Ouch!

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Big (L)east Conference looking like a BCS joke
By Jon Siegel
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published October 18, 2005

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The Big East staged its unofficial championship football game Saturday when West Virginia rallied for a 46-44 triple-overtime win over Louisville. But this showdown with major Bowl Championship Series implications hardly made a ripple on the national TV scene, which focused on Southern Cal-Notre Dame. Even the Washington area did not get the game as the ABC affiliate (WJLA, Ch. 7) showed Penn State-Michigan instead.

In effect, the Big East has become a big afterthought. The conference might still have BCS status, but that has not saved it from a free fall.

West Virginia's victory was entertaining, but to suggest the Mountaineers are now in line for a top bowl is absurd. West Virginia was ranked 17th in the first BCS poll released yesterday. Each of the other five BCS leagues has at least two teams higher.

The poll provides the latest evidence of how ugly the revamped Big East has become following the losses of Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College to the ACC. The conference appears likely to have about as much impact on the race for the national title as a squirt gun on a forest fire.

"We are literally in a state of flux," Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese said recently. "[Although] some people will just say I am trying to make excuses, that is just a fact. We lost three programs that are now ranked in the top 20."

The Big East responded to the ACC's raid by enticing Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida from Conference USA, giving it eight members this season. Indeed, the emasculated league is up and running -- just not very well.

West Virginia, at No. 20, is the only ranked team. The Big East is in jeopardy of falling behind the non-BCS Mountain West Conference as the sixth-highest rated league. The Big East owns a 4-8 record against BCS teams, with the biggest win being West Virginia over Maryland.

Not that the Big East was expected to match the glory days when Miami and Virginia Tech slugged it out and competed for national titles. Instead, Louisville was supposed to become king of the lesser league while giving faltering programs like those at Syracuse and Pitt time to rebuild and young programs like Connecticut and South Florida a few seasons to emerge.

The Cardinals were to give the league at least some legitimacy in the face of mounting criticism that it had been allowed to keep its BCS bid despite its diminished status. The Big East is one of six BCS conferences -- along with the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac 10 -- that earns an automatic bid to one of the top four bowls (Orange, Sugar, Rose and Fiesta). The berth means an excessive payout, millions more than those gained by champions of non-BCS leagues that are forced to settle for lesser bowls.

And the Big East's BCS status appears solid until reassessments are made following the 2009 season.

"They can talk all they want," Tranghese said with a nervous chuckle. "We are going [to a BCS bowl]. It's that simple. We got it. We think we have earned it."

But even with lower expectations, the Big East is not reaching them.

The league has suffered humiliating defeats like Ohio shocking Pitt and Miami of Ohio drubbing Cincinnati 44-16. It has merely an 18-12 record in nonconference games, including six victories over Division I-AA opponents like Wofford, Liberty and Youngstown State, and three over I-A laggard Buffalo.

And Louisville won't save the league either.

The Cardinals narrowly missed an at-large BCS bid last season when they went 12-1 with the only loss to Miami 41-38. This season the would-be new Big East bullies began the season in the top 10 amid some forecasts of an undefeated year. That was before Big East newcomer South Florida, a 20-point underdog, dropkicked the then-No. 9 Cardinals 45-14.

Asked how that defeat might affect the Big East's prestige, Louisville coach Bobby Petrino replied, "I couldn't tell you right now whether it is good or bad." He might have been the only one feeling that way.

"Short term, it may have been a negative for the league," Tranghese conceded. "Long term, I think and most of our members think that South Florida has a huge upside."

The Bulls, now 3-3 after losing to Pitt, provide some reason for optimism. Another rising program is Connecticut, which has a 4-2 record (2-1 in the Big East) in only its third Division I-A season. The Huskies already have conquered the league's soft middle with blowouts of Syracuse and Rutgers.

West Virginia (6-1, 3-0 Big East) showed it was not ready to join the elite with a 34-17 loss to former Big East member and third-ranked Virginia Tech at Mountaineer Field. Even South Florida (1-1 in the league) might compete for the watered-down crown, although the 8-year-old program is far from being the state's best team.

