The only way a "close to being a power men's basketball league" conference could emerge is if the 10 (or more) best programs not members of the P6 were to combine. These are hoops programs that, generally speaking, can pay a coach $1.5 million or more annually, draw a minimum of 5,000 fans per home game, offer robust budgets, etc.

I would consider this league clearly high-major — but not "power." (Note: There are some other quality programs not included — and deserving, like Charlotte, St. Bonnie, Western Kentucky, St. Mary's, etc. — but this list seems to nicely cover the entire nation geographically, thus offering a "best of the rest" vibe.)

Listed alphabetically

Dayton
Gonzaga
Loyola
Massachusetts
Memphis
New Mexico
San Diego State
SMU
Temple
Tulsa
UAB
UNLV
VCU
Wichita State

(01-12-2022 11:52 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:48 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:45 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:43 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  Narrative or storyline "Powers" - beyond the Autonomy five conferences - will always be subjective.

"Power 6," "Major 7," (whatever you want to call yourselves) loses the point of what "Power" really means.

No one in the autonomy (i.e. Power) 5 will acknowledge you - as part of them.

Big East says otherwise.

The Old Big East was part of the club. Not the new Big East. I realize that Fox tries to promote their asset as a "power" but that's not the case.

Says who? You?

BE is a power conference in hoops, period.

Yes.

But there is a difference between a power conference "in hoops," and a power conference period.

I prefer the Sassy 7.

(01-12-2022 06:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:52 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:48 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:45 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:43 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  Narrative or storyline "Powers" - beyond the Autonomy five conferences - will always be subjective.

"Power 6," "Major 7," (whatever you want to call yourselves) loses the point of what "Power" really means.

No one in the autonomy (i.e. Power) 5 will acknowledge you - as part of them.

Big East says otherwise.

The Old Big East was part of the club. Not the new Big East. I realize that Fox tries to promote their asset as a "power" but that's not the case.

Says who? You?

BE is a power conference in hoops, period.

Yes.

But there is a difference between a power conference "in hoops," and a power conference period.

Agree fully and this explains the differences some of us have on the board.

The Big East is "power" in men's hoops only. However, and as I have noted many times on the board, there are some folks (including some reasonable people) who continue to use "P5" for basketball (I've heard this from announcers and color commentators during multiple ESPN broadcasts, in fact). They would likely argue that a distinction must be made between the five comprehensive "power" leagues and "everybody else."

I sometimes get the impression on the board that some posters who are fans of Big East programs specifically and the Big East as a league in general feel their program/the BE are members of the "big boy club." They are not — and I do not post that to be disrespectful as I strongly cheer for BE member DePaul, have a personal connection to Georgetown and overwhelmingly consider BE men's hoops as "power."

But as I have noted previously: If the big boys struggle to view my Vanderbilt Commodore overall athletics program as a full member of the "power structure," they surely are not going to view the overall DePaul athletics program as a full member.

The Big East is highly unusual in that it plays one of the major men's team sports on the highest level. The closest comparable might be Big West baseball. However, it does seem future Sun Belt men's soccer could be "power" for that sport (not that we'll ever use that term for soccer).

.

According to http://www.bracketmatrix.com/:

7 Big East schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

4 WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

2 (possibly 3) MWC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

6 (possibly 7) MWC or WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

.

Avg. number of NCAA bids per conference in the past two tournaments:

Big East: 4 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

MWC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

WCC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

Like the Big East, the MWC and WCC, combined, have had 4 bids per year

.


If the D1 Big East is considered a basketball "power conference," a D1/FBS MWC with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco as non-FB (or MBB-only) members might be, as well.

The main difference would be that, with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco, the enhanced MWC would be viewed by many as being higher in stature than the Big East, since it would be an all-sports conference, unlike the (non-football) Big East.

Moreover, some might consider an enhanced, expanded MWC to be a "P6" FBS conference at that point, just as the AAC was viewed by some as a rising "P6" FBS conference when it had 4 top 25 football teams and 4 NCAA tournament teams.

.

Whether or not Gonzaga would ever want to give up its current position in the WCC is very uncertain. The main incentives to do so might be financial (a more lucrative broadcasting agreement) and having more of their games broadcast across a larger part of the country.

