(08-18-2019 01:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 01:48 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  We have no need in our society of people who incite idiots to commit crimes. We have too many idiots and not enough police!

IMO, Finebaum doesn't need to be on the air period.

I’m going to have the side with Voltaire as Finebaum clearly has a market. I’m not down with censorship for ‘the greater good’.

So your cool with people who yell fire in a crowded theater? People's rights to say things that can incite crimes I don't believe is protected speech. It's okay for Finebaum to say "You're an idiot if you think destroying property is an appropriate reponse." It's not okay for him to say, "I don't think you are man enough to back that up." when a threat has made.

The example you cited is illegal because the perpetrator is misrepresenting a life threatening situation. While I detest Finebaum for double dog daring someone with whom has had taken calls from previously, his show is a form of entertainment, not a call to action.

(08-18-2019 01:48 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  We have no need in our society of people who incite idiots to commit crimes. We have too many idiots and not enough police!

IMO, Finebaum doesn't need to be on the air period.

I’m going to have the side with Voltaire as Finebaum clearly has a market. I’m not down with censorship for ‘the greater good’.

And yet in our society today people are being censored for much much less, and sometimes for things which they have done in the distant past which are just now considered insensitive.

We are becoming a spasmodic dysfunctional society when it comes to what we deem punishable with regard to actual crimes and to what we give a social pass, up to and including assault by armed gangs in Portland. We need clarity all the way around on what shall and shall not be tolerated or it's going to get even uglier and a lot of innocent people will be in jeopardy. Property owners should be able to use force to protect their property because in many cases it represents what they need to make a living. In this case it was a landmark.
While Updyke is small potatoes the repercussions of his behavior is larger than just him. It's his actions that can't be tolerated.

(08-18-2019 02:04 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 01:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 01:48 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  We have no need in our society of people who incite idiots to commit crimes. We have too many idiots and not enough police!

IMO, Finebaum doesn't need to be on the air period.

I’m going to have the side with Voltaire as Finebaum clearly has a market. I’m not down with censorship for ‘the greater good’.

So your cool with people who yell fire in a crowded theater? People's rights to say things that can incite crimes I don't believe is protected speech. It's okay for Finebaum to say "You're an idiot if you think destroying property is an appropriate reponse." It's not okay for him to say, "I don't think you are man enough to back that up." when a threat has made.

The example you cited is illegal because the perpetrator is misrepresenting a life threatening situation. While I detest Finebaum for double dog daring someone with whom has had taken calls from previously, his show is a form of entertainment, not a call to action.

I suppose talk radio programs playing to a militant audience who low rate law enforcement and encourage public resistance is just entertainment too? It's a much stickier wicket than what you are presenting because the element of responsibility comes into play. Orson Welles did War of the Worlds with a disclaimer. In the end he got a pass, but laws were changed because of the panic.

We as a society have gotten abundantly reckless with some things we permit, and overly sensitive for others. It all must stop. Votaire also said that common sense was most uncommon. What we need as a people is a rebirth of common sense. But that means we need to teach logic and reasoning again, in spite of cultural objections.

(08-18-2019 02:04 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 01:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 01:48 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  We have no need in our society of people who incite idiots to commit crimes. We have too many idiots and not enough police!

IMO, Finebaum doesn't need to be on the air period.

I’m going to have the side with Voltaire as Finebaum clearly has a market. I’m not down with censorship for ‘the greater good’.

So your cool with people who yell fire in a crowded theater? People's rights to say things that can incite crimes I don't believe is protected speech. It's okay for Finebaum to say "You're an idiot if you think destroying property is an appropriate reponse." It's not okay for him to say, "I don't think you are man enough to back that up." when a threat has made.

The example you cited is illegal because the perpetrator is misrepresenting a life threatening situation. While I detest Finebaum for double dog daring someone with whom has had taken calls from previously, his show is a form of entertainment, not a call to action.

It is a call to action, finebalm should remember just that, it’s intertainment, he crossed that intertainmrent line when he suggested to this person to “ do more “ than just yap about it

Wait a second .... This clown was a retired POLICE OFFICER of some kind?????

What the hell.

Of ALL people, he should have known better.


And if Finebaum is such an inciter of violence, where are all the other examples of his show egging on idiots?

This is all on the clown who poisoned trees. Period.

Back in 2001 I believe, I had the pleasure of visiting Toomer's Corner with my wife - an Auburn grad. I only wish I could've seen it after it was rolled. My wife has some fond memories of participating in celebrations there after an Auburn victory. Harvey Upchuck will have this hanging over his head until he sets foot in his grave. The reason? He's not truly sorry for what he did. I understand having some financial constraints but only paying about $5k in 6 years is all you need to know about his state of remorse. The judge in this case should make an example of him that he was ordered to pay restitution as part of his guilt in a crime - make regular payments or go back to jail. Period!

Updyke is an idiot, that is very clear. Finebaum is also an idiot, that is also crystal clear.