"Sometimes you wonder if [that challenge is] insurmountable," Bulls coach Jim Leavitt said, and that was before his team lost to No. 6 Miami 27-7.

The Big East was desperate to have a strong presence in the state after Miami's departure and is banking on the Bulls eventually challenging the Big Three of Florida, Florida State and Miami. But Leavitt knows he first must win a few off-field battles before crashing the party.

"We haven't been able to beat Miami in recruiting much," Leavitt said. "If Miami comes in and offers [scholarships], they are usually going to get [players] no matter how hard we try."

The league also hopes founding members with new coaches will rise to prominence. Syracuse (1-5, 0-3) is in its first season under former Texas co-defensive coordinator Greg Robinson. Pitt (3-4, 2-1) is hoping for a resurgence under ex-Miami Dolphins coach Dave Wannstedt.

However, the Panthers reflect how out of whack the Big East has become. Last season Pitt won the league's BCS bid, despite being ranked 21st in the BCS standings, and fired coach Walt Harris. The Panthers played Utah, which became the first non-BCS member by finishing sixth in the BCS standings, in the Fiesta Bowl. The Mountain West's Utes, under current Florida coach Urban Meyer, routed Pitt 35-7.

"Last year was bad for everybody," Tranghese said. "We had a league, but it was a year of limbo. Temple [which was kicked out because of poor play, facilities and attendance] was leaving. Boston College was leaving. We were bringing in new members. Connecticut was rushed in a year early so we would have competition. It was a very, very bizarre football season."

This season the conference can't use the same excuse although results have been similar. The Big East's roster is now set for the foreseeable future, but the embarrassing losses keep coming as it continues to be stuck in a credibility crisis.

"We are going to have to win some quality nonconference games this year and next year," Tranghese said. "That is how we are going to get the message across. We are going to have to win what I call some 'statement' games."

And there's no time to waste.

I saw that article in the BE and MWC boards. I'm not going to say anything positive or negative.....so I'll only say.....Ouch!!!!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

bump

West Virginia's victory was entertaining, but to suggest the Mountaineers are now in line for a top bowl is absurd. West Virginia was ranked 17th in the first BCS poll released yesterday. Each of the other five BCS leagues has at least two teams higher.[QUOTE]

As it stand right now ,
The ACC will have 4 teams in the top 15.
The SEC will have 3 teams in the top 15.
The Big 12 will have 2 teams in the top 15.
The Big 10 will have 2 teams in the top 15.
The Pac 10 will have 2 teams in the top 15.
Notre Dame will win out, therefore securing a BCS at large berth.
Therefore leaving one at large berth in the BCS. The other BCS Conference will start their Crusade to stripped the Big East of their automatic BCS bid, after their other teams get snubbed, despite finishing with a one loss record and higher ranking than the BE champion.

It's like the BE conference knows it too. If you have seen their commercial, they practically rub it in everyone's faces "with a BCS berth to the champion." You don't see any of the other BCS conferences mentioning it in theirs.

The BCS was designed out of greed and will be destroyed by its own greed.
The fact the BigEast will once again send a mediocre team to a BCS Bowl just illuminates what is wrong with the BCS.
I think every conference should have to earn it. If the SEC has BCS ranked teams #1-8 then they should get every BCS bid.
To have a BCS quota system is BS. Either let everyone have a legitimate shot at the BCS or just get rid of it.

Here's a question: Which LEAGUE CHAMPION are strongest?

CUSA in 1998
MAC in 1999
CUSA in 2004
Big East in 2005

Guess what, three of those finished extremely high in the rankings and got snubbed in favor of the Big Least. The 2005 version of the Big Least champ will be lucky to finish in the top 20.

