That Obstruct the Fossil Fuel Industry

Quote:Fifteen Republican State Treasurers sent a warning that they will pull assets from financial institutions if they give in to Federal pressure to de-carbonize and “refuse to lend to or invest in” the fossil fuel and coal industry.

The letter (pdf), led by West Virginia Treasurer Riley Moore, is directed at Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry. It expresses concerns over reports that Kerry and other members of the Biden administration have been “privately pressuring” U.S. banks to stifle the fossil fuel industry.

Good, always one of the most effective ways to make your point is with the wallet.

They should go one step further and prevent financial blackballing of American citizens on political grounds. Mastercard and Paypal being able to render Americans cash-only on a whim is not the way our system should work.

(05-28-2021 12:26 AM)Mav Wrote:  They should go one step further and prevent financial blackballing of American citizens on political grounds. Mastercard and Paypal being able to render Americans cash-only on a whim is not the way our system should work.

Are you suggesting that private businesses be required to serve anyone regardless of creed?

Doesn't that fly in the face of a baker's right to not have to bake a gay cake?

(05-28-2021 09:27 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 12:26 AM)Mav Wrote:  They should go one step further and prevent financial blackballing of American citizens on political grounds. Mastercard and Paypal being able to render Americans cash-only on a whim is not the way our system should work.

Are you suggesting that private businesses be required to serve anyone regardless of creed?

Doesn't that fly in the face of a baker's right to not have to bake a gay cake?

Nope.

You can just go somewhere else and get your gay cake. Competition and free trade allows that to happen.

What MC and paypal is doing is restricting free trade, and preventing certain businesses access to financial transactions everyone else has. Paypal and mastercard should have no say in which transactions they process, because they are part of a regulated industry. In fact, they dont even need to know the two entities the transaction is being processed for. Its one account to another. Its up to the regulatory system to tell them who they cant process transactions for.

Financial institutions not wanting to invest in oil is different, because that can be said to be a business decision based upon risk. What those financial institutions can not do is to try to prevent another institution from investing in oil, as that would be monopolistic.

So, in the end, financial institutions that dont want to take the risk in oil and gas can sit it out, and watch another financial institution swoop in and take all of that business and make bank. They are free to do that, and I'm free to move my money to a financial institution that isnt operated by a bunch of turdnuggets who dont want to invest in oil and gas.

(05-28-2021 09:46 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 09:27 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 12:26 AM)Mav Wrote:  They should go one step further and prevent financial blackballing of American citizens on political grounds. Mastercard and Paypal being able to render Americans cash-only on a whim is not the way our system should work.

Are you suggesting that private businesses be required to serve anyone regardless of creed?

Doesn't that fly in the face of a baker's right to not have to bake a gay cake?

Nope.

You can just go somewhere else and get your gay cake. Competition and free trade allows that to happen.

What MC and paypal is doing is restricting free trade, and preventing certain businesses access to financial transactions everyone else has. Paypal and mastercard should have no say in which transactions they process, because they are part of a regulated industry. In fact, they dont even need to know the two entities the transaction is being processed for. Its one account to another. Its up to the regulatory system to tell them who they cant process transactions for.

Financial institutions not wanting to invest in oil is different, because that can be said to be a business decision based upon risk. What those financial institutions can not do is to try to prevent another institution from investing in oil, as that would be monopolistic.

So, in the end, financial institutions that dont want to take the risk in oil and gas can sit it out, and watch another financial institution swoop in and take all of that business and make bank. They are free to do that, and I'm free to move my money to a financial institution that isnt operated by a bunch of turdnuggets who dont want to invest in oil and gas.

Couldn't businesses simply choose not to use paypal or Mastercard and use someone else?

It's a free country.

(05-28-2021 10:25 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 09:46 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 09:27 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 12:26 AM)Mav Wrote:  They should go one step further and prevent financial blackballing of American citizens on political grounds. Mastercard and Paypal being able to render Americans cash-only on a whim is not the way our system should work.

Are you suggesting that private businesses be required to serve anyone regardless of creed?

Doesn't that fly in the face of a baker's right to not have to bake a gay cake?

Nope.

You can just go somewhere else and get your gay cake. Competition and free trade allows that to happen.

What MC and paypal is doing is restricting free trade, and preventing certain businesses access to financial transactions everyone else has. Paypal and mastercard should have no say in which transactions they process, because they are part of a regulated industry. In fact, they dont even need to know the two entities the transaction is being processed for. Its one account to another. Its up to the regulatory system to tell them who they cant process transactions for.

Financial institutions not wanting to invest in oil is different, because that can be said to be a business decision based upon risk. What those financial institutions can not do is to try to prevent another institution from investing in oil, as that would be monopolistic.

