I am watching Requiem Of the Big East on Youtube today and had this idea: Why couldn't American build something like the Old Big East?

We have a group of schools that are playing very well: Houston, Memphis, Cincy, Tulsa and Wichita State. American schools have one thing in common, we are (almost) all located in big markets.

Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
Orlando
Tampa
New Orleans
Philedelphia
Dallas

That was how the Old Big East was formed in the early 80s, big TV Markets and they all have something in common that they want to play Basketball at a higher level.

Many of our schools have a great pedigree in Basketball also.
Houston: Phi Slamma Jamma
Memphis: the old Memphis State
Temple: John Chaney era
And also Cincinnati

This past year, we could had 3 bids to the NCAA tournament. Is it our schedule that prevents us from having more at-large bids? But we are a pretty darn good Basketball Conference. Look at Big 10 which they had 7 or 8 at large bids. Is it all because of our Strength of Schedule in Non-Conference play?

But on a program level, I can personally see the rise of American Basketball because of the coaches we have in this league and that was how the Old Big East did in the 80s and 90s with their great charismatic coaches:
Kelvin Sampson
Gregg Marshall
Ron Hunter
Frank Haith
Johnny Dawkins
Brian Gregory
and more.

Should we expand Basketball-Only invites to VCU and Dayton? Dayton was simulated to win the NCAA tournament this year and they had the Player of the Year award in Obi Toppin. They are in Dayton, Ohio which is close to Cincinnati and could be a great rivalry with Cincy. VCU has a large national following also and they have great tradition in Men's Hoops.

My personal idea: I'd like to move Conference Championship game to New York City at the end of the year, which is a huge buzz for our fanbase which we can travel well.

I know Men's Basketball is not as revenue generated as Football. But as a Basketball fan myself and for the identity and pedigree of this conference, I want to see a top Basketball playing conference!

And why couldn't we?

(04-24-2020 02:02 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  I am watching Requiem Of the Big East on Youtube today and had this idea: Why couldn't American build something like the Old Big East?

We have a group of schools that are playing very well: Houston, Memphis, Cincy, Tulsa and Wichita State. American schools have one thing in common, we are (almost) all located in big markets.

Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
Orlando
Tampa
New Orleans
Philedelphia
Dallas

That was how the Old Big East was formed in the early 80s, big TV Markets and they all have something in common that they want to play Basketball at a higher level.

Many of our schools have a great pedigree in Basketball also.
Houston: Phi Slamma Jamma
Memphis: the old Memphis State
Temple: John Chaney era
And also Cincinnati

This past year, we could had 3 bids to the NCAA tournament. Is it our schedule that prevents us from having more at-large bids? But we are a pretty darn good Basketball Conference. Look at Big 10 which they had 7 or 8 at large bids. Is it all because of our Strength of Schedule in Non-Conference play?

But on a program level, I can personally see the rise of American Basketball because of the coaches we have in this league and that was how the Old Big East did in the 80s and 90s with their great charismatic coaches:
Kelvin Sampson
Gregg Marshall
Ron Hunter
Frank Haith
Johnny Dawkins
Brian Gregory
and more.

Should we expand Basketball-Only invites to VCU and Dayton? Dayton was simulated to win the NCAA tournament this year and they had the Player of the Year award in Obi Toppin. They are in Dayton, Ohio which is close to Cincinnati and could be a great rivalry with Cincy. VCU has a large national following also and they have great tradition in Men's Hoops.

My personal idea: I'd like to move Conference Championship game to New York City at the end of the year, which is a huge buzz for our fanbase which we can travel well.

I know Men's Basketball is not as revenue generated as Football. But as a Basketball fan myself and for the identity and pedigree of this conference, I want to see a top Basketball playing conference!

And why couldn't we?

Because UConn who won a National Championship in MB for the AAC left.

(04-24-2020 02:02 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  Should we expand Basketball-Only invites to VCU and Dayton? Dayton was simulated to win the NCAA tournament this year and they had the Player of the Year award in Obi Toppin. They are in Dayton, Ohio which is close to Cincinnati and could be a great rivalry with Cincy. VCU has a large national following also and they have great tradition in Men's Hoops.