It is also clear that, as an ex-police officer, Updyke has no respect for the court.

If he had made regular monthly payments, I doubt this would be a newsworthy item.

He failed to make regular payments, at all. That is on him.

He could have filed a Motion with the court, asking that the monthly payment be reduced.

Apparently, he didn't do that, either. He just missed payments.

I have no problem with the Judge sentencing him to 30 days in jail for contempt of court.

(08-18-2019 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Updyke is an idiot, that is very clear. Finebaum is also an idiot, that is also crystal clear.

It is also clear that, as an ex-police officer, Updyke has no respect for the court.

If he had made regular monthly payments, I doubt this would be a newsworthy item.

He failed to make regular payments, at all. That is on him.

He could have filed a Motion with the court, asking that the monthly payment be reduced.

Apparently, he didn't do that, either. He just missed payments.

I have no problem with the Judge sentencing him to 30 days in jail for contempt of court.

A fine this large for a retired cop is ridiculous. It's setting him up for debtors' prison.

The judge was sending a message. He may as well have made it a bagillion dollars, since it will never be paid anyways. I know a lot of people (law abiding citizens but with low impulse control and low education) who would have interpreted this message the same way as Updike. Their response would be "f-you, judge" and ignored the order.

Yes, he probably should have Filed a Motion. But who gets to rule on that motion?

And if you're facing $800,000 in fines, what lawyer will file the paperwork for you?

(08-18-2019 04:48 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Updyke is an idiot, that is very clear. Finebaum is also an idiot, that is also crystal clear.

It is also clear that, as an ex-police officer, Updyke has no respect for the court.

If he had made regular monthly payments, I doubt this would be a newsworthy item.

He failed to make regular payments, at all. That is on him.

He could have filed a Motion with the court, asking that the monthly payment be reduced.

Apparently, he didn't do that, either. He just missed payments.

I have no problem with the Judge sentencing him to 30 days in jail for contempt of court.

A fine this large for a retired cop is ridiculous. It's setting him up for debtors' prison.

The judge was sending a message. He may as well have made it a bagillion dollars, since it will never be paid anyways. I know a lot of people (law abiding citizens but with low impulse control and low education) who would have interpreted this message the same way as Updike. Their response would be "f-you, judge" and ignored the order.

Yes, he probably should have Filed a Motion. But who gets to rule on that motion?

And if you're facing $800,000 in fines, what lawyer will file the paperwork for you?

It's on Updike to know not to do what he did in the first place. Since he flunked that choice, it's on him to seek legal remedies within the system. He's paid less than $1,000 per year since 2013. If you have an income issue, go back to court instead of breaking a court order and getting yourself in a deeper hole. What did he think? His failure to pay was going to go unnoticed until he died? Man up and face the consequences.

(08-18-2019 07:15 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 04:48 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Updyke is an idiot, that is very clear. Finebaum is also an idiot, that is also crystal clear.

It is also clear that, as an ex-police officer, Updyke has no respect for the court.

If he had made regular monthly payments, I doubt this would be a newsworthy item.

He failed to make regular payments, at all. That is on him.

He could have filed a Motion with the court, asking that the monthly payment be reduced.

Apparently, he didn't do that, either. He just missed payments.

I have no problem with the Judge sentencing him to 30 days in jail for contempt of court.

A fine this large for a retired cop is ridiculous. It's setting him up for debtors' prison.

The judge was sending a message. He may as well have made it a bagillion dollars, since it will never be paid anyways. I know a lot of people (law abiding citizens but with low impulse control and low education) who would have interpreted this message the same way as Updike. Their response would be "f-you, judge" and ignored the order.

Yes, he probably should have Filed a Motion. But who gets to rule on that motion?

And if you're facing $800,000 in fines, what lawyer will file the paperwork for you?

It's on Updike to know not to do what he did in the first place. Since he flunked that choice, it's on him to seek legal remedies within the system. He's paid less than $1,000 per year since 2013. If you have an income issue, go back to court instead of breaking a court order and getting yourself in a deeper hole. What did he think? His failure to pay was going to go unnoticed until he died? Man up and face the consequences.

I'd be willing to waive the damages if he would agree to be a human test subject for Roundup's effects upon the human body.

(08-18-2019 07:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 07:15 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 04:48 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  A fine this large for a retired cop is ridiculous. It's setting him up for debtors' prison.

The judge was sending a message. He may as well have made it a bagillion dollars, since it will never be paid anyways. I know a lot of people (law abiding citizens but with low impulse control and low education) who would have interpreted this message the same way as Updike. Their response would be "f-you, judge" and ignored the order.

Yes, he probably should have Filed a Motion. But who gets to rule on that motion?

And if you're facing $800,000 in fines, what lawyer will file the paperwork for you?

