I tend to agree...

USFFan

(04-18-2021 10:54 PM)usffan Wrote:  

I tend to agree...

USFFan

It's possible but the first necessary step is cutting from 130 to 70-80 despite others here that want to increase FBS to 500 teams.

(04-18-2021 10:54 PM)usffan Wrote:  

I tend to agree...

USFFan

The math dictates that each and every week, 50% of all of those teams will lose their games. Some of them will have losing seasons, maybe a few in a row. (No more cupcakes.) Is the money they might make worth it to live in that world? Will coaches go for that? Alumni? Donors?

With respect to the soccer league—Im curious if NBC can pull the plug on its Premier League contract if this comes to pass? As for a college super league—-I can see this being a straight up pay-for-play league while the left behind remains of college football go back to their current amateur model. Since there would be a competing “pro” league—which would likely soak up most of the tv money—-players in the left behind league would no longer have much of an anti-trust case.

The most important thing of note in this alignment is this:

Notice that the Texas teams (Texas & Texas A&M) and Oklahoma are positioned in the western division which follows the MLB pattern.
Meanwhile the NFL pattern positions the Texas teams in the NFC East (Cowboys) and the AFC South (Texans).

I see large swaths of the country not represented in Stewie’s model. Not going to happen- at least not that small in scale.

He left out the growing states of Arizona and NC

(04-19-2021 12:05 AM)NJMark Wrote:  

(04-18-2021 10:54 PM)usffan Wrote:  

I tend to agree...

USFFan

The math dictates that each and every week, 50% of all of those teams will lose their games. Some of them will have losing seasons, maybe a few in a row. (No more cupcakes.) Is the money they might make worth it to live in that world? Will coaches go for that? Alumni? Donors?

Yup...will Clemson fans be happy with a 6-6 season?

Also, according to every Notre Dame fan over 40...they will never join a league.

I don’t agree. The Power Five already has what the Super League wants: guaranteed top spots at the top level and annual TV revenue regardless of performance in a particular season. The Super League is NOT about better competition - it’s about 100% *guarantees* of money and access (not just a 99% chance, which is something I emphasize heavily as being critical in college sports decisions) that already exist in American pro and college sports.

I imagine they could participate in “non-league” games to pad their schedules.

That list includes everyone in the top 28 in home attendance from 2019 except:

21 Iowa St
22 BYU
25 NC St
26 Mississippi St
28 Oklahoma St

Included schools outside the top 28:

Florida St
Oregon
Arkansas
Miami
UCLA

(04-19-2021 02:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  With respect to the soccer league—Im curious if NBC can pull the plug on its Premier League contract if this comes to pass? As for a college super league—-I can see this being a straight up pay-for-play league while the left behind remains of college football go back to their current amateur model. Since there would be a competing “pro” league—which would likely soak up most of the tv money—-players in the left behind league would no longer have much of an anti-trust case.

Key point here: the Super League isn't really a competitor to the Premier League, but rather the UEFA Champions League. Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and the other marquee English teams will still play in the Premier League (and the other Super League teams will continue to play in their own domestic leagues).

The Champions League is already more valuable worldwide than the Premier League (at least on a per game basis), but that hasn't translated it into being more valuable in the US specifically. A large part of it is simply time zone/dates - the Premier League plays most of their games on weekends, so the US daytime audience is available to them. In contrast, the Champions League (and presumably also the Super League) plays their games midweek, which would be during weekday working hours for US audiences. For various cultural, language and historical reasons, the US also has a natural baseline comfort with English culture (e.g. movies, music, the royal family), so it's not a surprise that the Premier League gets the lion's share of European soccer interest here even though La Liga and Bundesliga are every bit as competitive.

So, the Premier League would continue to have a ton of value even if the Super League is formed, particularly in the US. If anything, it actually affirms the predominance of the Premier League since they'd be getting more guaranteed spots in the Super League. It's akin to how the SEC and Big Ten have guaranteed themselves so many of the top bowl tie-ins.

