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Something to ponder
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Kaplony Offline
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Something to ponder
Why is it whenever the leftists want to discuss socialized medicine they always point to apples to oranges situations in foreign countries with different demographics, needs, style of government, etc. and never point to the example of socialized medicine that we already have here in the United States working with our existing demographics, needs and style of government, the Veterans Health Administration?
05-05-2019 05:41 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-05-2019 05:41 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Why is it whenever the leftists want to discuss socialized medicine they always point to apples to oranges situations in foreign countries with different demographics, needs, style of government, etc. and never point to the example of socialized medicine that we already have here in the United States working with our existing demographics, needs and style of government, the Veterans Health Administration?

1. Leftists don't think of Veterans at all.

2. They don't want to deal with the reality of its failure.

3. There's only 1 nation where it works but then they are careful with immigration and don't allow anyone in that won't work for 20 years paying taxes for it before retirement, New Zealand. And even their system is starting to show cracks.
05-05-2019 05:46 PM
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DustMyBroom Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-05-2019 05:41 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Why is it whenever the leftists want to discuss socialized medicine they always point to apples to oranges situations in foreign countries with different demographics, needs, style of government, etc. and never point to the example of socialized medicine that we already have here in the United States working with our existing demographics, needs and style of government, the Veterans Health Administration?

Doing so would point to the failures of Democratic Congresses and Presidents. It would also undermine the narrative of “America’s failing healthcare system”. The VA and Medicare also cost substantially more per patient than their single payer pipe dreams do, which would undermine their cost estimates.
05-05-2019 05:49 PM
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q5sys Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
The VA is so bad... I can get care there for free... and I opt to pay out of pocket for my medical care.
05-05-2019 05:56 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
Democrats don't want to admit Medicare is insolvent and in less than a decade will begin paying less than 100% of current benefits AND the benefit coverage payments will continue to decline over time.

IF Medicare only paid retiree benefits, it might be solvent longer but it covers so many that never paid a dime into the system. How would expanding such a program ever result in quality healthcare that remains solvent?
05-05-2019 06:28 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-05-2019 05:56 PM)q5sys Wrote:  The VA is so bad... I can get care there for free... and I opt to pay out of pocket for my medical care.

I think it is facility to facility. My dad got very good care and service at the VA in Fayetteville NC. Im sure others are not as good..but..this is one that all Americans can be proud of. It should be a model for the rest of the system.
05-05-2019 07:55 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-05-2019 05:41 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Why is it whenever the leftists want to discuss socialized medicine they always point to apples to oranges situations in foreign countries with different demographics, needs, style of government, etc. and never point to the example of socialized medicine that we already have here in the United States working with our existing demographics, needs and style of government, the Veterans Health Administration?

[Image: Screen-Shot-2018-05-25-at-4.15.27-AM-e1554404738596.png]
05-05-2019 07:58 PM
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q5sys Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-05-2019 07:55 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(05-05-2019 05:56 PM)q5sys Wrote:  The VA is so bad... I can get care there for free... and I opt to pay out of pocket for my medical care.

I think it is facility to facility. My dad got very good care and service at the VA in Fayetteville NC. Im sure others are not as good..but..this is one that all Americans can be proud of. It should be a model for the rest of the system.

Considering how close I live to DC... i would expect that the VAs near me would be decent.

I'm happy your father got taken care of. Maybe I should drive down there when I need something. lol
05-05-2019 08:29 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-05-2019 08:29 PM)q5sys Wrote:  
(05-05-2019 07:55 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(05-05-2019 05:56 PM)q5sys Wrote:  The VA is so bad... I can get care there for free... and I opt to pay out of pocket for my medical care.

I think it is facility to facility. My dad got very good care and service at the VA in Fayetteville NC. Im sure others are not as good..but..this is one that all Americans can be proud of. It should be a model for the rest of the system.

Considering how close I live to DC... i would expect that the VAs near me would be decent.

