(03-26-2019 06:15 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(03-26-2019 04:15 AM)pono Wrote:  Tike got shot when the cops busted a crap game and one of other guys who was carrying a small 22 handgun ran, dropped his gun and it discharged and the ricochet hit branch in the head. he pulled through but it was a traumatic brain injury and ended his career. was a very clever and crafty little guard. a juco who paired well with the freshman wade who played off guard that year.

wade grew into a good pg and was later joined by sutters, a great dunker and pretty good undersized 4. the teams never truly excelled but they got hot in eck's last year and advanced to the MAC title game but lost by a point.

gipson's last year was thames senior season and we also had local kid and minnesota transfer kevin baker and future nba center casey shaw and the rockets also got hot late and dominated a strong miami team in the semis but came up a few buckets short vs emu in the final

stan had a near certain ncaa team implode in 1999. that team w fedak, kizer, stempin, robierre cullars, clayton burch, rickey strong, justin hall, art norman, chad kamstra was one of the most talented in memory. they beat xavier and won at dayton and beat eventual final four team ohio state at home, beat that great sweet 16 wally szerbiak team, won the mac west when the league was very good and were a cinch tourney at large team until an assistant coach caught a group of players hanging out in a dorm room on a late season night drinking and smoking weed. stan suspended several key guys and the rockets blew an easy mac final regular season game by a point causing them to play their MAC quarterfinal tourney game at OU (the league did quarterfinal games on campus that year for some reason) and lost and fell out of the tourney bracket projections into the NIT.

the next year with a relatively younger roster the rockets struggled until february then broke off a season culminating 11 game win streak only to lose by a point in OT in the mac tourney.

then, the 2000-01 team- stempin's senior year, with terry reynolds, cullers, nic moore, rory jones, an improved senior craig rodgers, milo kirsch and albert wilson beat creighton, auburn, cincy and was hot at the end but lost another 1 point mac tourney game and went to the NIT

those 3 seasons were painful in that the team had a chance in 99 and 2001 to get into the tourney as an at large ( the MAC got at large berths in that era) and went into the 2000 and 2001 mac tourneys as the league's hottest team but lost crucial 1 point games each time. After that administrative, and to a degree, fan support for Stan dipped. and he began to be judged by coming up just short rather than putting together strong teams.

the 2006 team was very talented but inconsistent but got hot late and rode a 7 game winning streak into the mac final but got outplayed in the final minute of a very close game and missed the ncaas.

the next year we won the MAC but leading scorer keonte howell broke his foot in the mac tourney and we got clipped by miami in a close semi final game

the loaded 2013-14 team won 27 games but lost to western badly in the tourney championship.

last year we lost fletcher in the tourney to a knee injury and fell in the final.

this year, 25 wins but again killer end of the season injuries and a close mac tourney loss.

so, basically, there have been a slew of near misses but we somehow continue to miss on the tourney.

- Also, during Joplin’s later years the Rockets lost out on highly touted big man Paul Crosby out of Lansing, due to some academic glitch in HS credits, UT would not admit him.
Then the biggest loss was, future NBA player Patrick Beverly, who we lost to Arkansas because of, I believe, an asst. coach defection...
Had either, or both of those guys suited up for the Rockets, you might have seen UT in the tourney...

And last minute defection of Cozelle McQueen, starting center for NC State’s NCAA Championship team. We are snakebit. Not BG snakebit, but snakebit.

(03-26-2019 06:17 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(03-26-2019 06:15 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(03-26-2019 04:15 AM)pono Wrote:  Tike got shot when the cops busted a crap game and one of other guys who was carrying a small 22 handgun ran, dropped his gun and it discharged and the ricochet hit branch in the head. he pulled through but it was a traumatic brain injury and ended his career. was a very clever and crafty little guard. a juco who paired well with the freshman wade who played off guard that year.

wade grew into a good pg and was later joined by sutters, a great dunker and pretty good undersized 4. the teams never truly excelled but they got hot in eck's last year and advanced to the MAC title game but lost by a point.