Conference USA and Big East comparisons in latest CBS Sportsline poll:

#018 West Virginia
#028 UTEP
#031 Louisville
#046 Tulsa
#047 Southern Miss
#054 Rutgers
#058 Connecticut
#061 South Florida
#067 Marshall
#068 Pittsburgh
#069 UAB
#072 Cincinnati
#073 UCF
#074 Memphis
#075 Houston
#087 Syracuse
#090 Tulane
#092 East Carolina
#093 Southern Methodist
#117 Rice

Sophandros Wrote:Here's a question: Which LEAGUE CHAMPION are strongest?

CUSA in 1998
MAC in 1999
CUSA in 2004
Big East in 2005

Guess what, three of those finished extremely high in the rankings and got snubbed in favor of the Big Least.&nbsp;

a) I'll give you the comparison of league champs for 98 and 04, but the 99 one doesn't fit. MAC champion in 1999 was a good undefeated Marshall side, but the BE champ was an undefeated Virginia Tech that played for the BCS title. Call it a wash if you like for that year, but you can't call that VT program undeserving, either.

Plus, if you intend to use this argument you should also refer to the other years, wherein the BE reps included Miami programs with 1 loss in 2000, 0 losses in 01, and 0 losses heading into the bowl match-up with OSU in 02. Over a more consistent basis the league fielded some decent champions.

b) I'm not arguing over the credibility of the BCS (or lack thereof) or the worthiness of auto bids. However, you can't say the CUSA champ was "snubbed in favor" of the BE champ seeing as the BE champ was guaranteed a spot anyway. Since the BCS is essentially a contractual arrangement between several leagues, 4 bowls and some polls that statement is just as false as saying the WAC was snubbed in favor of the ACC.

c)

Quote:The 2005 version of the Big Least champ will be lucky to finish in the top 20.

I'm to assume, then, that you feel WVU will lose another game? If not, they're already ranked in the top 20 in most polls. If they win out I can't see them dropping, and they'll more likely end up in the top 15.

I looked for this article on the Big East boards but almost didn't find it. Then I found it on the SMACK board.

C-USA fans talk smack back and forth with Big East fans...

Big East fans recieve "smack" from the national media.

How are we the dilusional ones again?

GunnerFan Wrote:

Sophandros Wrote:Here's a question: Which LEAGUE CHAMPION are strongest?

CUSA in 1998
MAC in 1999
CUSA in 2004
Big East in 2005

Guess what, three of those finished extremely high in the rankings and got snubbed in favor of the Big Least.&nbsp;

a) I'll give you the comparison of league champs for 98 and 04, but the 99 one doesn't fit. MAC champion in 1999 was a good undefeated Marshall side, but the BE champ was an undefeated Virginia Tech that played for the BCS title. Call it a wash if you like for that year, but you can't call that VT program undeserving, either.

Plus, if you intend to use this argument you should also refer to the other years, wherein the BE reps included Miami programs with 1 loss in 2000, 0 losses in 01, and 0 losses heading into the bowl match-up with OSU in 02. Over a more consistent basis the league fielded some decent champions.

b) I'm not arguing over the credibility of the BCS (or lack thereof) or the worthiness of auto bids. However, you can't say the CUSA champ was "snubbed in favor" of the BE champ seeing as the BE champ was guaranteed a spot anyway. Since the BCS is essentially a contractual arrangement between several leagues, 4 bowls and some polls that statement is just as false as saying the WAC was snubbed in favor of the ACC.

c)

Quote:The 2005 version of the Big Least champ will be lucky to finish in the top 20.

I'm to assume, then, that you feel WVU will lose another game? If not, they're already ranked in the top 20 in most polls. If they win out I can't see them dropping, and they'll more likely end up in the top 15.

Good point about the Vick VPI team, but the real point of my post is that at least four times (including Utah of last year, obviously), there have been non-BCS conference champions who will be stronger than this year's Big Least champion.

As was stated above, the four slots should go to the top eight ranked conference champs or something similar, like just the top eight ranked teams. Just make it open to everyone instead of having this quota nonsense.