I'm happy your father got taken care of. Maybe I should drive down there when I need something. lol

They built a new facility about 5 years ago...before?...It was horrible. They converted the old VA into long term care and the new one is basically a giant clinical setting. Much better situation. I cant remember my dad ever waiting more than 15 mins for any appointment...often he was seen early. I was super impressed with the staff there.
05-05-2019 08:53 PM
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gdunn Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-05-2019 07:55 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(05-05-2019 05:56 PM)q5sys Wrote:  The VA is so bad... I can get care there for free... and I opt to pay out of pocket for my medical care.

I think it is facility to facility. My dad got very good care and service at the VA in Fayetteville NC. Im sure others are not as good..but..this is one that all Americans can be proud of. It should be a model for the rest of the system.

Well Fayettenam is the All American City...
05-06-2019 08:16 AM
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B_Hawk06 Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
Because it's not actually about providing adequate health care to them. They don't care about that, at all. What they care about is initially "selling" it to voters to establish and retain power. The same way they peddle the anti-2nd amendment garbage. They don't actually care. They care about making it a "socio-political" movement that they can establish long term voting blocks on. They same way they did with abortion, minorities, etc. It's a voting system game they're playing.

Equating their "causes" to actually caring about the people is the problem.

Chavez didn't actually care about the validity or adequacy of universal healthcare when he sold it to the Venezuelans to be voted in as their leader, but he used it to establish power. The commies didn't actually care about poor farmers and factory workers in Russia in the early 1900s. They used their causes and plights to establish power and subjugate EVERYONE.

The causes are irrelevant in their implementation. They're highly important though, in the establishment of power and maintaining it.
05-06-2019 11:20 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-06-2019 11:20 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Because it's not actually about providing adequate health care to them. They don't care about that, at all. What they care about is initially "selling" it to voters to establish and retain power. The same way they peddle the anti-2nd amendment garbage. They don't actually care. They care about making it a "socio-political" movement that they can establish long term voting blocks on. They same way they did with abortion, minorities, etc. It's a voting system game they're playing.

Equating their "causes" to actually caring about the people is the problem.

Chavez didn't actually care about the validity or adequacy of universal healthcare when he sold it to the Venezuelans to be voted in as their leader, but he used it to establish power. The commies didn't actually care about poor farmers and factory workers in Russia in the early 1900s. They used their causes and plights to establish power and subjugate EVERYONE.

The causes are irrelevant in their implementation. They're highly important though, in the establishment of power and maintaining it.

While I agree with your assessment of the issues and how they have been used, I had a governor explain it a bit differently to me 30 years ago. His take was that abortion/right to life, pro gun / anti gun, etc, (the things you call political-social issues) are used differently in this country. Here they don't get people elected per se. They distract the voters from the real agenda which is trade and tariff policies, and business as usual for the major corporations who lobby heavily on Capitol Hill.

His distinction was centered on the fact that the same corporations frequently back both the Republican and Democratic candidates via their PAC money. So in a two horse race both horses are owned by the same stable.

So in our case the social-political issues are a distraction that drives voter turnout. The corporate donations (which they get back through the media outlets they essentially own) buys the loyalty of the candidates and what we have business wise is a single party which manifests itself as a two party dichotomy via the social issue platform.

Back in the day the reason for our discussion was the perks that the major corporations were getting in forms of property tax cuts, portions of the state sales tax which they were permitted to retain from retail outlets, and access to resources like water for manufacturing all at rates the private business owner couldn't touch.

The fallout of that has been the death of private (family run businesses and small manufacturers) who found themselves as many as 13 points in our state behind what the larger companies were gifted in tax write offs and perks. Nobody can compete with a larger company which is already advantaged in capital and volume purchasing power when before the doors are opened on a business day they are 13 points behind.