.

(01-13-2022 03:33 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  .

According to http://www.bracketmatrix.com/:

7 Big East schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

4 WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

2 (possibly 3) MWC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

6 (possibly 7) MWC or WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

.

Avg. number of NCAA bids per conference in the past two tournaments:

Big East: 4 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

MWC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

WCC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

Like the Big East, the MWC and WCC, combined, have had 4 bids per year

.


If the D1 Big East is considered a basketball "power conference," a D1/FBS MWC with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco as non-FB (or MBB-only) members might be, as well.

The main difference would be that, with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco, the enhanced MWC would be viewed by many as being higher in stature than the Big East, since it would be an all-sports conference, unlike the (non-football) Big East.

Moreover, some might consider an enhanced, expanded MWC to be a "P6" FBS conference at that point, just as the AAC was viewed by some as a rising "P6" FBS conference when it had 4 top 25 football teams and 4 NCAA tournament teams.

.

Whether or not Gonzaga would ever want to give up its current position in the WCC is very uncertain. The main incentives to do so might be financial (a more lucrative broadcasting agreement) and having more of their games broadcast across a larger part of the country.

.

How many does it take to be considered in the "viewed by many" category? Those proposed additions don't add any strength to the MWC in any sport besides basketball. And even in basketball, the "enhanced" MWC would have one team projected to be among the top 8 seeds this year, compared to the Big East which has five. It's likely that among the four MWC schools projected to be seeded #9-11, one or more wouldn't make the cut due to the increased intra-conference competition.

In all probability, both the Big East and the MWC would be viewed as "mid-major" basketball conferences, along with the A10 and AAC in the future.

(01-13-2022 03:33 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  .

According to http://www.bracketmatrix.com/:

7 Big East schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

4 WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

2 (possibly 3) MWC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

6 (possibly 7) MWC or WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

.

Avg. number of NCAA bids per conference in the past two tournaments:

Big East: 4 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

MWC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

WCC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

Like the Big East, the MWC and WCC, combined, have had 4 bids per year

.


If the D1 Big East is considered a basketball "power conference," a D1/FBS MWC with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco as non-FB (or MBB-only) members might be, as well.

The main difference would be that, with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco, the enhanced MWC would be viewed by many as being higher in stature than the Big East, since it would be an all-sports conference, unlike the (non-football) Big East.

Moreover, some might consider an enhanced, expanded MWC to be a "P6" FBS conference at that point, just as the AAC was viewed by some as a rising "P6" FBS conference when it had 4 top 25 football teams and 4 NCAA tournament teams.

.

Whether or not Gonzaga would ever want to give up its current position in the WCC is very uncertain. The main incentives to do so might be financial (a more lucrative broadcasting agreement) and having more of their games broadcast across a larger part of the country.

.

2020 Big East was going to be getting per the Matrix 6 bids.
2020 WCC was going to get 3
2020 MWC was going to get 2

don't think you can realistically use 2021 for anything at all. Just a f'd up season all around.

No one with a scintilla of a brain cell would think the MWC with any adds would be a better basketball conference than the Big East. No one.

oh and then you have the seeds
Big East 2019- 5,6,10,11
Big East 2020 proj- 2,2,3,5,8,9
Big East 2021- 5,5,7,12
WCC 2019- 1,11
WCC 2020 proj- 1,5,8
WCC 2021- 1,6
MWC 2019- 7,8
MWC 2020 proj- 2,11
MWC 2021- 6,11
so-
BE 14 bids avg seed of 6.43
WCC 7 bids avg seed of 4.71
MWC 6 bids avg seed of 7.50

even if you combine the 2 which you can't still not like the Big East. Oh, and 2 of the bids for the WCC were by BYU who is gone. It's 5 bids for 4.4 avg seed(of which 3 of the 5 are the Gonzaga 1 seeds).

(01-13-2022 08:27 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 03:33 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  .

According to http://www.bracketmatrix.com/:

7 Big East schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

4 WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

2 (possibly 3) MWC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

6 (possibly 7) MWC or WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

.

