As part of 150th anniversary of college football, the SEC network and ESPN is broadcasting a great series on the history of SEC FB called Saturdays in the South. Wouldn't be great to be able to get to see one about the SWC?

I'd like to thank UH (or perhaps, the idiots who allowed them in the SWC), SMU, Jackie Sherrill, and DeLoss Dodds for their contribution to destroying the SWC and making it impossible for such a series to be developed. Perhaps also to those who "led" the lack of effort by Rice over the last 30 years of the SWC.

(10-12-2019 10:51 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  As part of 150th anniversary of college football, the SEC network and ESPN is broadcasting a great series on the history of SEC FB called Saturdays in the South. Wouldn't be great to be able to get to see one about the SWC?
I'd like to thank UH (or perhaps, the idiots who allowed them in the SWC), SMU, Jackie Sherrill, and DeLoss Dodds for their contribution to destroying the SWC and making it impossible for such a series to be developed. Perhaps also to those who "led" the lack of effort by Rice over the last 30 years of the SWC.

I'd put it 99% on DeLoss Dodds. As long as Darrell and Frank were running things at Texas and Arkansas, they made sure things held together. But when Darrell stepped down, Arkansas's position in the conference became untenable. Texas ran Arkansas (and later aTm) to the SEC. They also drove Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri out of the XII. Their arrogance knows no bounds. I hope Chris can tone that down a bit. The dismal performance of the LHN probably helps.

The other 1% I'd frankly put on Rice. By making no serious effort to compete in any sport for two decades, we became an embarrassment to those schools that actually had serious athletic ambitions.

69 You told me that Rice could have gone to the SEC when Arkansas jumped. The holdup was that Rice would have to spend $50 million on facility Improvements. Someone else told me that Rice would not get in the Big 12 later was that we would not spend $150 million on facilities.

(10-12-2019 11:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 10:51 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  As part of 150th anniversary of college football, the SEC network and ESPN is broadcasting a great series on the history of SEC FB called Saturdays in the South. Wouldn't be great to be able to get to see one about the SWC?
I'd like to thank UH (or perhaps, the idiots who allowed them in the SWC), SMU, Jackie Sherrill, and DeLoss Dodds for their contribution to destroying the SWC and making it impossible for such a series to be developed. Perhaps also to those who "led" the lack of effort by Rice over the last 30 years of the SWC.

I'd put it 99% on DeLoss Dodds. As long as Darrell and Frank were running things at Texas and Arkansas, they made sure things held together. But when Darrell stepped down, Arkansas's position in the conference became untenable. Texas ran Arkansas (and later aTm) to the SEC. They also drove Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri out of the XII. Their arrogance knows no bounds. I hope Chris can tone that down a bit. The dismal performance of the LHN probably helps.

The other 1% I'd frankly put on Rice. By making no serious effort to compete in any sport for two decades, we became an embarrassment to those schools that actually had serious athletic ambitions.

After NCAA v. OU, there was no chance for survival for a conference where more than half the members did not pull their own weight.

(10-12-2019 11:10 AM)75src Wrote:  69 You told me that Rice could have gone to the SEC when Arkansas jumped. The holdup was that Rice would have to spend $50 million on facility Improvements. Someone else told me that Rice would not get in the Big 12 later was that we would not spend $150 million on facilities.

(10-12-2019 11:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 10:51 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  As part of 150th anniversary of college football, the SEC network and ESPN is broadcasting a great series on the history of SEC FB called Saturdays in the South. Wouldn't be great to be able to get to see one about the SWC?
I'd like to thank UH (or perhaps, the idiots who allowed them in the SWC), SMU, Jackie Sherrill, and DeLoss Dodds for their contribution to destroying the SWC and making it impossible for such a series to be developed. Perhaps also to those who "led" the lack of effort by Rice over the last 30 years of the SWC.

I'd put it 99% on DeLoss Dodds. As long as Darrell and Frank were running things at Texas and Arkansas, they made sure things held together. But when Darrell stepped down, Arkansas's position in the conference became untenable. Texas ran Arkansas (and later aTm) to the SEC. They also drove Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri out of the XII. Their arrogance knows no bounds. I hope Chris can tone that down a bit. The dismal performance of the LHN probably helps.
The other 1% I'd frankly put on Rice. By making no serious effort to compete in any sport for two decades, we became an embarrassment to those schools that actually had serious athletic ambitions.

Intercollegiate athletics got to be big business between the mid-1960s and the mid-1970s. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and Vandy all decided to step up and play. Rice decided not to.

I came to Rice because I liked the combination of top-notch academics and big-time athletics. If I had to do it today, I would probably have gone to Notre Dame or Georgia Tech.

(10-12-2019 05:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 11:10 AM)75src Wrote:  69 You told me that Rice could have gone to the SEC when Arkansas jumped. The holdup was that Rice would have to spend $50 million on facility Improvements. Someone else told me that Rice would not get in the Big 12 later was that we would not spend $150 million on facilities.

