Specifically, I'm talking about basketball.

Should conferences be credited for (1) national championships won by schools who weren the league at that time, or (2) should they be credited for championships won by teams who are currently on their league?

Looking at the past 25 years where a championship was actually awarded (1995-2019), here is the breakdown of championships won the first way:

Pac-10/12: 2 (UCLA 1995; Arizona 1997)
Big 12: 1 (Kansas 2008)
Big Ten: 1 (Michigan State 2000)
AAC: 1 (UConn 2014)
SEC: 5 (Kentucky 1996, '98, '12; Florida '06, '07)
Big East: 7 (UConn 1999, '04, '11; Syracuse 2003; Louisville 2013; Villanova 2016, '18)
ACC: 8 (Duke 2001, '10, '15; Maryland 2002; UNC 2005, '09, '17; Virginia 2019)

And the second way:

Pac 10/12: 2
Big 12: 1
Big Ten: 2
SEC: 5
Big East: 6
ACC: 9

Teams who are currently in their league.

I think it's context dependent. If you are talking about the power of the current conference, I think you cite that history that includes a team like Miami that won its titles in another conference. If you are talking historically or in many other aspects, you credit the conference where it was won. I also think that titles won in other conferences are worth denoting in most cases...Miami obviously sucked from day one in the ACC for instance.

Also, all SEC titles are shared. Mississippi State, Ole Miss, and Vanderbilt share as much in Alabama winning a national title as Alabama does. [insert SEC chants]

(07-09-2020 11:45 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  In which way do you credit conferences for national championships?

In no way. Teams, not conferences, win championships.

Last season's football championship trophy, does it live in John Swofford's office? No, it's at Clemson. Why is that? Because Clemson's football team, not the conference, won the title. Are there t-shirts and hats that say "SEC 2019 Baseball National Champs"? No. But I'm sure there are shirts and hats that say something like "Vanderbilt 2019 Baseball National Champs".

(07-09-2020 12:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 11:45 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  In which way do you credit conferences for national championships?

In no way. Teams, not conferences, win championships.

Last season's football championship trophy, does it live in John Swofford's office? No, it's at Clemson. Why is that? Because Clemson's football team, not the conference, won the title. Are there t-shirts and hats that say "SEC 2019 Baseball National Champs"? No. But I'm sure there are shirts and hats that say something like "Vanderbilt 2019 Baseball National Champs".

This coming from a fan of a Pac-12 university, a conference that on its own website brags about being the "Conference of Champions". They've literally trademarked it!

https://pac-12.com/content/about-pac-12-conference

"History of the Pac-12
Built on a firm foundation of academic excellence and superior athletic performance, the Pac-12 Conference renewed its undisputed claim as the Conference of Champions in 2017-18."

The imaginary "conferences credited with national titles" idea. An idea that our friends in Bristol grasped firmly and ran with. Now it's everywhere because when TV pays these conferences, they must recognize the entire package rather than one unit. It's good for buisness...I think? That's sort of how I've seen it develop over the years.

National titles are awarded to individual teams. TV and fans have made it bigger than just the team. When your team sucks yet another team in your conference wins a Natty, some like beating their chest like they actually accomplished something, makes them feel warm and fuzzy.

Tip of the cap to independent teams (Notre Dame). They dont have this imaginary bonus of being in a conference for football.

You mentioned basketball, still applies to that sport too. Remove the independent part out of basketball and it's still the same.

Cheering for teams in your conference is one thing, I love the western BIG 10. Claiming national titles if someone else wins it is another thing. There is a big difference between the two.

(07-09-2020 01:20 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 12:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 11:45 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  In which way do you credit conferences for national championships?

In no way. Teams, not conferences, win championships.

Last season's football championship trophy, does it live in John Swofford's office? No, it's at Clemson. Why is that? Because Clemson's football team, not the conference, won the title. Are there t-shirts and hats that say "SEC 2019 Baseball National Champs"? No. But I'm sure there are shirts and hats that say something like "Vanderbilt 2019 Baseball National Champs".

This coming from a fan of a Pac-12 university, a conference that on its own website brags about being the "Conference of Champions". They've literally trademarked it!

https://pac-12.com/content/about-pac-12-conference

"History of the Pac-12
Built on a firm foundation of academic excellence and superior athletic performance, the Pac-12 Conference renewed its undisputed claim as the Conference of Champions in 2017-18."

The champions are teams and individual athletes who happen to compete in the conference. The slogan is not "The Conference Is The Champion".

(07-09-2020 11:45 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Specifically, I'm talking about basketball.

Should conferences be credited for (1) national championships won by schools who weren the league at that time, or (2) should they be credited for championships won by teams who are currently on their league?

Easy - it's always "the conference the school was in at the time the title was won".

So e.g., the ACC doesn't get credit today for Syracuse's 2003 title, the Big East does. The Big East does not get credit today for UConn's 2014 title, the AAC does, etc.

That's the only sensible way to do it.

I think a lot of people just use whichever version might win them the argument at the time. Then they might flip it for their next argument. It just depends on which “facts” they choose to use.

(07-09-2020 06:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 11:45 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Specifically, I'm talking about basketball.

Should conferences be credited for (1) national championships won by schools who weren the league at that time, or (2) should they be credited for championships won by teams who are currently on their league?

Easy - it's always "the conference the school was in at the time the title was won".

So e.g., the ACC doesn't get credit today for Syracuse's 2003 title, the Big East does. The Big East does not get credit today for UConn's 2014 title, the AAC does, etc.

That's the only sensible way to do it.

Amen.