(09-22-2021 07:39 AM)AFLAGWA Wrote:  

(09-20-2021 04:50 PM)PittRocket Wrote:  Here in Pittsburgh after WMU beat Pitt, the sport reporters were talking about how WMU's O-line manhandled Pitt's D-Line. How can Toledo not have some capable lineman?? (Although WMU got manhandled by Michigan a couple weeks ago)

As a Bronco fan that was at the Pitt/WMU game, I would add this tidbit...

After any highly emotional contest...Pitt's win over Tennessee and Toledo's battle with ND...it is a challenge to see your next opponent with a value that is solely related to them. I think there was a degree of underestimation on both Pitt and UT's part relative to their opponent. Pitt's "We just handled Tennessee, WMU is just a MAC team...just show up and win" approach cost them. If you don't believe me, just watch the Panther-lair podcast...they were preaching the "just a MAC team" even after getting handled by them. UT had just played ND to the wire and were facing a winless CSU team at their place. This is actually my fear in WMU playing SJSU this weekend. We KNOW that SJSU is a good team...not just "sport speak" but legitimately good. The challenge is are we going to face them with the same intensity that we approached Pitt. I think one weird blessing in disguise is Lester testing positive for COVID. It creates a "rally the troops" moment and supersedes the other issue. The problem is that once you are in the sinking boat, it is hard to keep it afloat and head it in the right direction at the same time (sorry for the PJ Fleckism).

From a talent standpoint, I think that CSU, UT, Pitt, and WMU are pretty similar. Some would argue otherwise, but I think that is more a matter of depth than front line talent.

This drama is why we all watch the game.

This is accurate. I worked with a guy who was a big Ohio state fan. He pointed out that pretty much every middle of the pack or worse big 10 team that played up to Ohio state and gave them a tough game, ultimately got beat the next week in games they were favored. I started to pay attention to that and it was true over 80% of the time. Almost like they shot their wad and the next week have nothing in the tank and can’t get back up to that level.

At the same time, Toledo’s offensive line has stunk for a while, so that’s been consistent throughout.

You cant let a team beat you twice. ND kind of did vs. us after FSU. Florida State did after ND. Miami basically did vs. App State. We did vs CSU. Its a thing... It used to be called the Navy hangover. Get hit a bunch and chop blocked 80 times vs. Navy and the next week was almost always a loss or a bad game.

I heard our guys were sore Wednesday after ND... Wednesday. If your head is in it, that doesnt neccesarily mean your body is. With a subpar team limping in, while the offensive practice is more on fixing yourself rather than opponent breakdown... let alone they saw our best offensive plan in a season vs. ND... Even though we were only minorly succesful... bad recipe for a W.

That game was on Weiner, Candle, Hallet, Cole etc. Our defense is going to shut down lots of MAC teams though which has me only giving up on the team 90% of the way.

Im done running around the home side pumping our fans though. Its not their fault theyre quiet when the offense is stale as can be. The guys need to self motivate. The D does a good job at it. But also like 16,000 fans in general before they knew we would lose? Ticket prices at 25$ are too high. EMU tix are like 10$.

(09-22-2021 12:55 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  You cant let a team beat you twice. ND kind of did vs. us after FSU. Florida State did after ND. Miami basically did vs. App State. We did vs CSU. Its a thing... It used to be called the Navy hangover. Get hit a bunch and chop blocked 80 times vs. Navy and the next week was almost always a loss or a bad game.

I heard our guys were sore Wednesday after ND... Wednesday. If your head is in it, that doesnt neccesarily mean your body is. With a subpar team limping in, while the offensive practice is more on fixing yourself rather than opponent breakdown... let alone they saw our best offensive plan in a season vs. ND... Even though we were only minorly succesful... bad recipe for a W.

That game was on Weiner, Candle, Hallet, Cole etc. Our defense is going to shut down lots of MAC teams though which has me only giving up on the team 90% of the way.

Im done running around the home side pumping our fans though. Its not their fault theyre quiet when the offense is stale as can be. The guys need to self motivate. The D does a good job at it. But also like 16,000 fans in general before they knew we would lose? Ticket prices at 25$ are too high. EMU tix are like 10$.

Good story in the Blade today about OSU having trouble selling tickets. They have expensive tickets too. Of course EMU has trouble giving tickets away.

I did some data mining on the offensive line recruits and how they panned out in the Candle era, compared to the Beckman/Campbell eras. Data I found isn't complete, and I may have made errors, but I found this enlightening.

