Quote:Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton claimed during an interview on her new podcast last week that young people are leaving Christianity because it has become too “judgmental” and “alienating.”

Speaking with pastor and social justice advocate William J. Barber II, who heads Greenleaf Christian Church in Goldsboro, North Carolina, Clinton also asserted that Black Lives Matter is “a theological statement” and urged the American church to “take a hard look at itself and try to figure out how it can be a real partner in this moment of moral awakening.”

Barber was a guest on “You and Me Both with Hillary Clinton,” the failed presidential candidate’s latest project that sets out to offer “astute, nuanced” takes on current issues with guests such as failed Georgia Democratic gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams and feminist Gloria Steinem, among others.

Barber, who organized the Moral Mondays movement in North Carolina, co-chairs the Poor People’s Campaign, and wrote a new book, titled “We Are Called to Be a Movement,” spoke to Clinton about his life and what he believes the role of the church should be in the strife afflicting the country.

“Well, let’s prosecute the case a little bit and do a little theology and admit from at least Western culture and American culture, we have two great problems that have affected and infected theology in a bad way,” Barber said at one point. “And that is the genocide of First Nations people and the enslavement of African Americans that were all rooted in racism and interestingly enough, the exclusion and oppression of women.”

Referencing something one of his professors told him, Barber said, “To be a Christian—to be born again, sprinkle whatever you call it—and to claim the Holy Spirit, is to have a quarrel with the world’s systems of injustice. And if whatever you claim you have doesn’t produce a quarrel with injustice, then your claim of it being the Spirit with the big S is suspect.”

Clinton agreed, adding, “When you think about the very deliberate, concerted effort by one political party to basically try to own Christianity and it overlooks the role of the African American church, it overlooks, as you say, a lot of theology, a lot of history. It also overlooks this moment in time. You know, Black Lives Matter I view as you know very profoundly as a theological statement.”

Clinton then wondered aloud if the country is headed toward “the moral reckoning that has been distorted and perverted and postponed for so long,” prompting Barber to predict “a third Reconstruction.”

“Every generation has their moment,” Barber said. “We’ve had two reconstructions, one between 1868 and 1896. And then we had the second reconstruction, 1954 to 1968. And I think America needs a third Reconstruction. I think this is the birth pains of it.”

Clinton, a Methodist, later asked Barber what the church should be doing differently, given that a lot of young people are leaving it, a statistic she blamed on judgmental attitudes.

“A lot of young people are leaving the church, in part because the way they understand what Christianity has become is, you know, so judgmental, so alienating that they think to themselves, well, I don’t need that. I don’t want to be part of that. So this should also be a time for the church to take a hard look at itself and try to figure out how it can be a real partner in this moment of moral awakening,” she said.

“Young people are very open to faith that is about transformation, about love, about justice, about equality, about the essence, the essence of what it means to be people of faith,” Barber responded. “And I think we have to be engaged. There’s no way in the days in which we live the church can stay quarantined inside of the four walls of a building because that’s never what it was intended to do.”

Link


Yeah, Christianity should be more like Islam/Sharia...DECAPITATE ALL INFIDELS AND STONE ALL THE WOMEN! That wouldn't be too judgemental...HITLERy should volunteer to be the first to be stoned!

Bye , the church should not conform to the world. We are suppose to be the light on the hill for hope. The world is a broken fallen place.

The church is not perfect and has done wrong. But to say we need to change our beliefs to bring young people in? Nope, the church will shrink but be stronger in the long run.

People want a cozy Christianity that makes them feel good. That is not Christianity, that is paganism.

BLM is a Marxist org. The goal of Marxism, economic or especially Cultural, is the the destruction of Christianity and W. Civilization.

Shut up you haint

Actually, in the case of the church I formerly attended, liberalization of church doctrine drove away a lot the parishioners. We were still attending and noticed people leaving left and right. Some friends of ours went to another church in the area and said that a bunch of other people that had left our church were there as well.

It started out with little things here and there. Then the gay marriage issue took center stage. This past year it because full on BLM. This summer they had a protest scheduled, when we weren't able to attend church due to shelter in place, and many church goers announced they were not going to attend (most politely said it was due to CV-19 concerns or they had vacation).