It's on Updike to know not to do what he did in the first place. Since he flunked that choice, it's on him to seek legal remedies within the system. He's paid less than $1,000 per year since 2013. If you have an income issue, go back to court instead of breaking a court order and getting yourself in a deeper hole. What did he think? His failure to pay was going to go unnoticed until he died? Man up and face the consequences.

I'd be willing to waive the damages if he would agree to be a human test subject for Roundup's effects upon the human body.

Yep. Or, he has to work off the fine doing manual labor at an oak tree farm operated by Auburn University. The Auburn logo is in full view everywhere he goes...

(08-18-2019 04:48 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Updyke is an idiot, that is very clear. Finebaum is also an idiot, that is also crystal clear.

It is also clear that, as an ex-police officer, Updyke has no respect for the court.

If he had made regular monthly payments, I doubt this would be a newsworthy item.

He failed to make regular payments, at all. That is on him.

He could have filed a Motion with the court, asking that the monthly payment be reduced.

Apparently, he didn't do that, either. He just missed payments.

I have no problem with the Judge sentencing him to 30 days in jail for contempt of court.

A fine this large for a retired cop is ridiculous. It's setting him up for debtors' prison.

The judge was sending a message. He may as well have made it a bagillion dollars, since it will never be paid anyways. I know a lot of people (law abiding citizens but with low impulse control and low education) who would have interpreted this message the same way as Updike. Their response would be "f-you, judge" and ignored the order.

Yes, he probably should have Filed a Motion. But who gets to rule on that motion?

And if you're facing $800,000 in fines, what lawyer will file the paperwork for you?

Why should the fact that he is a retired cop be a reason for a smaller fine?

If he is some dumb, uneducated, easily incitable moron that JR claims he is, every arrest he made should be reviewed.

To borrow from a very good friend of mine who shared this with me:

1- He does not have to pay it, he can always go to jail.

2- If all restitution merely covered the "direct damages," there would be no disincentive for the affluent to commit property crime.

3- If all fines were based on ability to pay, poor people would have no disincentive for committing all kinds of property crime.

(08-18-2019 04:48 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  A fine this large for a retired cop is ridiculous. It's setting him up for debtors' prison.

Well he committed a crime, so prison is appropriate.

Quote:The judge was sending a message. He may as well have made it a bagillion dollars, since it will never be paid anyways. I know a lot of people (law abiding citizens but with low impulse control and low education) who would have interpreted this message the same way as Updike. Their response would be "f-you, judge" and ignored the order.

Nothing in this scenario is about law abiding citizens.

The guy was a state trooper! His whole career was built on justice and right vs wrong, but people here are blaming Finebaum!?!? Oy!

(08-19-2019 11:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  The guy was a state trooper! His whole career was built on justice and right vs wrong, but people here are blaming Finebaum!?!? Oy!

He made one mistake and gets fined nearly a million dollars, when his retired police pension is probably 2 or 3 thousand bucks a month. The punishment did not fit the crime. a 50K or 100K fine would have been more reasonable, given his income. at 800,000, they might as well have made it 10 Billion, because it will never realistically be paid. Heck, it won't be paid if they took every cent of his income the rest of his life, given his age and projected life expectancy.

(08-19-2019 01:00 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 11:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  The guy was a state trooper! His whole career was built on justice and right vs wrong, but people here are blaming Finebaum!?!? Oy!

He made one mistake and gets fined nearly a million dollars, when his retired police pension is probably 2 or 3 thousand bucks a month. The punishment did not fit the crime. a 50K or 100K fine would have been more reasonable, given his income. at 800,000, they might as well have made it 10 Billion, because it will never realistically be paid. Heck, it won't be paid if they took every cent of his income the rest of his life, given his age and projected life expectancy.

"He made one mistake! Go easy on him!"

Nah.

What if he went and won the lottery tomorrow? He'd certainly be able to pay it off then. Can't count on it, but you can't value something at a certain rate and then change the punishment on it because the guy is an old retired state trooper instead of some young guy that's still working.

Many people have to pay an immense price for single actions taken in their life. He's no different. He can pay what he can until he (or his estate) can't, chock the rest up to a loss, and move on with life.

(08-19-2019 01:00 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 11:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  The guy was a state trooper! His whole career was built on justice and right vs wrong, but people here are blaming Finebaum!?!? Oy!

He made one mistake and gets fined nearly a million dollars, when his retired police pension is probably 2 or 3 thousand bucks a month. The punishment did not fit the crime. a 50K or 100K fine would have been more reasonable, given his income. at 800,000, they might as well have made it 10 Billion, because it will never realistically be paid. Heck, it won't be paid if they took every cent of his income the rest of his life, given his age and projected life expectancy.

Just the crime he got caught doing. Probably has committed many more in the past. You know how thugs are.

(08-18-2019 02:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  But that means we need to teach logic and reasoning again, in spite of cultural objections.

Man, wouldn’t that be something? Critical thinking skills are absent throughout society. Talk about transformative change! Can you clarify who would have cultural objections? I suspect I agree with you, but wasn’t clear on what you meant here.