gipson's last year was thames senior season and we also had local kid and minnesota transfer kevin baker and future nba center casey shaw and the rockets also got hot late and dominated a strong miami team in the semis but came up a few buckets short vs emu in the final

stan had a near certain ncaa team implode in 1999. that team w fedak, kizer, stempin, robierre cullars, clayton burch, rickey strong, justin hall, art norman, chad kamstra was one of the most talented in memory. they beat xavier and won at dayton and beat eventual final four team ohio state at home, beat that great sweet 16 wally szerbiak team, won the mac west when the league was very good and were a cinch tourney at large team until an assistant coach caught a group of players hanging out in a dorm room on a late season night drinking and smoking weed. stan suspended several key guys and the rockets blew an easy mac final regular season game by a point causing them to play their MAC quarterfinal tourney game at OU (the league did quarterfinal games on campus that year for some reason) and lost and fell out of the tourney bracket projections into the NIT.

the next year with a relatively younger roster the rockets struggled until february then broke off a season culminating 11 game win streak only to lose by a point in OT in the mac tourney.

then, the 2000-01 team- stempin's senior year, with terry reynolds, cullers, nic moore, rory jones, an improved senior craig rodgers, milo kirsch and albert wilson beat creighton, auburn, cincy and was hot at the end but lost another 1 point mac tourney game and went to the NIT

those 3 seasons were painful in that the team had a chance in 99 and 2001 to get into the tourney as an at large ( the MAC got at large berths in that era) and went into the 2000 and 2001 mac tourneys as the league's hottest team but lost crucial 1 point games each time. After that administrative, and to a degree, fan support for Stan dipped. and he began to be judged by coming up just short rather than putting together strong teams.

the 2006 team was very talented but inconsistent but got hot late and rode a 7 game winning streak into the mac final but got outplayed in the final minute of a very close game and missed the ncaas.

the next year we won the MAC but leading scorer keonte howell broke his foot in the mac tourney and we got clipped by miami in a close semi final game

the loaded 2013-14 team won 27 games but lost to western badly in the tourney championship.

last year we lost fletcher in the tourney to a knee injury and fell in the final.

this year, 25 wins but again killer end of the season injuries and a close mac tourney loss.

so, basically, there have been a slew of near misses but we somehow continue to miss on the tourney.

- Also, during Joplin’s later years the Rockets lost out on highly touted big man Paul Crosby out of Lansing, due to some academic glitch in HS credits, UT would not admit him.
Then the biggest loss was, future NBA player Patrick Beverly, who we lost to Arkansas because of, I believe, an asst. coach defection...
Had either, or both of those guys suited up for the Rockets, you might have seen UT in the tourney...

And last minute defection of Cozelle McQueen, starting center for NC State’s NCAA Championship team. We are snakebit. Not BG snakebit, but snakebit.

Think we need to ask Cozell about that one. Beverly, I think his HS Coach talked him out of the commit.

(03-26-2019 07:45 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(03-26-2019 06:17 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(03-26-2019 06:15 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(03-26-2019 04:15 AM)pono Wrote:  Tike got shot when the cops busted a crap game and one of other guys who was carrying a small 22 handgun ran, dropped his gun and it discharged and the ricochet hit branch in the head. he pulled through but it was a traumatic brain injury and ended his career. was a very clever and crafty little guard. a juco who paired well with the freshman wade who played off guard that year.

wade grew into a good pg and was later joined by sutters, a great dunker and pretty good undersized 4. the teams never truly excelled but they got hot in eck's last year and advanced to the MAC title game but lost by a point.

gipson's last year was thames senior season and we also had local kid and minnesota transfer kevin baker and future nba center casey shaw and the rockets also got hot late and dominated a strong miami team in the semis but came up a few buckets short vs emu in the final

stan had a near certain ncaa team implode in 1999. that team w fedak, kizer, stempin, robierre cullars, clayton burch, rickey strong, justin hall, art norman, chad kamstra was one of the most talented in memory. they beat xavier and won at dayton and beat eventual final four team ohio state at home, beat that great sweet 16 wally szerbiak team, won the mac west when the league was very good and were a cinch tourney at large team until an assistant coach caught a group of players hanging out in a dorm room on a late season night drinking and smoking weed. stan suspended several key guys and the rockets blew an easy mac final regular season game by a point causing them to play their MAC quarterfinal tourney game at OU (the league did quarterfinal games on campus that year for some reason) and lost and fell out of the tourney bracket projections into the NIT.