Avg. number of NCAA bids per conference in the past two tournaments:

Big East: 4 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

MWC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

WCC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

Like the Big East, the MWC and WCC, combined, have had 4 bids per year

.


If the D1 Big East is considered a basketball "power conference," a D1/FBS MWC with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco as non-FB (or MBB-only) members might be, as well.

The main difference would be that, with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco, the enhanced MWC would be viewed by many as being higher in stature than the Big East, since it would be an all-sports conference, unlike the (non-football) Big East.

Moreover, some might consider an enhanced, expanded MWC to be a "P6" FBS conference at that point, just as the AAC was viewed by some as a rising "P6" FBS conference when it had 4 top 25 football teams and 4 NCAA tournament teams.

.

Whether or not Gonzaga would ever want to give up its current position in the WCC is very uncertain. The main incentives to do so might be financial (a more lucrative broadcasting agreement) and having more of their games broadcast across a larger part of the country.

.

How many does it take to be considered in the "viewed by many" category? Those proposed additions don't add any strength to the MWC in any sport besides basketball. And even in basketball, the "enhanced" MWC would have one team projected to be among the top 8 seeds this year, compared to the Big East which has five. It's likely that among the four MWC schools projected to be seeded #9-11, one or more wouldn't make the cut due to the increased intra-conference competition.

In all probability, both the Big East and the MWC would be viewed as "mid-major" basketball conferences, along with the A10 and AAC in the future.

lol, the Big East has proven, especially now adding UConn back, that they aren't a mid major.

Even if the Big East thought the MWC was a rival then, they would just add Gonzaga and that would be that.

(01-12-2022 12:02 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:58 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The media and stats.

As I said, the NBE is a good, competitive, league.

Who still calls it the new big east? Butler, X and Creighton have now been in the league longer than Louisville and Cincy was.

(01-12-2022 06:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:52 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:48 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:45 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:43 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  Narrative or storyline "Powers" - beyond the Autonomy five conferences - will always be subjective.

"Power 6," "Major 7," (whatever you want to call yourselves) loses the point of what "Power" really means.

No one in the autonomy (i.e. Power) 5 will acknowledge you - as part of them.

Big East says otherwise.

The Old Big East was part of the club. Not the new Big East. I realize that Fox tries to promote their asset as a "power" but that's not the case.

Says who? You?

BE is a power conference in hoops, period.

Yes.

But there is a difference between a power conference "in hoops," and a power conference period.

They are a power conference period. One that just doesn't play football, thats how the other power conferences look at them.

(01-13-2022 08:27 AM)ken d Wrote:  How many does it take to be considered in the "viewed by many" category? Those proposed additions don't add any strength to the MWC in any sport besides basketball. And even in basketball, the "enhanced" MWC would have one team projected to be among the top 8 seeds this year, compared to the Big East which has five. It's likely that among the four MWC schools projected to be seeded #9-11, one or more wouldn't make the cut due to the increased intra-conference competition.

In all probability, both the Big East and the MWC would be viewed as "mid-major" basketball conferences, along with the A10 and AAC in the future.

(01-13-2022 09:20 AM)BigEastMike Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 06:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:52 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:48 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 11:45 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Big East says otherwise.

The Old Big East was part of the club. Not the new Big East. I realize that Fox tries to promote their asset as a "power" but that's not the case.

Says who? You?

BE is a power conference in hoops, period.

Yes.

But there is a difference between a power conference "in hoops," and a power conference period.

They are a power conference period. One that just doesn't play football, thats how the other power conferences look at them.

Do you sincerely consider the Big East a "power conference." That's a new one for me. I've never heard that — not even on this board from a Big East fan.

(01-13-2022 08:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 08:27 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 03:33 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  .

According to http://www.bracketmatrix.com/:

7 Big East schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

4 WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

2 (possibly 3) MWC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

6 (possibly 7) MWC or WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

.

Avg. number of NCAA bids per conference in the past two tournaments:

Big East: 4 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

MWC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

WCC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

Like the Big East, the MWC and WCC, combined, have had 4 bids per year

.


If the D1 Big East is considered a basketball "power conference," a D1/FBS MWC with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco as non-FB (or MBB-only) members might be, as well.

