(05-24-2021 09:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I bet you they both will agree to join the MEAC as future members. Northern Kentucky said the exact same thing these ADs said at both schools.

In what time frame? 5 years? 10 years? Will we still be here?

(05-24-2021 09:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I bet you they both will agree to join the MEAC as future members. Northern Kentucky said the exact same thing these ADs said at both schools.

How much would you like to bet? I'm willing to bet a dollar to a dime that Kentucky State doesnt get anywhere near the MEAC!

(05-26-2021 02:59 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(05-24-2021 09:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I bet you they both will agree to join the MEAC as future members. Northern Kentucky said the exact same thing these ADs said at both schools.

How much would you like to bet? I'm willing to bet a dollar to a dime that Kentucky State doesnt get anywhere near the MEAC!

Perhaps if/when the MEAC has to drop to D2...

Don’t worry, any time David is challenged he crawls back into his hole and looks up more small schools to fantasy post about. He will never put a date or money behind his “predictions”.

I don't think Kentucky State's administration is being totally honest about how serious they were considering making this jump...

(05-27-2021 05:49 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I don't think Kentucky State's administration is being totally honest about how serious they were considering making this jump...

I think Kentucky St made the prudent decision. They would have become another Winston-Salem St or Savannah St when they realized just how expensive D1 is.

The big question now is can the zombie MEAC get their house in order and sponsor the minimum number of sports to be NCAA compliant?

I really have to wonder if continuing on at the D1 level is the right move for the remaining 8 institutions. Many are already plagued with financial trouble. No one wants to be the school that killed the conference though.

(05-27-2021 05:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 05:49 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I don't think Kentucky State's administration is being totally honest about how serious they were considering making this jump...

I think Kentucky St made the prudent decision. They would have become another Winston-Salem St or Savannah St when they realized just how expensive D1 is.

The big question now is can the zombie MEAC get their house in order and sponsor the minimum number of sports to be NCAA compliant?

I really have to wonder if continuing on at the D1 level is the right move for the remaining 8 institutions. Many are already plagued with financial trouble. No one wants to be the school that killed the conference though.

They are complaint until they lose 1 more football school

(05-27-2021 05:32 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Don’t worry, any time David is challenged he crawls back into his hole and looks up more small schools to fantasy post about. He will never put a date or money behind his “predictions”.

Speaking of him, fantasies, and small school predictions,, I haven't heard much about Community Christian College lately, especially since they haven't gained regional accreditation, joined the NJCAA, and their nationwide string of franchised athletics programs he promoted has not materialized. That one was a real doozy.

By comparison, KY State to the MEAC is fairly mundane.

(05-27-2021 04:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-26-2021 02:59 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(05-24-2021 09:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I bet you they both will agree to join the MEAC as future members. Northern Kentucky said the exact same thing these ADs said at both schools.

How much would you like to bet? I'm willing to bet a dollar to a dime that Kentucky State doesnt get anywhere near the MEAC!

Perhaps if/when the MEAC has to drop to D2...

There isn't going to be a D2 MEAC for Kentucky State to join either because what remains will be absorbed by the CIAA.

(05-27-2021 07:54 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 04:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-26-2021 02:59 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(05-24-2021 09:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I bet you they both will agree to join the MEAC as future members. Northern Kentucky said the exact same thing these ADs said at both schools.

How much would you like to bet? I'm willing to bet a dollar to a dime that Kentucky State doesnt get anywhere near the MEAC!

Perhaps if/when the MEAC has to drop to D2...

There isn't going to be a D2 MEAC for Kentucky State to join either because what remains will be absorbed by the CIAA.

makes sense. Ideally, the MEAC moves down and then they swap a few members with the CIAA to make 2 travel friendly conferences.

They could then collaborate on some OOC scheduling between the two bodies.

(05-27-2021 07:54 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 04:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-26-2021 02:59 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(05-24-2021 09:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I bet you they both will agree to join the MEAC as future members. Northern Kentucky said the exact same thing these ADs said at both schools.