Beckman/Campbell or Campbell/Manning. 7 Seasons:
Highest Rated Recruits: Bell (.8380), Mancz (.8333), Cameron (.8232). Wirth (.8175), Hendershot (.8111)
All-MAC (16x): Kerin 3x (.7000), Mancz 3x (.8333), Myers 2x (NR), Hendershot (.8111), Norton 2x (.7975), Ebert (converted TE), Weiss (NR/PWO), Nkansah (.7732), Harris 2x (.8028)
All-American (1x): Mancz
NFL Looks: Kerin, Mancz, Perschon (tryout), Norton, Weiss, Nkansah, Carter

Of the top recruits, Mancz was a star, and Hendershot a top lineman and Bell had a decent career. Cameron's career was cut short by freak injury, and I don't know what happened to Wirth. But, look what they did with the less highly regarded recruits. Wow.

Candle/Hallett, now in their 6th Seasons:
Highest Rated Recruits: Dumont (.8555), Haslem (.8511), Baker (.8464), Bergen (.8410), Stoefen (.8376)
All-MAC (1x): Rosi (NR/WO)
All-American: Rosi (freshman)
NFL Looks so far: Ruble (tryout)

Haslem never played, and Baker was a no-show as I recall. Dumont, Bergen and Stoefen still have time to develop yet. But, to have only 1 all-MAC appearance so far? Quite a step down from the previous years.

Now, there has been rating inflation on 247, so can't directly compare ratings in 2021 to those in, say, 2010. And, of course some of Candle's recruits could earn more honors down the road, or even make the pros. Is it recruiting or development? Given that Campbell/Manning took unrated/low rated players, walk-ons and even converted TEs and made them into solid lines most years, to me thinks maybe it is development that is lacking now, more than recruiting. But I don't know. Clearly, something is different.

(09-22-2021 01:09 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(09-22-2021 12:55 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  You cant let a team beat you twice. ND kind of did vs. us after FSU. Florida State did after ND. Miami basically did vs. App State. We did vs CSU. Its a thing... It used to be called the Navy hangover. Get hit a bunch and chop blocked 80 times vs. Navy and the next week was almost always a loss or a bad game.

I heard our guys were sore Wednesday after ND... Wednesday. If your head is in it, that doesnt neccesarily mean your body is. With a subpar team limping in, while the offensive practice is more on fixing yourself rather than opponent breakdown... let alone they saw our best offensive plan in a season vs. ND... Even though we were only minorly succesful... bad recipe for a W.

That game was on Weiner, Candle, Hallet, Cole etc. Our defense is going to shut down lots of MAC teams though which has me only giving up on the team 90% of the way.

Im done running around the home side pumping our fans though. Its not their fault theyre quiet when the offense is stale as can be. The guys need to self motivate. The D does a good job at it. But also like 16,000 fans in general before they knew we would lose? Ticket prices at 25$ are too high. EMU tix are like 10$.

Good story in the Blade today about OSU having trouble selling tickets. They have expensive tickets too. Of course EMU has trouble giving tickets away.

This past year was about the worst thing ever for athletics departments that relied on people who had no business spending the kind of money they did on tickets. Ohio State has essentially priced themselves out of the middle market, and every one sitting at home, watching the games from a better view with cheaper food and beer around, and not having to lose a full day driving to and from the place for a year realized that maybe there is a better way. Stadium experiences are awesome, but when you're in the bleeders for $125/ticket or you're sitting on a comfy couch eating and drinking whatever you want for nothing...you start to think about it a bit more than you ever did.

(09-23-2021 11:08 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-22-2021 01:09 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(09-22-2021 12:55 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  You cant let a team beat you twice. ND kind of did vs. us after FSU. Florida State did after ND. Miami basically did vs. App State. We did vs CSU. Its a thing... It used to be called the Navy hangover. Get hit a bunch and chop blocked 80 times vs. Navy and the next week was almost always a loss or a bad game.

I heard our guys were sore Wednesday after ND... Wednesday. If your head is in it, that doesnt neccesarily mean your body is. With a subpar team limping in, while the offensive practice is more on fixing yourself rather than opponent breakdown... let alone they saw our best offensive plan in a season vs. ND... Even though we were only minorly succesful... bad recipe for a W.

That game was on Weiner, Candle, Hallet, Cole etc. Our defense is going to shut down lots of MAC teams though which has me only giving up on the team 90% of the way.

Im done running around the home side pumping our fans though. Its not their fault theyre quiet when the offense is stale as can be. The guys need to self motivate. The D does a good job at it. But also like 16,000 fans in general before they knew we would lose? Ticket prices at 25$ are too high. EMU tix are like 10$.

Good story in the Blade today about OSU having trouble selling tickets. They have expensive tickets too. Of course EMU has trouble giving tickets away.