The main difference would be that, with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco, the enhanced MWC would be viewed by many as being higher in stature than the Big East, since it would be an all-sports conference, unlike the (non-football) Big East.

Moreover, some might consider an enhanced, expanded MWC to be a "P6" FBS conference at that point, just as the AAC was viewed by some as a rising "P6" FBS conference when it had 4 top 25 football teams and 4 NCAA tournament teams.

.

Whether or not Gonzaga would ever want to give up its current position in the WCC is very uncertain. The main incentives to do so might be financial (a more lucrative broadcasting agreement) and having more of their games broadcast across a larger part of the country.

.

How many does it take to be considered in the "viewed by many" category? Those proposed additions don't add any strength to the MWC in any sport besides basketball. And even in basketball, the "enhanced" MWC would have one team projected to be among the top 8 seeds this year, compared to the Big East which has five. It's likely that among the four MWC schools projected to be seeded #9-11, one or more wouldn't make the cut due to the increased intra-conference competition.

In all probability, both the Big East and the MWC would be viewed as "mid-major" basketball conferences, along with the A10 and AAC in the future.

lol, the Big East has proven, especially now adding UConn back, that they aren't a mid major.

Even if the Big East thought the MWC was a rival then, they would just add Gonzaga and that would be that.

Agree.

(01-13-2022 08:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 08:27 AM)ken d Wrote:  [quote='Milwaukee' pid='18006312' dateline='1642062784']
.

According to http://www.bracketmatrix.com/:

7 Big East schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

4 WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

2 (possibly 3) MWC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

6 (possibly 7) MWC or WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

.



Avg. number of NCAA bids per conference in the past two tournaments:

Big East: 4 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

MWC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

WCC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

Like the Big East, the MWC and WCC, combined, have had 4 bids per year

.


If the D1 Big East is considered a basketball "power conference," a D1/FBS MWC with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco as non-FB (or MBB-only) members might be, as well.

The main difference would be that, with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco, the enhanced MWC would be viewed by many as being higher in stature than the Big East, since it would be an all-sports conference, unlike the (non-football) Big East.

Moreover, some might consider an enhanced, expanded MWC to be a "P6" FBS conference at that point, just as the AAC was viewed by some as a rising "P6" FBS conference when it had 4 top 25 football teams and 4 NCAA tournament teams.

.

Whether or not Gonzaga would ever want to give up its current position in the WCC is very uncertain. The main incentives to do so might be financial (a more lucrative broadcasting agreement) and having more of their games broadcast across a larger part of the country.

.

How many does it take to be considered in the "viewed by many" category? Those proposed additions don't add any strength to the MWC in any sport besides basketball. And even in basketball, the "enhanced" MWC would have one team projected to be among the top 8 seeds this year, compared to the Big East which has five. It's likely that among the four MWC schools projected to be seeded #9-11, one or more wouldn't make the cut due to the increased intra-conference competition.

In all probability, both the Big East and the MWC would be viewed as "mid-major" basketball conferences, along with the A10 and AAC in the future.

(01-13-2022 08:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  lol, the Big East has proven, especially now adding UConn back, that they aren't a mid major.

No one has said that they are. They've been a basketball power conference since the 1980's, and they were for many years considered a first-tier basketball power conference (as well as a football power (BCS) conference.

But note that some of the "lowly mid-major" conferences have out-performed some of the "power" conferences. In 2021, for example:


.........................................NCAA
.......................................Tourney
..........................................W-L

Atlantic Coast Conference.....: 4-7
Big East Conference.............: 4-4
Big Ten Conference..............: 8-9
American Athletic Conference: 4-2
Missouri Valley Conference:...: 3-2
West Coast Conference.........: 5-2

(01-13-2022 08:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Even if the Big East thought the MWC was a rival then, they would just add Gonzaga and that would be that.

Seems unlikely.

As long as Gonzaga is a Final Four quality program, the Big East would have to view a MWC with Gonzaga in it as a basketball rival, even if the only rival in the MWC were Gonzaga - - that alone would make them a rival, by definition.

Further, it's not clear that the Big East simply "add Gonzaga."