My personal idea: I'd like to move Conference Championship game to New York City at the end of the year, which is a huge buzz for our fanbase which we can travel well.

I know Men's Basketball is not as revenue generated as Football. But as a Basketball fan myself and for the identity and pedigree of this conference, I want to see a top Basketball playing conference!

And why couldn't we?

im 100% for adding vcu..not sure how i feel about dayton (irt would have been a no before this year)..if they continue to build i could change my mind (dont make decisions of off 1 year of success)...

the new york city thing is bad, itd look like we were trying to copy the big east and it is only close to temple ..
we need to come up with our own traditions

(04-24-2020 02:14 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(04-24-2020 02:02 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  Should we expand Basketball-Only invites to VCU and Dayton? Dayton was simulated to win the NCAA tournament this year and they had the Player of the Year award in Obi Toppin. They are in Dayton, Ohio which is close to Cincinnati and could be a great rivalry with Cincy. VCU has a large national following also and they have great tradition in Men's Hoops.

My personal idea: I'd like to move Conference Championship game to New York City at the end of the year, which is a huge buzz for our fanbase which we can travel well.

I know Men's Basketball is not as revenue generated as Football. But as a Basketball fan myself and for the identity and pedigree of this conference, I want to see a top Basketball playing conference!

And why couldn't we?

im 100% for adding vcu..not sure how i feel about dayton (irt would have been a no before this year)..if they continue to build i could change my mind (dont make decisions of off 1 year of success)...

the new york city thing is bad, itd look like we were trying to copy the big east and it is only close to temple ..
we need to come up with our own traditions

Dayton has a great fanbase, similar success as VCU, and are not exactly in the same city as Cincy, so they sorta bring in a new market, although it’s very close. I wouldn’t mind bringing them in at all, although I do prefer a western expansion.

(04-24-2020 02:19 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  Dayton has a great fanbase, similar success as VCU, and are not exactly in the same city as Cincy, so they sorta bring in a new market, although it’s very close. I wouldn’t mind bringing them in at all, although I do prefer a western expansion.

Western Expansion in SDSU and UNLV?

SDSU have a new stadium sitting 30K and UNLV has the new Las Vegas Raiders in-door stadium.

Interesting idea even though I am not sold on UNLV's followings since not many people live in Las Vegas

(04-24-2020 02:22 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  

(04-24-2020 02:19 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  Dayton has a great fanbase, similar success as VCU, and are not exactly in the same city as Cincy, so they sorta bring in a new market, although it’s very close. I wouldn’t mind bringing them in at all, although I do prefer a western expansion.

Western Expansion in SDSU and UNLV?

SDSU have a new stadium sitting 30K and UNLV has the new Las Vegas Raiders in-door stadium.

Interesting idea even though I am not sold on UNLV's followings since not many people live in Las Vegas

No, western expansion as in BYU(football only), Boise State, SDSU, and possibly Gonzaga (Olympics). If one of them can’t come then replace them with CSU or AFA.

Because the driving force in this conference is football, not basketball. Aresco said up to about 80% of our revenue comes from football, iirc.

If we add a 12th school, it will absolutely be for football. Really, it's the same basic issue that split the last version of the Big East apart.

We could - we don't worry about that and the Requiem for the Big East told you why.

The best College Basketball Conference has a ceiling to it, and even Dave Gavitt couldn't save it. Once the BE hit it's ceiling he peace'd out because basketball CAN'T COMPETE WITH FOOTBALL. Even the documentary made that point.

So we concentrate on football - which we are making legitimate progress on - and it's so we can continue to compete as a conference in the long run.

C'mon, we could win 10 national championships in a row in men's basketball, all from a different school, and UCF would leave the AAC for the Big XII for the money and football and you know it. So it has to be football, and basketball is an afterthought.

As far as bringing in more basketball schools is concerned, I think it's a mistake that the BE made and we need to steer clear of. When realignment hits again, and it probably will, we will start to have hard questions about what kind of conference we want to be, and then it's the beginning of the end of the AAC. So I have no desire to go through another hybrid conference again, knowing it's only a matter of time before we start all over again.