(10-12-2019 11:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 10:51 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  As part of 150th anniversary of college football, the SEC network and ESPN is broadcasting a great series on the history of SEC FB called Saturdays in the South. Wouldn't be great to be able to get to see one about the SWC?
I'd like to thank UH (or perhaps, the idiots who allowed them in the SWC), SMU, Jackie Sherrill, and DeLoss Dodds for their contribution to destroying the SWC and making it impossible for such a series to be developed. Perhaps also to those who "led" the lack of effort by Rice over the last 30 years of the SWC.

I'd put it 99% on DeLoss Dodds. As long as Darrell and Frank were running things at Texas and Arkansas, they made sure things held together. But when Darrell stepped down, Arkansas's position in the conference became untenable. Texas ran Arkansas (and later aTm) to the SEC. They also drove Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri out of the XII. Their arrogance knows no bounds. I hope Chris can tone that down a bit. The dismal performance of the LHN probably helps.
The other 1% I'd frankly put on Rice. By making no serious effort to compete in any sport for two decades, we became an embarrassment to those schools that actually had serious athletic ambitions.

Intercollegiate athletics got to be big business between the mid-1960s and the mid-1970s. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and Vandy all decided to step up and play. Rice decided not to.

I came to Rice because I liked the combination of top-notch academics and big-time athletics. If I had to do it today, I would probably have gone to Notre Dame or Georgia Tech.

Georgia Tech may be worse than Rice in football right now. They're 1-5 and their only win is against a terrible USF team. Plus their men's basketball team is on probation and barred from the postseason this year due to Josh Pastner.

But ironically, my wife and oldest daughter are taking a visit to Tech Monday to check out the campus. And that may now be her #1 choice (she cares nothing about athletics though).

(10-12-2019 06:48 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 05:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 11:10 AM)75src Wrote:  69 You told me that Rice could have gone to the SEC when Arkansas jumped. The holdup was that Rice would have to spend $50 million on facility Improvements. Someone else told me that Rice would not get in the Big 12 later was that we would not spend $150 million on facilities.

(10-12-2019 11:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 10:51 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  As part of 150th anniversary of college football, the SEC network and ESPN is broadcasting a great series on the history of SEC FB called Saturdays in the South. Wouldn't be great to be able to get to see one about the SWC?
I'd like to thank UH (or perhaps, the idiots who allowed them in the SWC), SMU, Jackie Sherrill, and DeLoss Dodds for their contribution to destroying the SWC and making it impossible for such a series to be developed. Perhaps also to those who "led" the lack of effort by Rice over the last 30 years of the SWC.

I'd put it 99% on DeLoss Dodds. As long as Darrell and Frank were running things at Texas and Arkansas, they made sure things held together. But when Darrell stepped down, Arkansas's position in the conference became untenable. Texas ran Arkansas (and later aTm) to the SEC. They also drove Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri out of the XII. Their arrogance knows no bounds. I hope Chris can tone that down a bit. The dismal performance of the LHN probably helps.
The other 1% I'd frankly put on Rice. By making no serious effort to compete in any sport for two decades, we became an embarrassment to those schools that actually had serious athletic ambitions.

Intercollegiate athletics got to be big business between the mid-1960s and the mid-1970s. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and Vandy all decided to step up and play. Rice decided not to.

I came to Rice because I liked the combination of top-notch academics and big-time athletics. If I had to do it today, I would probably have gone to Notre Dame or Georgia Tech.

Georgia Tech may be worse than Rice in football right now. They're 1-5 and their only win is against a terrible USF team. Plus their men's basketball team is on probation and barred from the postseason this year due to Josh Pastner.

But ironically, my wife and oldest daughter are taking a visit to Tech Monday to check out the campus. And that may now be her #1 choice (she cares nothing about athletics though).

You mean the terrible USF team that beat BYU today 27-23 and is now 3-3? Wish Rice was that bad.

Yup that same USF team. BYU is incredibly beaten up by the injury bug (starting QB, top RB, top LB, one of their best OL). They were still leading today but then the #2 QB got hurt. BYU lost last week to Toledo (who lost today to Bowling Green). USF had wins over SC State and UConn. I think Rice would beat them.

(10-12-2019 06:48 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 05:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 11:10 AM)75src Wrote:  69 You told me that Rice could have gone to the SEC when Arkansas jumped. The holdup was that Rice would have to spend $50 million on facility Improvements. Someone else told me that Rice would not get in the Big 12 later was that we would not spend $150 million on facilities.