How much would you like to bet? I'm willing to bet a dollar to a dime that Kentucky State doesnt get anywhere near the MEAC!

Perhaps if/when the MEAC has to drop to D2...

There isn't going to be a D2 MEAC for Kentucky State to join either because what remains will be absorbed by the CIAA.

There are a couple ways it could go.

(02-15-2021 12:14 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(02-13-2021 04:43 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Assuming that of the remaining 8 MEAC schools, only Howard (NEC), NCCU (Big South), and NSU (Big South) manage to find other D1 homes, there will be 32 schools (plus 1 FB-only affiliate) among the MEAC schools dropping to D2, the CIAA and SIAC schools, and potential future D2 member Edward Waters. Here's how I might split them into 3 conferences:

CIAA (10 schools in NC and SC + 1 FB affiliate in NC)
FB (9+1): Allen, Chowan (FB only), Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State, Johnson C. Smith, Livingstone, SC State, Shaw, St. Augustine's, Winston-Salem State
NFB (1): Claflin

MEAC (10 schools in DE, KY, MD, OH, PA, and VA)
FB (8): Bowie State, Central State, Delaware State, Kentucky State, Lincoln, Morgan State, Virginia State, Virginia Union
NFB (2): Coppin State, UMES

SIAC (12 schools in AL, FL, GA, SC, and TN)
FB (10): Albany State, Benedict, Clark Atlanta, Edward Waters, Fort Valley State, Lane, Miles, Morehouse, Savannah State, Tuskegee
NFB (2): LeMoyne-Owen, Spring Hill

So the demoted MEAC adds 4 schools from the CIAA (Bowie, Lincoln, VA St., VA Union) in exchange for SC St., and also adds 2 schools from the SIAC (Central St., KY St.). The remaining CIAA schools (now incl. SC St.) add 1 school from the SIAC (newcomer Allen). This leaves 11 schools in the SIAC, who are joined by Edward Waters.

As an alternative to the 3-conference D2 alignment above, here's a more conservative 2-conference D2 alignment for the CIAA and SIAC wherein they take in 5 MEAC schools that drop to D2 plus Edward Waters. In this scenario, no schools are exchanged between the CIAA and SIAC. Current MEAC members are underlined.

CIAA (16 schools in DE, MD, NC, PA, SC, and VA + 1 FB affiliate in NC)
FB (13+1): Bowie State, Chowan (FB only), Delaware State, Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State, Johnson C. Smith, Lincoln, Livingstone, Morgan State, Shaw, St. Augustine's, Virginia State, Virginia Union, Winston-Salem State
NFB (3): Claflin, Coppin State, UMES

SIAC (16 schools in AL, FL, GA, KY, OH, SC, and TN)
FB (14): Albany State, Allen, Benedict, Central State, Clark Atlanta, Edward Waters, Fort Valley State, Kentucky State, Lane, Miles, Morehouse, Savannah State, SC State, Tuskegee
NFB (2): LeMoyne-Owen, Spring Hill

Note that both conferences maintain an even number of FB (14) and MBB (16) members.

(05-27-2021 08:43 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  There are a couple ways it could go.

(02-15-2021 12:14 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(02-13-2021 04:43 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Assuming that of the remaining 8 MEAC schools, only Howard (NEC), NCCU (Big South), and NSU (Big South) manage to find other D1 homes, there will be 32 schools (plus 1 FB-only affiliate) among the MEAC schools dropping to D2, the CIAA and SIAC schools, and potential future D2 member Edward Waters. Here's how I might split them into 3 conferences:

CIAA (10 schools in NC and SC + 1 FB affiliate in NC)
FB (9+1): Allen, Chowan (FB only), Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State, Johnson C. Smith, Livingstone, SC State, Shaw, St. Augustine's, Winston-Salem State
NFB (1): Claflin

