I know that in the previous tiebreaker thread we had, the consensus was that UC would win out against UH in the event of both teams finishing out at 16-2 and 1-1 h2h, due to UC having a better record against Temple. However, after doing some digging I found this post on a Cincy forum from two years ago. Thoughts?

https://bearcatnews.com/forum/basketball...2-team-tie

Here's the information I copied from the AAC Media Guide regarding the procedures to break ties in the standings. The conference uses this solely for seeding, not in declaring a regular season champion. If there is a tie, the matched teams share the title.

Two-Team Tie

1. Regular season head-to-head results (one or two games). If the tied teams split their two games, then proceed to Step 2.

2. Each team’s record vs. the team or tied teams occupying the highest position in the standings. Continue down through the standings until one team gains an advantage. When comparing records against a single team or collective tied teams (before ties are broken), the following may apply:

a. If the games played against the team or group are equal, winning percentage prevails.

b. If the games played against the team or group are unequal, the following scenarios apply:

i. Most wins do prevail only if the team with fewer wins could not equal that win total if they played the same number of games. Two examples of many scenarios that do provide an advantage:
1) Team A 2-0 2) Team A 3-0
Team B 0-1 Team B 1-1

ii. Most wins do not prevail if the team with fewer wins could equal or surpass the win total of the other team. Two examples of many scenarios that do not provide an advantage:
1) Team A 1-1 2) Team A 2-0
Team B 0-1 Team B 1-0

iii. Fewer losses do not prevail if the teams have the same number of wins and if the team with fewer games could equal or surpass the loss total of the other team. Two examples of many scenarios that do not provide an advantage:
1) Team A 1-0 2) Team A 0-1
Team B 1-1 Team B 0-2

c. If an advantage is not determined, proceed to the next team or group in the standings for comparison.

d. If the tie cannot be broken after continuing down through the last team or teams in the standings, revert back to comparing records against the top teams in order and allow winning percentage to prevail even if there is a comparison of unequal games. Only then, if the percentages are both 1.000, is 2-0 better than 1-0. However, the reverse is not true – no team gains advantage when all have a .000 winning percentage (0-1 is never better than 0-2).

2.b.i and 2.b.iii are the sections of interest.

(03-01-2019 02:24 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  2.b.iii is the section of interest.

I would like to give you an informed reply, but I am struggling to understand what point you are trying to make. Are you concerned if UC wins out, that UH wouldn't be considered the conference co-champion?

a tie between ucf, temple and memphis is possible (for bye purposes)...a tie between uc, temple and ucf is possible (in regards of when you have to play houston)

uc losing out (vs memphis, ucf houston) 13-5
temple winning out (Tulane, uconn, ucf) 13-5
ucf winning out but temple (temple, cincy houston) 13-5

who gets the tie breaker? (also noting we'd be looking at 5 bids if this happened, with memphis)

(03-01-2019 02:28 PM)Billy Bob Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 02:24 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  2.b.iii is the section of interest.

I would like to give you an informed reply, but I am struggling to understand what point you are trying to make. Are you concerned if UC wins out, that UH wouldn't be considered the conference co-champion?

this is for conference seeding. all teams tied for #1 at the end of the season are considered co champs

(03-01-2019 02:28 PM)Billy Bob Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 02:24 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  2.b.iii is the section of interest.

I would like to give you an informed reply, but I am struggling to understand what point you are trying to make. Are you concerned if UC wins out, that UH wouldn't be considered the conference co-champion?

No. Just a discussion on seeding for the conference tourney. Its just previously when we had a discussion about seeding the consensus was that a tie would likely give UC the #1 seed in the tournament. It appears it would actually give UH the one seed. I don't know if thats really an advantage this year as it likely means getting matched up with Memphis earlier, just thought it was interesting.

