(07-30-2021 09:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Marvin Miller is in the HOF, and he enabled the steroids era.

Is he in with the “executives”?

(07-29-2021 09:10 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:59 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:28 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  think about this for a sec….Gibson caused the mound to be lowered….schilling did it after the fact…

Gibson was just an absolute beast for about 11-12 years. 7-2 in the World Series, in addition to all the other stuff.

Don Sutton (career 324-256) once talked about how the 300-game winners were all part of an informal “club”, whose members would sometimes have group dinners in Cooperstown, at All-Star Games, spring training, etc. According to Sutton, they could get very touchy if anyone with less than 300 wins ever tried to crash the party. But he said they willingly made exceptions for Bob Gibson (251-174) and Sandy Koufax (165-87). Why?


“Because we all knew they were better than us.”

lowest season ERA in baseball history - - >>> lowered the mound

ironically, Flaherty (my cards’ stud that started 9-0) was on pace to challenge before his last outing yielded a double fk - shelled + IR…

one thing I know…nuts zongo loves baseball way more than politics…

Gibson 1968 22-9 record. 28 complete games in 34 starts. 1.12 ERA. 13 shutouts.

(01-28-2021 09:52 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  To me, fame means fame.

I think of Bill Mazeroski. He was clearly the best defensive second baseman of his era, very likely ever, and there are even defensive metrics stating that he was the best defensive player of all time at any position. And if I asked you to name the ten most impactful home runs in baseball history, I would bet that you can't get to number 5 on that list without his name coming up (I can't get past 3). Those two things scream FAME to me, regardless of his cumulative offensive totals.

Using the fame standard rather than an accumulation standard, Roger Maris probably belongs, and there are arguments for people like Bobby Thomson and Don Larsen. And yes, I know there are exhibits memorializing their accomplishments, I've been there and seen them. But if fame is the standard, I think they belong before a guy who got 3000 hits by hitting .260 for 25 years.

Mazeroski's home run is still the only World Series game 7 walkoff home run ever hit. And one of only two home runs ever hit that ended a World Series (Joe Carter of Toronto hit the other one, in game 6). By definition, it has to be the biggest home run in MLB history. But it is never considered as such.

(07-29-2021 09:12 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 09:03 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:40 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its so blatantly obvious Bonds did not begin juicing until late in his career.

The HOF is BS.

if I had to pick my fave ‘pure strokes’ of all time…williams vs. musial vs. bonds is a toughie to call ‘the best ever’…

Ken Griffey JR had a sweet stroke as well.

Hard to argue anyone against Ted Williams' swing though.

I loved the distinctive swings of the Big Red Machine.
Pete Rose had a big crouch and had the bat way behind his head.
Joe Morgan had it high and back and did his elbow twitch.
Ken Griffey Senior was more of a classic stance
Johnny Bench was just calm straight up.
Tony Perez kind of had his bat cocked.

(07-30-2021 11:26 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 09:12 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 09:03 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:40 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its so blatantly obvious Bonds did not begin juicing until late in his career.

The HOF is BS.

if I had to pick my fave ‘pure strokes’ of all time…williams vs. musial vs. bonds is a toughie to call ‘the best ever’…

Ken Griffey JR had a sweet stroke as well.

Hard to argue anyone against Ted Williams' swing though.

I loved the distinctive swings of the Big Red Machine.
Pete Rose had a big crouch and had the bat way behind his head.
Joe Morgan had it high and back and did his elbow twitch.
Ken Griffey Senior was more of a classic stance
Johnny Bench was just calm straight up.
Tony Perez kind of had his bat cocked.

as much as I hated the reds as a tyke, you named 'em all to perfection...

the Joe Morgan 'twitch' was some kind of unique as was Rose's laying the bat in parallel....I can still hear Garagiola's voice describing the 'techniques' when the those guys dominated the NL west in the 70s....yeah, that was west back then....

(07-30-2021 09:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If I had a vote for the baseball HOF, my ballot would be Clemens, Bonds, and Schilling.

Marvin Miller is in the HOF, and he enabled the steroids era.

IMO McGwire should be in the HOF as well, he was juicing but so were half the pitchers he went deep on.

Don't even get me started on Pete Rose, he has suffered long enough.

I will NEVER watch an MLB game again.

(07-30-2021 04:39 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  I will NEVER watch an MLB game again.

you’re missing out in today’s version…your choice…

Rose needs to be there

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

(07-30-2021 11:26 AM)bullet Wrote:  I loved the distinctive swings of the Big Red Machine.
Pete Rose had a big crouch and had the bat way behind his head.
Joe Morgan had it high and back and did his elbow twitch.
Ken Griffey Senior was more of a classic stance
Johnny Bench was just calm straight up.
Tony Perez kind of had his bat cocked.

Living in Houston and being an Astros fan, the Big Red Machine always reminds me of what could have been. Had the Astros merely kept the young talent that they developed in the late 1960s, they would have been a pretty formidable opponent throughout the 1970s.

Cesar Cedeno, CF
Joe Morgan, 2B
Jim Wynn, LF
Rusty Staub, RF
John Mayberry/Bob Watson platoon, 1B
Doug Rader, 3B
Denis Menke/Roger Metzger, SS
Jerry Grote, C
Starters--Larry Dierker, Don Wilson, Mike Cuellar, Jerry Reuss, Ken Forsch, Denny Lemaster, J.R. Richard, Dave Roberts, Joaquin Andujar
Bullpen--Dave Giusti, Fred Gladding, Jim Ray, George Culver, Tom Griffin
Bench--C John Bateman (later traded by Phillies for Tim McCarver), C Cliff Johnson, IF Sandy Alomar, OF Jose Cruz, OF Cesar Geronimo, OF Greg Gross, OF Mike Easler

Of course, Morgan, Menke, Geronimo, and Jack Billingham (whom I don't count because he was received in return for the awful trade of Staub) went from the Astros to the Reds in perhaps the worst trade of all. Probably not as deep offensively as the BRM (but pull Morgan out of the BRM and they are a lesser offensive force), but probably better pitching, and about a push defensively (in 1970s, Reds' Gold Gloves without Morgan and Geronimo: Bench 8, Helms 2, Concepcion 5, Rose 1, total 16; Astros with Morgan and Geronimo: Morgan 5, Rader 5, Metzger 1, Geronimo 4, Cedeno 5, total 20).

With a little bit of luck, they could have been the Big Orange Machine.