the next year with a relatively younger roster the rockets struggled until february then broke off a season culminating 11 game win streak only to lose by a point in OT in the mac tourney.

then, the 2000-01 team- stempin's senior year, with terry reynolds, cullers, nic moore, rory jones, an improved senior craig rodgers, milo kirsch and albert wilson beat creighton, auburn, cincy and was hot at the end but lost another 1 point mac tourney game and went to the NIT

those 3 seasons were painful in that the team had a chance in 99 and 2001 to get into the tourney as an at large ( the MAC got at large berths in that era) and went into the 2000 and 2001 mac tourneys as the league's hottest team but lost crucial 1 point games each time. After that administrative, and to a degree, fan support for Stan dipped. and he began to be judged by coming up just short rather than putting together strong teams.

the 2006 team was very talented but inconsistent but got hot late and rode a 7 game winning streak into the mac final but got outplayed in the final minute of a very close game and missed the ncaas.

the next year we won the MAC but leading scorer keonte howell broke his foot in the mac tourney and we got clipped by miami in a close semi final game

the loaded 2013-14 team won 27 games but lost to western badly in the tourney championship.

last year we lost fletcher in the tourney to a knee injury and fell in the final.

this year, 25 wins but again killer end of the season injuries and a close mac tourney loss.

so, basically, there have been a slew of near misses but we somehow continue to miss on the tourney.

- Also, during Joplin’s later years the Rockets lost out on highly touted big man Paul Crosby out of Lansing, due to some academic glitch in HS credits, UT would not admit him.
Then the biggest loss was, future NBA player Patrick Beverly, who we lost to Arkansas because of, I believe, an asst. coach defection...
Had either, or both of those guys suited up for the Rockets, you might have seen UT in the tourney...

And last minute defection of Cozelle McQueen, starting center for NC State’s NCAA Championship team. We are snakebit. Not BG snakebit, but snakebit.

Think we need to ask Cozell about that one. Beverly, I think his HS Coach talked him out of the commit.

Hard to say how close we really were but he made the right decision.

(03-26-2019 04:15 AM)pono Wrote:  Tike got shot when the cops busted a crap game and one of other guys who was carrying a small 22 handgun ran, dropped his gun and it discharged and the ricochet hit branch in the head. he pulled through but it was a traumatic brain injury and ended his career. was a very clever and crafty little guard. a juco who paired well with the freshman wade who played off guard that year.

wade grew into a good pg and was later joined by sutters, a great dunker and pretty good undersized 4. the teams never truly excelled but they got hot in eck's last year and advanced to the MAC title game but lost by a point.

gipson's last year was thames senior season and we also had local kid and minnesota transfer kevin baker and future nba center casey shaw and the rockets also got hot late and dominated a strong miami team in the semis but came up a few buckets short vs emu in the final

stan had a near certain ncaa team implode in 1999. that team w fedak, kizer, stempin, robierre cullars, clayton burch, rickey strong, justin hall, art norman, chad kamstra was one of the most talented in memory. they beat xavier and won at dayton and beat eventual final four team ohio state at home, beat that great sweet 16 wally szerbiak team, won the mac west when the league was very good and were a cinch tourney at large team until an assistant coach caught a group of players hanging out in a dorm room on a late season night drinking and smoking weed. stan suspended several key guys and the rockets blew an easy mac final regular season game by a point causing them to play their MAC quarterfinal tourney game at OU (the league did quarterfinal games on campus that year for some reason) and lost and fell out of the tourney bracket projections into the NIT.

the next year with a relatively younger roster the rockets struggled until february then broke off a season culminating 11 game win streak only to lose by a point in OT in the mac tourney.