(03-01-2019 02:32 PM)pesik Wrote:  a tie between ucf, temple and memphis is possible (for bye purposes)...a tie between uc, temple and ucf is possible in regards of when) you ahve to play houston)

uc losing out (vs memphis, ucf houston) 13-5
temple winning out (Tulane, uconn, ucf) 13-5
ucf winning out but temple (temple, cincy houston) 13-5

who gets the tie breaker? (also noting we'd be looking at 5 bids if this happened, with memphis)

Now thats an interesting scenario. Probably the only way we'd get 5 bids.

(03-01-2019 02:36 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 02:32 PM)pesik Wrote:  a tie between ucf, temple and memphis is possible (for bye purposes)...a tie between uc, temple and ucf is possible in regards of when) you ahve to play houston)

uc losing out (vs memphis, ucf houston) 13-5
temple winning out (Tulane, uconn, ucf) 13-5
ucf winning out but temple (temple, cincy houston) 13-5

who gets the tie breaker? (also noting we'd be looking at 5 bids if this happened, with memphis)

Now thats an interesting scenario. Probably the only way we'd get 5 bids.

Two real ways involving Memphis.

1. Memphis wins CCG and 4 other teams have at-large resumes
2. Memphis wins out, but loses the CCG, and the 3 other teams who didnt win the CCG have a good enough resume for an at-large.

(03-01-2019 02:24 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  2.b.i and 2.b.iii are the sections of interest.

Someone posted an in depth look at the tiebreaking rules on our 247 sports board. The consensus was that UH would be the #1 seed in the tourney, though obviously both would be considered reg season co-champs.

I thought someone corrected that here too, but the way I read it, UH would win the seeding tiebreaker assuming both win out until the final game and UC beats UH.

If Houston makes it to the UC game without losing they'll be the one seed.

(03-01-2019 03:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  If Houston makes it to the UC game without losing they'll be the one seed.

Incorrect.

Should Houston win out and lose the Cincy game and split the title with Cincinnati. Cincinnati is the one seed based on beating Temple and Houston losing to them.

For the other scenario, Temple is the two seed by virtue of beating the top seed Houston. Head to head between Cincy and UCF would split, so record against the highest seed (Houston) would give UCF the third and Cincy would slip to fourth.

Memphis needs about five quad 1 wins to get in. If they get to four or so they would be a bubble team. They currently have one I believe.

(03-01-2019 04:50 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 03:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  If Houston makes it to the UC game without losing they'll be the one seed.

Incorrect.

Should Houston win out and lose the Cincy game and split the title with Cincinnati. Cincinnati is the one seed based on beating Temple and Houston losing to them.

For the other scenario, Temple is the two seed by virtue of beating the top seed Houston. Head to head between Cincy and UCF would split, so record against the highest seed (Houston) would give UCF the third and Cincy would slip to fourth.

Memphis needs about five quad 1 wins to get in. If they get to four or so they would be a bubble team. They currently have one I believe.

Not according to the tiebreaker rules outlined in the OP. As long as UH wins these next two they're the one seed.

(03-01-2019 05:03 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 04:50 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 03:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  If Houston makes it to the UC game without losing they'll be the one seed.

Incorrect.

Should Houston win out and lose the Cincy game and split the title with Cincinnati. Cincinnati is the one seed based on beating Temple and Houston losing to them.

For the other scenario, Temple is the two seed by virtue of beating the top seed Houston. Head to head between Cincy and UCF would split, so record against the highest seed (Houston) would give UCF the third and Cincy would slip to fourth.

Memphis needs about five quad 1 wins to get in. If they get to four or so they would be a bubble team. They currently have one I believe.

Not according to the tiebreaker rules outlined in the OP. As long as UH wins these next two they're the one seed.

Houston played ECU twice. Temple twice.

Cincy played them each once.

Therefore those games are eliminated. Since the other games are equal, with you both only having a loss to each other, you go down to d.

D. Tells you to go back and compare the records against top teams regardless of how many times you played any team.

First record change is against Temple who will finish higher than ECU by every measure. The winning percentage against Temple? Cincy 1.000 Houston .500.

(03-01-2019 04:50 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 03:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  If Houston makes it to the UC game without losing they'll be the one seed.

Incorrect.

