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(12-10-2019 06:31 AM)Lush Wrote:  it's beyond obvious laquill was pushed out to make room for harvey. jb didn't have a choice

Why would you force out Laquill for Harvey instead of say an identical but worse player like Trevor Moore? That just doesn't make any sense. We were already loaded at the 2/3 wing spot with Jarron and Jaevin and it was pretty clear there wouldn't be many minutes at that spot and a ton at the 4/5 spot especially because we didn't think at the time that Vogt would be eligible.

(12-10-2019 09:49 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 09:45 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  2017: Keith Williams, Mamoudou Diarra, Trevor Moore, Eliel Nsoseme

2018: Logan Johnson, LaQuill Hardnett, Reshawn Fredericks, Prince Gilliam

Gee, I wonder why our roster is looking to be an issue next season. There's one main culprit for that, and he's sitting in his office in Westwood at the moment.

Cronin was an absolute unmitigated trainwreck on the recruiting trail his last two years. Keith Williams is a star, but he is literally the only usable player on the roster out of 2 key classes that used up 8 scholarships.

Real convenient for Mick to leave and use his excuse that he couldn't recruit to UC on his way out the door.

That's really bad. Williams was a really solid recruit. He's been our best player this year. I think Logan had potential, but who knows if it would have been realized. Hard to judge Prince.

Judging by the start to the season for Logan, and most of the other guys who transferred...the future was not extremely bright for Cronin at UC.

(12-10-2019 09:45 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  2017: Keith Williams, Mamoudou Diarra, Trevor Moore, Eliel Nsoseme

2018: Logan Johnson, LaQuill Hardnett, Reshawn Fredericks, Prince Gilliam

Gee, I wonder why our roster is looking to be an issue next season. There's one main culprit for that, and he's sitting in his office in Westwood at the moment.

Cronin was an absolute unmitigated trainwreck on the recruiting trail his last two years. Keith Williams is a star, but he is literally the only usable player on the roster out of 2 key classes that used up 8 scholarships.

Real convenient for Mick to leave and use his excuse that he couldn't recruit to UC on his way out the door.

Unless he went through years of massive turnover (5+ open scholarships), which were rare, Mick had a habit of signing one top 150/200 player (Keith, Lojo) and a bunch of projects to fill out the class. That added talent at the top of the roster, whose minutes were used by those more highly regarded recruits, but the problem is depth suffered because he loaded the roster with so many damn projects, players that needed 2-3 years minimum to develop.

Now, Mick had done an excellent job of developing certain players at UC but when you grab guys that barely played basketball before joining Cincinnati or only have 1-2 solid tools in their repertoire, their ceiling is only so high.

I think the aging Fifth Third Arena certainly worked against him on the recruiting trail and it's really anyone's guess as to how he could have recruited at Cincinnati with a couple of years of showcasing the new venue to recruits. But with where the 2019 and 2020 classes were going, it didn't seem particularly promising.

(12-10-2019 09:54 AM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 06:31 AM)Lush Wrote:  it's beyond obvious laquill was pushed out to make room for harvey. jb didn't have a choice

Why would you force out Laquill for Harvey instead of say an identical but worse player like Trevor Moore? That just doesn't make any sense. We were already loaded at the 2/3 wing spot with Jarron and Jaevin and it was pretty clear there wouldn't be many minutes at that spot and a ton at the 4/5 spot especially because we didn't think at the time that Vogt would be eligible.

i hear ya. was puzzled ma'self

(12-10-2019 10:03 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  I think the aging Fifth Third Arena certainly worked against him on the recruiting trail and it's really anyone's guess as to how he could have recruited at Cincinnati with a couple of years of showcasing the new venue to recruits. But with where the 2019 and 2020 classes were going, it didn't seem particularly promising.

I think Mick got set in his ways and wasn't going to change. Remember early in his career he had the Cash-Yancy class and never had two highly rated HS guys like that in the same class. I think he got a little gunshy; remember we were always ending up runner ups for guys like Kemb, Thabeet, Trey Burke, etc. He made a decision that he wasn't going to fight for those guys anymore and was going for lightly recruited guys who he could mold into his system.

That decision may have been the right one at the time as we had really poor facilities and were rebuilding our national reputation but when we got the facilities renovation locked down and were making the tournament every year he needed to get back into the highly rated recruit market which he showed no willingness to do.