So, in the end, financial institutions that dont want to take the risk in oil and gas can sit it out, and watch another financial institution swoop in and take all of that business and make bank. They are free to do that, and I'm free to move my money to a financial institution that isnt operated by a bunch of turdnuggets who dont want to invest in oil and gas.

Couldn't businesses simply choose not to use paypal or Mastercard and use someone else?

It's a free country.

No. Financial transactions are REGULATED. If you are going to be an intermediary in a regulated sector, then you dont get to pick and choose who you are transacting with, because you're not transacting, you are only the conduit to move the transaction along.

If you dont want to DONATE money to an entity, thats your choice. If you dont want to invest in an industry, thats your choice. If you dont want Grandma to purchase an AK-47 from Guns-R-Us, thats NOT your choice and its NOT your money.

When you process transactions, you are not part of the transaction. You are simply moving money. You dont get to tell OTHERS who they can move money to.

(05-28-2021 10:43 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  No. Financial transactions are REGULATED. If you are going to be an intermediary in a regulated sector, then you dont get to pick and choose who you are transacting with, because you're not transacting, you are only the conduit to move the transaction along.

If you dont want to DONATE money to an entity, thats your choice. If you dont want to invest in an industry, thats your choice. If you dont want Grandma to purchase an AK-47 from Guns-R-Us, thats NOT your choice and its NOT your money.

When you process transactions, you are not part of the transaction. You are simply moving money. You dont get to tell OTHERS who they can move money to.

The left -- certainly not America's best and brightest!

(05-28-2021 10:43 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:25 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 09:46 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 09:27 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 12:26 AM)Mav Wrote:  They should go one step further and prevent financial blackballing of American citizens on political grounds. Mastercard and Paypal being able to render Americans cash-only on a whim is not the way our system should work.

Are you suggesting that private businesses be required to serve anyone regardless of creed?

Doesn't that fly in the face of a baker's right to not have to bake a gay cake?

Nope.

You can just go somewhere else and get your gay cake. Competition and free trade allows that to happen.

What MC and paypal is doing is restricting free trade, and preventing certain businesses access to financial transactions everyone else has. Paypal and mastercard should have no say in which transactions they process, because they are part of a regulated industry. In fact, they dont even need to know the two entities the transaction is being processed for. Its one account to another. Its up to the regulatory system to tell them who they cant process transactions for.

Financial institutions not wanting to invest in oil is different, because that can be said to be a business decision based upon risk. What those financial institutions can not do is to try to prevent another institution from investing in oil, as that would be monopolistic.

So, in the end, financial institutions that dont want to take the risk in oil and gas can sit it out, and watch another financial institution swoop in and take all of that business and make bank. They are free to do that, and I'm free to move my money to a financial institution that isnt operated by a bunch of turdnuggets who dont want to invest in oil and gas.

Couldn't businesses simply choose not to use paypal or Mastercard and use someone else?

It's a free country.

No. Financial transactions are REGULATED. If you are going to be an intermediary in a regulated sector, then you dont get to pick and choose who you are transacting with, because you're not transacting, you are only the conduit to move the transaction along.

If you dont want to DONATE money to an entity, thats your choice. If you dont want to invest in an industry, thats your choice. If you dont want Grandma to purchase an AK-47 from Guns-R-Us, thats NOT your choice and its NOT your money.

When you process transactions, you are not part of the transaction. You are simply moving money. You dont get to tell OTHERS who they can move money to.

I find it hard to believe that businesses are forced to use Paypal or Mastercard.

(05-28-2021 10:46 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:43 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:25 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 09:46 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 09:27 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Are you suggesting that private businesses be required to serve anyone regardless of creed?

Doesn't that fly in the face of a baker's right to not have to bake a gay cake?

Nope.

You can just go somewhere else and get your gay cake. Competition and free trade allows that to happen.

What MC and paypal is doing is restricting free trade, and preventing certain businesses access to financial transactions everyone else has. Paypal and mastercard should have no say in which transactions they process, because they are part of a regulated industry. In fact, they dont even need to know the two entities the transaction is being processed for. Its one account to another. Its up to the regulatory system to tell them who they cant process transactions for.

Financial institutions not wanting to invest in oil is different, because that can be said to be a business decision based upon risk. What those financial institutions can not do is to try to prevent another institution from investing in oil, as that would be monopolistic.

So, in the end, financial institutions that dont want to take the risk in oil and gas can sit it out, and watch another financial institution swoop in and take all of that business and make bank. They are free to do that, and I'm free to move my money to a financial institution that isnt operated by a bunch of turdnuggets who dont want to invest in oil and gas.

Couldn't businesses simply choose not to use paypal or Mastercard and use someone else?