We went back once after the church re-opened and this was about a week after the Kenosha unrest. The associate pastor, who is new (and white), got up and evangelized that he was praying for his black brothers and sisters, Jacob Blake, the family of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, etc. etc. and white man this, white man that. That was our last day, and from I have heard about a dozen additional people left as well.

I get they might be trying to attract a more woke, younger audience, but I live in an area were there are not to many of those sort of people unless you are going to drive them away from other areas nearby (and I imagine there are churches where those people live that are just as woke so there is no need for them to drive over to ours.

Heaven is like the equality of opportunity/equality of outcome debate. Everyone has the opportunity, but not everyone is willing to put forth the effort. Acting like you don’t have to do anything to obtain it would be a huge disservice to those who have not yet accepted Christ. God has given the path and, quite frankly, doesn’t seem to be in the “participation trophy” group. Tolerance is the root of many of society’s problems. Acceptance of tolerated immortality is the tree that grows from that root.

Been watching churches of many Christian denominations moving to SJW status and away from Christian theology. Co-opted by the left.

Sickening. Worse still, some members won't confront their church leadership and ask them why?

Our ultimate security comes as we yoke ourselves to God and Jesus Christ! His commandments are for us! Of course we have the freedom and liberty to choose...that is one of the primary purposes of our existence. But, we have to choose to follow Him and become more like Him. It's thousands of daily choices and seemingly small thoughts, words, and acts.

If you want to be part of something great, something transformative - be part of His great work to share His message and gather scattered Israel! Now is the perfect time to embrace a 'new normal' that includes turning your heart to God, repenting daily, ministering to and serving others, keeping and eternal perspective and living each day to be better prepared to meet God.

(10-09-2020 03:14 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Actually, in the case of the church I formerly attended, liberalization of church doctrine drove away a lot the parishioners. We were still attending and noticed people leaving left and right. Some friends of ours went to another church in the area and said that a bunch of other people that had left our church were there as well.

It started out with little things here and there. Then the gay marriage issue took center stage. This past year it because full on BLM. This summer they had a protest scheduled, when we weren't able to attend church due to shelter in place, and many church goers announced they were not going to attend (most politely said it was due to CV-19 concerns or they had vacation).

We went back once after the church re-opened and this was about a week after the Kenosha unrest. The associate pastor, who is new (and white), got up and evangelized that he was praying for his black brothers and sisters, Jacob Blake, the family of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, etc. etc. and white man this, white man that. That was our last day, and from I have heard about a dozen additional people left as well.

I get they might be trying to attract a more woke, younger audience, but I live in an area were there are not to many of those sort of people unless you are going to drive them away from other areas nearby (and I imagine there are churches where those people live that are just as woke so there is no need for them to drive over to ours.

I'm pretty fed up with the leftist politics getting into the church.

There simply is no room for Bible based Christianity in the lefts version of religion. Literally everything she is saying is in DIRECT conflict with the Bible. The NT deals with this idea directly, any church that is changing to fit the culture or times is in apostasy.

In fact the NT is very clear that the further away society or a nation gets from the Bible, the more vital it is for Christians to stand on the Word of God and what it teaches. WE DO NOT CHANGE OR ALLOW SOCIETY TO INFLUENCE US, CHRIST SAVED US TO INFLUENCE AND CHANGE THEM. WE ARE NOT MADE TO CONFORM TO THE WORLD WE ARE MADE TO STAND OUT FROM THE WORLD.

This issue is an ideal litmus test that shows who truly believes in the Gospel and the Bible and who just pretends to believe but really does not in their heart. A TRUE believer knows the Word is the ONLY truth in this fallen, wicked world, and that the wisdom of the world is foolishness and destruction. There is no such thing as changing core doctrine or Christianity to fit the culture. Its not even a debate, there is no middle ground here.

A person who does NOT truly believe thinks its reasonable to change Christianity and doctrine to better fit the worlds ideas and wisdom, to better fit its modern culture. None of its is actually real in their heart, its just an idea that makes society a little better so changing it is fine and actually a good idea. Core doctrines are not important because its just an idea and fairy tale that has some positive overall impact.

Anyone who think themselves a Christian should consider that and consider how they truly feel about what she is saying. Both Jesus and Paul tell us to look closely at ourselves to see if our faith is genuine. This is a really good litmus test.