Gonzaga would have little or no reason to even consider joining the Big East, even if they could be paid the huge amount of revenue that would be necessary to offset a large increase in travel expenses.

They would be at a huge competitive disadvantage, because their teams would have to fly 2-3 time zones away to play half their games.

If they were to switch, the MWC would be a much better option for Gonzaga.

.

(01-13-2022 03:33 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  .

According to http://www.bracketmatrix.com/:

7 Big East schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

4 WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

2 (possibly 3) MWC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

6 (possibly 7) MWC or WCC schools are predicted to earn 2022 NCAA bids

.

Avg. number of NCAA bids per conference in the past two tournaments:

Big East: 4 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

MWC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

WCC 2 bids per year (2019 and 2021)

Like the Big East, the MWC and WCC, combined, have had 4 bids per year

.


If the D1 Big East is considered a basketball "power conference," a D1/FBS MWC with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco as non-FB (or MBB-only) members might be, as well.

The main difference would be that, with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and San Francisco, the enhanced MWC would be viewed by many as being higher in stature than the Big East, since it would be an all-sports conference, unlike the (non-football) Big East.

Moreover, some might consider an enhanced, expanded MWC to be a "P6" FBS conference at that point, just as the AAC was viewed by some as a rising "P6" FBS conference when it had 4 top 25 football teams and 4 NCAA tournament teams.

.

Whether or not Gonzaga would ever want to give up its current position in the WCC is very uncertain. The main incentives to do so might be financial (a more lucrative broadcasting agreement) and having more of their games broadcast across a larger part of the country.

.

The MWC's hypothetically adding those three from the WCC would not yield a "power basketball league," Milwaukee. Some might view it as such (and they would all be fans of programs in the MWC or in other non-P6 leagues). Most of us would know better.

To some extent, the MWC (and the current AAC, for that matter) are already viewed as "higher in stature" than the Big East because they both sponsor D-I football. But neither will ever be viewed as "higher in stature" for men's hoops compared to the Big East. The BE offers 11 programs that, collectively, border on outstanding. No future league outside the comprehensive P5 can come anywhere close to the BE in men's basketball.

(01-12-2022 11:14 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’ve considered this scenario too. Gonzaga seems to like calling the shots in the WCC but joining forces with the MWC would grant them long time security.

Its really hard for me to see Gonzaga pulling the trigger and leaving tbh. the Zags are a great program now, but if they fall off/stumble post-Few era it would be a harder fall IMO since they would be going up against larger schools with athletic budgets big enough to sponsor FBS football and more travel in the MWC, or significantly greater travel costs if they tried to go to the Big East.

I think its more likely they use thier position in the WCC as further leverage to get what they want (Confernence Game #'s, Potential Expansion Candidates, OOC scheduling alliances, etc) from the conference while also pressuring other members to step their game up.

Side note, does Gonzaga have a preferred replacement for BYU in the WCC? (like Seattle/GCU/Cal Baptist for example).

(01-13-2022 09:35 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The MWC's hypothetically adding those three from the WCC would not yield a "power basketball league..."

This may be a matter of semantics - and it's unfortunate that anyone started using the term "power leagues" to refer to D1 basketball conferences.

The term "power conference" is usually applied to the P5 FBS conferences (as opposed to G5s), but in basketball, the term "power" is typically replaced with the term "Major" as opposed to "mid-major."

These are things we're all aware of - - nothing new here.

.

I think of it this way: Right now, the MWC is the 8th ranked conference in the Massey Composite. If Gonzaga alone were to join the MWC, it would move ahead of the AAC in the rankings.

The MWC would then become one of the "Major 7" basketball conferences.

If we shift from the term "power conference" to the term "Major basketball conference," I don't believe you would disagree with the notion that the MWC could move up a notch in the rankings, thus becoming a full-fledged "Major basketball conference" by adding Gonzaga.

Another, related topic is the notion that there are higher and lower tiers within the Major 7. The AAC has usually been in the lower tier, and sometimes (e.g., 2019), the PAC-12 has been, as well. The last two NCAA tournaments, the Big East only had 4 NCAA bids, and some non-Big East fans may consider that to have made them a "lower-tier" "Major 7" conference in 2019 and 2021, although they appear to be a middle-of the pack or above-average major basketball conference this year.

