(08-25-2021 12:46 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 09:47 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Of course the grand irony is that the nazis were actually left of left wingers all the way, but nevermind facts and history :)

I mean, this is scary levels of false. Like “you’re a nut job if someone successfully convinced you of this absolute garbage lie” false.

Like I’d copy paste links, but literally every respectable source on the planet demystifies the fact that the appearance of the word “Socialist” in National Socialist German Workers' Party held no meaningful ties to actual socialism. It was al. ways. far right wing in every facet.

Please try to not say outlandishly stupid, easily debunked things.

Please, please please do not say you ARE a history major. https://www.facinghistory.org/weimar-rep...al-parties and you can read their platform. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pla...squo-party

Very different political systems. For Germany, “right” means right of communist and socialist, but there were socialist ideals in the Nazi party (against democracy or republican governments and anti-capitalist. They were for authoritarian centralized government, enforced cultural homogeneity , state sanctioned violence. Abolition of investment income; nationalization of all industry; creation of large pension system; nationalize and redistribute profits; outlaw press that does not spread truth—control over press; new legal system; new education system (their version of CRT). So really a radical Progressive political party seeking complete and radical change. Not “right wing” at all. If progressives and liberals are left of US conservatives, then German National Socialist are definitely Left Wing in the US seating chart of political ideas.

(08-25-2021 04:54 PM)Dukes1992! Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 12:46 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 09:47 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Of course the grand irony is that the nazis were actually left of left wingers all the way, but nevermind facts and history :)

I mean, this is scary levels of false. Like “you’re a nut job if someone successfully convinced you of this absolute garbage lie” false.

Like I’d copy paste links, but literally every respectable source on the planet demystifies the fact that the appearance of the word “Socialist” in National Socialist German Workers' Party held no meaningful ties to actual socialism. It was al. ways. far right wing in every facet.

Please try to not say outlandishly stupid, easily debunked things.

Please, please please do not say you ARE a history major. https://www.facinghistory.org/weimar-rep...al-parties and you can read their platform. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pla...squo-party

Very different political systems. For Germany, “right” means right of communist and socialist, but there were socialist ideals in the Nazi party (against democracy or republican governments and anti-capitalist. They were for authoritarian centralized government, enforced cultural homogeneity , state sanctioned violence. Abolition of investment income; nationalization of all industry; creation of large pension system; nationalize and redistribute profits; outlaw press that does not spread truth—control over press; new legal system; new education system (their version of CRT). So really a radical Progressive political party seeking complete and radical change. Not “right wing” at all. If progressives and liberals are left of US conservatives, then German National Socialist are definitely Left Wing in the US seating chart of political ideas.

1000% spot on for those of us that like history.

This is the very reason history should be taught and NOT erased........so folks actually have the background and know what the hell they are talking about.

Good thing there are history books, therefor history will never be erased.

(08-26-2021 10:27 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Good thing there are history books, therefor history will never be erased.

Sure.......then why teach any subject: English, Math, Science, Foreign Languages, etc......there are books right. So lets just get rid of school altogether, books exist that cover it.

(08-26-2021 11:09 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:27 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Good thing there are history books, therefor history will never be erased.

Sure.......then why teach any subject: English, Math, Science, Foreign Languages, etc......there are books right. So lets just get rid of school altogether, books exist that cover it.

Well we need teachers there to make us OPEN the books from time to time.

genuine question: what is your point with this reply? I was serious in my reply. I guess you feel that history is being "erased"?

(08-26-2021 01:27 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:09 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:27 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Good thing there are history books, therefor history will never be erased.

Sure.......then why teach any subject: English, Math, Science, Foreign Languages, etc......there are books right. So lets just get rid of school altogether, books exist that cover it.

Well we need teachers there to make us OPEN the books from time to time.

genuine question: what is your point with this reply? I was serious in my reply. I guess you feel that history is being "erased"?

Well I was merely using hyperbole to point out how outlandish your statement really was, but I see you chose to cherry-pick what the response was in reference too so I will refresh your memory below:

So I was pointing out why it was so important to actually teach history b/c some folks get it very twisted when left to their own devices.

BELOW..............

Please, please please do not say you ARE a history major. https://www.facinghistory.org/weimar-rep...al-parties and you can read their platform. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pla...squo-party

Very different political systems. For Germany, “right” means right of communist and socialist, but there were socialist ideals in the Nazi party (against democracy or republican governments and anti-capitalist. They were for authoritarian centralized government, enforced cultural homogeneity , state sanctioned violence. Abolition of investment income; nationalization of all industry; creation of large pension system; nationalize and redistribute profits; outlaw press that does not spread truth—control over press; new legal system; new education system (their version of CRT). So really a radical Progressive political party seeking complete and radical change. Not “right wing” at all. If progressives and liberals are left of US conservatives, then German National Socialist are definitely Left Wing in the US seating chart of political ideas.

ah ok thanks. I guess I don't understand why what I said was outlandish. The Nazi party history is well documented in history books. And you are totally right that people twist/forget when left to their own devices. Our sources of information are very important. I would say that it would be better to read about Germany's history in something other than Buzzfeed, for example.

