere and do just fine. As I said before, Im good either way---but as long as we remain in NATO---we need to project enough strength to deter Putin's adventurism.

(03-05-2022 04:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 02:02 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think we should too. It doesnt need to be a huge draft. Just a lottery draft designed to increase our European numbers enough to deter any ideas Putin might have about rebuilding the Soviet empire. The mere restarting of the draft will be a real shot across the bow of Putin's expansionist ideas.

Perceived weakness invites war far more than strength. Either do that---or get out of NATO/Europe and come home. We can barricade ourselves in the western hemisphere and do just fine. As I said before, Im good either way---but as long as we remain in NATO---we need to project enough strength to deter Putin's adventurism.

Now you are catching on

(03-05-2022 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think we should too. It doesnt need to be a huge draft. Just a lottery draft designed to increase our European numbers enough to deter any ideas Putin might have about rebuilding the Soviet empire. The mere restarting of the draft will be a real shot across the bow of Putin's expansionist ideas.

The US Army could easily get bigger without the draft. All they'd have to do is lower standards a bit.

Any willing recruit is worth a lot more than a draftee. For a lot of reasons.

The Army's current standards are much higher than are needed for the jobs they do. So they have a lot of room to grow without resorting to grabbing kids who don't want to be there.

I’m all for re-instituting the draft if they limited it to the 18-20 year olds who you presently see protesting in the streets.

If you’re 18-20 and you don’t have a job or you have a criminal record, don’t we have job for you. I bet their attitudes would change real quick.

The Marines would have to change their slogan cause I doubt any are “Good Men”

(03-05-2022 08:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think we should too. It doesnt need to be a huge draft. Just a lottery draft designed to increase our European numbers enough to deter any ideas Putin might have about rebuilding the Soviet empire. The mere restarting of the draft will be a real shot across the bow of Putin's expansionist ideas.

The US Army could easily get bigger without the draft. All they'd have to do is lower standards a bit.

Any willing recruit is worth a lot more than a draftee. For a lot of reasons.

The Army's current standards are much higher than are needed for the jobs they do. So they have a lot of room to grow without resorting to grabbing kids who don't want to be there.

The problem is very few want to be there. As a Nation we’ve let our offspring forget what it means to defend their Nation against all threats, foreign and domestic.

Every one of Israel’s high school graduates goes to the military after high school. 30 months for the boys and 24 to 32 months for the girls. We need that same program here in the states.

Our young people could use some focus, discipline and fitness. When they finished their military duty, we would have better workers, better students and better Americans.

Hell, offer all the prisoners in jail a free flight to Ukraine and the promise of a weapon.

(03-05-2022 08:43 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Hell, offer all the prisoners in jail a free flight to Ukraine and the promise of a weapon.

The Dirty Dozen: Reloaded

Like.

(03-05-2022 08:40 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 08:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think we should too. It doesnt need to be a huge draft. Just a lottery draft designed to increase our European numbers enough to deter any ideas Putin might have about rebuilding the Soviet empire. The mere restarting of the draft will be a real shot across the bow of Putin's expansionist ideas.

The US Army could easily get bigger without the draft. All they'd have to do is lower standards a bit.

Any willing recruit is worth a lot more than a draftee. For a lot of reasons.

The Army's current standards are much higher than are needed for the jobs they do. So they have a lot of room to grow without resorting to grabbing kids who don't want to be there.

The problem is very few want to be there. As a Nation we’ve let our offspring forget what it means to defend their Nation against all threats, foreign and domestic.

Every one of Israel’s high school graduates goes to the military after high school. 30 months for the boys and 24 to 32 months for the girls. We need that same program here in the states.

Our young people could use some focus, discipline and fitness. When they finished their military duty, we would have better workers, better students and better Americans.

Agree. Thats part of the reason I really kinda want to bring it back. Its not a bad idea to have a percentage of folks who normally wouldnt serve their nation learn discipline and get skin in the game. I also like the idea of people having to work together with people from all parts of the country---from differing backgrounds---to accomplish shared goals. I think our nation needs that tradition and a larger voting block who has exposure to more points of view.

No offense and I respect everyone’s opinion. But hell no to reinstating the draft. It is easy on a internet forum to volunteer someone’s else’s kids to military service.

Having said that my son may join the military. I have told him I would be honored if he joined but understand you are pledging your life to the service of your country. If he is ok with it so am I.

Every able bodied young man should be drafted, taught how to be a serviceman/woman and placed in ready reserve but not active reserve. Many would love the discipline and those that do should be able to stay in. Those others should be placed in ready reserve for a 6 year period. Teaching those kids to fight a war will help defend our nation if need be.