This past year was about the worst thing ever for athletics departments that relied on people who had no business spending the kind of money they did on tickets. Ohio State has essentially priced themselves out of the middle market, and every one sitting at home, watching the games from a better view with cheaper food and beer around, and not having to lose a full day driving to and from the place for a year realized that maybe there is a better way. Stadium experiences are awesome, but when you're in the bleeders for $125/ticket or you're sitting on a comfy couch eating and drinking whatever you want for nothing...you start to think about it a bit more than you ever did.

Some of the NFL Single game upper levels go $40- $500.
Club level seats a couple hundred to a few thousand .
Suite seats a few thousand to $5-6 grand.

(09-22-2021 08:18 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  I did some data mining on the offensive line recruits and how they panned out in the Candle era, compared to the Beckman/Campbell eras. Data I found isn't complete, and I may have made errors, but I found this enlightening.

Beckman/Campbell or Campbell/Manning. 7 Seasons:
Highest Rated Recruits: Bell (.8380), Mancz (.8333), Cameron (.8232). Wirth (.8175), Hendershot (.8111)
All-MAC (16x): Kerin 3x (.7000), Mancz 3x (.8333), Myers 2x (NR), Hendershot (.8111), Norton 2x (.7975), Ebert (converted TE), Weiss (NR/PWO), Nkansah (.7732), Harris 2x (.8028)
All-American (1x): Mancz
NFL Looks: Kerin, Mancz, Perschon (tryout), Norton, Weiss, Nkansah, Carter

Of the top recruits, Mancz was a star, and Hendershot a top lineman and Bell had a decent career. Cameron's career was cut short by freak injury, and I don't know what happened to Wirth. But, look what they did with the less highly regarded recruits. Wow.

Candle/Hallett, now in their 6th Seasons:
Highest Rated Recruits: Dumont (.8555), Haslem (.8511), Baker (.8464), Bergen (.8410), Stoefen (.8376)
All-MAC (1x): Rosi (NR/WO)
All-American: Rosi (freshman)
NFL Looks so far: Ruble (tryout)

Haslem never played, and Baker was a no-show as I recall. Dumont, Bergen and Stoefen still have time to develop yet. But, to have only 1 all-MAC appearance so far? Quite a step down from the previous years.

Now, there has been rating inflation on 247, so can't directly compare ratings in 2021 to those in, say, 2010. And, of course some of Candle's recruits could earn more honors down the road, or even make the pros. Is it recruiting or development? Given that Campbell/Manning took unrated/low rated players, walk-ons and even converted TEs and made them into solid lines most years, to me thinks maybe it is development that is lacking now, more than recruiting. But I don't know. Clearly, something is different.

This should be sent to Jason and used for Hallet's year end review!

(09-23-2021 03:49 PM)Party on the hill Wrote:  

(09-22-2021 08:18 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  I did some data mining on the offensive line recruits and how they panned out in the Candle era, compared to the Beckman/Campbell eras. Data I found isn't complete, and I may have made errors, but I found this enlightening.

Beckman/Campbell or Campbell/Manning. 7 Seasons:
Highest Rated Recruits: Bell (.8380), Mancz (.8333), Cameron (.8232). Wirth (.8175), Hendershot (.8111)
All-MAC (16x): Kerin 3x (.7000), Mancz 3x (.8333), Myers 2x (NR), Hendershot (.8111), Norton 2x (.7975), Ebert (converted TE), Weiss (NR/PWO), Nkansah (.7732), Harris 2x (.8028)
All-American (1x): Mancz
NFL Looks: Kerin, Mancz, Perschon (tryout), Norton, Weiss, Nkansah, Carter

Of the top recruits, Mancz was a star, and Hendershot a top lineman and Bell had a decent career. Cameron's career was cut short by freak injury, and I don't know what happened to Wirth. But, look what they did with the less highly regarded recruits. Wow.

Candle/Hallett, now in their 6th Seasons:
Highest Rated Recruits: Dumont (.8555), Haslem (.8511), Baker (.8464), Bergen (.8410), Stoefen (.8376)
All-MAC (1x): Rosi (NR/WO)
All-American: Rosi (freshman)
NFL Looks so far: Ruble (tryout)

Haslem never played, and Baker was a no-show as I recall. Dumont, Bergen and Stoefen still have time to develop yet. But, to have only 1 all-MAC appearance so far? Quite a step down from the previous years.

Now, there has been rating inflation on 247, so can't directly compare ratings in 2021 to those in, say, 2010. And, of course some of Candle's recruits could earn more honors down the road, or even make the pros. Is it recruiting or development? Given that Campbell/Manning took unrated/low rated players, walk-ons and even converted TEs and made them into solid lines most years, to me thinks maybe it is development that is lacking now, more than recruiting. But I don't know. Clearly, something is different.

This should be sent to Jason and used for Hallet's year end review!

Have our RB recruits been a bust?