(04-19-2021 07:47 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-19-2021 02:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  With respect to the soccer league—Im curious if NBC can pull the plug on its Premier League contract if this comes to pass? As for a college super league—-I can see this being a straight up pay-for-play league while the left behind remains of college football go back to their current amateur model. Since there would be a competing “pro” league—which would likely soak up most of the tv money—-players in the left behind league would no longer have much of an anti-trust case.

Key point here: the Super League isn't really a competitor to the Premier League, but rather the UEFA Champions League. Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and the other marquee English teams will still play in the Premier League (and the other Super League teams will continue to play in their own domestic leagues).

The Champions League is already more valuable worldwide than the Premier League (at least on a per game basis), but that hasn't translated it into being more valuable in the US specifically. A large part of it is simply time zone/dates - the Premier League plays most of their games on weekends, so the US daytime audience is available to them. In contrast, the Champions League (and presumably also the Super League) plays their games midweek, which would be during weekday working hours for US audiences. For various cultural, language and historical reasons, the US also has a natural baseline comfort with English culture (e.g. movies, music, the royal family), so it's not a surprise that the Premier League gets the lion's share of European soccer interest here even though La Liga and Bundesliga are every bit as competitive.

So, the Premier League would continue to have a ton of value even if the Super League is formed, particularly in the US. If anything, it actually affirms the predominance of the Premier League since they'd be getting more guaranteed spots in the Super League. It's akin to how the SEC and Big Ten have guaranteed themselves so many of the top bowl tie-ins.

Its very smart of the Super League clubs to be structuring this as a replacement of UEFA instead of a replacement of individual leagues in each country.

With guaranteed status in the Super League, with no ability to be relegated, I do wonder if these clubs will still take domestic play seriously or if they would use those matches to field reserve teams, saving the stars for the midweek Super League games.

(04-19-2021 07:33 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don’t agree. The Power Five already has what the Super League wants: guaranteed top spots at the top level and annual TV revenue regardless of performance in a particular season. The Super League is NOT about better competition - it’s about 100% *guarantees* of money and access (not just a 99% chance, which is something I emphasize heavily as being critical in college sports decisions) that already exist in American pro and college sports.

Agree, the European Super League is basically just the creation of a P5 elite for soccer because these rich clubs are tired of less wealthy, better run clubs beating them.

As to Mandel's Super League proposal, this would result in antitrust investigations galore. Every state whose flagship gets left out will have investigations going, and it will be enough to involve the Feds. The P5/CFP are already generating this sort of revenue.

(04-19-2021 07:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-19-2021 07:47 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-19-2021 02:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  With respect to the soccer league—Im curious if NBC can pull the plug on its Premier League contract if this comes to pass? As for a college super league—-I can see this being a straight up pay-for-play league while the left behind remains of college football go back to their current amateur model. Since there would be a competing “pro” league—which would likely soak up most of the tv money—-players in the left behind league would no longer have much of an anti-trust case.

Key point here: the Super League isn't really a competitor to the Premier League, but rather the UEFA Champions League. Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and the other marquee English teams will still play in the Premier League (and the other Super League teams will continue to play in their own domestic leagues).

The Champions League is already more valuable worldwide than the Premier League (at least on a per game basis), but that hasn't translated it into being more valuable in the US specifically. A large part of it is simply time zone/dates - the Premier League plays most of their games on weekends, so the US daytime audience is available to them. In contrast, the Champions League (and presumably also the Super League) plays their games midweek, which would be during weekday working hours for US audiences. For various cultural, language and historical reasons, the US also has a natural baseline comfort with English culture (e.g. movies, music, the royal family), so it's not a surprise that the Premier League gets the lion's share of European soccer interest here even though La Liga and Bundesliga are every bit as competitive.