(10-12-2019 11:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 10:51 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  As part of 150th anniversary of college football, the SEC network and ESPN is broadcasting a great series on the history of SEC FB called Saturdays in the South. Wouldn't be great to be able to get to see one about the SWC?
I'd like to thank UH (or perhaps, the idiots who allowed them in the SWC), SMU, Jackie Sherrill, and DeLoss Dodds for their contribution to destroying the SWC and making it impossible for such a series to be developed. Perhaps also to those who "led" the lack of effort by Rice over the last 30 years of the SWC.

I'd put it 99% on DeLoss Dodds. As long as Darrell and Frank were running things at Texas and Arkansas, they made sure things held together. But when Darrell stepped down, Arkansas's position in the conference became untenable. Texas ran Arkansas (and later aTm) to the SEC. They also drove Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri out of the XII. Their arrogance knows no bounds. I hope Chris can tone that down a bit. The dismal performance of the LHN probably helps.
The other 1% I'd frankly put on Rice. By making no serious effort to compete in any sport for two decades, we became an embarrassment to those schools that actually had serious athletic ambitions.

Intercollegiate athletics got to be big business between the mid-1960s and the mid-1970s. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and Vandy all decided to step up and play. Rice decided not to.
I came to Rice because I liked the combination of top-notch academics and big-time athletics. If I had to do it today, I would probably have gone to Notre Dame or Georgia Tech.

Georgia Tech may be worse than Rice in football right now. They're 1-5 and their only win is against a terrible USF team. Plus their men's basketball team is on probation and barred from the postseason this year due to Josh Pastner.
But ironically, my wife and oldest daughter are taking a visit to Tech Monday to check out the campus. And that may now be her #1 choice (she cares nothing about athletics though).

GT may be right now. But they've spent most of the past 50 years not being worse than Rice in football or basketball, probably close to a push in baseball.

(10-12-2019 09:27 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Yup that same USF team. BYU is incredibly beaten up by the injury bug (starting QB, top RB, top LB, one of their best OL). They were still leading today but then the #2 QB got hurt. BYU lost last week to Toledo (who lost today to Bowling Green). USF had wins over SC State and UConn. I think Rice would beat them.

As OO says, most people won’t remember any of those details past tomorrow. 3-3 with wins over Ga Tech and BYU >> 0-6 with close losses to Army, Baylor and LaTech.

(10-12-2019 05:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 11:10 AM)75src Wrote:  69 You told me that Rice could have gone to the SEC when Arkansas jumped. The holdup was that Rice would have to spend $50 million on facility Improvements. Someone else told me that Rice would not get in the Big 12 later was that we would not spend $150 million on facilities.

(10-12-2019 11:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 10:51 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  As part of 150th anniversary of college football, the SEC network and ESPN is broadcasting a great series on the history of SEC FB called Saturdays in the South. Wouldn't be great to be able to get to see one about the SWC?
I'd like to thank UH (or perhaps, the idiots who allowed them in the SWC), SMU, Jackie Sherrill, and DeLoss Dodds for their contribution to destroying the SWC and making it impossible for such a series to be developed. Perhaps also to those who "led" the lack of effort by Rice over the last 30 years of the SWC.

I'd put it 99% on DeLoss Dodds. As long as Darrell and Frank were running things at Texas and Arkansas, they made sure things held together. But when Darrell stepped down, Arkansas's position in the conference became untenable. Texas ran Arkansas (and later aTm) to the SEC. They also drove Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri out of the XII. Their arrogance knows no bounds. I hope Chris can tone that down a bit. The dismal performance of the LHN probably helps.
The other 1% I'd frankly put on Rice. By making no serious effort to compete in any sport for two decades, we became an embarrassment to those schools that actually had serious athletic ambitions.

Intercollegiate athletics got to be big business between the mid-1960s and the mid-1970s. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and Vandy all decided to step up and play. Rice decided not to.

I came to Rice because I liked the combination of top-notch academics and big-time athletics. If I had to do it today, I would probably have gone to Notre Dame or Georgia Tech.

The only thing I'd quibble with in your post is that Northwestern, Vandy, et al., were no more ambitious, forward-thinking, and proactive than Rice was during the '60s-'80s -- *especially* Northwestern, a notoriously cheapskate operation with awful facilities for decades. They just happened to be in far more structurally stable conferences that were too big to fail.

Now sure, when a firehose of Big Ten TV money started spewing in Northwestern's direction, even they couldn't screw that up. But before that they did exactly jack squat in terms of strategic planning and execution.

Rice did the same . . . but was in a position (in no small part because of UT's venality, as you point out) where such inaction could actually have permanent consequences.

(10-13-2019 11:03 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 05:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 11:10 AM)75src Wrote:  69 You told me that Rice could have gone to the SEC when Arkansas jumped. The holdup was that Rice would have to spend $50 million on facility Improvements. Someone else told me that Rice would not get in the Big 12 later was that we would not spend $150 million on facilities.

