Oh of course it's money.

Golden Rule: Those with the gold, makes the rules. I've been lamenting that my school gets the raw deal, no one wants to play us and we can't build a schedule that ensures we make an NCAA Tournament... my school buys SWAC/MEAC teams without returning trips all the time.

I'd be fully in favor of four OOC games per team, per year, that an NCAA computer generates and just sends the top half to play road games at the bottom half conference wise, and the top half to play at the bottom half team wise. It would be so much better for college basketball.

If the Yankees got to make their own schedule, would they ever visit Kansas City?

(09-26-2021 09:57 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You guys should look at the SWAC scheduling. They have done some amazing and innovative things to reduce travel dramatically.

First they play divisional (2/3rds of games against your division). Second cross-division matches in sports like volleyball are played at a neutral site between the schools. Look at the matches on Saturday, October 9, 2021, all in Jackson, MS.

https://swac.org/calendar.aspx?path=wvball

It's similar in other sports. This idea of saving on travel is born out of ignorance. The SWAC is one of the best managed conferences, from marketing to operations. Why would any HBCU want to leave that?

Yes, that ingenuity is a case of necessity being the mother of invention. SWAC schools have been used to getting things done with duct tape and bailing wire for a long long time.

(09-26-2021 10:03 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  Does the swac still not participate in the fcs playoffs? That could be a factor.

The SWAC does not play in the FCS playoffs.

But, I find that hard to believe would be a factor for PV and TS. It's not like they've been winning SWAC football titles and then chafing at not being able to go to the playoffs. Texas Southern last won the SWAC title in 2010, and that was stripped two years later because of NCAA violations. They haven't officially won the title since 1968.

For PV, it's been since 1964.

(09-26-2021 07:22 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I've worked a bunch of SWAC games through the years. I've always gotten the sense that the SWAC (like a lot of conferences) are built into two tiers - schools that spend a bit of money on athletics (TSU, PVAM, Southern, Grambling and Jackson State in football, and Alabama State), and then several who do not (MVSU, Alabama A&M, Alcorn, Arkansas Pine Bluff). We're not talking about a massive budget difference, but perhaps TSU and PVAM want to compete in a conference where schools are spending a bit more on athletics?

I personally think it's unlikely just because the HBCU's won't want to give up their traditions. But this person told me the Southland Conference wants to get back to eight football teams, and TSU and PVAM are certainly a good geographic fit for the six remaining Southland schools that play football. If TSU and PVAM can still play a Grambling or Southern or Jackson State, then maybe it's something they're seriously considering?

I put the odds of this happening as pretty low, but you do touch on one issue: Texas is a much wealthier state than the other SWAC states, save now for Florida with the new additions. While they don't win anything on the football field in the SWAC, institutionally, TS and PV are thriving. Both are approaching 10,000 students and are clearly growing.

That puts them well ahead of most other SWAC schools - only Jackson State and FAMU are similar.

Most of the other SWAC schools are like Southern and Grambling, hovering between 5,000 and 7,000 in enrollment, and stagnant.

When I came to Southern in 1995, its enrollment was 10,400 and it boasted about being the largest HBCU in the country. These days its enrollment is less than 7,000. Grambling's is around 5,400.

So institutionally, the two Texas HBCUs may see themselves as going in another direction. While some Southland schools have low enrollment, more are in the same ballpark, or better, than TX and PV.

(09-26-2021 11:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-26-2021 07:22 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I've worked a bunch of SWAC games through the years. I've always gotten the sense that the SWAC (like a lot of conferences) are built into two tiers - schools that spend a bit of money on athletics (TSU, PVAM, Southern, Grambling and Jackson State in football, and Alabama State), and then several who do not (MVSU, Alabama A&M, Alcorn, Arkansas Pine Bluff). We're not talking about a massive budget difference, but perhaps TSU and PVAM want to compete in a conference where schools are spending a bit more on athletics?

I personally think it's unlikely just because the HBCU's won't want to give up their traditions. But this person told me the Southland Conference wants to get back to eight football teams, and TSU and PVAM are certainly a good geographic fit for the six remaining Southland schools that play football. If TSU and PVAM can still play a Grambling or Southern or Jackson State, then maybe it's something they're seriously considering?

I put the odds of this happening as pretty low, but you do touch on one issue: Texas is a much wealthier state than the other SWAC states, save now for Florida with the new additions. While they don't win anything on the football field in the SWAC, institutionally, TS and PV are thriving. Both are approaching 10,000 students and are clearly growing.

That puts them well ahead of most other SWAC schools - only Jackson State and FAMU are similar.

Most of the other SWAC schools are like Southern and Grambling, hovering between 5,000 and 7,000 in enrollment, and stagnant.

When I came to Southern in 1995, its enrollment was 10,400 and it boasted about being the largest HBCU in the country. These days its enrollment is less than 7,000. Grambling's is around 5,400.

So institutionally, the two Texas HBCUs may see themselves as going in another direction. While some Southland schools have low enrollment, more are in the same ballpark, or better, than TX and PV.

