(10-25-2019 03:46 PM)ultraviolet Wrote: Who does he mean by this, "And though we didn’t mortgage dorm contracts and misappropriate money like the team up the street" ?
No clue about the dorm contracts. The UCF forum also seemed perplexed by that comment.
The misappropriated money was the issue where UCF took a ton of leftover unused operating funds and used it to replace a decaying building with a brand new one. The state legislature didn’t like that we did our own thing - using our own money - without asking them first so they threw a fit and it led to a faux scandal that caused our new president to resign. It was then discovered that other schools, including usf and Florida, did the exact same thing.
Now, there’s a new law making what we did perfectly legal which sucks for our former president and all the other admins that were casualties of the event. Of course, this doesn’t stop our rivals from taking shots at UCF for doing something they were also caught doing, that shouldn’t have been wrong to do to begin with.
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Yep. It's an arms races for the last boat off of the G5 island. UConn couldn't keep up. USF is falling behind. The way I see it, only Cincinnati, Houston, UCF and maybe Memphis have any real shot.
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FWIW, I don't think there is getting off of the G5 island. There's no longer an obvious incentive for those conferences to expand. This is the new normal.
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UCONN got off the island, and the way I see it we may have gotten one of the last lifeboats. Let's see how things shake out in the next five years, this was one of the best moves the school has made in years.
(10-25-2019 08:27 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: The arms race for athletic infrastructure is getting almost as silly as taxing students per hour enrolled just to keep the lights on at those new facilities that schools could not afford but used the credit card anyways.
If you want to criticize the athletic facilities arms race, I suggest you target your ire toward programs like Alabama, Texas, Oregon, LSU, etc.
AAC teams are not spending money on the ridiculous, over the top items those types of programs do. The facilities AAC teams build are largely bare bones and deliver far more for each dollar spent.
Houston is spending INSANE money. Look at their subsidies and fees.
(10-25-2019 10:51 AM)firmbizzle Wrote: Yep. It's an arms races for the last boat off of the G5 island. UConn couldn't keep up. USF is falling behind. The way I see it, only Cincinnati, Houston, UCF and maybe Memphis have any real shot.
FWIW, I don't think there is getting off of the G5 island. There's no longer an obvious incentive for those conferences to expand. This is the new normal.
USFFan
UCONN got off the island, and the way I see it we may have gotten one of the last lifeboats. Let's see how things shake out in the next five years, this was one of the best moves the school has made in years.
First off, kudos on your excellent editing and HTML skills. Maybe you can take your imaginary lifeboat to "HTML for Dummies" island and learn how to do something most elementary schoolers can do on their own. I fixed it for you (it took 30 seconds) - you're welcome.
But, to your point, I guess you're right, suicide is in fact another way off the island. Congratulations on self-immolating your football program so you can host DePaul, Xavier, Creighton and Butler every year in a sport worth 1/10 that of football.
(10-25-2019 08:33 AM)usffan Wrote: Ouch. Much of what Collin writes there is true, though as Mestophalies points out, he's always the first in line to poke a stick in USF's eye (I had to stop listening to the Bulluminati podcast because, frankly, I don't need to hear people constantly belittling their own alma mater).
I do want to point out one glaring item - go back and reread paragraph 5.
Of all the Latin phrases to choose...
USFFan
I know right is Collin "quo"? I could see it.
No. I'm not doxxing (actually got a time out for doing it many moons ago), but quo is a USF alumnus who lives in Louisiana (and I know at least Texan Mark has met him) and who I interacted with on usenet well before message boards became a thing. He points to his USF ties only when convenient, and isn't so much a USF fan as he is simply a self-loathing alumnus. Kind of like the students on your campus walking around wearing UF, FSU or Miami stuff.
Collin for sure still lives in Tampa. And I have no doubt that he's a USF fan. He just has a huge love/hate relationship with the athletic department (he used to work there). While I share his frustration sometimes, I can't say that I like the way he goes about his business.
