(10-25-2021 09:25 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  Add WKU and Illinois State. Move Toledo to the East with the other Ohio schools.

Toledo is not going to the MAC East. Its never been proposed. Its always been BGSU going to the MAC West and uniting a rivalry there. First time I have ever heard it on the message boards even as a concept has just been the last couple of weeks.

The goal has always been to distribute the MAC more evenly across the footprint and that is where adding to the East helps by moving BGSU west since they are only 20 miles from Toledo and close to MAC West schools.

(10-25-2021 09:25 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  Add WKU and Illinois State. Move Toledo to the East with the other Ohio schools.

I don't know what Illinois state gets us that UNI does not.

(10-25-2021 09:42 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 08:58 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  If the MAC added WKU, MTSU, UMass and Delaware, I would be highly pleased for the Blue Raider athletics program. But four additions seems less likely to happen than no additions.

Going to 16 makes football scheduling more difficult. ESPN would have to kick in *a lot* of cash to make that happen. You go from 4 non conference games to three which means either "give up a pay check game, give up an FCS home game, give up a competitive G5 game"

West: ISU, NIU, BSU, WMU, CMU, EMU, UT, BGSU
East: WKU, MIA, OU, KENT, UA, Buffalo, UMass, UDel

16 you would have to go to a 9 game MAC FB schedule which I would argue would be appropriate given the P5s are going to 9 so won't be playing the G conferences as much.

(10-25-2021 09:42 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:01 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 08:12 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 08:05 AM)_sturt_ Wrote:  I can vouch for the Akron financial concerns, fwiw. A tenured professor friend from there just called me Friday, and we talked about some opportunities at some other schools she's considering because she feels so vulnerable there.

Oh wow. Not good. The trickle down effect usually always affects athletics. And that's a shame. Hope they can keep it together. They have a beautiful stadium. Probably best in the MAC.

And sometimes a school may come out the other side from any unrest or such fiscal concerns, but, they are crippled thereafter, and have to rebuild over a span of years holistically. Akron sounded like they saw value to athletics (I remember ranting how ambiguous, cliched, and undefined their response was in the face of their financial situation). While not Chicago State, while Akron could crawl out from this, it’s a different story entirely if them still being a recognized peer to the likes of other MAC members survive. That Akron’s woes can’t hold back the rest of the conference.

I was surprised when they built that new stadium. I thought that was an ideal time to drop football and seek membership in the Horizon or Missouri Valley.

Well, if it helps at all that Stadium is a lemon. UB's stadium is terrible but it's a 30 years old track venue and holding up better than infocision.

So that stadium should not be locking you into FBS

(10-25-2021 09:46 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:25 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  Add WKU and Illinois State. Move Toledo to the East with the other Ohio schools.

I don't know what Illinois state gets us that UNI does not.

...why, the Battle of the RedBirds and the RedHawks, duh!

(10-25-2021 09:37 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:44 AM)mlb Wrote:  I heard a podcast last week that said there was no interest in expansion. Nobody wants to raise their travel budgets.

I don't believe this for a second. I do believe that expansion, without compensation from ESPN, is probably not going to happen but if the MAC leadership is worth a spit they are pushing ESPN for a bump to add "the right" teams.

I agree with Bull on that. And I do think UMASS or Delaware would be an interesting addition to the MAC along with WKU. You have to think that Delaware is likely thinking FBS now that JMU is going. I can remember back years ago when then AD Terry Holland of ECU was lobbying CUSA to go east with JMU and Delaware to go with ODU. Of course shortly after ODU was added ECU went to the American.

(10-25-2021 09:50 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:37 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:44 AM)mlb Wrote:  I heard a podcast last week that said there was no interest in expansion. Nobody wants to raise their travel budgets.

I don't believe this for a second. I do believe that expansion, without compensation from ESPN, is probably not going to happen but if the MAC leadership is worth a spit they are pushing ESPN for a bump to add "the right" teams.

I agree with Bull on that. And I do think UMASS or Delaware would be an interesting addition to the MAC along with WKU. You have to think that Delaware is likely thinking FBS now that JMU is going. I can remember back years ago when then AD Terry Holland of ECU was lobbying CUSA to go east with JMU and Delaware to go with ODU. Of course shortly after ODU was added ECU went to the American.

