Here's my new best hope. Trump hangs on and eventually gets his wall, but he does significant damage to his own brand politically in the process. Mueller comes up with a nothing burger, but democrats keep trying to pin something on him. Eventually he decides that he's had enough. He gets to put ACB on the court to replace RBG, but otherwise loses interest and decides not to run again. Republicans find a center-right candidate who appeals to the middle, democrats stay with bat-**** crazy socialists/commies, and republicans win in 2020. Democrats realize that they need to move back to the center, and we go forward with a center-left party and a center-right party--just like we used to have in the good old days.

Chance of this happening? Maybe 1%. Probably about the same as Donald Trump's chances of getting elected president four years ago.

(01-24-2019 08:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Here's my new best hope. Trump hangs on and eventually gets his wall, but he does significant damage to his own brand politically in the process. Mueller comes up with a nothing burger, but democrats keep trying to pin something on him. Eventually he decides that he's had enough. He gets to put ACB on the court to replace RBG, but otherwise loses interest and decides not to run again. Republicans find a center-right candidate who appeals to the middle, democrats stay with bat-**** crazy socialists/commies, and republicans win in 2020. Democrats realize that they need to move back to the center, and we go forward with a center-left party and a center-right party--just like we used to have in the good old days.

Chance of this happening? Maybe 1%. Probably about the same as Donald Trump's chances of getting elected president four years ago.

I submit that Trump is far closer to the center than any republican in my lifetime. I mean, he is pretty anti-war, not particularly religious, pro-spending, and has a protectionist streak. He is an *******, but his positions are indeed center... or what would have been considered center 20 years ago. "Left", "Right", and "Center" are about as fluid as Bruce Jenner's gender. That is why it may seem that the parties are moving toward the extremes... that is how they brand each other.

(01-24-2019 08:54 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Here's my new best hope. Trump hangs on and eventually gets his wall, but he does significant damage to his own brand politically in the process. Mueller comes up with a nothing burger, but democrats keep trying to pin something on him. Eventually he decides that he's had enough. He gets to put ACB on the court to replace RBG, but otherwise loses interest and decides not to run again. Republicans find a center-right candidate who appeals to the middle, democrats stay with bat-**** crazy socialists/commies, and republicans win in 2020. Democrats realize that they need to move back to the center, and we go forward with a center-left party and a center-right party--just like we used to have in the good old days.
Chance of this happening? Maybe 1%. Probably about the same as Donald Trump's chances of getting elected president four years ago.

I submit that Trump is far closer to the center than any republican in my lifetime. I mean, he is pretty anti-war, not particularly religious, pro-spending, and has a protectionist streak. He is an *******, but his positions are indeed center... or what would have been considered center 20 years ago. "Left", "Right", and "Center" are about as fluid as Bruce Jenner's gender. That is why it may seem that the parties are moving toward the extremes... that is how they brand each other.

I agree that he is probably closer to the center than any republican since Ike. But the visceral, emotional, irrational hatred of him from the left is not good for the country. I think we need a leader who can unite. And I don't see any democrat that can unite us.

(01-23-2019 09:05 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Going to have to do better than "I'm gay and intellectual" to get more than 2% in a field full of candidates running on "I'm black", "I'm brown", "I have a pu$$y", and "Orange man bad".

Oh it’s going to be epic! 20 or 30 weirdos of all different types of oddities trying to “out-left” each other while normal Americans sit back and laugh and Trump mocks and ridicules them all.

(01-24-2019 08:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Here's my new best hope. Trump hangs on and eventually gets his wall, but he does significant damage to his own brand politically in the process. Mueller comes up with a nothing burger, but democrats keep trying to pin something on him. Eventually he decides that he's had enough. He gets to put ACB on the court to replace RBG, but otherwise loses interest and decides not to run again. Republicans find a center-right candidate who appeals to the middle, democrats stay with bat-**** crazy socialists/commies, and republicans win in 2020. Democrats realize that they need to move back to the center, and we go forward with a center-left party and a center-right party--just like we used to have in the good old days.

Chance of this happening? Maybe 1%. Probably about the same as Donald Trump's chances of getting elected president four years ago.