USFFan
Those students are very rare to non-existent now. When I first went to UCF 20 years ago there were tons of them, but you don't see them anymore.
(10-26-2019 05:17 AM)CougarRed Wrote: In terms of athletic revenues, USF is always scraping the bottom of the conference in my "Fan $upport" numbers (ticket revenue + alumni donations).
This is primarily because they play off campus football. To compound matters, they pay rent to do so.
Everything changes if they can build a campus stadium.
2018 Fan $upport (from USAToday)
Memphis $21.8M
Wichita St $18.0M
East Carolina $17.1M
UCF $13.9M
Houston $12.7M
UConn $11.8M
Cincy $11.0M USF $5.4M
Temple, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU and Navy don't report.
For reference, UAB generates more Fan $upport than USF. So does App St. So does Marshall. So does Old Dominion. So does James Madison.
Tops in the MWC
SDSU $17.7M
Boise $17.2M
Fresno St $15.0M
UNLV $13.7M
Wyoming $13.2M
Colo St $13.1M
New Mexico $11.4M
Hawaii $10.7M
Everyone else in the MWC comes in less than $10M. Air Force generates $5.6M, which is why they should only be considered for football.
(10-26-2019 05:17 AM)CougarRed Wrote: In terms of athletic revenues, USF is always scraping the bottom of the conference in my "Fan $upport" numbers (ticket revenue + alumni donations).
This is primarily because they play off campus football. To compound matters, they pay rent to do so.
Everything changes if they can build a campus stadium.
2018 Fan $upport (from USAToday)
Memphis $21.8M
Wichita St $18.0M
East Carolina $17.1M
UCF $13.9M
Houston $12.7M
UConn $11.8M
Cincy $11.0M USF $5.4M
Temple, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU and Navy don't report.
For reference, UAB generates more Fan $upport than USF. So does App St. So does Marshall. So does Old Dominion. So does James Madison.
Tops in the MWC
SDSU $17.7M
Boise $17.2M
Fresno St $15.0M
UNLV $13.7M
Wyoming $13.2M
Colo St $13.1M
New Mexico $11.4M
Hawaii $10.7M
Everyone else in the MWC comes in less than $10M. Air Force generates $5.6M, which is why they should only be considered for football.
Memphis rents too.
Damn it, man, never let facts get in the way of the group think that the only way to be successful is to own your on campus stadium!
(10-26-2019 05:17 AM)CougarRed Wrote: In terms of athletic revenues, USF is always scraping the bottom of the conference in my "Fan $upport" numbers (ticket revenue + alumni donations).
This is primarily because they play off campus football. To compound matters, they pay rent to do so.
Everything changes if they can build a campus stadium.
2018 Fan $upport (from USAToday)
Memphis $21.8M
Wichita St $18.0M
East Carolina $17.1M
UCF $13.9M
Houston $12.7M
UConn $11.8M
Cincy $11.0M USF $5.4M
Temple, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU and Navy don't report.
For reference, UAB generates more Fan $upport than USF. So does App St. So does Marshall. So does Old Dominion. So does James Madison.
Tops in the MWC
SDSU $17.7M
Boise $17.2M
Fresno St $15.0M
UNLV $13.7M
Wyoming $13.2M
Colo St $13.1M
New Mexico $11.4M
Hawaii $10.7M
Everyone else in the MWC comes in less than $10M. Air Force generates $5.6M, which is why they should only be considered for football.
Memphis rents too.
Damn it, man, never let facts get in the way of the group think that the only way to be successful is to own your on campus stadium!
USFFan
Yes, they do. The thing that makes it work is a good relationship with the city. I haven’t added it up, but the city has put tens of millions in upgrades over the last decade. While an on campus stadium is ideal for multitudes of reasons, off campus rented facilities can work for all involved parties. The city is also assisting in bringing tennis back to campus with a world class facility and the county is pitching in for natatorium upgrades. W/o P5 money, these things are made possible through symbiotic relationships. I feel for metro teams who don’t enjoy these types of opportunities. Some politicians can’t see the forest for the trees.