There's no reason why the AAC can't maintain their major status despite losing UConn. However, if we were ever to become the best hoops league, even if just for a season, they were going to have to be a part of it. With them gone it'll be tough just to avoid falling further behind the top leagues.

(04-24-2020 02:54 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  We could - we don't worry about that and the Requiem for the Big East told you why.

The best College Basketball Conference has a ceiling to it, and even Dave Gavitt couldn't save it. Once the BE hit it's ceiling he peace'd out because basketball CAN'T COMPETE WITH FOOTBALL. Even the documentary made that point.

So we concentrate on football - which we are making legitimate progress on - and it's so we can continue to compete as a conference in the long run.

C'mon, we could win 10 national championships in a row in men's basketball, all from a different school, and UCF would leave the AAC for the Big XII for the money and football and you know it. So it has to be football, and basketball is an afterthought.

As far as bringing in more basketball schools is concerned, I think it's a mistake that the BE made and we need to steer clear of. When realignment hits again, and it probably will, we will start to have hard questions about what kind of conference we want to be, and then it's the beginning of the end of the AAC. So I have no desire to go through another hybrid conference again, knowing it's only a matter of time before we start all over again.

Football is 100% the most important sport, but that doesn’t mean adding a Dayton/VCU/Saint Louis type school is a bad idea paired with a football only add like Air Force or BYU. It’s possible to improve both football and basketball at the same time.

Too many directional schools.

(04-24-2020 02:54 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  We could - we don't worry about that and the Requiem for the Big East told you why.

The best College Basketball Conference has a ceiling to it, and even Dave Gavitt couldn't save it. Once the BE hit it's ceiling he peace'd out because basketball CAN'T COMPETE WITH FOOTBALL. Even the documentary made that point.

So we concentrate on football - which we are making legitimate progress on - and it's so we can continue to compete as a conference in the long run.

C'mon, we could win 10 national championships in a row in men's basketball, all from a different school, and UCF would leave the AAC for the Big XII for the money and football and you know it. So it has to be football, and basketball is an afterthought.

As far as bringing in more basketball schools is concerned, I think it's a mistake that the BE made and we need to steer clear of. When realignment hits again, and it probably will, we will start to have hard questions about what kind of conference we want to be, and then it's the beginning of the end of the AAC. So I have no desire to go through another hybrid conference again, knowing it's only a matter of time before we start all over again.

Football is the devil that destroyed old Big East. "Common Sense"

But I know ESPN has told us to add that 12th member for our conference and no one school (football) would bring us the value to do so unless it is BYU or Boise State. But both are happy by themselves. So in this case, let's go and get a Basketball school.

Just one or two basketball schools won't get more mouths for us to feed plus they can bring in the value and $$ to feed themselves

Ironically, despite the fact basketball has a more egalitarian system with an open tournament to select a champion; I think it is more difficult to recruit in hoops than it is in football. That non P5 label is a killer in hoops. Probably doesn't help when you have broadcasters on ESPN calling us mid-major.

(04-24-2020 03:18 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Ironically, despite the fact basketball has a more egalitarian system with an open tournament to select a champion; I think it is more difficult to recruit in hoops than it is in football. That non P5 label is a killer in hoops. Probably doesn't help when you have broadcasters on ESPN calling us mid-major.

Never seen an ESPN broadcast call us mid major. Disagree about recruiting as well. Wouldn't necessarily say it's easier to recruit hoops but its certainly not harder. I think your thoughts there may stem from Mick being a bad recruiter and Fickell being a good one.

(04-24-2020 03:03 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  Football is 100% the most important sport, but that doesn’t mean adding a Dayton/VCU/Saint Louis type school is a bad idea paired with a football only add like Air Force or BYU. It’s possible to improve both football and basketball at the same time.

I got that. We agree on that point.

But the issue is 10 years from now, and that's what the Commissioner/AD's are paid to worry about and something tells me they already are, including BSU, BYU, CSU, etc. The next round of replacement schools is going to set that stage.

Pretend it's now 2026. Let's say a football only and a basketball only school was added in 2022 to the conference. Any two. And now two of our current member schools have been plucked for the P5. Again, any two. So we are going to go looking for 11th and 12th members for the conference, again, and now
we
are
screwed.