That would be an ok "Or"... Maybe you go after Delaware now because UMass is not going anywhere and can be a backup in the event Akron or EMU fall...

(10-25-2021 09:50 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:37 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:44 AM)mlb Wrote:  I heard a podcast last week that said there was no interest in expansion. Nobody wants to raise their travel budgets.

I don't believe this for a second. I do believe that expansion, without compensation from ESPN, is probably not going to happen but if the MAC leadership is worth a spit they are pushing ESPN for a bump to add "the right" teams.

I agree with Bull on that. And I do think UMASS or Delaware would be an interesting addition to the MAC along with WKU. You have to think that Delaware is likely thinking FBS now that JMU is going. I can remember back years ago when then AD Terry Holland of ECU was lobbying CUSA to go east with JMU and Delaware to go with ODU. Of course shortly after ODU was added ECU went to the American.

Could the MAC just look at UMass/UDel in that case then? Academics that will make the MAC presidents happy, especially those in the east.

The MAC can thing about it for a while however its getting to the point where TV/CFP money is enough of a lure to make something like this happen. Boston and Philly are two top 10 TV markets.

(10-25-2021 09:50 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:37 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:44 AM)mlb Wrote:  I heard a podcast last week that said there was no interest in expansion. Nobody wants to raise their travel budgets.

I don't believe this for a second. I do believe that expansion, without compensation from ESPN, is probably not going to happen but if the MAC leadership is worth a spit they are pushing ESPN for a bump to add "the right" teams.

I agree with Bull on that. And I do think UMASS or Delaware would be an interesting addition to the MAC along with WKU. You have to think that Delaware is likely thinking FBS now that JMU is going. I can remember back years ago when then AD Terry Holland of ECU was lobbying CUSA to go east with JMU and Delaware to go with ODU. Of course shortly after ODU was added ECU went to the American.

...I am pretty convinced at this point that ESPN has led the charge for this whole realignment (wow breaking news, y'all...), and with that, I'm sure they have hashed out all the scenarios well in advance - these scenarios have probably been played out in ESPN's war room or whatever well before the UT-OU move, but there were obviously 'Plans B, C, D' in place as well (obviously the AAC raids BIG XII, nope - then AAC raids MWC, nope - then AAC raids CUSA) It would have been interesting to see the 'dominos' if the AAC would have successfully picked up the top half of the BIG XII, and then the action (if any) of the BIG XII remnants (rebuild or take flight as C-USA teams have done?).

(10-25-2021 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:56 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:52 AM)RamblinRedWolf Wrote:  I think WKU and Middle aren’t going to leave without the other (which is what we saw Happen in 2013 when middle left the belt and Hilltoppers quickly followed).

Also, Matt Brown late last week stated he hadn’t heard anything significant happening on the MAC front and I don’t think we’ll see them do anything until the Belt has officially made their moves

I don't know. With the dire situation happening in CUSA right now, I'm not sure there is any loyalty to anyone at this point. It's about survival now for some of these schools.

If Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky stay in CUSA, CUSA's situation is a lot less dire.

It is less dire in a sense of the league surviving. It is still really bad in a sense that he same awful leadership and media deal are still in place and all of the rumored targets would need years to be competitive in FBS.

(10-25-2021 08:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 08:44 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  There is a push by some UMass fans to go to the MAC for all sports. Both the AD and HC have mentioned the need for a conference and both mention the MAC. Season ticket holders will have a zoom or fb meeting with the AD latter this week.

No offense, but I just do not see why the MAC would add UMass.

If it's an all-sports move (as opposed to football-only), I could definitely see it happening.

It all goes back to my oldest rule in the book about conference realignment: Think like a university president and not like a fan.

The MAC - the quintessential directional school league - being able to add a flagship school in a major state that's considered to be the center of higher education in this country along with being in the top 70 of the US News rankings is something that I could see the university presidents being *very* attracted to if we're talking about a full all-sports membership.

Sure, when you're looking at a football-only membership, you can just evaluate the football product alone and say, "No thanks", but an all-sports membership is more about the institution overall and, on that front, UMass is a top tier institution.