Are the endowment #s publicly available for some of these HBCUs correct? Southern and Grambling both under $10mm, Mississippi Valley under $3mm. Jerry Rice could probably quadruple that and not feel much of a dent to his portfolio.

(09-26-2021 11:52 PM)VCE Wrote:  

(09-26-2021 11:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-26-2021 07:22 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I've worked a bunch of SWAC games through the years. I've always gotten the sense that the SWAC (like a lot of conferences) are built into two tiers - schools that spend a bit of money on athletics (TSU, PVAM, Southern, Grambling and Jackson State in football, and Alabama State), and then several who do not (MVSU, Alabama A&M, Alcorn, Arkansas Pine Bluff). We're not talking about a massive budget difference, but perhaps TSU and PVAM want to compete in a conference where schools are spending a bit more on athletics?

I personally think it's unlikely just because the HBCU's won't want to give up their traditions. But this person told me the Southland Conference wants to get back to eight football teams, and TSU and PVAM are certainly a good geographic fit for the six remaining Southland schools that play football. If TSU and PVAM can still play a Grambling or Southern or Jackson State, then maybe it's something they're seriously considering?

I put the odds of this happening as pretty low, but you do touch on one issue: Texas is a much wealthier state than the other SWAC states, save now for Florida with the new additions. While they don't win anything on the football field in the SWAC, institutionally, TS and PV are thriving. Both are approaching 10,000 students and are clearly growing.

That puts them well ahead of most other SWAC schools - only Jackson State and FAMU are similar.

Most of the other SWAC schools are like Southern and Grambling, hovering between 5,000 and 7,000 in enrollment, and stagnant.

When I came to Southern in 1995, its enrollment was 10,400 and it boasted about being the largest HBCU in the country. These days its enrollment is less than 7,000. Grambling's is around 5,400.

So institutionally, the two Texas HBCUs may see themselves as going in another direction. While some Southland schools have low enrollment, more are in the same ballpark, or better, than TX and PV.

Are the endowment #s publicly available for some of these HBCUs correct? Southern and Grambling both under $10mm, Mississippi Valley under $3mm. Jerry Rice could probably quadruple that and not feel much of a dent to his portfolio.

Yes, sadly, those endowment numbers are correct.

And that's another difference. The two Texas HBCUs have endowments of $130m and $60m respectively. That's very respectable for an FCS school. Heck as I joked the other day, PV's $130m endowment is almost as much as UCF's.

Again, there is a discrepancy with other SWAC schools. Surprisingly, despite their enrollment being much lower, both Alabama AM and Alabama State have healthy endowments similar to the Texas schools. FAMU and Jackson State do as well.

But the Louisiana, Arkansas and other Mississippi schools have basically no endowment at all.

(09-26-2021 05:07 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Walking from the Rice-Texas Southern game, a connected Rice fan I know told me the rumor he is hearing is Texas Southern and Prairie View are going to go to the Southland Conference. I told him really? Their fans would support that move?

But this source is solid and knows his stuff. And I know where he would have received the information, so I believe there is some substance to it.

Interesting. With more and more HBCU schools leaving HBCU conferences and joining traditional conferences, it is plausible they could leave. Two schools in Houston and one 30 miles NW of Houston will result in reduced costs. And if the Div 2 schools move up, as expected, this could be one of the stronger FCS conferences.

(09-26-2021 10:20 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  I'm not going to do the research, but I feel confident in saying that only one P5/BCS team has played a road game at a SWAC gym in the last 25 years.

And the Pac-12 is doing 12 in the next four years.

Honestly, it makes me think that EVERY CONFERENCE should be doing this, and the NCAA should be computer generating OOC schedules so these things happen.

Kinda irritating to me that Arizona and Arizona State used to alternate playing a game in Flagstaff yearly, until Lute Olson whined that no big time program could ever be successful playing away games at a "small school" and now they are traveling half-way across the country to do exactly that.

(09-27-2021 06:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-26-2021 11:52 PM)VCE Wrote:  

(09-26-2021 11:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-26-2021 07:22 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I've worked a bunch of SWAC games through the years. I've always gotten the sense that the SWAC (like a lot of conferences) are built into two tiers - schools that spend a bit of money on athletics (TSU, PVAM, Southern, Grambling and Jackson State in football, and Alabama State), and then several who do not (MVSU, Alabama A&M, Alcorn, Arkansas Pine Bluff). We're not talking about a massive budget difference, but perhaps TSU and PVAM want to compete in a conference where schools are spending a bit more on athletics?

I personally think it's unlikely just because the HBCU's won't want to give up their traditions. But this person told me the Southland Conference wants to get back to eight football teams, and TSU and PVAM are certainly a good geographic fit for the six remaining Southland schools that play football. If TSU and PVAM can still play a Grambling or Southern or Jackson State, then maybe it's something they're seriously considering?