True genuine faith (salvation) is life changing and produces fruits and works from a pure heart to glorify Christ, not ourselves. Genuine faith means the Holy Spirit lives within you and you KNOW what she is saying is straight from Satan Himself. There is NO room for compromise on the Gospel and the Word, NO ONE who is saved and received the Holy Spirit will believe there is. Evey fiber of your being will scream THIS IS WRONG, THIS IS BLASPHEMY.

“You and Me Both with Hillary Clinton,”...

Uh, no thank you.

Paul said:
"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." Rom 12:2


Jesus said:
“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven." Matt 5:14-16


John said:
"Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:15

(10-09-2020 03:14 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Actually, in the case of the church I formerly attended, liberalization of church doctrine drove away a lot the parishioners. We were still attending and noticed people leaving left and right. Some friends of ours went to another church in the area and said that a bunch of other people that had left our church were there as well.

It started out with little things here and there. Then the gay marriage issue took center stage. This past year it because full on BLM. This summer they had a protest scheduled, when we weren't able to attend church due to shelter in place, and many church goers announced they were not going to attend (most politely said it was due to CV-19 concerns or they had vacation).

We went back once after the church re-opened and this was about a week after the Kenosha unrest. The associate pastor, who is new (and white), got up and evangelized that he was praying for his black brothers and sisters, Jacob Blake, the family of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, etc. etc. and white man this, white man that. That was our last day, and from I have heard about a dozen additional people left as well.

I get they might be trying to attract a more woke, younger audience, but I live in an area were there are not to many of those sort of people unless you are going to drive them away from other areas nearby (and I imagine there are churches where those people live that are just as woke so there is no need for them to drive over to ours.

He isn't or doesn't understand the message of Christianity. That type of message is extremely harmful and dangerous. And ever notice how those whites, pastor-professor-politician-business owner-ceo-head coach, never give up their position of "power".

Edit, it is Animal Farm, some are more special than others.

The New Testament churches were not exempt from compromised or wrong doctrine. And many of these so-called church leaders are guilty of twisting doctrine. Some do it intentionally while others are simply misled.

But just because someone is a "church leader" doesn't mean they are on solid doctrinal footing.

1 Corinthians (A.D. 55)
Paul writes this letter to solve problems of manners, morals, and beliefs within the church. The letter demonstrates that lamentable conditions in the church do not characterize the postapostolic church alone.

1 Timothy (A.D. 63-64)
The letter proceeds from a greeting to a warning against false teachers who mishandle the law. Paul then recalls his own experience of conversion and commission to apostleship and charges Timothy to cling tenaciously to orthodox Christian faith.

Titus (A.D. 63-64)As in 1 Timothy, he warns against false teachers and issues instructions to various classes of Christians on proper conduct. The doctrinal basis for these instructions is God’s grace, and the experiential basis for these instructions is regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

Source: The 3-Minute Cheat Sheet for Understanding Paul’s Letters

(10-09-2020 04:50 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  The New Testament churches were not exempt from compromised or wrong doctrine. And many of these so-called church leaders are guilty of twisting doctrine. Some do it intentionally while others are simply misled.

But just because someone is a "church leader" doesn't mean they are on solid doctrinal footing.

1 Corinthians (A.D. 55)
Paul writes this letter to solve problems of manners, morals, and beliefs within the church. The letter demonstrates that lamentable conditions in the church do not characterize the postapostolic church alone.

1 Timothy (A.D. 63-64)
The letter proceeds from a greeting to a warning against false teachers who mishandle the law. Paul then recalls his own experience of conversion and commission to apostleship and charges Timothy to cling tenaciously to orthodox Christian faith.

Titus (A.D. 63-64)As in 1 Timothy, he warns against false teachers and issues instructions to various classes of Christians on proper conduct. The doctrinal basis for these instructions is God’s grace, and the experiential basis for these instructions is regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

Source: The 3-Minute Cheat Sheet for Understanding Paul’s Letters

This entire discussion just exposes how little some church "leaders" read or care about the Word and the faith.

Nearly half the NT was about Paul dealing with early churches compromising and conforming to the lost world around them and Paul directly rebuking any attempts to do so and strongly warning them of such things.

Here we are 2000 years later and nothing has changed with these corrupt, false church "leaders".

This is also a lesson as to why its dangerous and foolish to blindly place your faith and truth in men and church groups to understand doctrine and the Bible.

