https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

A lot of really sobering stuff here. Among the bigger points:

* CUSA will give members about $1 million less than years past
* "Conference membership decisions need to be made” to reduce expenses and missed class time while generating more fan interest
* “All schools must be prepared for partial or total interruption of the 2020 football season.”
* Losing the NCAA tournament resulted in a loss of $867 million

I presume the study was commissioned before the coronavirus pandemic so good timing, I guess? Wonder if other athletic departments are having similar moments of reckoning right now.

The members institutions in CUSA, SBC and maybe the MAC need to put egos aside and do some geographic realignment.

No. ODU still has the largest budget in C-USA, and other members sponsor more sports. ODU only sponsors 11 total sports in C-USA. They should be able to handle the finances for that size line up.

Unless I missed it this article did not give any reason CUSA was costing ODU 2 million dollars a year. They touched on travel but no details.

The below is what I find interesting

Quote:The study compares ODU’s basketball programs to those at Wichita State, San Diego State and Memphis and recommends continuing to invest in them. The men’s program has an annual expense of $3.348 million, and the women’s program has an annual expense of $2.275 million.

I'm not going to look the figures up other than this...

"Aug 23, 2018 - Jones will get a modest raise in the new deal, which is heavily performance-based. He'll make $506,974 this season, roughly $50,000 more than his previous contract. He will be among the three highest-paid coaches in Conference USA, according to athletic director Wood Selig"

So (Volkmar )with that how is ODU spending over a million dollars a year on basketball than Western and Western is paying Stansbury about $100,000 more than Jeff Jones?

2019-20 Western BB budget $2,264,058

ODU is spending around 800k more on lady's basketball than Western, 2019-20 $1,481,877

One other thing...revenue. If you look at the below you will notice huge jumps in money made off tickets sold and donations. You will also see they started 2 years before ODU played football in CUSA. But that money was a direct result of moving up to FBS and joining CUSA.

Donations has grown every year and money off ticket sold had a couple up and downs but still way ahead of before announcing the move to FBS.

How is ODU losing 2 million a year by playing in CUSA? If its true (I doubt it) it's internal money...expense that has went up no matter where ODU was playing. Why is it costing ODU so much more than say Western, when Western pays head coaches more than ODU? Travel might eat up some but not much. As I said ...internal money and just a different way of doing the books. Most of us are paying close to the same on coaching, travel, recruiting, meals, housing...everything that it takes to compete on the field or court.

We all are losing money compared to when we first joined and getting paid from a contract already in place. That's not changing for any of us. But other than that...bullshiit

Below is a apple to apple comparison of ODU and JMU and going by that and the difference in the amount of money ODU is making off tickets and donation in CUSA. There's no way anyone should be able to come to the conclusion ODU is losing money by playing in CUSA.

Football, basketball, woman's basketball ODU is bring in almost 5 million more than JMU. While only spending around 300k more than JMU on the 3 programs

(04-03-2020 10:17 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  No. ODU still has the largest budget in C-USA, and other members sponsor more sports. ODU only sponsors 11 total sports in C-USA. They should be able to handle the finances for that size line up.

ODU offers other sports that CUSA does not have such as women's lacrosse and field hockey and rowing. They also have coed sailing. And lastly the recently lamented wrestling program.

I mentioned this in another post that the virus may trigger conferences (in particular G-5) to reconsider realigning based on geographical area. The primary reason may be the NCAA will be giving some latitude to newly formed conferences due to many programs facing financial difficulties. I think many schools are recognizing that travel cost, large size conferences, and school identity by fans are things they can control to either save money or increase fan excitement.

(04-03-2020 11:40 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Below is a apple to apple comparison of ODU and JMU and going by that and the difference in the amount of money ODU is making off tickets and donation in CUSA. There's no way anyone should be able to come to the conclusion ODU is losing money by playing in CUSA.

Football, basketball, woman's basketball ODU is bring in almost 5 million more than JMU. While only spending around 300k more than JMU on the 3 programs

this paints a different picture, than what the report is doing. i not sure why c-usa is getting mentioned for the losses to ODU. i guess it will always go back to the old t.v. vs the current deal. whats seems to be conveyed, is the leadership at ODU is not happy in c-usa.

(04-03-2020 10:07 PM)topper1296 Wrote:  The members institutions in CUSA, SBC and maybe the MAC need to put egos aside and do some geographic realignment.

possibly, but if this thing strings out into football season, a realignment may happen, but not one based on geographic realignment. things could get ugly fast.

(04-03-2020 11:43 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:17 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  No. ODU still has the largest budget in C-USA, and other members sponsor more sports. ODU only sponsors 11 total sports in C-USA. They should be able to handle the finances for that size line up.

ODU offers other sports that CUSA does not have such as women's lacrosse and field hockey and rowing. They also have coed sailing. And lastly the recently lamented wrestling program.

.....LOL! You must have missed it. SideShow was talking about ODU sponsoring SPORTS.....you know, REAL sports.