(12-10-2019 06:31 AM)Lush Wrote:  it's beyond obvious laquill was pushed out to make room for harvey. jb didn't have a choice

Yup. With respect to Laquill and Trevor, Mick should have never offered them scholarships to play at this level. They were low 2/3 star recruits with Mac level offers at best. It does more harm to a kid letting him sit on the bench for 3 years than being honest.

(12-09-2019 11:43 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 10:49 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 10:17 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  That’s what happened.

Want me to spruce it up to make you feel better?

Remember when you posted all things were sunshine and rainbows? Good times. Then you took a sabbatical like a spoiled diva. Now all you do is piss on everything. It gets old dude.

There were more than “just a couple” of posters who quit visiting/posting after having to read about the Nevada game over and over every single day. The “loudest” were not amongst those who were in the know.

You would be well advised to “listen” to Rath because he is far more plugged in than most realize. Same with Rag. Same with.....

Lol, these boards are loaded with diehard UC fans that have made their own connections to the athletic department as well. This ain't a big city.

(12-10-2019 09:49 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 09:45 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  2017: Keith Williams, Mamoudou Diarra, Trevor Moore, Eliel Nsoseme

2018: Logan Johnson, LaQuill Hardnett, Reshawn Fredericks, Prince Gilliam

Gee, I wonder why our roster is looking to be an issue next season. There's one main culprit for that, and he's sitting in his office in Westwood at the moment.

Cronin was an absolute unmitigated trainwreck on the recruiting trail his last two years. Keith Williams is a star, but he is literally the only usable player on the roster out of 2 key classes that used up 8 scholarships.

Real convenient for Mick to leave and use his excuse that he couldn't recruit to UC on his way out the door.

That's really bad. Williams was a really solid recruit. He's been our best player this year. I think Logan had potential, but who knows if it would have been realized. Hard to judge Prince.

Cronin's recruiting was bad his last few years. He had papered over it a little by getting Broome to transfer in for that 2017 class.

But, in any case, he left one of the top dozen players in America for this year's team. And Brannen did a very nice job in the offseason. I don't think talent is a problem with this team.

(12-10-2019 10:56 AM)levydl Wrote:  Cronin's recruiting was bad his last few years. He had papered over it a little by getting Broome to transfer in for that 2017 class.

But, in any case, he left one of the top dozen players in America for this year's team. And Brannen did a very nice job in the offseason. I don't think talent is a problem with this team.

Talent is a problem, but this team has the talent to be a tournament team, maybe even a second weekend team. The biggest problem is your All American is playing terrible basketball when he's not sitting due to injury.

Your theory on that is that it's Brannen's fault. I think it's lack of practice, adjusting to new system and new influx of players playing while not getting that practice and battling multiple injuries, and the injuries themselves affecting his play. But the bottom line is if this team's All American type player is a liability, they are at best a bubble team and more likely an NIT type team.

(12-10-2019 11:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 10:56 AM)levydl Wrote:  Cronin's recruiting was bad his last few years. He had papered over it a little by getting Broome to transfer in for that 2017 class.

But, in any case, he left one of the top dozen players in America for this year's team. And Brannen did a very nice job in the offseason. I don't think talent is a problem with this team.

Talent is a problem, but this team has the talent to be a tournament team, maybe even a second weekend team. The biggest problem is your All American is playing terrible basketball when he's not sitting due to injury.

Your theory on that is that it's Brannen's fault. I think it's lack of practice, adjusting to new system and new influx of players playing while not getting that practice and battling multiple injuries, and the injuries themselves affecting his play. But the bottom line is if this team's All American type player is a liability, they are at best a bubble team and more likely an NIT type team.

Talent is a problem and also this team has the talent to maybe be a second weekend team. Got it.

I don't think Cumberland's poor play is all Brannen's fault. But you seem to think he deserves none of the blame. I don't think that's right either. You wave away all indications that there is an issue between the two of them.

Cumberland is hurt and grumpy...probably because he thought he was NBA ready last year. He's sitting around pouting because the previous coach used him as almost the sole source of offense and developed little else in terms of offensive strategy or IQ.

If he doesn't want to play...bench his a$$ or tell him to jump into the portal.

BTW....shouldn't we be looking at the portal to see what's out there? Got to be someone else who can shoot willing to take a look here.

(12-10-2019 07:35 AM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  I miss Brooks. It would have been interesting to watch him and Vogt on the floor at the same time; would have complimented each other well.

on the floor at the same time or on the same team? No way they would be on the floor at the same time

(12-10-2019 11:29 AM)levydl Wrote:  I don't think Cumberland's poor play is all Brannen's fault. But you seem to think he deserves none of the blame. I don't think that's right either. You wave away all indications that there is an issue between the two of them.