If you are never reading and studying your Bible, if you are not devoting your time and life to seeking God and His truth then how are you to know when you are led astray? God did not keep His Word and truth around for 2000+ years just for it to collect dust on your shelf. How can you be a Christian and not seek to read, study and meditate on God's Word? How are you going to grow spiritually? You can't.

A wise and faithful servant studies the Word and seeks Gods wisdom so he will will know if he and his family is being led astray. Just as he will know when he is truly being watered and fed the truth and wisdom of Gods Word from his church and its leaders.

You don't have to be a scholar, but you most certainly should not be totally blind and ignorant either.

Judgmental, nope none of the libtard organizations will get you canceled if you don't like their values. Mainstream Christians were never about cancel culture, but there have always been fringe groups that taint all Christians.

(10-09-2020 02:50 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Quote:Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton claimed during an interview on her new podcast last week that young people are leaving Christianity because it has become too “judgmental” and “alienating.”

Speaking with pastor and social justice advocate William J. Barber II, who heads Greenleaf Christian Church in Goldsboro, North Carolina, Clinton also asserted that Black Lives Matter is “a theological statement” and urged the American church to “take a hard look at itself and try to figure out how it can be a real partner in this moment of moral awakening.”

Barber was a guest on “You and Me Both with Hillary Clinton,” the failed presidential candidate’s latest project that sets out to offer “astute, nuanced” takes on current issues with guests such as failed Georgia Democratic gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams and feminist Gloria Steinem, among others.

Barber, who organized the Moral Mondays movement in North Carolina, co-chairs the Poor People’s Campaign, and wrote a new book, titled “We Are Called to Be a Movement,” spoke to Clinton about his life and what he believes the role of the church should be in the strife afflicting the country.

“Well, let’s prosecute the case a little bit and do a little theology and admit from at least Western culture and American culture, we have two great problems that have affected and infected theology in a bad way,” Barber said at one point. “And that is the genocide of First Nations people and the enslavement of African Americans that were all rooted in racism and interestingly enough, the exclusion and oppression of women.”

Referencing something one of his professors told him, Barber said, “To be a Christian—to be born again, sprinkle whatever you call it—and to claim the Holy Spirit, is to have a quarrel with the world’s systems of injustice. And if whatever you claim you have doesn’t produce a quarrel with injustice, then your claim of it being the Spirit with the big S is suspect.”

Clinton agreed, adding, “When you think about the very deliberate, concerted effort by one political party to basically try to own Christianity and it overlooks the role of the African American church, it overlooks, as you say, a lot of theology, a lot of history. It also overlooks this moment in time. You know, Black Lives Matter I view as you know very profoundly as a theological statement.”

Clinton then wondered aloud if the country is headed toward “the moral reckoning that has been distorted and perverted and postponed for so long,” prompting Barber to predict “a third Reconstruction.”

“Every generation has their moment,” Barber said. “We’ve had two reconstructions, one between 1868 and 1896. And then we had the second reconstruction, 1954 to 1968. And I think America needs a third Reconstruction. I think this is the birth pains of it.”

Clinton, a Methodist, later asked Barber what the church should be doing differently, given that a lot of young people are leaving it, a statistic she blamed on judgmental attitudes.

“A lot of young people are leaving the church, in part because the way they understand what Christianity has become is, you know, so judgmental, so alienating that they think to themselves, well, I don’t need that. I don’t want to be part of that. So this should also be a time for the church to take a hard look at itself and try to figure out how it can be a real partner in this moment of moral awakening,” she said.

“Young people are very open to faith that is about transformation, about love, about justice, about equality, about the essence, the essence of what it means to be people of faith,” Barber responded. “And I think we have to be engaged. There’s no way in the days in which we live the church can stay quarantined inside of the four walls of a building because that’s never what it was intended to do.”

Link


Yeah, Christianity should be more like Islam/Sharia...DECAPITATE ALL INFIDELS AND STONE ALL THE WOMEN! That wouldn't be too judgemental...HITLERy should volunteer to be the first to be stoned!

From what I can tell, young people may be the most judgmental demographic in the US. They absolutely love being judgmental. The only time they have an issue with it is when someone else is doing the judging.

