(09-07-2021 02:29 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I never said anything remotely close to that choad. Many black Americans ARE beginning to see what's going on, I just don't understand why more don't. It's not a question of self awareness, it's a question of brain washing.

Do you think Blacks are more susceptible to brain washing than others?

Of course not nor did I imply that. Next troll question?

(09-07-2021 06:36 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 04:16 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 03:13 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(09-05-2021 04:22 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(09-05-2021 02:36 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall, you can easily make 50 grand a year around this joint. If you're good, honest, present professionally and really hustle 100 grand is well within reach. Not bad at all.

Problem is, all those above are in increasingly short supply.

No you cant.

That is unless you are working for yourself because very few people are making $25 an hour as a labor, even a skilled one. Especially not when a very large percentage of those laborers are from Mexico or other 3rd world countries.

Union jobs maybe so but then you will find most of those are jobs held by Americans. Generational Americans that grew up in the trades

Its why you will see so many millionaire contractors. They are making a killing off cheap labor. Not only people willing to work cheaper but also longer hours without overtime.


Would you be willing to work for way less than you should be getting paid? Would you be willing to work 70+ hours each week for no overtime? Well unless things have changed that much over the last 6 or 7 years. That is exactly what those people who had generations of family that made their living in the trades are facing.

Government and Union work is only a very small part of the trades and they are the only one's making that type of money.

But I do understand your point. I just disagree with the outcome, but its still better than living off the government. Well unless you are a contractor...doing jus

I actually see both sides of this argument. People from all over the country are moving here. There is lack of plumbers, ac heating guys and electricians. All of these require license to work and all are good paying blue collar jobs that can’t be imported. As far as home repairs I never use anyone that doesn’t have references and I can’t stand home contractors

I, too go on references and I know a LOT of other folks that do as well.

To WK, that's exactly who I'm talking about- the indy painter making 2 grand to do some light wood repair/replacement, exterior painting and replacing fake shutters. Showed up at 6 AM, worked until 6 pm, took him about 2-1/2 days, did a great job and took my check. I'm happy and presumably he's happy. Off to the next 2 grand job he's got lined up.

Same for the tree service guys. The mulch and landscape people etc. They do a good job and I'll tell others about them. Same as if they're crooked, drunk or just incompetent too. Seen it all.

You don't need to tell me "No you can't". I know for a fact what these guys (and gals) can command for their trade and most are booked full weeks if not months out.

The young guy that does my annual aeration and overseeding. He does some other stuff like bringing in topsoil and spreading it etc.

He's a trained, card carrying commercial electrician. He does better doing landscaping. Wife, two kids under 5.

EDIT: OK after this post I saw were you clarified you were talking skilled workers mainly doing their own work. And I have no problem with that statement

What you actually said was "If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall, you can easily make 50 grand a year around this joint."

I'm still not convinced anyone that can do any of those is getting their boss to pay them $25 an hour. Those people are called LABORERS an no one is paying that type of money an hour for someone that can " If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall".

The example you gave is of someone working for themselves. Everyone that can " If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall" is not going to be able to do that. Its a lot more to painting than just rolling out a wall. Its a lot more to carpenter work than being able to cut a board. There's a lot more to fixing a faucet than tightening down a screw.

The below chart is for SKILLED trade workers and only 30% make 50k and 56% makes less than $18 an hour. Once again this is skilled workers which is totally different than someone with the basic skill to roll out a wall or hammer a nail or cut a piece of wood. Maybe that is what you meant "skilled" but its not what you said.



https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Sk...n-Virginia

How much does a Skilled Trades make in Virginia?
As of Aug 31, 2021, the average annual pay for the Skilled Trades jobs category in Virginia is $37,670 an year. Just in case you need a simple salary calculator, that works out to be approximately $18.11 an hour. This is the equivalent of $724/week or $3,139/month.

While ZipRecruiter is seeing salaries as high as $60,191 and as low as $22,511, the majority of salaries within the Skilled Trades jobs category currently range between $31,319 (25th percentile) to $48,936 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $57,255 annually in Virginia.

The average pay range for a Skilled Trades job varies greatly (as much as $17,617), which suggests there may be many opportunities for advancement and increased pay based on skill level, location and years of experience.

Based on recent job posting activity on ZipRecruiter, the Skilled Trades job market in Virginia is not very active as few companies are currently hiring.

Virginia ranks number 11 out of 50 states nationwide for Skilled Trades job salaries.

If your premise IS the middle class is disappearing then you are correct. Sovereign nations are next for a one world government

(09-08-2021 12:32 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Of course not nor did I imply that. Next troll question?

What do you mean by "what's going on" and why are only a few blacks seeing it?

What do you mean by what do you mean by "what's going on" and why are only a few blacks seeing it?