So, the Premier League would continue to have a ton of value even if the Super League is formed, particularly in the US. If anything, it actually affirms the predominance of the Premier League since they'd be getting more guaranteed spots in the Super League. It's akin to how the SEC and Big Ten have guaranteed themselves so many of the top bowl tie-ins.

Its very smart of the Super League clubs to be structuring this as a replacement of UEFA instead of a replacement of individual leagues in each country.

With guaranteed status in the Super League, with no ability to be relegated, I do wonder if these clubs will still take domestic play seriously or if they would use those matches to field reserve teams, saving the stars for the midweek Super League games.

I still think the domestic leagues are critical, particularly in England. If we're applying this to college sports, the Super League would be a formalized non-conference slate like the ACC-Big Ten Challenge whereas the domestic league is the conference schedule. As much as non-conference games might be fun, there's still huge importance in winning your conference.

We can see in England that success in the Champions League does NOT provide any leeway with fans in terms of Premier League performance. Premier League fans make SEC football fans look calm and rational - Premier League coaches actually DO get fired for a 3-game losing streak even if they had been successful for 10 seasons in a row. So, there definitely won't be any holding back of talent for Premier League games.

No way they include West Virginia over Pitt

(04-19-2021 07:47 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-19-2021 02:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  With respect to the soccer league—Im curious if NBC can pull the plug on its Premier League contract if this comes to pass? As for a college super league—-I can see this being a straight up pay-for-play league while the left behind remains of college football go back to their current amateur model. Since there would be a competing “pro” league—which would likely soak up most of the tv money—-players in the left behind league would no longer have much of an anti-trust case.

Key point here: the Super League isn't really a competitor to the Premier League, but rather the UEFA Champions League. Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and the other marquee English teams will still play in the Premier League (and the other Super League teams will continue to play in their own domestic leagues).

The Champions League is already more valuable worldwide than the Premier League (at least on a per game basis), but that hasn't translated it into being more valuable in the US specifically. A large part of it is simply time zone/dates - the Premier League plays most of their games on weekends, so the US daytime audience is available to them. In contrast, the Champions League (and presumably also the Super League) plays their games midweek, which would be during weekday working hours for US audiences. For various cultural, language and historical reasons, the US also has a natural baseline comfort with English culture (e.g. movies, music, the royal family), so it's not a surprise that the Premier League gets the lion's share of European soccer interest here even though La Liga and Bundesliga are every bit as competitive.

So, the Premier League would continue to have a ton of value even if the Super League is formed, particularly in the US. If anything, it actually affirms the predominance of the Premier League since they'd be getting more guaranteed spots in the Super League. It's akin to how the SEC and Big Ten have guaranteed themselves so many of the top bowl tie-ins.

The Premier League has said it would expel any teams that end up joining this league, so it might end up being an EPL competitor whether the teams involved like it or not.

https://onefootball.com/en/news/premier-...t-32814708

(04-19-2021 08:13 AM)Mav Wrote:  

(04-19-2021 07:47 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-19-2021 02:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  With respect to the soccer league—Im curious if NBC can pull the plug on its Premier League contract if this comes to pass? As for a college super league—-I can see this being a straight up pay-for-play league while the left behind remains of college football go back to their current amateur model. Since there would be a competing “pro” league—which would likely soak up most of the tv money—-players in the left behind league would no longer have much of an anti-trust case.

Key point here: the Super League isn't really a competitor to the Premier League, but rather the UEFA Champions League. Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and the other marquee English teams will still play in the Premier League (and the other Super League teams will continue to play in their own domestic leagues).

The Champions League is already more valuable worldwide than the Premier League (at least on a per game basis), but that hasn't translated it into being more valuable in the US specifically. A large part of it is simply time zone/dates - the Premier League plays most of their games on weekends, so the US daytime audience is available to them. In contrast, the Champions League (and presumably also the Super League) plays their games midweek, which would be during weekday working hours for US audiences. For various cultural, language and historical reasons, the US also has a natural baseline comfort with English culture (e.g. movies, music, the royal family), so it's not a surprise that the Premier League gets the lion's share of European soccer interest here even though La Liga and Bundesliga are every bit as competitive.