(10-09-2020 03:18 PM)banker Wrote:  Heaven is like the equality of opportunity/equality of outcome debate. Everyone has the opportunity, but not everyone is willing to put forth the effort. Acting like you don’t have to do anything to obtain it would be a huge disservice to those who have not yet accepted Christ. God has given the path and, quite frankly, doesn’t seem to be in the “participation trophy” group. Tolerance is the root of many of society’s problems. Acceptance of tolerated immortality is the tree that grows from that root.

Correct. But understand that the Marxist/Secularist appropriation of mainline denominations is an attempt to wrap he Marxism sandwich in a Holy bun so they can complete the poisoning of religion.

This has been going on since ~ 1956 when LBJ as a Senator pushed through a bill that would make Churches lose their tax exempt status if hey took a political stance. The purpose of that legislation was to silence the Church's voice on matters where their sway was powerful enough to derail legislation. Without a moral compass in the Church to regulate morality secularism invaded public schools, denied God, and soon Prayer in school was under assault thanks to O'Hare and others. Then came abortion. Affirmative action seemed innocuous enough until sexual orientation was given the status of minority. Then hate crime was used to silence further debate on a matter directly at odds with scripture. But backing up it is important to note that also developing from the 80's on Marxists such as James Cone who wrote "God of the Oppressed" which serves as a how to book on twisting Christian terminology to create Marxist doctrine and removes the sin that occurs when those claiming oppressed status murder those they hold responsible, since Cone declares that the oppressed are without sin (a wholly heretical concept) the seminaries and churches that are a part o the World Council of Churches have been pressured to go along with these doctrines. By the 90's seminarians who disagreed with these stances were ostracized by their professors and classmates until nobody stood against the warping of scripture. Sola scriptura was abandoned and interpreting or "re-imagining" scripture took the place of serious Biblical study at these schools. All of this was utilized along with the hate crimes bill and in connection with tax status to shove the homosexual agenda down the throats of mainline denominations.

Well now you see the rotten fruit it has produced. The pastors of these churches fully declare heresy and apostasy to their congregations and do so not in the name of Christ who may or may not be directly mentioned but in the name of love and inclusion. Forgotten is the direction to love the sinner but hate the sin. Forgotten is contrition (being truly sorry for ones sins) restitution (making amends for wrongs done), confession whether to God in prayer for a protestant or to a Priest for a Catholic because sin is judgmental. Instead what the generation of those never disciplined by parents, who rejected the formal teachings of the Church, who were coddled by the secular education system, and socially promoted, and all told how special they were insist of a message every week that says God loves you just as you are.

That's sweet, but it's not what God imparted through scripture. God wants our love, but expects our obedience and the positive side of that message is we are responsible for our sins, but if we choose what is right we find a blessing in it. Our true loving God wants us to have the best lives possible and to avoid that which destroys the body, mind and soul. And true parents who love their children do exactly the same. They discipline to teach the consequences of sin, the bless what is good in their children, and they do this in hopes that they will have the best lives possible and avoid the destruction and death that arises from sin.

But that message is long gone. Now a suffering, lost, and miserable representation of humanity are told God loves them just as they are, lost, suffering, and doomed. There is only one entity that loves that and it isn't God!

But make no mistake the surest way to destroy the United States is to declare that every feeling and every pleasure is acceptable and that those who would correct you are evil. It is in this world that God is replaced by the Socialist State who captures their souls by giving them a little bit of everything the world has to offer. Who tells them that there is no need to discipline the body, and that recognition is the reward for putting self first. It is the total living out of the 3 temptations of Christ and the tempter is the same, only hiding behind government you never see the real face of Satan.

So yes, everything the left is now teaching, encouraging, and utilizing is strictly evil. The only difference is that almost 3 generations of young people have been told that those who want to conform to God's law, repent of sin, and celebrate salvation are the evil ones, and who better to convince them of this lie than clergy trained in the devil's rhetoric.

Let the denominational churches die. Teach the Bible in your homes, give your tithes directly to the widows, orphans, poor, sick, and the strangers in your regions who need help. But teach the truth and let the false church die and don't look back as Lot's wife did on Sodom. When evil perishes it is no time for regret.

While I'm not a Catholic, watching the Pope leads me to believe that he is an outright communist. The guy is advocating for the redistribution of wealth and the elimination of private property.

I wonder if he's even ever read the Bible.