(09-08-2021 02:50 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 06:36 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 04:16 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 03:13 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(09-05-2021 04:22 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  No you cant.

That is unless you are working for yourself because very few people are making $25 an hour as a labor, even a skilled one. Especially not when a very large percentage of those laborers are from Mexico or other 3rd world countries.

Union jobs maybe so but then you will find most of those are jobs held by Americans. Generational Americans that grew up in the trades

Its why you will see so many millionaire contractors. They are making a killing off cheap labor. Not only people willing to work cheaper but also longer hours without overtime.


Would you be willing to work for way less than you should be getting paid? Would you be willing to work 70+ hours each week for no overtime? Well unless things have changed that much over the last 6 or 7 years. That is exactly what those people who had generations of family that made their living in the trades are facing.

Government and Union work is only a very small part of the trades and they are the only one's making that type of money.

But I do understand your point. I just disagree with the outcome, but its still better than living off the government. Well unless you are a contractor...doing jus

I actually see both sides of this argument. People from all over the country are moving here. There is lack of plumbers, ac heating guys and electricians. All of these require license to work and all are good paying blue collar jobs that can’t be imported. As far as home repairs I never use anyone that doesn’t have references and I can’t stand home contractors

I, too go on references and I know a LOT of other folks that do as well.

To WK, that's exactly who I'm talking about- the indy painter making 2 grand to do some light wood repair/replacement, exterior painting and replacing fake shutters. Showed up at 6 AM, worked until 6 pm, took him about 2-1/2 days, did a great job and took my check. I'm happy and presumably he's happy. Off to the next 2 grand job he's got lined up.

Same for the tree service guys. The mulch and landscape people etc. They do a good job and I'll tell others about them. Same as if they're crooked, drunk or just incompetent too. Seen it all.

You don't need to tell me "No you can't". I know for a fact what these guys (and gals) can command for their trade and most are booked full weeks if not months out.

The young guy that does my annual aeration and overseeding. He does some other stuff like bringing in topsoil and spreading it etc.

He's a trained, card carrying commercial electrician. He does better doing landscaping. Wife, two kids under 5.

EDIT: OK after this post I saw were you clarified you were talking skilled workers mainly doing their own work. And I have no problem with that statement

What you actually said was "If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall, you can easily make 50 grand a year around this joint."

I'm still not convinced anyone that can do any of those is getting their boss to pay them $25 an hour. Those people are called LABORERS an no one is paying that type of money an hour for someone that can " If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall".

The example you gave is of someone working for themselves. Everyone that can " If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall" is not going to be able to do that. Its a lot more to painting than just rolling out a wall. Its a lot more to carpenter work than being able to cut a board. There's a lot more to fixing a faucet than tightening down a screw.

The below chart is for SKILLED trade workers and only 30% make 50k and 56% makes less than $18 an hour. Once again this is skilled workers which is totally different than someone with the basic skill to roll out a wall or hammer a nail or cut a piece of wood. Maybe that is what you meant "skilled" but its not what you said.



https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Sk...n-Virginia

How much does a Skilled Trades make in Virginia?
As of Aug 31, 2021, the average annual pay for the Skilled Trades jobs category in Virginia is $37,670 an year. Just in case you need a simple salary calculator, that works out to be approximately $18.11 an hour. This is the equivalent of $724/week or $3,139/month.

While ZipRecruiter is seeing salaries as high as $60,191 and as low as $22,511, the majority of salaries within the Skilled Trades jobs category currently range between $31,319 (25th percentile) to $48,936 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $57,255 annually in Virginia.

The average pay range for a Skilled Trades job varies greatly (as much as $17,617), which suggests there may be many opportunities for advancement and increased pay based on skill level, location and years of experience.

Based on recent job posting activity on ZipRecruiter, the Skilled Trades job market in Virginia is not very active as few companies are currently hiring.

Virginia ranks number 11 out of 50 states nationwide for Skilled Trades job salaries.

If your premise IS the middle class is disappearing then you are correct. Sovereign nations are next for a one world government

The middle class is not disappearing.

In 1980, "skilled trades" was an occupation that put you at the high end of the middle class in 1980. Darn near upper middle class.

Today, "skilled trades" puts you in the lower middle class.

In 1980, 17% of American adults had college degrees. So a skilled tradesman would be at the 60th-80th percentile of income.

Today, 37% of adults have college degrees. So a skilled tradesman would be at the 40th-60th percentile of income.


A skilled tradesman can make more than someone with a worthless college degree. But college degrees are increasingly in higher paying technical fields like computers, biology, and health professions (all of which have boomed). The only popular categories of majors that have declined since 1990 are education and english/literature (both of which make less than a good skilled tradesman).