So, the Premier League would continue to have a ton of value even if the Super League is formed, particularly in the US. If anything, it actually affirms the predominance of the Premier League since they'd be getting more guaranteed spots in the Super League. It's akin to how the SEC and Big Ten have guaranteed themselves so many of the top bowl tie-ins.

The Premier League has said it would expel any teams that end up joining this league, so it might end up being an EPL competitor whether the teams involved like it or not.

https://onefootball.com/en/news/premier-...t-32814708

That seems like a completely empty threat to me.

This would be like Major League Baseball expelling the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Dodgers or the Big Ten expelling Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Wisconsin.

If the Premier League followed through with that type of threat, it would literally be relegating the entire league. Whatever revenue it had would evaporate overnight. I can't see that realistically happening.

(04-19-2021 08:05 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  No way they include West Virginia over Pitt

This is why I always say to think like a university president.

It might be a better football league to include, say, Virginia Tech and West Virginia.

However, the schools that university presidents fight over are institutions such as UNC and UVA (who aren't on this list) much more so than VT and WVU.

As I've noted earlier, the Power Five IS the Super League concept realized already.

(04-19-2021 08:04 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-19-2021 07:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-19-2021 07:47 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-19-2021 02:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  With respect to the soccer league—Im curious if NBC can pull the plug on its Premier League contract if this comes to pass? As for a college super league—-I can see this being a straight up pay-for-play league while the left behind remains of college football go back to their current amateur model. Since there would be a competing “pro” league—which would likely soak up most of the tv money—-players in the left behind league would no longer have much of an anti-trust case.

Key point here: the Super League isn't really a competitor to the Premier League, but rather the UEFA Champions League. Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and the other marquee English teams will still play in the Premier League (and the other Super League teams will continue to play in their own domestic leagues).

The Champions League is already more valuable worldwide than the Premier League (at least on a per game basis), but that hasn't translated it into being more valuable in the US specifically. A large part of it is simply time zone/dates - the Premier League plays most of their games on weekends, so the US daytime audience is available to them. In contrast, the Champions League (and presumably also the Super League) plays their games midweek, which would be during weekday working hours for US audiences. For various cultural, language and historical reasons, the US also has a natural baseline comfort with English culture (e.g. movies, music, the royal family), so it's not a surprise that the Premier League gets the lion's share of European soccer interest here even though La Liga and Bundesliga are every bit as competitive.

So, the Premier League would continue to have a ton of value even if the Super League is formed, particularly in the US. If anything, it actually affirms the predominance of the Premier League since they'd be getting more guaranteed spots in the Super League. It's akin to how the SEC and Big Ten have guaranteed themselves so many of the top bowl tie-ins.

Its very smart of the Super League clubs to be structuring this as a replacement of UEFA instead of a replacement of individual leagues in each country.

With guaranteed status in the Super League, with no ability to be relegated, I do wonder if these clubs will still take domestic play seriously or if they would use those matches to field reserve teams, saving the stars for the midweek Super League games.

I still think the domestic leagues are critical, particularly in England. If we're applying this to college sports, the Super League would be a formalized non-conference slate like the ACC-Big Ten Challenge whereas the domestic league is the conference schedule. As much as non-conference games might be fun, there's still huge importance in winning your conference.

We can see in England that success in the Champions League does NOT provide any leeway with fans in terms of Premier League performance. Premier League fans make SEC football fans look calm and rational - Premier League coaches actually DO get fired for a 3-game losing streak even if they had been successful for 10 seasons in a row. So, there definitely won't be any holding back of talent for Premier League games.

I view it as akin to more the NCAA tournament as opposed to a non conference slate of games.

If Duke, UNC, and Kentucky were guaranteed admission into a NCAA tournament every year that happened alongside conference play, would they take their conference games as seriously?