(04-04-2020 09:53 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 11:40 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Below is a apple to apple comparison of ODU and JMU and going by that and the difference in the amount of money ODU is making off tickets and donation in CUSA. There's no way anyone should be able to come to the conclusion ODU is losing money by playing in CUSA.

Football, basketball, woman's basketball ODU is bring in almost 5 million more than JMU. While only spending around 300k more than JMU on the 3 programs

this paints a different picture, than what the report is doing. i not sure why c-usa is getting mentioned for the losses to ODU. i guess it will always go back to the old t.v. vs the current deal. whats seems to be conveyed, is the leadership at ODU is not happy in c-usa.

I tend to agree. Sure the tv money rug went out from many people but this seems like a signal. Maybe that's a tinfoil take but we're all bored and I know we asked jmu to come with us to cusa. Maybe the covid situation really is the trigger needed for the new regional g5 conference(s) we keep talking about.

(04-03-2020 11:43 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:17 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  No. ODU still has the largest budget in C-USA, and other members sponsor more sports. ODU only sponsors 11 total sports in C-USA. They should be able to handle the finances for that size line up.

ODU offers other sports that CUSA does not have such as women's lacrosse and field hockey and rowing. They also have coed sailing. And lastly the recently lamented wrestling program.

If ODU wants to sponsor sports outside of C-USA, that is their business. But, as long as they do, I think it is in bad form for them or their surrogates, to blame C-USA for stains on their budget. Their financial strain seems to be a result of their choice to offer more sports than they can support.

It appears that ODU has hired a consultant to deliver a certain economic outcome in his/her final report, facts be dammed. That's no surprise. ODU fans have been whining about wanting to bus to games, complaining about basketball tournament locations, etc....and now THIS. Basically, they are just a miserable bunch. And I don't intend that to be a criticism....maybe they just don't fit in CUSA. Maybe ODU should just move on. We've got too many schools in this league anyway.

(04-04-2020 09:41 AM)Herd6993 Wrote:  I mentioned this in another post that the virus may trigger conferences (in particular G-5) to reconsider realigning based on geographical area. The primary reason may be the NCAA will be giving some latitude to newly formed conferences due to many programs facing financial difficulties. I think many schools are recognizing that travel cost, large size conferences, and school identity by fans are things they can control to either save money or increase fan excitement.

Whatever. The P5's think there are too many schools in the FBS already. If anything, the NCAA will create an incentive for struggling FBS programs to drop down to the FCS, or find a way to justify pushing them down into the FCS.

(04-03-2020 10:42 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Unless I missed it this article did not give any reason CUSA was costing ODU 2 million dollars a year. They touched on travel but no details.

The below is what I find interesting

Quote:The study compares ODU’s basketball programs to those at Wichita State, San Diego State and Memphis and recommends continuing to invest in them. The men’s program has an annual expense of $3.348 million, and the women’s program has an annual expense of $2.275 million.

I'm not going to look the figures up other than this...

"Aug 23, 2018 - Jones will get a modest raise in the new deal, which is heavily performance-based. He'll make $506,974 this season, roughly $50,000 more than his previous contract. He will be among the three highest-paid coaches in Conference USA, according to athletic director Wood Selig"

So (Volkmar )with that how is ODU spending over a million dollars a year on basketball than Western and Western is paying Stansbury about $100,000 more than Jeff Jones?

2019-20 Western BB budget $2,264,058

ODU is spending around 800k more on lady's basketball than Western, 2019-20 $1,481,877

One other thing...revenue. If you look at the below you will notice huge jumps in money made off tickets sold and donations. You will also see they started 2 years before ODU played football in CUSA. But that money was a direct result of moving up to FBS and joining CUSA.

Donations has grown every year and money off ticket sold had a couple up and downs but still way ahead of before announcing the move to FBS.

How is ODU losing 2 million a year by playing in CUSA? If its true (I doubt it) it's internal money...expense that has went up no matter where ODU was playing. Why is it costing ODU so much more than say Western, when Western pays head coaches more than ODU? Travel might eat up some but not much. As I said ...internal money and just a different way of doing the books. Most of us are paying close to the same on coaching, travel, recruiting, meals, housing...everything that it takes to compete on the field or court.

We all are losing money compared to when we first joined and getting paid from a contract already in place. That's not changing for any of us. But other than that...bullshiit

Travel expenses last year in CAA - $2.2 Million
Most recent reported travel expenses - $3.9 Million
1.7M swing


http://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/OldD...AA2019.pdf

http://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/ODU_NCAA-2013.pdf

Some of this is probably due to rising costs in travel over 6 years and not just distance but there's certainly longer travel more days spent in hotels and meals, etc. Travel probably makes up a large portion of the $2M reported, the rest might be less revenue from ticket sales from lack of fan interest.

And comparing ODU & JMU's athletic budgets aren't apples to apples. We can get into that discussion but it's not really relevant as it has more to do with JMU's accounting.

And I seem to remember some articles concerning WKU's athletic financial woes as well. You don't think playing in CUSA and trips to SA and El Paso has put a crunch on your budgets?