(08-26-2021 02:22 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  ah ok thanks. I guess I don't understand why what I said was outlandish. The Nazi party history is well documented in history books. And you are totally right that people twist/forget when left to their own devices. Our sources of information are very important. I would say that it would be better to read about Germany's history in something other than Buzzfeed, for example.

And Science, Math (all levels), Foreign Languages, English, etc.....are all very well documented in textbooks as well.....so just crack those books open and learn it.....no teachers or schools needed.

Just extrapolating your statement on history to all subjects.

(08-26-2021 02:15 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 01:27 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:09 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:27 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Good thing there are history books, therefor history will never be erased.

Sure.......then why teach any subject: English, Math, Science, Foreign Languages, etc......there are books right. So lets just get rid of school altogether, books exist that cover it.

Well we need teachers there to make us OPEN the books from time to time.

genuine question: what is your point with this reply? I was serious in my reply. I guess you feel that history is being "erased"?

Well I was merely using hyperbole to point out how outlandish your statement really was, but I see you chose to cherry-pick what the response was in reference too so I will refresh your memory below:

So I was pointing out why it was so important to actually teach history b/c some folks get it very twisted when left to their own devices.


Please, please please do not say you ARE a history major. https://www.facinghistory.org/weimar-rep...al-parties and you can read their platform. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pla...squo-party

Very different political systems. For Germany, “right” means right of communist and socialist, but there were socialist ideals in the Nazi party (against democracy or republican governments and anti-capitalist. They were for authoritarian centralized government, enforced cultural homogeneity , state sanctioned violence. Abolition of investment income; nationalization of all industry; creation of large pension system; nationalize and redistribute profits; outlaw press that does not spread truth—control over press; new legal system; new education system (their version of CRT). So really a radical Progressive political party seeking complete and radical change. Not “right wing” at all. If progressives and liberals are left of US conservatives, then German National Socialist are definitely Left Wing in the US seating chart of political ideas.

Interesting. If you clicked the links, you have one such history book and a primary source document. The notes typed may as well have been in quotes and directly cited. What I may not have done well is convey the difference between the linear political spectrum vs the horseshoe spectrum which would put Stalinist Socialism and Nazism closer together as both are authoritarian one for the worker class and one for the German nationalist. Both being very different from classical liberalism, libertarian conservatism, or social democracy. So when you say “twisted” you mean someone needs to “teach” what something means? Or that if there is other historical perspectives, that one needs to be “corrected” to conform to the one “true” answer that conforms to the popular perspective? Please elaborate.

(08-30-2021 10:14 PM)Dukes1992! Wrote:  So when you say “twisted” you mean someone needs to “teach” what something means? Or that if there is other historical perspectives, that one needs to be “corrected” to conform to the one “true” answer that conforms to the popular perspective? Please elaborate.

(08-30-2021 10:14 PM)Dukes1992! Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 02:15 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 01:27 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:09 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:27 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Good thing there are history books, therefor history will never be erased.

Sure.......then why teach any subject: English, Math, Science, Foreign Languages, etc......there are books right. So lets just get rid of school altogether, books exist that cover it.

Well we need teachers there to make us OPEN the books from time to time.

genuine question: what is your point with this reply? I was serious in my reply. I guess you feel that history is being "erased"?

Well I was merely using hyperbole to point out how outlandish your statement really was, but I see you chose to cherry-pick what the response was in reference too so I will refresh your memory below:

So I was pointing out why it was so important to actually teach history b/c some folks get it very twisted when left to their own devices.


Please, please please do not say you ARE a history major. https://www.facinghistory.org/weimar-rep...al-parties and you can read their platform. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pla...squo-party

Very different political systems. For Germany, “right” means right of communist and socialist, but there were socialist ideals in the Nazi party (against democracy or republican governments and anti-capitalist. They were for authoritarian centralized government, enforced cultural homogeneity , state sanctioned violence. Abolition of investment income; nationalization of all industry; creation of large pension system; nationalize and redistribute profits; outlaw press that does not spread truth—control over press; new legal system; new education system (their version of CRT). So really a radical Progressive political party seeking complete and radical change. Not “right wing” at all. If progressives and liberals are left of US conservatives, then German National Socialist are definitely Left Wing in the US seating chart of political ideas.

Interesting. If you clicked the links, you have one such history book and a primary source document. The notes typed may as well have been in quotes and directly cited. What I may not have done well is convey the difference between the linear political spectrum vs the horseshoe spectrum which would put Stalinist Socialism and Nazism closer together as both are authoritarian one for the worker class and one for the German nationalist. Both being very different from classical liberalism, libertarian conservatism, or social democracy. So when you say “twisted” you mean someone needs to “teach” what something means? Or that if there is other historical perspectives, that one needs to be “corrected” to conform to the one “true” answer that conforms to the popular perspective? Please elaborate.

To teach things in historical context of the era of history not according to 2021 notions. But to properly teach what something means in context and then let folks for their own opinions......not that anything is really ever the 'true' answer in social sciences. There is a a true answer in Math or Chemistry for example whereas Social Sciences are more open to interpretation (not the date a treaty was signed).