I put the odds of this happening as pretty low, but you do touch on one issue: Texas is a much wealthier state than the other SWAC states, save now for Florida with the new additions. While they don't win anything on the football field in the SWAC, institutionally, TS and PV are thriving. Both are approaching 10,000 students and are clearly growing.

That puts them well ahead of most other SWAC schools - only Jackson State and FAMU are similar.

Most of the other SWAC schools are like Southern and Grambling, hovering between 5,000 and 7,000 in enrollment, and stagnant.

When I came to Southern in 1995, its enrollment was 10,400 and it boasted about being the largest HBCU in the country. These days its enrollment is less than 7,000. Grambling's is around 5,400.

So institutionally, the two Texas HBCUs may see themselves as going in another direction. While some Southland schools have low enrollment, more are in the same ballpark, or better, than TX and PV.

Are the endowment #s publicly available for some of these HBCUs correct? Southern and Grambling both under $10mm, Mississippi Valley under $3mm. Jerry Rice could probably quadruple that and not feel much of a dent to his portfolio.

Yes, sadly, those endowment numbers are correct.

And that's another difference. The two Texas HBCUs have endowments of $130m and $60m respectively. That's very respectable for an FCS school. Heck as I joked the other day, PV's $130m endowment is almost as much as UCF's.

Again, there is a discrepancy with other SWAC schools. Surprisingly, despite their enrollment being much lower, both Alabama AM and Alabama State have healthy endowments similar to the Texas schools. FAMU and Jackson State do as well.

But the Louisiana, Arkansas and other Mississippi schools have basically no endowment at all.

Neither do some of the Southland Louisiana Schools - ranging from 8.5 to 18 million.

(09-26-2021 10:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-26-2021 10:03 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  Does the swac still not participate in the fcs playoffs? That could be a factor.

The SWAC does not play in the FCS playoffs.

But, I find that hard to believe would be a factor for PV and TS. It's not like they've been winning SWAC football titles and then chafing at not being able to go to the playoffs. Texas Southern last won the SWAC title in 2010, and that was stripped two years later because of NCAA violations. They haven't officially won the title since 1968.

For PV, it's been since 1964.

Prairie View won the SWAC in football in 2009.

(09-27-2021 11:18 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(09-26-2021 10:20 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  I'm not going to do the research, but I feel confident in saying that only one P5/BCS team has played a road game at a SWAC gym in the last 25 years.

And the Pac-12 is doing 12 in the next four years.

Honestly, it makes me think that EVERY CONFERENCE should be doing this, and the NCAA should be computer generating OOC schedules so these things happen.

Kinda irritating to me that Arizona and Arizona State used to alternate playing a game in Flagstaff yearly, until Lute Olson whined that no big time program could ever be successful playing away games at a "small school" and now they are traveling half-way across the country to do exactly that.

Welcome to CancelCulture and we pretend to care, but not really optics!

I mean, could it be that these moves have been in the works and partly why others bolted from Southland? Not wanting more public schools from the same state in the conference? And not just SWAC with the SLC, but, maybe there’s something with some within MEAC joining up with TSU in OVC?

Just curious; wanting to know the cause-and-effect with why SLC and OVC are seeing this shedding, and how it’s the WAC and ASun picking up major growth from them.

(09-27-2021 12:37 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 11:18 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(09-26-2021 10:20 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  I'm not going to do the research, but I feel confident in saying that only one P5/BCS team has played a road game at a SWAC gym in the last 25 years.

And the Pac-12 is doing 12 in the next four years.

Honestly, it makes me think that EVERY CONFERENCE should be doing this, and the NCAA should be computer generating OOC schedules so these things happen.

Kinda irritating to me that Arizona and Arizona State used to alternate playing a game in Flagstaff yearly, until Lute Olson whined that no big time program could ever be successful playing away games at a "small school" and now they are traveling half-way across the country to do exactly that.

Welcome to CancelCulture and we pretend to care, but not really optics!

Not really CancelCulture, and what the Pac 12 is doing I think is great (and should be done by all P5's to the smaller conferences). Just want UA and ASU to come back to Flag!

(09-27-2021 01:17 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 12:37 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 11:18 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(09-26-2021 10:20 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  I'm not going to do the research, but I feel confident in saying that only one P5/BCS team has played a road game at a SWAC gym in the last 25 years.

And the Pac-12 is doing 12 in the next four years.

Honestly, it makes me think that EVERY CONFERENCE should be doing this, and the NCAA should be computer generating OOC schedules so these things happen.

Kinda irritating to me that Arizona and Arizona State used to alternate playing a game in Flagstaff yearly, until Lute Olson whined that no big time program could ever be successful playing away games at a "small school" and now they are traveling half-way across the country to do exactly that.

Welcome to CancelCulture and we pretend to care, but not really optics!

Not really CancelCulture, and what the Pac 12 is doing I think is great (and should be done by all P5's to the smaller conferences). Just want UA and ASU to come back to Flag!

Yeah, I agree. Should happen at other schools too. No reason Memphis can’t visit Jackson State or Wichita State visit Maryland Eastern Shore.