(10-12-2019 11:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 10:51 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  As part of 150th anniversary of college football, the SEC network and ESPN is broadcasting a great series on the history of SEC FB called Saturdays in the South. Wouldn't be great to be able to get to see one about the SWC?
I'd like to thank UH (or perhaps, the idiots who allowed them in the SWC), SMU, Jackie Sherrill, and DeLoss Dodds for their contribution to destroying the SWC and making it impossible for such a series to be developed. Perhaps also to those who "led" the lack of effort by Rice over the last 30 years of the SWC.

I'd put it 99% on DeLoss Dodds. As long as Darrell and Frank were running things at Texas and Arkansas, they made sure things held together. But when Darrell stepped down, Arkansas's position in the conference became untenable. Texas ran Arkansas (and later aTm) to the SEC. They also drove Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri out of the XII. Their arrogance knows no bounds. I hope Chris can tone that down a bit. The dismal performance of the LHN probably helps.
The other 1% I'd frankly put on Rice. By making no serious effort to compete in any sport for two decades, we became an embarrassment to those schools that actually had serious athletic ambitions.

Intercollegiate athletics got to be big business between the mid-1960s and the mid-1970s. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and Vandy all decided to step up and play. Rice decided not to.
I came to Rice because I liked the combination of top-notch academics and big-time athletics. If I had to do it today, I would probably have gone to Notre Dame or Georgia Tech.

The only thing I'd quibble with in your post is that Northwestern, Vandy, et al., were no more ambitious, forward-thinking, and proactive than Rice was during the '60s-'80s -- *especially* Northwestern, a notoriously cheapskate operation with awful facilities for decades. They just happened to be in far more structurally stable conferences that were too big to fail.
Now sure, when a firehose of Big Ten TV money started spewing in Northwestern's direction, even they couldn't screw that up. But before that they did exactly jack squat in terms of strategic planning and execution.
Rice did the same . . . but was in a position (in no small part because of UT's venality, as you point out) where such inaction could actually have permanent consequences.

Northwestern and Vandy were late to come aboard, but Stanford and Duke (at least with respect to basketball) stepped up early. Stanford won the Rose Bowl in 1971 and 1972, and built an all-sports athletic program that has been tops in the country for years. Duke was in the NCAA final four in 1978 and fairly regularly thereafter, and Fred left Rice for Duke because they were willing to provide much more support for football.

Rice did absolutely nothing like any of that until Wayne Graham, and he basically had to run his own program and find his own support outside the athletic department.

What saved NW and Vandy are several things:
(1) they were the only private in both conferences. SWC was unique in that it was the only one with 4 privates.
(2) unlike the SWC, both of those conferences were much more spread out geographically. The states were focused on 1/2 schools-funds and otherwise. Competition for attendance was much less of a factor. Letting UH in meant that the alums of the BSU's could see their team in Houston once a year no matter what. And the proximity meant that such alums could always go to an away game if they lived closer than their school. LSU alums in Florida have one option every other year or need to travel quite the distance.
(3) DeLoss Dodds wasn't involved

The ACC just had 2 privates and basketball of the NC schools probably saved those two, not to mention the entire conference for that matter.

(10-14-2019 09:33 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  What saved NW and Vandy are several things:
(1) they were the only private in both conferences. SWC was unique in that it was the only one with 4 privates.
(2) unlike the SWC, both of those conferences were much more spread out geographically. The states were focused on 1/2 schools-funds and otherwise. Competition for attendance was much less of a factor. Letting UH in meant that the alums of the BSU's could see their team in Houston once a year no matter what. And the proximity meant that such alums could always go to an away game if they lived closer than their school. LSU alums in Florida have one option every other year or need to travel quite the distance.
(3) DeLoss Dodds wasn't involved
The ACC just had 2 privates and basketball of the NC schools probably saved those two, not to mention the entire conference for that matter.

What happened at both NW and Vandy is that the conferences told them to get their acts together. Being the only private school is a big thing, because of legal implications, and of course Rice did not have that advantage. It was a factor in choosing Baylor over UH for the XII. But that bought NW and Vandy more time to get their acts together, it didn't save them completely. If they had not done so, the SEC and B1G could have found other private schools (Notre Dame?, Duke?). But they did. Rice didn't. Baylor did. TCU eventually did. Now even SMU appears to be doing so.

(10-14-2019 09:33 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  SWC was unique in that it was the only one with 4 privates.

Plus a public school (UH) whose fan base at the time wasn’t any bigger than the privates’. So 5 schools out of 9 were providing barely any monetary value. After Arkansas left it was 5 out of 8.

The writing had been on the wall from the moment control of TV revenue shifted from the NCAA to the conferences. The SWC could not compete financially with the other majors.

I was not a fan of DeLoss Dodds, but it seems crazy to blame him, even partially, for the demise of the SWC, especially if we’re going to give a pass to Frank Broyles and Wally Groff.