Not sure what part Brannen plays in his poor shot selection, missed shots from every where on the court, turnovers, being out of shape, etc.

(12-10-2019 12:09 PM)coachpipe Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 07:35 AM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  I miss Brooks. It would have been interesting to watch him and Vogt on the floor at the same time; would have complimented each other well.

on the floor at the same time or on the same team? No way they would be on the floor at the same time

On the floor at the same time. Why not? Play two of a 3 man rotation of Scott/Brooks/Vogt.

(12-10-2019 10:17 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 10:03 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  I think the aging Fifth Third Arena certainly worked against him on the recruiting trail and it's really anyone's guess as to how he could have recruited at Cincinnati with a couple of years of showcasing the new venue to recruits. But with where the 2019 and 2020 classes were going, it didn't seem particularly promising.

I think Mick got set in his ways and wasn't going to change. Remember early in his career he had the Cash-Yancy class and never had two highly rated HS guys like that in the same class. I think he got a little gunshy; remember we were always ending up runner ups for guys like Kemb, Thabeet, Trey Burke, etc. He made a decision that he wasn't going to fight for those guys anymore and was going for lightly recruited guys who he could mold into his system.

That decision may have been the right one at the time as we had really poor facilities and were rebuilding our national reputation but when we got the facilities renovation locked down and were making the tournament every year he needed to get back into the highly rated recruit market which he showed no willingness to do.

I definitely agree with that evaluation. I'd even add to your list Jaxson Hayes; to this day I never understood why he didn't get a UC offer or at least some visits from the staff.

Say what you will about Brannen's results on the trail thus far but I appreciate the way they handle recruiting; they understand the value of "Cincinnati" as a historically successful brand and they use that mindset when going after recruits. They didn't land Traynor, for a multitude of reasons, but time after time it was reported that UC sent their whole staff to visit him. It's a shame he ultimately committed to Louisville but you can't fault Brannen and co. for going all-in on the #1 player in Kentucky.

(12-10-2019 12:13 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 12:09 PM)coachpipe Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 07:35 AM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  I miss Brooks. It would have been interesting to watch him and Vogt on the floor at the same time; would have complimented each other well.

on the floor at the same time or on the same team? No way they would be on the floor at the same time

On the floor at the same time. Why not? Play two of a 3 man rotation of Scott/Brooks/Vogt.

Ill pass on wanting to see that. Brooks would have to play the 4 in that situation and that would be an absolute disaster on both ends of the floor

(12-10-2019 12:26 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 10:17 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 10:03 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  I think the aging Fifth Third Arena certainly worked against him on the recruiting trail and it's really anyone's guess as to how he could have recruited at Cincinnati with a couple of years of showcasing the new venue to recruits. But with where the 2019 and 2020 classes were going, it didn't seem particularly promising.

I think Mick got set in his ways and wasn't going to change. Remember early in his career he had the Cash-Yancy class and never had two highly rated HS guys like that in the same class. I think he got a little gunshy; remember we were always ending up runner ups for guys like Kemb, Thabeet, Trey Burke, etc. He made a decision that he wasn't going to fight for those guys anymore and was going for lightly recruited guys who he could mold into his system.

That decision may have been the right one at the time as we had really poor facilities and were rebuilding our national reputation but when we got the facilities renovation locked down and were making the tournament every year he needed to get back into the highly rated recruit market which he showed no willingness to do.

I definitely agree with that evaluation. I'd even add to your list Jaxson Hayes; to this day I never understood why he didn't get a UC offer or at least some visits from the staff.

Say what you will about Brannen's results on the trail thus far but I appreciate the way they handle recruiting; they understand the value of "Cincinnati" as a historically successful brand and they use that mindset when going after recruits. They didn't land Traynor, for a multitude of reasons, but time after time it was reported that UC sent their whole staff to visit him. It's a shame he ultimately committed to Louisville but you can't fault Brannen and co. for going all-in on the #1 player in Kentucky.

Mick was prohibited from recruiting anyone sponsored by a list of companies (mostly shoe companies) or anyone convicted of a crime. That restriction came from Bohn. Mick got tired of being held back by Bohn and moved on.

At the same time, Bohn already had feelers out and wanted to leave. That’s why he let Coach B recruit and sign Harvey.