(10-25-2019 10:51 AM)firmbizzle Wrote: Yep. It's an arms races for the last boat off of the G5 island. UConn couldn't keep up. USF is falling behind. The way I see it, only Cincinnati, Houston, UCF and maybe Memphis have any real shot.
FWIW, I don't think there is getting off of the G5 island. There's no longer an obvious incentive for those conferences to expand. This is the new normal.
USFFan
UCONN got off the island, and the way I see it we may have gotten one of the last lifeboats. Let's see how things shake out in the next five years, this was one of the best moves the school has made in years.
First off, kudos on your excellent editing and HTML skills. Maybe you can take your imaginary lifeboat to "HTML for Dummies" island and learn how to do something most elementary schoolers can do on their own. I fixed it for you (it took 30 seconds) - you're welcome.
But, to your point, I guess you're right, suicide is in fact another way off the island. Congratulations on self-immolating your football program so you can host DePaul, Xavier, Creighton and Butler every year in a sport worth 1/10 that of football.
USFFan
Don't care about the format its the words that count. UCONN tried to play the P5 game for years and look where it got them, not defending some of the choices they made but they were rejected by ACC, B10 & B12. It's not suicide when we will earn as much or more TO START than with the new ESPN contract. Everyone in this conference is looking to jump ship first chance they can, with some announcing it publicly, and UCONN is the bad guy? UCONN is a first basketball school with a national brand and is going to back to playing in the area they recruit, and not let a conference dictate their future. When UCF goes two years undefeated (which is no small task, cudos) and gets no respect in the playoffs it should tell you all you need to know, see you when your ESPN deal ends in 12 years
(10-25-2019 10:51 AM)firmbizzle Wrote: Yep. It's an arms races for the last boat off of the G5 island. UConn couldn't keep up. USF is falling behind. The way I see it, only Cincinnati, Houston, UCF and maybe Memphis have any real shot.
FWIW, I don't think there is getting off of the G5 island. There's no longer an obvious incentive for those conferences to expand. This is the new normal.
USFFan
UCONN got off the island, and the way I see it we may have gotten one of the last lifeboats. Let's see how things shake out in the next five years, this was one of the best moves the school has made in years.
First off, kudos on your excellent editing and HTML skills. Maybe you can take your imaginary lifeboat to "HTML for Dummies" island and learn how to do something most elementary schoolers can do on their own. I fixed it for you (it took 30 seconds) - you're welcome.
But, to your point, I guess you're right, suicide is in fact another way off the island. Congratulations on self-immolating your football program so you can host DePaul, Xavier, Creighton and Butler every year in a sport worth 1/10 that of football.
USFFan
Don't care about the format its the words that count. UCONN tried to play the P5 game for years and look where it got them, not defending some of the choices they made but they were rejected by ACC, B10 & B12. It's not suicide when we will earn as much or more TO START than with the new ESPN contract. Everyone in this conference is looking to jump ship first chance they can, with some announcing it publicly, and UCONN is the bad guy? UCONN is a first basketball school with a national brand and is going to back to playing in the area they recruit, and not let a conference dictate their future. When UCF goes two years undefeated (which is no small task, cudos) and gets no respect in the playoffs it should tell you all you need to know, see you when your ESPN deal ends in 12 years
LOL - you created an account for the sole purpose of posting those two posts? You seriously think you're going to earn "as much or more TO START than with the new ESPN contract?"
(10-25-2019 01:44 PM)usffan Wrote: FWIW, I don't think there is getting off of the G5 island. There's no longer an obvious incentive for those conferences to expand. This is the new normal.
USFFan
UCONN got off the island, and the way I see it we may have gotten one of the last lifeboats. Let's see how things shake out in the next five years, this was one of the best moves the school has made in years.
First off, kudos on your excellent editing and HTML skills. Maybe you can take your imaginary lifeboat to "HTML for Dummies" island and learn how to do something most elementary schoolers can do on their own. I fixed it for you (it took 30 seconds) - you're welcome.