Because at that point we have 12 members between football and basketball. Four of those members are either football or basketball only schools and we are probably spread out horrifically geographically speaking, with no real common purpose outside of finances and tv money. At that point we are the old BE - a hybrid conference with the clock ticking on the next time we split entirely as a conference again.

You think finding a 12th member is hard now? Try finding two members we can all agree on then. VCU, Navy, WSU, and, say BSU will all have completely different wants/needs. So what will happen?
They will compromise and they'll bring in four more football/basketball schools for two spots and everybody in the country will see it as is - a garbage conference with no real unity, mission, or history. We will have taken all of the momentum we've gotten and thrown it away.

So we need to bring in ONE new member for that 12th spot and football is far more important than basketball, so let it be a football school. If we want to become a successful basketball conference, fine, but do it by building programs and winning on the court, not by bringing in hired guns for short term gains.

Basketball could be successful in this conference but the recruiting needs to improve. The only way to improve recruiting is with chartered flights. Maybe the conference could charter flights?

(04-24-2020 04:14 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Basketball could be successful in this conference but the recruiting needs to improve. The only way to improve recruiting is with chartered flights. Maybe the conference could charter flights?

Don't most AAC schools charter flights?

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(04-24-2020 04:23 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  

(04-24-2020 04:14 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Basketball could be successful in this conference but the recruiting needs to improve. The only way to improve recruiting is with chartered flights. Maybe the conference could charter flights?

Don't most AAC schools charter flights?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

UCF Chartered flights but the service has been horrible

The reason why Big East basketball will always be "better" than the American is for a few reasons.

A) TV. They basically have their own TV network with Fox Sports, and you basically see tons of Big East games on there. Yes, the AAC have ESPN, but they're mainly on ESPNU and on Sunday's, not really the best time slots for college basketball games.
B) Coaches, I will say that the coaching staff in the Big East is pretty good. Not great, but better than the AAC.
C) They have won a National Championship
D) Luxury of having East Coast teams. Adding UCONN along with St. Johns, Providence, Villanova, Seton Hall, and Georgetown helps.
E) Their basketball programs have a better "brand." That's where Georgetown is thriving in.
F) Their conference isn't bad at producing some NBA players.

(04-24-2020 05:04 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  The reason why Big East basketball will always be "better" than the American is for a few reasons.

A) TV. They basically have their own TV network with Fox Sports, and you basically see tons of Big East games on there. Yes, the AAC have ESPN, but they're mainly on ESPNU and on Sunday's, not really the best time slots for college basketball games.
B) Coaches, I will say that the coaching staff in the Big East is pretty good. Not great, but better than the AAC.
C) They have won a National Championship
D) Luxury of having East Coast teams. Adding UCONN along with St. Johns, Providence, Villanova, Seton Hall, and Georgetown helps.
E) Their basketball programs have a better "brand." That's where Georgetown is thriving in.
F) Their conference isn't bad at producing some NBA players.

a) fs1 ratings are comparable to espn2 or espnu (depening on caliber of game)..if you want to add ecu and the likes to the mix we are mostly on espnu..but most of the good teams in our league half our games are mostly on espn, espn2

b) jay wright is the only touted coach they have....we have sampson and marshall...they have like 1 sweet 16 between the rest and it was in 2003 at a different school..
you could argue the year we had larry brown, sampson, cronin, tubby smith, and fran dunphy our leagues coaching pedigree was drastically higher than theres

c) we technically still have one till uconn leaves in july..also this wont "always" be true (in repsonse to your main point)

d) this is con for them, not a positive, they are centered in 1 small geograhical area, that is amazing for budget and travel ..but it hurts perception wise..we are in major media markets all around the east coast

E&F) changes over time...once upon a time ucla and houston wre the 2 biggest brands in the sport (elvin hayes era)

there is one difference between them and us in my opinion...villanova had sucess in the tourney..and our bell cows (cincy/smu/uconn) didnt..the perception of both our leagues were similar when the split happened
with that said if houston or memphis won a title, all our recruiting and our perception would change