(09-09-2021 02:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-08-2021 02:50 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 06:36 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 04:16 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 03:13 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  I actually see both sides of this argument. People from all over the country are moving here. There is lack of plumbers, ac heating guys and electricians. All of these require license to work and all are good paying blue collar jobs that can’t be imported. As far as home repairs I never use anyone that doesn’t have references and I can’t stand home contractors

I, too go on references and I know a LOT of other folks that do as well.

To WK, that's exactly who I'm talking about- the indy painter making 2 grand to do some light wood repair/replacement, exterior painting and replacing fake shutters. Showed up at 6 AM, worked until 6 pm, took him about 2-1/2 days, did a great job and took my check. I'm happy and presumably he's happy. Off to the next 2 grand job he's got lined up.

Same for the tree service guys. The mulch and landscape people etc. They do a good job and I'll tell others about them. Same as if they're crooked, drunk or just incompetent too. Seen it all.

You don't need to tell me "No you can't". I know for a fact what these guys (and gals) can command for their trade and most are booked full weeks if not months out.

The young guy that does my annual aeration and overseeding. He does some other stuff like bringing in topsoil and spreading it etc.

He's a trained, card carrying commercial electrician. He does better doing landscaping. Wife, two kids under 5.

EDIT: OK after this post I saw were you clarified you were talking skilled workers mainly doing their own work. And I have no problem with that statement

What you actually said was "If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall, you can easily make 50 grand a year around this joint."

I'm still not convinced anyone that can do any of those is getting their boss to pay them $25 an hour. Those people are called LABORERS an no one is paying that type of money an hour for someone that can " If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall".

The example you gave is of someone working for themselves. Everyone that can " If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall" is not going to be able to do that. Its a lot more to painting than just rolling out a wall. Its a lot more to carpenter work than being able to cut a board. There's a lot more to fixing a faucet than tightening down a screw.

The below chart is for SKILLED trade workers and only 30% make 50k and 56% makes less than $18 an hour. Once again this is skilled workers which is totally different than someone with the basic skill to roll out a wall or hammer a nail or cut a piece of wood. Maybe that is what you meant "skilled" but its not what you said.



https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Sk...n-Virginia

How much does a Skilled Trades make in Virginia?
As of Aug 31, 2021, the average annual pay for the Skilled Trades jobs category in Virginia is $37,670 an year. Just in case you need a simple salary calculator, that works out to be approximately $18.11 an hour. This is the equivalent of $724/week or $3,139/month.

While ZipRecruiter is seeing salaries as high as $60,191 and as low as $22,511, the majority of salaries within the Skilled Trades jobs category currently range between $31,319 (25th percentile) to $48,936 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $57,255 annually in Virginia.

The average pay range for a Skilled Trades job varies greatly (as much as $17,617), which suggests there may be many opportunities for advancement and increased pay based on skill level, location and years of experience.

Based on recent job posting activity on ZipRecruiter, the Skilled Trades job market in Virginia is not very active as few companies are currently hiring.

Virginia ranks number 11 out of 50 states nationwide for Skilled Trades job salaries.

If your premise IS the middle class is disappearing then you are correct. Sovereign nations are next for a one world government

The middle class is not disappearing.

In 1980, "skilled trades" was an occupation that put you at the high end of the middle class in 1980. Darn near upper middle class.

Today, "skilled trades" puts you in the lower middle class.

In 1980, 17% of American adults had college degrees. So a skilled tradesman would be at the 60th-80th percentile of income.

Today, 37% of adults have college degrees. So a skilled tradesman would be at the 40th-60th percentile of income.


A skilled tradesman can make more than someone with a worthless college degree. But college degrees are increasingly in higher paying technical fields like computers, biology, and health professions (all of which have boomed). The only popular categories of majors that have declined since 1990 are education and english/literature (both of which make less than a good skilled tradesman).

That is unless your a teacher in Barbers Hill ISD.

The average SAT score at Barbers Hill ISD was 1168 for 2018-2019 graduates. The average ACT score was 20.5. As of the 2019-2020 school year, an average teacher's salary was $72,572, which is $15,481 more than the state average. On average, teachers had 14.3 years of experience.

This is a public independent school district in the state of Texas

(09-09-2021 03:13 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(09-09-2021 02:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-08-2021 02:50 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 06:36 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 04:16 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  I, too go on references and I know a LOT of other folks that do as well.

To WK, that's exactly who I'm talking about- the indy painter making 2 grand to do some light wood repair/replacement, exterior painting and replacing fake shutters. Showed up at 6 AM, worked until 6 pm, took him about 2-1/2 days, did a great job and took my check. I'm happy and presumably he's happy. Off to the next 2 grand job he's got lined up.

Same for the tree service guys. The mulch and landscape people etc. They do a good job and I'll tell others about them. Same as if they're crooked, drunk or just incompetent too. Seen it all.