Now why that was concerning to me is that it destroys much of what communities are built upon. For instance, the cut in property taxes robs funding from local fire, police and emergency services. This is usually made up by raising personal property taxes. So the consumer winds up paying more taxes for the slight discounts they get at the big box store and the funding still isn't enough for emergency services needs in a growing community with more demands and if the big box stores/chains are locating its because you are growing. Second, all local sales revenue from the big box stores is deposited and a check is written at the end of each week and the money is sent to the corporate headquarters. That money doesn't circulate in the local community as it once did so the added sales taxes generated as money taken in by business and its employees circulated among the others is curtailed. This isn't a big deal unless the community is under 50,000 and then the smaller the population the more negative the impact on the communities sales tax revenue. Third, the employees of the big box stores/chains usually only have 2 to 4 salaried positions (and then seldom above $35,000) and the rest are barely above minimum wage. Most don't have decent benefits and their health care is little better than a supplemental.

Now if the folks don't catch this part of the issue then they sure won't understand why these same corporations get cuts on tariffs and cuts on taxes by locating overseas for cheaper labor which also indirectly costs the average citizen back home. So here the major corporations use the social/political issues as a smoke screen to limit debate in elections to those divisive issues so that Q&A time isn't devoted to the various aspects of business advantage that they are getting which has permitted their record profits and growing power, and how that connects specifically with the largest of those conglomerates who also profit from their backing of the Federal Reserve which earns the interest on the National Debt.
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2019 11:55 AM by JRsec.)
05-06-2019 11:48 AM
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olliebaba Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-05-2019 06:28 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Democrats don't want to admit Medicare is insolvent and in less than a decade will begin paying less than 100% of current benefits AND the benefit coverage payments will continue to decline over time.

IF Medicare only paid retiree benefits, it might be solvent longer but it covers so many that never paid a dime into the system. How would expanding such a program ever result in quality healthcare that remains solvent?

I thought of my sofa sitting, work hating BIL when you posted that. I think in his 50 years of his pathetic life I think he's only worked 2 or 3 years total but he gets medicare and SSI bennies.
05-06-2019 01:23 PM
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-05-2019 06:28 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Democrats don't want to admit Medicare is insolvent and in less than a decade will begin paying less than 100% of current benefits AND the benefit coverage payments will continue to decline over time.

IF Medicare only paid retiree benefits, it might be solvent longer but it covers so many that never paid a dime into the system. How would expanding such a program ever result in quality healthcare that remains solvent?

Well, the earliest and most earnest pom-pom waver of this proposed stupity, the bern said it straight up at his Town Hall thing (I think it was).

He/they are gonna tax the ever living schit out of everyone, that's assuming they're paying taxes now, of course. And there's a whoooooole lot of people that effectively don't pay damn near anything %'wise in income tax.
05-06-2019 03:24 PM
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JMUDunk Online
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-06-2019 01:23 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(05-05-2019 06:28 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Democrats don't want to admit Medicare is insolvent and in less than a decade will begin paying less than 100% of current benefits AND the benefit coverage payments will continue to decline over time.

IF Medicare only paid retiree benefits, it might be solvent longer but it covers so many that never paid a dime into the system. How would expanding such a program ever result in quality healthcare that remains solvent?

I thought of my sofa sitting, work hating BIL when you posted that. I think in his 50 years of his pathetic life I think he's only worked 2 or 3 years total but he gets medicare and SSI bennies.

How the hell does he do that at 50?

Supposed "disability"?
05-06-2019 03:31 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Something to ponder
(05-06-2019 03:31 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(05-06-2019 01:23 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(05-05-2019 06:28 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Democrats don't want to admit Medicare is insolvent and in less than a decade will begin paying less than 100% of current benefits AND the benefit coverage payments will continue to decline over time.

IF Medicare only paid retiree benefits, it might be solvent longer but it covers so many that never paid a dime into the system. How would expanding such a program ever result in quality healthcare that remains solvent?

I thought of my sofa sitting, work hating BIL when you posted that. I think in his 50 years of his pathetic life I think he's only worked 2 or 3 years total but he gets medicare and SSI bennies.

How the hell does he do that at 50?

Supposed "disability"?

I refer you to the shyster lawyer discussion in the What Grinds Your Gears thread. There are those who specialize in getting SSI Disability Benefits.
05-06-2019 03:42 PM
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