then, the 2000-01 team- stempin's senior year, with terry reynolds, cullers, nic moore, rory jones, an improved senior craig rodgers, milo kirsch and albert wilson beat creighton, auburn, cincy and was hot at the end but lost another 1 point mac tourney game and went to the NIT

those 3 seasons were painful in that the team had a chance in 99 and 2001 to get into the tourney as an at large ( the MAC got at large berths in that era) and went into the 2000 and 2001 mac tourneys as the league's hottest team but lost crucial 1 point games each time. After that administrative, and to a degree, fan support for Stan dipped. and he began to be judged by coming up just short rather than putting together strong teams.

the 2006 team was very talented but inconsistent but got hot late and rode a 7 game winning streak into the mac final but got outplayed in the final minute of a very close game and missed the ncaas.

the next year we won the MAC but leading scorer keonte howell broke his foot in the mac tourney and we got clipped by miami in a close semi final game

the loaded 2013-14 team won 27 games but lost to western badly in the tourney championship.

last year we lost fletcher in the tourney to a knee injury and fell in the final.

this year, 25 wins but again killer end of the season injuries and a close mac tourney loss.

so, basically, there have been a slew of near misses but we somehow continue to miss on the tourney.

Pono, good summary of the near misses. Makes you wonder if there really is a curse!

not sure if it's a curse. a curse requires powerful intention by the protagonist and a susceptible moral or spiritual weakness in the victim. I think it shows that if something could go wrong it will for certain teams, but eventually there will be some leveling of luck. the red sox were cursed forever. multiple generations of their most die hard fans never saw them win a championship before they died. the cubs were in purgatory for a century. just when it seemed to be broken, their bad luck became almost comical when a kid superfan in the front row reached out and accidentally knocked away the ball that would have sent them to the world series. one way to look at it is that UT has been healthy when they were almost (by a whisker) good enough to win the MAC. they have been injured when they were otherwise good enough to win. and they were undisciplined on a couple of occasions when they had done enough to get an at large as long as they avoided bad losses late in the season.

if you look at the drought. since the last tourney team in 1980, Nichols had a good NIT team the next year. Then, we were pretty good, but never great, the next (epperson, reiser and gast) years. not very good his last two. there was excitement for the eck years. the 80s were boom years for college basketball and there was a lot of hype and expectations. eck never put together a complete roster or signed a great player but he usually had several talented and exciting players and on occasion we could beat good teams and nearly won the tourney his last year. gipson had 1 lost year to rebuild and then had average to pretty good teams the next 4 while developing a fairly complete roster and restoring some local ties that need mending by bringing in thames, scoop williams, kevin baker, matt gladieux, and then shaw, kizer, fedak... we were relevent again, but never great, had 1 run to the mac tourney final but lost to a team that was a little better (went to sweet 16). stan comes in and there is new hope with that direct connection to our biggest win and the tourney. it's his first college head coaching job and the first couple years are up and down but then we get good for 8 of the next 9 years (even that 1 losing year we won at michigan state). however, we don't make our breaks. we are undisciplined a couple years when we had the talent and big wins to go. we have a crucial tourney injury one year when we have the best team in the league. we lose close heartbreaker games repeatedly in the tourney. we have a popular player die in a team workout and are just short that year. there is utter dysfunction and evil for 2 years under hewhoshallnotbenamed. and now under coach k there is a first year for deep cleaning and then we are good for 6 of the next 8 and not bad the other 2. but, we ar ethe 2nd best team in the mac one good year. we have some tough losses and lose confidence with a very talented team the next year. and the last two we are the 2nd best team again and get hit by crucial injuries that insure our fate. this is all a long way of saying that toledo is the unusual case of the team school that is usually pretty good but never consistently the best. if we were the best team in the league 3 straight years luck would bend our way faster. if we usually sucked we wouldn't have the expectation to ever make it. and if we were perpetually average no one would care. the "curse" is mostly that we are good enough to have hope but seldom great enough to succeed.

Nate Oats to Alabama

I hope TT wins it all.

Well, pono, great summation!

(04-02-2019 11:21 AM)Springboromark Wrote:  Well, pono, great summation!

Yeah, thanks a lot. I WAS numb to the pain of our close-but-no-cigar luck.