MEAC (10 schools in DE, KY, MD, OH, PA, and VA)
FB (8): Bowie State, Central State, Delaware State, Kentucky State, Lincoln, Morgan State, Virginia State, Virginia Union
NFB (2): Coppin State, UMES

SIAC (12 schools in AL, FL, GA, SC, and TN)
FB (10): Albany State, Benedict, Clark Atlanta, Edward Waters, Fort Valley State, Lane, Miles, Morehouse, Savannah State, Tuskegee
NFB (2): LeMoyne-Owen, Spring Hill

So the demoted MEAC adds 4 schools from the CIAA (Bowie, Lincoln, VA St., VA Union) in exchange for SC St., and also adds 2 schools from the SIAC (Central St., KY St.). The remaining CIAA schools (now incl. SC St.) add 1 school from the SIAC (newcomer Allen). This leaves 11 schools in the SIAC, who are joined by Edward Waters.

As an alternative to the 3-conference D2 alignment above, here's a more conservative 2-conference D2 alignment for the CIAA and SIAC wherein they take in 5 MEAC schools that drop to D2 plus Edward Waters. In this scenario, no schools are exchanged between the CIAA and SIAC. Current MEAC members are underlined.

CIAA (16 schools in DE, MD, NC, PA, SC, and VA + 1 FB affiliate in NC)
FB (13+1): Bowie State, Chowan (FB only), Delaware State, Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State, Johnson C. Smith, Lincoln, Livingstone, Morgan State, Shaw, St. Augustine's, Virginia State, Virginia Union, Winston-Salem State
NFB (3): Claflin, Coppin State, UMES

SIAC (16 schools in AL, FL, GA, KY, OH, SC, and TN)
FB (14): Albany State, Allen, Benedict, Central State, Clark Atlanta, Edward Waters, Fort Valley State, Kentucky State, Lane, Miles, Morehouse, Savannah State, SC State, Tuskegee
NFB (2): LeMoyne-Owen, Spring Hill

Note that both conferences maintain an even number of FB (14) and MBB (16) members.

I remember this plan. I don't believe the 3-way split would happen. The CIAA will especially want as many baseball and men's tennis playing schools it can get so that the conference can sponsor those two sports again. There are only three baseball and three men's tennis teams among the CIAA members.

Even if the MEAC almost falls apart, I just don't see that many current D1 schools voluntarily dropping to D2 because of what could turn out to be a short-term lack of a home. They haven't exhausted their options yet. Not by a long shot. I don't see them dropping down so easily, just because they'd fit well in a regional CIAA spin off.

Conferences with a ticket to the NCAA tournament don't die that easily. The openings create interest in schools moving up and filling the voids. Even schools that may not have considered D1 because of the difficulty of finding a conference home.

Look what the WAC pulled off with essentially 2 members, plus a couple who had just joined.

(05-27-2021 08:43 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 07:54 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 04:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-26-2021 02:59 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(05-24-2021 09:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I bet you they both will agree to join the MEAC as future members. Northern Kentucky said the exact same thing these ADs said at both schools.

How much would you like to bet? I'm willing to bet a dollar to a dime that Kentucky State doesnt get anywhere near the MEAC!

Perhaps if/when the MEAC has to drop to D2...

There isn't going to be a D2 MEAC for Kentucky State to join either because what remains will be absorbed by the CIAA.

There are a couple ways it could go.