You don't need to tell me "No you can't". I know for a fact what these guys (and gals) can command for their trade and most are booked full weeks if not months out.

The young guy that does my annual aeration and overseeding. He does some other stuff like bringing in topsoil and spreading it etc.

He's a trained, card carrying commercial electrician. He does better doing landscaping. Wife, two kids under 5.

EDIT: OK after this post I saw were you clarified you were talking skilled workers mainly doing their own work. And I have no problem with that statement

What you actually said was "If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall, you can easily make 50 grand a year around this joint."

I'm still not convinced anyone that can do any of those is getting their boss to pay them $25 an hour. Those people are called LABORERS an no one is paying that type of money an hour for someone that can " If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall".

The example you gave is of someone working for themselves. Everyone that can " If you can bang a nail, cut a board, fix a leaky faucet or paint a wall" is not going to be able to do that. Its a lot more to painting than just rolling out a wall. Its a lot more to carpenter work than being able to cut a board. There's a lot more to fixing a faucet than tightening down a screw.

The below chart is for SKILLED trade workers and only 30% make 50k and 56% makes less than $18 an hour. Once again this is skilled workers which is totally different than someone with the basic skill to roll out a wall or hammer a nail or cut a piece of wood. Maybe that is what you meant "skilled" but its not what you said.



https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Sk...n-Virginia

How much does a Skilled Trades make in Virginia?
As of Aug 31, 2021, the average annual pay for the Skilled Trades jobs category in Virginia is $37,670 an year. Just in case you need a simple salary calculator, that works out to be approximately $18.11 an hour. This is the equivalent of $724/week or $3,139/month.

While ZipRecruiter is seeing salaries as high as $60,191 and as low as $22,511, the majority of salaries within the Skilled Trades jobs category currently range between $31,319 (25th percentile) to $48,936 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $57,255 annually in Virginia.

The average pay range for a Skilled Trades job varies greatly (as much as $17,617), which suggests there may be many opportunities for advancement and increased pay based on skill level, location and years of experience.

Based on recent job posting activity on ZipRecruiter, the Skilled Trades job market in Virginia is not very active as few companies are currently hiring.

Virginia ranks number 11 out of 50 states nationwide for Skilled Trades job salaries.

If your premise IS the middle class is disappearing then you are correct. Sovereign nations are next for a one world government

The middle class is not disappearing.

In 1980, "skilled trades" was an occupation that put you at the high end of the middle class in 1980. Darn near upper middle class.

Today, "skilled trades" puts you in the lower middle class.

In 1980, 17% of American adults had college degrees. So a skilled tradesman would be at the 60th-80th percentile of income.

Today, 37% of adults have college degrees. So a skilled tradesman would be at the 40th-60th percentile of income.


A skilled tradesman can make more than someone with a worthless college degree. But college degrees are increasingly in higher paying technical fields like computers, biology, and health professions (all of which have boomed). The only popular categories of majors that have declined since 1990 are education and english/literature (both of which make less than a good skilled tradesman).

That is unless your a teacher in Barbers Hill ISD.

The average SAT score at Barbers Hill ISD was 1168 for 2018-2019 graduates. The average ACT score was 20.5. As of the 2019-2020 school year, an average teacher's salary was $72,572, which is $15,481 more than the state average. On average, teachers had 14.3 years of experience.

This is a public independent school district in the state of Texas

For what it’s worth, a 20.5 is right at the 50th percentile of test takers. So, the average kid is average. A 17 is considered minimally college competent.

Y'all do understand the new paradigm involves paying people 17 bucks an hour as shift leaders at McDonald's, right?

(09-10-2021 02:47 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Y'all do understand the new paradigm involves paying people 17 bucks an hour as shift leaders at McDonald's, right?

Yes, it means your money is worthless and the scale of economy will adjust so that the $17 is equivalent to minimum wage today. Those on fixed incomes will bare the brunt of excessive printing of money.

Good grief.

Nowhere did I say ALL of them do or are making 50 grand or more, I said they can.

Many folks are more risk averse so more comfortable working for someone else. Some do it for the benefits, no doubt, paycheck "security", could be a hundred reasons.

Those that go off on their own typically aren't working for an hourly wage, they are doing it per job. The one guy I had come out was a plumber, master plumber he claimed (no reason to doubt that), he stated right up front "My rate is $90 an hour. Well, 90 and hour is not 17 bucks an hour, it's more than that last I checked. I needed the work done that day, so guess what? I paid up. Sometimes ya gotta bite the bullet and I'm not alone. He happened to fit me in that day, but was already booked for weeks out. If he works a 40 hr week, he's making north of a Buck 80 annually. Not bad.

(09-09-2021 12:44 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  What do you mean by what do you mean by "what's going on" and why are only a few blacks seeing it?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Anyone care to answer?