The point is simply that the conferences have tended to rise and fall in the rankings and # of NCAA bids from year to year (e.g., the PAC-12 was the dregs of the "Major 7" in 2019 and near the top in 2021).

(01-13-2022 09:35 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  To some extent, the MWC (and the current AAC, for that matter) are already viewed as "higher in stature" than the Big East because they both sponsor D-I football.

Some people seem to think so, though I'm not necessarily one of them.

But neither will ever be viewed as "higher in stature" for men's hoops compared to the Big East. The BE offers 11 programs that, collectively, border on outstanding. No future league outside the comprehensive P5 can come anywhere close to the BE.[/quote]

I respect your opinion, but humbly disagree because "never" is a very long time, and a lot of things could change.

Even in 2021, there were 3 non P5/non-Big East basketball conferences that ended up with better records than the Big East had.

I agree that the Big East is stronger than the others, currently, but don't believe that it would be impossible for another non-P5/non-Big East conference to compete with them on an equal footing at some point.

Any conference that has only earned 4 NCAA bids in each of the past two tournaments can't be said to have an insurmountable lead.

Having said that, however, I do believe that the Big East is likely to be a "Major basketball conference" for many years to come.

.

(01-13-2022 10:03 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  Even in 2021, there were 3 non P5/non-Big East basketball conferences that ended up with better records than the Big East had.

No there weren't.

(01-13-2022 10:03 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 09:35 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The MWC's hypothetically adding those three from the WCC would not yield a "power basketball league..."

This may be a matter of semantics - how we define power leagues.

Let's put it this way. Right now, the MWC is the 8th ranked conference in the Massey Composite. If Gonzaga alone were to join the MWC, it would move ahead of the AAC in the rankings.

The MWC would then become one of the "Major 7" basketball conferences. The term "power conference" is usually applied to the P5 FBS conferences (as opposed to G5s), but in basketball, the term "power" is typically replaced with the term "Major" as opposed to "mid-major."

These are things we're all aware of - - nothing new here.

The "Major 7" usually has 2 or occasionally tiers within it. The AAC has been in the lower tier, and some years, the PAC-12 has been, as well. The last two NCAA tournaments, the Big East only had 4 NCAA bids, and some may consider that to have made them a "lower-tier" "Major 7" conference in 2019 and 2021.

If we shift from the term "power conference" to the term "Major basketball conference," I don't believe you would disagree with the notion that the MWC could move up a notch in the rankings, thus becoming a full-fledged "Major basketball conference" by adding Gonzaga.

(01-13-2022 09:35 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  To some extent, the MWC (and the current AAC, for that matter) are already viewed as "higher in stature" than the Big East because they both sponsor D-I football.

Some people seem to think so, though I'm not necessarily one of them.

But neither will ever be viewed as "higher in stature" for men's hoops compared to the Big East. The BE offers 11 programs that, collectively, border on outstanding. No future league outside the comprehensive P5 can come anywhere close to the BE.

I respect your opinion, but humbly disagree because "never" is a very long time, and a lot of things could change.

Even in 2021, there were 3 non P5/non-Big East basketball conferences that ended up with better records than the Big East had.

I agree that the Big East is stronger than the others, currently, but don't believe that it would be impossible for another non-P5/non-Big East conference to compete with them on an equal footing at some point.

Any conference that has only earned 4 NCAA bids in each of the past two tournaments can't be said to have an insurmountable lead.

Having said that, however, I do believe that the Big East is likely to be a "Major basketball conference" for many years to come.

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And in 2020 they were going to have 6 NCAA bids.

Oh, the WCC you mentioned had BYU getting bid in 2021 and would have in 2020. They're gone.

The AAC isn't a major conference right now.

2021 whole year was a ****** up college basketball season. Take anything from that year with a massive grain of salt. Sadly 2022 may wind up being the exact same thing.

(01-13-2022 10:10 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:03 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  Even in 2021, there were 3 non P5/non-Big East basketball conferences that ended up with better records than the Big East had.

No there weren't.

the clown is talking about just in the NCAA tournament.