Should Houston win out and lose the Cincy game and split the title with Cincinnati. Cincinnati is the one seed based on beating Temple and Houston losing to them.

For the other scenario, Temple is the two seed by virtue of beating the top seed Houston. Head to head between Cincy and UCF would split, so record against the highest seed (Houston) would give UCF the third and Cincy would slip to fourth.

Memphis needs about five quad 1 wins to get in. If they get to four or so they would be a bubble team. They currently have one I believe.

You would be incorrect. UH gets the 1 seed if we both win out up to next Sunday. Regardless of the outcome of that game.

(03-01-2019 05:16 PM)Joprior23 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 04:50 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 03:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  If Houston makes it to the UC game without losing they'll be the one seed.

Incorrect.

Should Houston win out and lose the Cincy game and split the title with Cincinnati. Cincinnati is the one seed based on beating Temple and Houston losing to them.

For the other scenario, Temple is the two seed by virtue of beating the top seed Houston. Head to head between Cincy and UCF would split, so record against the highest seed (Houston) would give UCF the third and Cincy would slip to fourth.

Memphis needs about five quad 1 wins to get in. If they get to four or so they would be a bubble team. They currently have one I believe.

You would be incorrect. UH gets the 1 seed if we both win out up to next Sunday. Regardless of the outcome of that game.

Read my post above.

(03-01-2019 05:17 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:16 PM)Joprior23 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 04:50 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 03:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  If Houston makes it to the UC game without losing they'll be the one seed.

Incorrect.

Should Houston win out and lose the Cincy game and split the title with Cincinnati. Cincinnati is the one seed based on beating Temple and Houston losing to them.

For the other scenario, Temple is the two seed by virtue of beating the top seed Houston. Head to head between Cincy and UCF would split, so record against the highest seed (Houston) would give UCF the third and Cincy would slip to fourth.

Memphis needs about five quad 1 wins to get in. If they get to four or so they would be a bubble team. They currently have one I believe.

You would be incorrect. UH gets the 1 seed if we both win out up to next Sunday. Regardless of the outcome of that game.

Read my post above.

The way I read it, the record against ECU doesn't get thrown out, because we couldn't match the win total UH had against them (2) even if we played another game (we could only be 1-1). That's what I saw as the reason UH would win the tiebreaker.

This is what happens with a lack of a double round robin. I hate the Big East (mainly because X is in it), but they do it right.

(03-01-2019 05:34 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:17 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:16 PM)Joprior23 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 04:50 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 03:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  If Houston makes it to the UC game without losing they'll be the one seed.

Incorrect.

Should Houston win out and lose the Cincy game and split the title with Cincinnati. Cincinnati is the one seed based on beating Temple and Houston losing to them.

For the other scenario, Temple is the two seed by virtue of beating the top seed Houston. Head to head between Cincy and UCF would split, so record against the highest seed (Houston) would give UCF the third and Cincy would slip to fourth.

Memphis needs about five quad 1 wins to get in. If they get to four or so they would be a bubble team. They currently have one I believe.

You would be incorrect. UH gets the 1 seed if we both win out up to next Sunday. Regardless of the outcome of that game.

Read my post above.

The way I read it, the record against ECU doesn't get thrown out, because we couldn't match the win total UH had against them (2) even if we played another game (we could only be 1-1). That's what I saw as the reason UH would win the tiebreaker.

This is what happens with a lack of a double round robin. I hate the Big East (mainly because X is in it), but they do it right.

Damn it, idk now. That may be true...I'm not sure because ecu/temple is unbalanced for both.

Either way it's clear this is a crap way to figure it out. I would prefer a coin toss in this scenario, since everything that can be equal would be equal here. Not sure it will matter all that much.

(03-01-2019 05:41 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:34 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:17 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:16 PM)Joprior23 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 04:50 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  Incorrect.

Should Houston win out and lose the Cincy game and split the title with Cincinnati. Cincinnati is the one seed based on beating Temple and Houston losing to them.