It's a free country.

No. Financial transactions are REGULATED. If you are going to be an intermediary in a regulated sector, then you dont get to pick and choose who you are transacting with, because you're not transacting, you are only the conduit to move the transaction along.

If you dont want to DONATE money to an entity, thats your choice. If you dont want to invest in an industry, thats your choice. If you dont want Grandma to purchase an AK-47 from Guns-R-Us, thats NOT your choice and its NOT your money.

When you process transactions, you are not part of the transaction. You are simply moving money. You dont get to tell OTHERS who they can move money to.

I find it hard to believe that businesses are forced to use Paypal or Mastercard.

If those businesses want to handle transactions in a regulated industry, then they can do so without telling people who they can transact with. Thats not their purview.

(05-28-2021 11:02 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:46 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:43 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:25 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 09:46 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Nope.

You can just go somewhere else and get your gay cake. Competition and free trade allows that to happen.

What MC and paypal is doing is restricting free trade, and preventing certain businesses access to financial transactions everyone else has. Paypal and mastercard should have no say in which transactions they process, because they are part of a regulated industry. In fact, they dont even need to know the two entities the transaction is being processed for. Its one account to another. Its up to the regulatory system to tell them who they cant process transactions for.

Financial institutions not wanting to invest in oil is different, because that can be said to be a business decision based upon risk. What those financial institutions can not do is to try to prevent another institution from investing in oil, as that would be monopolistic.

So, in the end, financial institutions that dont want to take the risk in oil and gas can sit it out, and watch another financial institution swoop in and take all of that business and make bank. They are free to do that, and I'm free to move my money to a financial institution that isnt operated by a bunch of turdnuggets who dont want to invest in oil and gas.

Couldn't businesses simply choose not to use paypal or Mastercard and use someone else?

It's a free country.

No. Financial transactions are REGULATED. If you are going to be an intermediary in a regulated sector, then you dont get to pick and choose who you are transacting with, because you're not transacting, you are only the conduit to move the transaction along.

If you dont want to DONATE money to an entity, thats your choice. If you dont want to invest in an industry, thats your choice. If you dont want Grandma to purchase an AK-47 from Guns-R-Us, thats NOT your choice and its NOT your money.

When you process transactions, you are not part of the transaction. You are simply moving money. You dont get to tell OTHERS who they can move money to.

I find it hard to believe that businesses are forced to use Paypal or Mastercard.

If those businesses want to handle transactions in a regulated industry, then they can do so without telling people who they can transact with. Thats not their purview.

Then let the 15 states do what they plan to do. Maybe that will have a positive outcome.

(05-28-2021 11:07 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 11:02 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:46 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:43 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:25 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Couldn't businesses simply choose not to use paypal or Mastercard and use someone else?

It's a free country.

No. Financial transactions are REGULATED. If you are going to be an intermediary in a regulated sector, then you dont get to pick and choose who you are transacting with, because you're not transacting, you are only the conduit to move the transaction along.

If you dont want to DONATE money to an entity, thats your choice. If you dont want to invest in an industry, thats your choice. If you dont want Grandma to purchase an AK-47 from Guns-R-Us, thats NOT your choice and its NOT your money.

When you process transactions, you are not part of the transaction. You are simply moving money. You dont get to tell OTHERS who they can move money to.

I find it hard to believe that businesses are forced to use Paypal or Mastercard.

If those businesses want to handle transactions in a regulated industry, then they can do so without telling people who they can transact with. Thats not their purview.

Then let the 15 states do what they plan to do. Maybe that will have a positive outcome.

They are, but thats DIFFERENT from your paypal mastercard example.

(05-28-2021 11:36 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 11:07 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 11:02 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:46 AM)Danforth Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 10:43 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  No. Financial transactions are REGULATED. If you are going to be an intermediary in a regulated sector, then you dont get to pick and choose who you are transacting with, because you're not transacting, you are only the conduit to move the transaction along.

If you dont want to DONATE money to an entity, thats your choice. If you dont want to invest in an industry, thats your choice. If you dont want Grandma to purchase an AK-47 from Guns-R-Us, thats NOT your choice and its NOT your money.

When you process transactions, you are not part of the transaction. You are simply moving money. You dont get to tell OTHERS who they can move money to.

I find it hard to believe that businesses are forced to use Paypal or Mastercard.

If those businesses want to handle transactions in a regulated industry, then they can do so without telling people who they can transact with. Thats not their purview.

Then let the 15 states do what they plan to do. Maybe that will have a positive outcome.

They are, but thats DIFFERENT from your paypal mastercard example.

You have convinced me. I agree with you. I think these states should do what they intend to do as long as they are within their right to do so.