(02-15-2021 12:14 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(02-13-2021 04:43 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Assuming that of the remaining 8 MEAC schools, only Howard (NEC), NCCU (Big South), and NSU (Big South) manage to find other D1 homes, there will be 32 schools (plus 1 FB-only affiliate) among the MEAC schools dropping to D2, the CIAA and SIAC schools, and potential future D2 member Edward Waters. Here's how I might split them into 3 conferences:

CIAA (10 schools in NC and SC + 1 FB affiliate in NC)
FB (9+1): Allen, Chowan (FB only), Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State, Johnson C. Smith, Livingstone, SC State, Shaw, St. Augustine's, Winston-Salem State
NFB (1): Claflin

MEAC (10 schools in DE, KY, MD, OH, PA, and VA)
FB (8): Bowie State, Central State, Delaware State, Kentucky State, Lincoln, Morgan State, Virginia State, Virginia Union
NFB (2): Coppin State, UMES

SIAC (12 schools in AL, FL, GA, SC, and TN)
FB (10): Albany State, Benedict, Clark Atlanta, Edward Waters, Fort Valley State, Lane, Miles, Morehouse, Savannah State, Tuskegee
NFB (2): LeMoyne-Owen, Spring Hill

So the demoted MEAC adds 4 schools from the CIAA (Bowie, Lincoln, VA St., VA Union) in exchange for SC St., and also adds 2 schools from the SIAC (Central St., KY St.). The remaining CIAA schools (now incl. SC St.) add 1 school from the SIAC (newcomer Allen). This leaves 11 schools in the SIAC, who are joined by Edward Waters.

As an alternative to the 3-conference D2 alignment above, here's a more conservative 2-conference D2 alignment for the CIAA and SIAC wherein they take in 5 MEAC schools that drop to D2 plus Edward Waters. In this scenario, no schools are exchanged between the CIAA and SIAC. Current MEAC members are underlined.

CIAA (16 schools in DE, MD, NC, PA, SC, and VA + 1 FB affiliate in NC)
FB (13+1): Bowie State, Chowan (FB only), Delaware State, Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State, Johnson C. Smith, Lincoln, Livingstone, Morgan State, Shaw, St. Augustine's, Virginia State, Virginia Union, Winston-Salem State
NFB (3): Claflin, Coppin State, UMES

SIAC (16 schools in AL, FL, GA, KY, OH, SC, and TN)
FB (14): Albany State, Allen, Benedict, Central State, Clark Atlanta, Edward Waters, Fort Valley State, Kentucky State, Lane, Miles, Morehouse, Savannah State, SC State, Tuskegee
NFB (2): LeMoyne-Owen, Spring Hill

Note that both conferences maintain an even number of FB (14) and MBB (16) members.

You got to wonder that Talladega College announced that they are looking to add football wants to make a leap to D2 SIAA in the future? I think South Carolina State will try and stay in D1 to join the ASun.

(05-27-2021 09:47 PM)Todor Wrote:  Conferences with a ticket to the NCAA tournament don't die that easily. The openings create interest in schools moving up and filling the voids. Even schools that may not have considered D1 because of the difficulty of finding a conference home.

Look what the WAC pulled off with essentially 2 members, plus a couple who had just joined.

That's true. It seems as if the NCAA treats a "conference", once established, as almost an administrative unit separate from its conference membership. You would think that once a conference falls below 8 members or something, it ceases to exist, but it doesn't seem to work that way, such that a few schools can reorganize around a conference name that still has NCAA standing.

(05-28-2021 05:59 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 08:43 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 07:54 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 04:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-26-2021 02:59 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  How much would you like to bet? I'm willing to bet a dollar to a dime that Kentucky State doesnt get anywhere near the MEAC!

Perhaps if/when the MEAC has to drop to D2...

There isn't going to be a D2 MEAC for Kentucky State to join either because what remains will be absorbed by the CIAA.

There are a couple ways it could go.