But, to your point, I guess you're right, suicide is in fact another way off the island. Congratulations on self-immolating your football program so you can host DePaul, Xavier, Creighton and Butler every year in a sport worth 1/10 that of football.
USFFan
Don't care about the format its the words that count. UCONN tried to play the P5 game for years and look where it got them, not defending some of the choices they made but they were rejected by ACC, B10 & B12. It's not suicide when we will earn as much or more TO START than with the new ESPN contract. Everyone in this conference is looking to jump ship first chance they can, with some announcing it publicly, and UCONN is the bad guy? UCONN is a first basketball school with a national brand and is going to back to playing in the area they recruit, and not let a conference dictate their future. When UCF goes two years undefeated (which is no small task, cudos) and gets no respect in the playoffs it should tell you all you need to know, see you when your ESPN deal ends in 12 years
LOL - you created an account for the sole purpose of posting those two posts? You seriously think you're going to earn "as much or more TO START than with the new ESPN contract?"
USFFan
I created an account to express an opinion in a public forum, which I did without taking a shot at anyone in the conference. Guess someone was offended by my HTML coding . . .
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2019 05:52 PM by AZHusky.)
(10-25-2019 12:26 PM)Sideshow2313 Wrote: Since FL public schools can't raise tuition and they are already really cheap compared to other states; I have no issue with fees. My wife is going back for her doctoral so I am paying the fees and its not unrealistic in amount.
Plus for years Florida gave Bright Futures scholarships to anyone with a reasonable pulse that covered tuition (but not fees).Tuition was set artificially low for in-state students to save the legislature money.
(10-26-2019 09:54 AM)AZHusky Wrote: UCONN got off the island, and the way I see it we may have gotten one of the last lifeboats. Let's see how things shake out in the next five years, this was one of the best moves the school has made in years.
First off, kudos on your excellent editing and HTML skills. Maybe you can take your imaginary lifeboat to "HTML for Dummies" island and learn how to do something most elementary schoolers can do on their own. I fixed it for you (it took 30 seconds) - you're welcome.
But, to your point, I guess you're right, suicide is in fact another way off the island. Congratulations on self-immolating your football program so you can host DePaul, Xavier, Creighton and Butler every year in a sport worth 1/10 that of football.
USFFan
Don't care about the format its the words that count. UCONN tried to play the P5 game for years and look where it got them, not defending some of the choices they made but they were rejected by ACC, B10 & B12. It's not suicide when we will earn as much or more TO START than with the new ESPN contract. Everyone in this conference is looking to jump ship first chance they can, with some announcing it publicly, and UCONN is the bad guy? UCONN is a first basketball school with a national brand and is going to back to playing in the area they recruit, and not let a conference dictate their future. When UCF goes two years undefeated (which is no small task, cudos) and gets no respect in the playoffs it should tell you all you need to know, see you when your ESPN deal ends in 12 years
LOL - you created an account for the sole purpose of posting those two posts? You seriously think you're going to earn "as much or more TO START than with the new ESPN contract?"
USFFan
I created an account to express an opinion in a public forum, which I did without taking a shot at anyone in the conference. Guess someone was offended by my HTML coding . . .
Your opinion made claims about how leaving this conference was the best decision UConn ever made and falsely states that you'll make more money "FROM THE START" than you would have with the current contract, which is blatantly false. It was clearly aimed at trying to make yourself feel better about relegating your football team to independent obscurity as a pit stop on the way to FCS. So pardon me if I'm not buying your faux indignity about me calling you on your bullsh!t or your inability to function within the parameters of the board.
Most newbies lurk for a while to take the pulse of a board prior to dipping their toe in, but you were so moved in a post about a fan-written article bemoaning how expensive it will be to buy out our coach that you needed to jump right on in.