You can blame and hate Mick all you want, but he wasn’t the problem with recruiting.

I suspect that I will become very unpopular because I am not following the party line. Group think somehow becomes an end unto itself.

(12-10-2019 12:10 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 11:29 AM)levydl Wrote:  I don't think Cumberland's poor play is all Brannen's fault. But you seem to think he deserves none of the blame. I don't think that's right either. You wave away all indications that there is an issue between the two of them.

Not sure what part Brannen plays in his poor shot selection, missed shots from every where on the court, turnovers, being out of shape, etc.

I don't really think he's "played" poorly. His defense has been solid, and honestly the shots he's taking are no different than what he has taken in the past so i would characterize "poor shot selection" in the context of his historic choices which are pretty much the same. Difference is they just aren't dropping from anywhere near as well as in the past. At this point, if he's reasonably healthy after a week of no games i guess he takes his chances and keeps playing and you hope he gets his shot back with more reps. I'm not sure moving the 3 point line impacts him as much as some others as he often shot well beyond the line. The recent hip injury is definitely a set back. An injury like that is painful and i can see where it would definitely impact your stroke.

(12-10-2019 12:54 PM)dsquare Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 12:10 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 11:29 AM)levydl Wrote:  I don't think Cumberland's poor play is all Brannen's fault. But you seem to think he deserves none of the blame. I don't think that's right either. You wave away all indications that there is an issue between the two of them.

Not sure what part Brannen plays in his poor shot selection, missed shots from every where on the court, turnovers, being out of shape, etc.

I don't really think he's "played" poorly. His defense has been solid, and honestly the shots he's taking are no different than what he has taken in the past so i would characterize "poor shot selection" in the context of his historic choices which are pretty much the same. Difference is they just aren't dropping from anywhere near as well as in the past. At this point, if he's reasonably healthy after a week of no games i guess he takes his chances and keeps playing and you hope he gets his shot back with more reps. I'm not sure moving the 3 point line impacts him as much as some others as he often shot well beyond the line. The recent hip injury is definitely a set back. An injury like that is painful and i can see where it would definitely impact your stroke.

Dude, he's shooting a 35/26/65 slash while averaging 3 TOs per game...he's playing poorly

(12-10-2019 12:53 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 12:26 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 10:17 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 10:03 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  I think the aging Fifth Third Arena certainly worked against him on the recruiting trail and it's really anyone's guess as to how he could have recruited at Cincinnati with a couple of years of showcasing the new venue to recruits. But with where the 2019 and 2020 classes were going, it didn't seem particularly promising.

I think Mick got set in his ways and wasn't going to change. Remember early in his career he had the Cash-Yancy class and never had two highly rated HS guys like that in the same class. I think he got a little gunshy; remember we were always ending up runner ups for guys like Kemb, Thabeet, Trey Burke, etc. He made a decision that he wasn't going to fight for those guys anymore and was going for lightly recruited guys who he could mold into his system.

That decision may have been the right one at the time as we had really poor facilities and were rebuilding our national reputation but when we got the facilities renovation locked down and were making the tournament every year he needed to get back into the highly rated recruit market which he showed no willingness to do.

I definitely agree with that evaluation. I'd even add to your list Jaxson Hayes; to this day I never understood why he didn't get a UC offer or at least some visits from the staff.

Say what you will about Brannen's results on the trail thus far but I appreciate the way they handle recruiting; they understand the value of "Cincinnati" as a historically successful brand and they use that mindset when going after recruits. They didn't land Traynor, for a multitude of reasons, but time after time it was reported that UC sent their whole staff to visit him. It's a shame he ultimately committed to Louisville but you can't fault Brannen and co. for going all-in on the #1 player in Kentucky.

Mick was prohibited from recruiting anyone sponsored by a list of companies (mostly shoe companies) or anyone convicted of a crime. That restriction came from Bohn. Mick got tired of being held back by Bohn and moved on.

At the same time, Bohn already had feelers out and wanted to leave. That’s why he let Coach B recruit and sign Harvey.

You can blame and hate Mick all you want, but he wasn’t the problem with recruiting.

I suspect that I will become very unpopular because I am not following the party line. Group think somehow becomes an end unto itself.

Wow. No way you can run a Top 25 program under that kind of handicap. Basketball recruiting is inherently corrupt. The key is to get as close to the line as you can without crossing it. Being holier than thou gets you a handshake and a pink slip.