For the other scenario, Temple is the two seed by virtue of beating the top seed Houston. Head to head between Cincy and UCF would split, so record against the highest seed (Houston) would give UCF the third and Cincy would slip to fourth.

Memphis needs about five quad 1 wins to get in. If they get to four or so they would be a bubble team. They currently have one I believe.

You would be incorrect. UH gets the 1 seed if we both win out up to next Sunday. Regardless of the outcome of that game.

Read my post above.

The way I read it, the record against ECU doesn't get thrown out, because we couldn't match the win total UH had against them (2) even if we played another game (we could only be 1-1). That's what I saw as the reason UH would win the tiebreaker.

This is what happens with a lack of a double round robin. I hate the Big East (mainly because X is in it), but they do it right.

Damn it, idk now. That may be true...I'm not sure because ecu/temple is unbalanced for both.

Either way it's clear this is a crap way to figure it out. I would prefer a coin toss in this scenario, since everything that can be equal would be equal here. Not sure it will matter all that much.

As Stxrunner stated above the ECU games don't get tossed out. Agreed the whole thing is convoluted and imo not really the best way to determine it. That said I don't think its really going to matter. Winning the tournament would be tough on either side of the bracket. You could even argue that the #1 seed could be tougher if the #4 or #5 ends up being Memphis (given that they'll be on their home court).

(03-01-2019 05:41 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:34 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:17 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:16 PM)Joprior23 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 04:50 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  Incorrect.

Should Houston win out and lose the Cincy game and split the title with Cincinnati. Cincinnati is the one seed based on beating Temple and Houston losing to them.

For the other scenario, Temple is the two seed by virtue of beating the top seed Houston. Head to head between Cincy and UCF would split, so record against the highest seed (Houston) would give UCF the third and Cincy would slip to fourth.

Memphis needs about five quad 1 wins to get in. If they get to four or so they would be a bubble team. They currently have one I believe.

You would be incorrect. UH gets the 1 seed if we both win out up to next Sunday. Regardless of the outcome of that game.

Read my post above.

The way I read it, the record against ECU doesn't get thrown out, because we couldn't match the win total UH had against them (2) even if we played another game (we could only be 1-1). That's what I saw as the reason UH would win the tiebreaker.

This is what happens with a lack of a double round robin. I hate the Big East (mainly because X is in it), but they do it right.

Damn it, idk now. That may be true...I'm not sure because ecu/temple is unbalanced for both.

Either way it's clear this is a crap way to figure it out. I would prefer a coin toss in this scenario, since everything that can be equal would be equal here. Not sure it will matter all that much.

I really dont see what's unfair about the team with the worst loss getting the lesser seed.

(03-01-2019 06:16 PM)justin_sane15 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:41 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:34 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:17 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:16 PM)Joprior23 Wrote:  You would be incorrect. UH gets the 1 seed if we both win out up to next Sunday. Regardless of the outcome of that game.

Read my post above.

The way I read it, the record against ECU doesn't get thrown out, because we couldn't match the win total UH had against them (2) even if we played another game (we could only be 1-1). That's what I saw as the reason UH would win the tiebreaker.

This is what happens with a lack of a double round robin. I hate the Big East (mainly because X is in it), but they do it right.

Damn it, idk now. That may be true...I'm not sure because ecu/temple is unbalanced for both.

Either way it's clear this is a crap way to figure it out. I would prefer a coin toss in this scenario, since everything that can be equal would be equal here. Not sure it will matter all that much.

I really dont see what's unfair about the team with the worst loss getting the lesser seed.

Because they also have the better win. And would most likely have been favored at home to go 2-0 vs Temple, meaning it never gets to ECU.

It's really irrelevant this year as both teams are clearly quite good and the tournament is deep. I don't care either way and both teams still have tough but winnable games to play that could change all of it or make it irrelevant. I don't have a problem with your stance either, in fact I don't have a problem with it either way which is why I said a coin toss.

Also it just so happens that the loss is to.the worst team. It could have worked out the other way or with two teams who also finish in a tie in the standings. It only matters that they played the team you loss to once and you play the team they loss to twice.