(03-05-2022 11:31 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Every able bodied young man should be drafted, taught how to be a serviceman/woman and placed in ready reserve but not active reserve. Many would love the discipline and those that do should be able to stay in. Those others should be placed in ready reserve for a 6 year period. Teaching those kids to fight a war will help defend our nation if need be.

Maybe years ago I would agree but not with the crazy shite that is going on in the military now .

(03-05-2022 11:31 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Every able bodied young man should be drafted, taught how to be a serviceman/woman and placed in ready reserve but not active reserve. Many would love the discipline and those that do should be able to stay in. Those others should be placed in ready reserve for a 6 year period. Teaching those kids to fight a war will help defend our nation if need be.

I’ve always felt that it should be mandatory to do a year in the military or the domestic peace corps when you get out of high school. No exceptions or deferments unless you are disabled.

(03-05-2022 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think we should too. It doesnt need to be a huge draft. Just a lottery draft designed to increase our European numbers enough to deter any ideas Putin might have about rebuilding the Soviet empire. The mere restarting of the draft will be a real shot across the bow of Putin's expansionist ideas.

Let's say we do.

Should the draft go by U.S. demographics, you know... so the military will look like America?

Sex
50.8% Female
49.2% Male

Race
60.1% White
18.5% Hispanic
13.4% Black
5.9% Asian
2.1% Other


I mean I'm all for it. Either put up or shut up. Feminists want to push for equality? Let's do it.

Of course the result would be a crappy fighting force, but at least we'll be socially woke.

(03-05-2022 08:27 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I’m all for re-instituting the draft if they limited it to the 18-20 year olds who you presently see protesting in the streets.

If you’re 18-20 and you don’t have a job or you have a criminal record, don’t we have job for you. I bet their attitudes would change real quick.

The Marines would have to change their slogan cause I doubt any are “Good Men”

That would be racist

(03-06-2022 11:02 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 11:31 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Every able bodied young man should be drafted, taught how to be a serviceman/woman and placed in ready reserve but not active reserve. Many would love the discipline and those that do should be able to stay in. Those others should be placed in ready reserve for a 6 year period. Teaching those kids to fight a war will help defend our nation if need be.

I’ve always felt that it should be mandatory to do a year in the military or the domestic peace corps when you get out of high school. No exceptions or deferments unless you are disabled.

Finland has 6 - 12 months of mandatory service at age 18, after which you are placed into the reserves until something like age 50. They put a cap on how many days of reserve training you can be subjected to.

You get to answer some questions about what you want to do, then they assign you. The more combat focused your assignment, the less mandatory time as long as it doesn't require specialized training. My coworker did 6 months, 2 in basic style training and then 4 months of field training on the Arctic circle.

(03-05-2022 08:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 08:40 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 08:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think we should too. It doesnt need to be a huge draft. Just a lottery draft designed to increase our European numbers enough to deter any ideas Putin might have about rebuilding the Soviet empire. The mere restarting of the draft will be a real shot across the bow of Putin's expansionist ideas.

The US Army could easily get bigger without the draft. All they'd have to do is lower standards a bit.

Any willing recruit is worth a lot more than a draftee. For a lot of reasons.

The Army's current standards are much higher than are needed for the jobs they do. So they have a lot of room to grow without resorting to grabbing kids who don't want to be there.

The problem is very few want to be there. As a Nation we’ve let our offspring forget what it means to defend their Nation against all threats, foreign and domestic.

Every one of Israel’s high school graduates goes to the military after high school. 30 months for the boys and 24 to 32 months for the girls. We need that same program here in the states.

Our young people could use some focus, discipline and fitness. When they finished their military duty, we would have better workers, better students and better Americans.

Agree. Thats part of the reason I really kinda want to bring it back. Its not a bad idea to have a percentage of folks who normally wouldnt serve their nation learn discipline and get skin in the game. I also like the idea of people having to work together with people from all parts of the country---from differing backgrounds---to accomplish shared goals. I think our nation needs that tradition and a larger voting block who has exposure to more points of view.

There might be something to that.

But that's an entirely different purpose than expanding the size & effectiveness of the armed forces.

It would also risk changing the focus of the armed forces to social goals rather than on winning wars & protecting against external enemies. I think we've already gone too far in that direction over the last decade.

Also, I think 18-20 is too old for a required national service commitment. Even today, 8% of Americans are already married & starting families at that age. That's higher among women - among 20-year old women today, about 10% are married and 18% are mothers. The last thing we should be doing is discouraging family formation.