(02-15-2021 12:14 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(02-13-2021 04:43 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Assuming that of the remaining 8 MEAC schools, only Howard (NEC), NCCU (Big South), and NSU (Big South) manage to find other D1 homes, there will be 32 schools (plus 1 FB-only affiliate) among the MEAC schools dropping to D2, the CIAA and SIAC schools, and potential future D2 member Edward Waters. Here's how I might split them into 3 conferences:

CIAA (10 schools in NC and SC + 1 FB affiliate in NC)
FB (9+1): Allen, Chowan (FB only), Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State, Johnson C. Smith, Livingstone, SC State, Shaw, St. Augustine's, Winston-Salem State
NFB (1): Claflin

MEAC (10 schools in DE, KY, MD, OH, PA, and VA)
FB (8): Bowie State, Central State, Delaware State, Kentucky State, Lincoln, Morgan State, Virginia State, Virginia Union
NFB (2): Coppin State, UMES

SIAC (12 schools in AL, FL, GA, SC, and TN)
FB (10): Albany State, Benedict, Clark Atlanta, Edward Waters, Fort Valley State, Lane, Miles, Morehouse, Savannah State, Tuskegee
NFB (2): LeMoyne-Owen, Spring Hill

So the demoted MEAC adds 4 schools from the CIAA (Bowie, Lincoln, VA St., VA Union) in exchange for SC St., and also adds 2 schools from the SIAC (Central St., KY St.). The remaining CIAA schools (now incl. SC St.) add 1 school from the SIAC (newcomer Allen). This leaves 11 schools in the SIAC, who are joined by Edward Waters.

As an alternative to the 3-conference D2 alignment above, here's a more conservative 2-conference D2 alignment for the CIAA and SIAC wherein they take in 5 MEAC schools that drop to D2 plus Edward Waters. In this scenario, no schools are exchanged between the CIAA and SIAC. Current MEAC members are underlined.

CIAA (16 schools in DE, MD, NC, PA, SC, and VA + 1 FB affiliate in NC)
FB (13+1): Bowie State, Chowan (FB only), Delaware State, Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State, Johnson C. Smith, Lincoln, Livingstone, Morgan State, Shaw, St. Augustine's, Virginia State, Virginia Union, Winston-Salem State
NFB (3): Claflin, Coppin State, UMES

SIAC (16 schools in AL, FL, GA, KY, OH, SC, and TN)
FB (14): Albany State, Allen, Benedict, Central State, Clark Atlanta, Edward Waters, Fort Valley State, Kentucky State, Lane, Miles, Morehouse, Savannah State, SC State, Tuskegee
NFB (2): LeMoyne-Owen, Spring Hill

Note that both conferences maintain an even number of FB (14) and MBB (16) members.

You got to wonder that Talladega College announced that they are looking to add football wants to make a leap to D2 SIAA in the future? I think South Carolina State will try and stay in D1 to join the ASun.

Talladega College is not part of the conversation, with or without football, so not wondering there. There is no D2 SIAA but there was a SIAA that disbanded in 1942 and included most of the current SEC.

(05-28-2021 06:30 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 09:47 PM)Todor Wrote:  Conferences with a ticket to the NCAA tournament don't die that easily. The openings create interest in schools moving up and filling the voids. Even schools that may not have considered D1 because of the difficulty of finding a conference home.

Look what the WAC pulled off with essentially 2 members, plus a couple who had just joined.

That's true. It seems as if the NCAA treats a "conference", once established, as almost an administrative unit separate from its conference membership. You would think that once a conference falls below 8 members or something, it ceases to exist, but it doesn't seem to work that way, such that a few schools can reorganize around a conference name that still has NCAA standing.

That's essentially the result of the "WAC Rule", passed in 2011. "Continuity" was redefined from "X schools playing in a conference together for Y years" to "conference sponsoring X sports for Y years".

Long thread, where I followed the chain of footnotes through an old NCAA Division I manual. Thread on conference continuity rules. RIP, NoDak

To stay a conference, you need 7 members, and sponsor various combinations of sports. If the conference ceases to qualify, there's a 2-year grace period from the date of withdrawal of the school that drops them below the magic numbers.

A bit I never noticed before--there's a process for terminating a conference's NCAA membership. Notification, Board of Directors votes, NCAA Convention votes.

As the NCAA autobid is, to quote former Governor and former inmate Rod Blagojevich, a f------ valuable thing, I doubt that any conference would be allowed to dissolve--any conference in danger of dissolution will have suitors swooping in to form a "new conference" using the PO Box and autobid of the old conference, making allowances for the leftover schools.