The travel expenses doesn't hold water to me. Of course it costs more so that was a known expense. And it's been quoted as us being prepared and could handle it. The TV money drying up hurts but it wasn't a death knell.

I see this as more of a signal of realignment desires or some deep pockets wanting to invest more in the core sports and can't do that without more resources. I went to Great Bridge and know how important wrestling is/was but outside of our tiny area it wasn't a blip on the radar like it is in some other regions. I think this is just the beginning of more belt tightening and going towards the minimum so more resources can be applied to the core sports. But I don't agree with blaming cusa in general. I think you need to be more specific and targeted in that regard. Blame cusa leadership for the craptastic tv deal. What else is cusa brass doing to promote the league? Aresco is a genius compared to what I see coming out of the league's leadership. But I am also not too up on what I should expect from the league like cusa? Shrug. I'm rambling now so I'll shuttup.

(04-04-2020 10:36 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  It appears that ODU has hired a consultant to deliver a certain economic outcome in his/her final report, facts be dammed. That's no surprise. ODU fans have been whining about wanting to bus to games, complaining about basketball tournament locations, etc....and now THIS. Basically, they are just a miserable bunch. And I don't intend that to be a criticism....maybe they just don't fit in CUSA. Maybe ODU should just move on. We've got too many schools in this league anyway.

I like ODU, but I get tired of their annual off-season article complaining about conferencing in C-USA. ODU needs to decide if they really want to be in this conference. If there is some other conference that wants them, they are free to go. But, if there is no place for them to land, they need to start pulling in the same direction as the rest of us, because this continuing resentment of being in C-USA only further lessen our conference, and devalues what the rest of us are trying to build.

Losing $2 million being in CUSA as compared to …………………..? Which conference(s)? If this is true then yes, by all means, ODU needs to change leagues sooner, rather than later. CUSA doesn't need any one of its current members. I mean, it will survive any single school departure. YES, that includes Louisiana Tech too! Of course it does. But, if such affiliation is so damaging to ODU and they have a better place to go, it would be foolhardy not to.

(04-04-2020 10:30 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 11:43 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:17 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  No. ODU still has the largest budget in C-USA, and other members sponsor more sports. ODU only sponsors 11 total sports in C-USA. They should be able to handle the finances for that size line up.

ODU offers other sports that CUSA does not have such as women's lacrosse and field hockey and rowing. They also have coed sailing. And lastly the recently lamented wrestling program.

If ODU wants to sponsor sports outside of C-USA, that is their business. But, as long as they do, I think it is in bad form for them or their surrogates, to blame C-USA for stains on their budget. Their financial strain seems to be a result of their choice to offer more sports than they can support.

So your argument went from we should have plenty of money to compete in the sports we sponsor to we're sponsoring too many sports? We ain't taking **** from any school that doesn't sponsor baseball about what sports to sponsor. We get it Joe. You're happy with CUSA. I would be too if I were you. the conference HQ's, basketball tournament and until recently our best bowl tie in are all in your backyard. You have 3 schools closer than our closest rival and all of the western teams and two of the eastern teams are closer to you than all but two schools to ODU. Plus you get exposure in the eastern time zone where nearly half the US population lives. What do we get from it? A foothold into FBS football but we're busy finding a solution out. Don't take it personal.

(04-04-2020 11:10 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 10:30 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 11:43 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:17 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  No. ODU still has the largest budget in C-USA, and other members sponsor more sports. ODU only sponsors 11 total sports in C-USA. They should be able to handle the finances for that size line up.

ODU offers other sports that CUSA does not have such as women's lacrosse and field hockey and rowing. They also have coed sailing. And lastly the recently lamented wrestling program.

If ODU wants to sponsor sports outside of C-USA, that is their business. But, as long as they do, I think it is in bad form for them or their surrogates, to blame C-USA for stains on their budget. Their financial strain seems to be a result of their choice to offer more sports than they can support.

So your argument went from we should have plenty of money to compete in the sports we sponsor to we're sponsoring too many sports? We ain't taking **** from any school that doesn't sponsor baseball about what sports to sponsor. We get it Joe. You're happy with CUSA. I would be too if I were you. the conference HQ's, basketball tournament and until recently our best bowl tie in are all in your backyard. You have 3 schools closer than our closest rival and all of the western teams and two of the eastern teams are closer to you than all but two schools to ODU. Plus you get exposure in the eastern time zone where nearly half the US population lives. What do we get from it? A foothold into FBS football but we're busy finding a solution out. Don't take it personal.

My argument is consistent. ODU still has the largest budget an should be able to handle their line up. If they can't, that is on ODU, and their choice to sponsor sports outside of C-USA. It is not a result of conferencing in C-USA. You can whine about baseball if you choose, but the fact remains... North Texas sponsors 16 sporting in C-USA, while ODU sponsors 11. I don't take it personal. Like I stated, if ODU needs to move on, they can. The Sun Belt might take you. Or, ODU could try to make it as an independent. New Mexico State is surviving.