Sophandros Wrote:... the real point of my post is that at least four times (including Utah of last year, obviously), there have been non-BCS conference champions who will be stronger than this year's Big Least champion.

That may be true, but then again teams from past years can't compete for this year's BCS spots, can they?

The debate you need to take up is whether or not a 2005 champ from any of the "non-BCS" leagues is/will be better than any of the other BCS selections, BE, SEC or otherwise. If WVU wins out, I'll contend there won't be a "non-BCS" program better than they. Also deserving of a BCS berth, perhaps, but probably not better than WVU. Let's see how things play out as we're not at that point yet.

Quote:As was stated above, the four slots should go to the top eight ranked conference champs or something similar, like just the top eight ranked teams.&nbsp; Just make it open to everyone instead of having this quota nonsense.

But we know that's not going to happen, now, don't we?

So long as there is a BCS there will be a facet of imbalance or nonsense. As I said above the BCS is an agreement between select parties, not a wholesale deal for all of D1. There will be no sincere interest in acheiving the level of parity desired by outsiders, since the BCS is in essence a way of the insiders to celebrate their being who they are. Thus I find the idea of applying solutions within the BCS framework, well, futile.

I don't think anyone really expected the Big East to be a great football league. The Big 5 conferences are on a totally different level. They built a very tough basketball league though.

Quote:How are we the dilusional ones again?

I don't know. Maybe people call you "delusional" because you can't spell the word when you're trying to say someone else is....

:laugh:

Better to be an afterthought then no thought of at all.

It is going to really take some time for Big East to get better.

I give the ACC props cause they took the 3 strongest teams all ranked in top 11 nationally (BC,UM,VT)

It tooked the Big East 9 years to be 4th best in Sagarin rating (All-time best) I hope the New Big East can cut that in half before the 2007 evoluation


Pitt and Syracuse are in rebuild modes

WVU and UL are the best right now

I say give the league 4 years with BCS bid before we start the bashing

Cat's_Claw Wrote:Better to be an afterthought then no thought of at all.

I think a Cincy fan saying anything about an aftertought is :laugh:

Thanks for the laugh! :rofl:

Quote:I give the ACC props cause they took the 3 strongest teams all ranked in top 11 nationally (BC,UM,VT)

This is what really kills be about all this. And this isn't a defense of the Big East.

Boston College finished higher than FOURTH in the Big East two times in the 13 year history of the league.

In 1993 they finished third.
In 2004 they finished in a four way tie for first.

Every single other year they finished fourth or WORSE.

It is complete ACC brainwash to even try to insinuate that Boston College is, was or ever would have been one of the top three Big East teams.

The fact of the matter is West Virginia finished higher than BC in the Big East EVERY SINGLE SEASON except two.
In 2001, Rodriguez's first season was a disaster, and 2004 when they tied.

BC hadn't finished higher than Syracuse or Pitt in the same year EVER.

Amazing how stellar the ACC is, considering its top three teams are former Big East squads.

I think the Big East deserves LONG consideration for what the ACC did. For if the Big East was the same league today, they'd have four teams in the top 25 right now.

The Big East may never recover. But they deserve at least five years to get their feet under them due to what the ACC did.

Herd Swimming Wrote:The Big East may never recover. But they deserve at least five years to get their feet under them due to what the ACC did.

The ACC didn't do anything wrong. The Big East is not at the same level as the ACC. $$$, academics, T.V exposure, etc. I see nothing wrong with what the ACC did. They only took 3 schools. The Big East will just have to rebuild like any other business after taking a loss.

KnightLight Wrote:The Big East is in jeopardy of falling behind the non-BCS Mountain West Conference as the sixth-highest rated league.

That is a very real possibility. The MWC can still add a lot of beef but there is nobody that the BE can add that is going to help much if at all. Actually the teams I've heard mentioned for future Big East membership would make that league look even weaker if they were added. I think that when it comes time for the evaluations the MWC will have easily surpassed the "Big Least".