If UMass now considers football conference membership important enough that it's willing to give up A-10 basketball, then it makes sense for the MAC. Putting aside football, if UMass could ever have a decent basketball program again, then that's arguably worth more to the MAC than any single realistic all-sports move that they could make. Top-ranked flagship schools in major states are very few and far between in the conference realignment market - they are disproportionately more valuable for expansion purposes with simply a competent program in either football or basketball.

(10-25-2021 09:59 AM)freshtop Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:56 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:52 AM)RamblinRedWolf Wrote:  I think WKU and Middle aren’t going to leave without the other (which is what we saw Happen in 2013 when middle left the belt and Hilltoppers quickly followed).

Also, Matt Brown late last week stated he hadn’t heard anything significant happening on the MAC front and I don’t think we’ll see them do anything until the Belt has officially made their moves

I don't know. With the dire situation happening in CUSA right now, I'm not sure there is any loyalty to anyone at this point. It's about survival now for some of these schools.

If Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky stay in CUSA, CUSA's situation is a lot less dire.

It is less dire in a sense of the league surviving. It is still really bad in a sense that he same awful leadership and media deal are still in place and all of the rumored targets would need years to be competitive in FBS.

The MAC will be a better option than CUSA 4.0 indefinitely.

(10-25-2021 09:57 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:50 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:37 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:44 AM)mlb Wrote:  I heard a podcast last week that said there was no interest in expansion. Nobody wants to raise their travel budgets.

I don't believe this for a second. I do believe that expansion, without compensation from ESPN, is probably not going to happen but if the MAC leadership is worth a spit they are pushing ESPN for a bump to add "the right" teams.

I agree with Bull on that. And I do think UMASS or Delaware would be an interesting addition to the MAC along with WKU. You have to think that Delaware is likely thinking FBS now that JMU is going. I can remember back years ago when then AD Terry Holland of ECU was lobbying CUSA to go east with JMU and Delaware to go with ODU. Of course shortly after ODU was added ECU went to the American.

Could the MAC just look at UMass/UDel in that case then? Academics that will make the MAC presidents happy, especially those in the east.

The MAC can thing about it for a while however its getting to the point where TV/CFP money is enough of a lure to make something like this happen. Boston and Philly are two top 10 TV markets.

Take those two for all-sports, move BGSU to the West.

Now you’re looking at the same ideal lineup of ten years ago, except UDel has more football success than Temple (and a 22-14 record vs the Owls).

(10-25-2021 09:49 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:42 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:01 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 08:12 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 08:05 AM)_sturt_ Wrote:  I can vouch for the Akron financial concerns, fwiw. A tenured professor friend from there just called me Friday, and we talked about some opportunities at some other schools she's considering because she feels so vulnerable there.

Oh wow. Not good. The trickle down effect usually always affects athletics. And that's a shame. Hope they can keep it together. They have a beautiful stadium. Probably best in the MAC.

And sometimes a school may come out the other side from any unrest or such fiscal concerns, but, they are crippled thereafter, and have to rebuild over a span of years holistically. Akron sounded like they saw value to athletics (I remember ranting how ambiguous, cliched, and undefined their response was in the face of their financial situation). While not Chicago State, while Akron could crawl out from this, it’s a different story entirely if them still being a recognized peer to the likes of other MAC members survive. That Akron’s woes can’t hold back the rest of the conference.

I was surprised when they built that new stadium. I thought that was an ideal time to drop football and seek membership in the Horizon or Missouri Valley.

Well, if it helps at all that Stadium is a lemon. UB's stadium is terrible but it's a 30 years old track venue and holding up better than infocision.

So that stadium should not be locking you into FBS

Buffalo looks fine from the outside.

(10-25-2021 09:59 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:50 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:37 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:44 AM)mlb Wrote:  I heard a podcast last week that said there was no interest in expansion. Nobody wants to raise their travel budgets.

I don't believe this for a second. I do believe that expansion, without compensation from ESPN, is probably not going to happen but if the MAC leadership is worth a spit they are pushing ESPN for a bump to add "the right" teams.

I agree with Bull on that. And I do think UMASS or Delaware would be an interesting addition to the MAC along with WKU. You have to think that Delaware is likely thinking FBS now that JMU is going. I can remember back years ago when then AD Terry Holland of ECU was lobbying CUSA to go east with JMU and Delaware to go with ODU. Of course shortly after ODU was added ECU went to the American.