Quote:3.3.5.1 Termination or Suspension. The membership of any member conference failing to maintain the academic or athletics standards required for membership or failing to meet the conditions and obligations of membership may be
suspended or terminated or the member conference otherwise disciplined by a vote of two-thirds of the delegates present and voting at an annual Convention. Membership shall not be suspended or terminated unless: (Revised: 3/8/06)
(a) Notice of intention to suspend or terminate membership, stating the grounds on which such motion will be based, is given in writing to the secretary of this Association and to the president or chancellor of the member conference on or
before the first day of November prior to the Convention;
(b) The Board of Directors approves the notification of intention to move for suspension or termination; and
© Such notice is included in the Official Notice of the annual Convention.
8/7/20 14
3.3.5.1.1 Cessation of Rights and Privileges. All rights and privileges of the member shall cease upon any termination or suspension of conference membership.
3.3.5.2 Failure to Pay Dues. If a member conference fails to pay its annual dues for one year, its membership shall be automatically terminated.

(05-28-2021 12:06 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  As the NCAA autobid is, to quote former Governor and former inmate Rod Blagojevich, a f------ valuable thing, I doubt that any conference would be allowed to dissolve--any conference in danger of dissolution will have suitors swooping in to form a "new conference" using the PO Box and autobid of the old conference, making allowances for the leftover schools.

Right, because the NCAA has made it extremely difficult for any brand new conference to get an immediate autobid, anyone dreaming of bolting their conference and starting a new one would have to find an existing conference as a shell and, like a hermit crab, move into the shell.

In a way, the schools leaving the Southland are using the WAC as their shell to create a new FCS conference, though they are stuck with more than just one or two holdover members. And if MEAC membership dropped low enough, some other group of schools would use the MEAC as their own D-I shell.

(05-28-2021 12:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 12:06 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  As the NCAA autobid is, to quote former Governor and former inmate Rod Blagojevich, a f------ valuable thing, I doubt that any conference would be allowed to dissolve--any conference in danger of dissolution will have suitors swooping in to form a "new conference" using the PO Box and autobid of the old conference, making allowances for the leftover schools.

Right, because the NCAA has made it extremely difficult for any brand new conference to get an immediate autobid, anyone dreaming of bolting their conference and starting a new one would have to find an existing conference as a shell and, like a hermit crab, move into the shell.

In a way, the schools leaving the Southland are using the WAC as their shell to create a new FCS conference, though they are stuck with more than just one or two holdover members. And if MEAC membership dropped low enough, some other group of schools would use the MEAC as their own D-I shell.

Heres the chance for the eastern wing of CUSA to leave!

(05-28-2021 03:10 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 12:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 12:06 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  As the NCAA autobid is, to quote former Governor and former inmate Rod Blagojevich, a f------ valuable thing, I doubt that any conference would be allowed to dissolve--any conference in danger of dissolution will have suitors swooping in to form a "new conference" using the PO Box and autobid of the old conference, making allowances for the leftover schools.

Right, because the NCAA has made it extremely difficult for any brand new conference to get an immediate autobid, anyone dreaming of bolting their conference and starting a new one would have to find an existing conference as a shell and, like a hermit crab, move into the shell.

In a way, the schools leaving the Southland are using the WAC as their shell to create a new FCS conference, though they are stuck with more than just one or two holdover members. And if MEAC membership dropped low enough, some other group of schools would use the MEAC as their own D-I shell.

Heres the chance for the eastern wing of CUSA to leave!

ha, even if the MEAC took in the CUSA-E it wouldn't have a CFP contract for $ distribution. So while they probably could get an ESPN bowl pool contract, there's no access to the G5NYE bowl nor $10 million yearly distribution. But they would have an autobid to NCAA tournaments. Which is better than trying to create a brand new conference.