(10-25-2019 12:26 PM)Sideshow2313 Wrote: Since FL public schools can't raise tuition and they are already really cheap compared to other states; I have no issue with fees. My wife is going back for her doctoral so I am paying the fees and its not unrealistic in amount.
Plus for years Florida gave Bright Futures scholarships to anyone with a reasonable pulse that covered tuition (but not fees).Tuition was set artificially low for in-state students to save the legislature money.
And, by the way, their lobby (as well as those of the horribly misguided Florida Prepaid College Plan, who want to pocket the interest they've made from people instead of paying the universities) is pretty freaking powerful in Tallahassee.
A lot of arguments around Collin Sherwin here. I don't think most people know who he is and what he's done for USF athletics.
Collin never played football-he was in the athletic department during the meteoric rise from I-AA to the Big East. He is not just a "fan", he is a highly involved participant in supporting USF athletics and is still involved, even today, with fundraising for the school (although nowhere near the level he once was). He started The Daily Stampede (then Voodoo Five) after he left USF as a way of covering the Bulls, and got a negative public reputation because he started calling our former AD, Doug Woolard out for basically screwing over football and horrifically mismanaging Athletics. A lot of people point to Skip Holtz as the start of problems at USF, but if anyone deserves the lion's share of the blame for USF's mess today it would be Woolard. He failed to capitalize on the hot years from 2006 to 2010 to build key facilities and couldn't build relationships to take care of Olympic sports (for example he got fundraising for a golf facility, but the donor pulled the funds later). Had facilities been in place USF may well have been in the ACC or Big 12 today.
Going back to Sherwin-he's a negative nancy on media, but he wants nothing more but for USF athletics to do well in every sport and does everything he can to make that happen. Words cannot express how excited he is for USF basketball starting next week and how fun it's going to be to cover the basketBulls this year- and much of that press coverage will be positive.
The article has basically expressed the opinion of USF athletics I have held for the past few years. I get that there is a significant portion of USF fans who have been burned by USF's failure to win when it matters, to deliver that defining season that will win fans over for life. 2017 comes to mind, and losing six games in a row after pulling in 40k for a homecoming game vs. UConn has damaged the brand greatly. That said, I still believe USF can catch up and excel. Michael Kelly is far better than you all realize as an AD, he's simply dealing with years of incompetence to fix.
(10-26-2019 08:17 PM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote: A lot of arguments around Collin Sherwin here. I don't think most people know who he is and what he's done for USF athletics.
Collin never played football-he was in the athletic department during the meteoric rise from I-AA to the Big East. He is not just a "fan", he is a highly involved participant in supporting USF athletics and is still involved, even today, with fundraising for the school (although nowhere near the level he once was). He started The Daily Stampede (then Voodoo Five) after he left USF as a way of covering the Bulls, and got a negative public reputation because he started calling our former AD, Doug Woolard out for basically screwing over football and horrifically mismanaging Athletics. A lot of people point to Skip Holtz as the start of problems at USF, but if anyone deserves the lion's share of the blame for USF's mess today it would be Woolard. He failed to capitalize on the hot years from 2006 to 2010 to build key facilities and couldn't build relationships to take care of Olympic sports (for example he got fundraising for a golf facility, but the donor pulled the funds later). Had facilities been in place USF may well have been in the ACC or Big 12 today.
Going back to Sherwin-he's a negative nancy on media, but he wants nothing more but for USF athletics to do well in every sport and does everything he can to make that happen. Words cannot express how excited he is for USF basketball starting next week and how fun it's going to be to cover the basketBulls this year- and much of that press coverage will be positive.
The article has basically expressed the opinion of USF athletics I have held for the past few years. I get that there is a significant portion of USF fans who have been burned by USF's failure to win when it matters, to deliver that defining season that will win fans over for life. 2017 comes to mind, and losing six games in a row after pulling in 40k for a homecoming game vs. UConn has damaged the brand greatly. That said, I still believe USF can catch up and excel. Michael Kelly is far better than you all realize as an AD, he's simply dealing with years of incompetence to fix.
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