...I am pretty convinced at this point that ESPN has led the charge for this whole realignment (wow breaking news, y'all...), and with that, I'm sure they have hashed out all the scenarios well in advance - these scenarios have probably been played out in ESPN's war room or whatever well before the UT-OU move, but there were obviously 'Plans B, C, D' in place as well (obviously the AAC raids BIG XII, nope - then AAC raids MWC, nope - then AAC raids CUSA) It would have been interesting to see the 'dominos' if the AAC would have successfully picked up the top half of the BIG XII, and then the action (if any) of the BIG XII remnants (rebuild or take flight as C-USA teams have done?).

That comment (by Bowlsby maybe) that the "market" was saying bigger was better sure sounds like the hand of ESPN. 5 years ago Fox and ESPN fought expansion of the Big 12 tooth and nail. AAC to 14 instead of 12 was surprising.

Another reason to stay very very far away from anything related to Liberty…….

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-l...l-assaults

Herd76, how hard is the BB coach pushing for the MAC with a friendly on the Marshall board.

(10-25-2021 07:56 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:52 AM)RamblinRedWolf Wrote:  I think WKU and Middle aren’t going to leave without the other (which is what we saw Happen in 2013 when middle left the belt and Hilltoppers quickly followed).

Also, Matt Brown late last week stated he hadn’t heard anything significant happening on the MAC front and I don’t think we’ll see them do anything until the Belt has officially made their moves

I don't know. With the dire situation happening in CUSA right now, I'm not sure there is any loyalty to anyone at this point. It's about survival now for some of these schools.

Right - if I'm running either of those schools, I'm not tying myself to anyone.

(10-25-2021 09:57 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:50 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:37 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 07:44 AM)mlb Wrote:  I heard a podcast last week that said there was no interest in expansion. Nobody wants to raise their travel budgets.

I don't believe this for a second. I do believe that expansion, without compensation from ESPN, is probably not going to happen but if the MAC leadership is worth a spit they are pushing ESPN for a bump to add "the right" teams.

I agree with Bull on that. And I do think UMASS or Delaware would be an interesting addition to the MAC along with WKU. You have to think that Delaware is likely thinking FBS now that JMU is going. I can remember back years ago when then AD Terry Holland of ECU was lobbying CUSA to go east with JMU and Delaware to go with ODU. Of course shortly after ODU was added ECU went to the American.

That would be an ok "Or"... Maybe you go after Delaware now because UMass is not going anywhere and can be a backup in the event Akron or EMU fall...

Perhaps the thought is Delaware is going be more competitive because of the New Jersey recruiting grounds like Temple was in the MAC. They don't have the A10 membership hang up of UMass.

WKU basketball obviously is the plum prize and whomever comes second be it MT, Del, UMass, FIU, ISU doesn't matter that much.

(10-25-2021 09:14 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  The MAC shouldn't be going to 16.

Yes, that's crazy talk.

(10-25-2021 09:42 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:25 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  Add WKU and Illinois State. Move Toledo to the East with the other Ohio schools.

Toledo is not going to the MAC East. Its never been proposed. Its always been BGSU going to the MAC West and uniting a rivalry there.

"It has always been" according to who? I don't know any Bowling Green fans who are unhappy in the East. Sticking Bowling Green back in the West may be something you would like to see, but I don't see our fans talking about that. It seems to me our fans prefer the East.

(10-25-2021 10:04 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  It all goes back to my oldest rule in the book about conference realignment: Think like a university president and not like a fan.

The MAC - the quintessential directional school league - being able to add a flagship school in a major state that's considered to be the center of higher education in this country along with being in the top 70 of the US News rankings is something that I could see the university presidents being *very* attracted to if we're talking about a full all-sports membership.

Sure, when you're looking at a football-only membership, you can just evaluate the football product alone and say, "No thanks", but an all-sports membership is more about the institution overall and, on that front, UMass is a top tier institution.

If UMass now considers football conference membership important enough that it's willing to give up A-10 basketball, then it makes sense for the MAC. Putting aside football, if UMass could ever have a decent basketball program again, then that's arguably worth more to the MAC than any single realistic all-sports move that they could make. Top-ranked flagship schools in major states are very few and far between in the conference realignment market - they are disproportionately more valuable for expansion purposes with simply a competent program in either football or basketball.

Well said.