The only way that Trump leaves office and not to someone who is a mainstream Democrat is as follows

1) Trump holds all of his 2016 states except MI and PA and one of ME-02/NE-02. That makes it 269-269. It then goes to the House, where each state gets either 1 vote, or no votes in the case of a tie. Currently, the GOP holds 26 delegations, the Dems 23. The requirement is a MAJORITY of delegations. And Congressmen are not obligated to vote for their party candidate. There is a very likely path for the Dems to pick up the seats needed in 2020 to prevent a 2020 majority in 26 state delegations for the GOP. The trick for your scenario is for the Dems to not pick up 3 delegations themselves. The Dems don't necessarily need to win a seat, but can make a deal with a moderate Republican in MI or PA to get rid of Trump by casting a no vote on Trump.

2) If the House cannot agree on a President, then it switches to the US Senate, who will pick a VICE PRESIDENT that will take over from Trump on March 4, 2021. They have to pick from the existing Vice Presidential candidates. Senators, like Congressmen have no obligation to vote with their state or party. So the only way that either Trump or Pence does NOT get elected President, and one of the Democratic Presidential candidates does NOT get elected President, is if the Democrats nominate a centrist Vice Presidential nominee that is chosen by the Senate in such a scenario. Remember, that its highly likely that the Democrat will win the national popular vote and that there are many Republican Senators that loathe Trump and Pence and many that are retiring. The challenge is that AFAIK, the Senate has to pick from the existing candidates for Vice President. So, your hope is that the Dems put up someone like Biden.

This is highly unlikely. But there is not any other scenario that I see, other than the untimely death of Trump AND Pence, where a non-Trumper or a Democratic liberal is not President from 2021-2025.

(01-23-2019 09:42 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(01-23-2019 08:52 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Hickenlooper is too reasonable to survive a Democrat primary.

My sister lives out in Denver, she votes straight Republican most the time. She's told me she'd take him in a heartbeat, he isn't perfect but would be alright enough. Would probably do well against Trump in a "return to normalcy" style campaign against Trump's excesses and the perceived instability of the White House. Imo he's the kinda candidate who'd emerge as a dark horse during a party convention in a pre-WWI election, lord knows he wouldn't now.

Which to your point, is why he can't and won't win. He's a straight white dude, even if his policies were far left he probably doesn't check off enough intersectional boxes to garner enough attention. He'll fare as well as Jim Webb in 2016.

Hickenlooper is actually MY favorite candidate right now. If he gets enough daylight to run, he'll be formidable.

Hickenlooper is not a a Jim Webb "Blue Dog". He's center left. He can win the Dem nomination. The only problem he has is that he's not running yet, and 'generic center left older Democrat" is not something that excites the base. Oh, he would wipe the floor with Trump in 2020. But gotta be nominated first. If he runs, and Biden doesn't, Hickenlooper has a shot.

Hickenlooper isn't a socialist. There goes the Bernie bros.
Hickenlooper is pro-fracking and drank food grade fracking injection fluid (manufactured by Halliburton even) in front of the press. There goes the greens.
Hickenlooper is a white male. There goes the identitarians and hyper-PC and .edu sociology departments.

Exactly what part of the base is left in the Democrat Party to vote for him? Union types? They like Trump outright on his protectionist economic "merits". That is, after all, how he won Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and Michigan.

(01-24-2019 08:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:54 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Here's my new best hope. Trump hangs on and eventually gets his wall, but he does significant damage to his own brand politically in the process. Mueller comes up with a nothing burger, but democrats keep trying to pin something on him. Eventually he decides that he's had enough. He gets to put ACB on the court to replace RBG, but otherwise loses interest and decides not to run again. Republicans find a center-right candidate who appeals to the middle, democrats stay with bat-**** crazy socialists/commies, and republicans win in 2020. Democrats realize that they need to move back to the center, and we go forward with a center-left party and a center-right party--just like we used to have in the good old days.
Chance of this happening? Maybe 1%. Probably about the same as Donald Trump's chances of getting elected president four years ago.

I submit that Trump is far closer to the center than any republican in my lifetime. I mean, he is pretty anti-war, not particularly religious, pro-spending, and has a protectionist streak. He is an *******, but his positions are indeed center... or what would have been considered center 20 years ago. "Left", "Right", and "Center" are about as fluid as Bruce Jenner's gender. That is why it may seem that the parties are moving toward the extremes... that is how they brand each other.

I agree that he is probably closer to the center than any republican since Ike. But the visceral, emotional, irrational hatred of him from the left is not good for the country. I think we need a leader who can unite. And I don't see any democrat that can unite us.

And you hear all the time the NPC meme that Trump is far right. Its amazing how people will make themselves look stupid talking with authority on things they have zero understanding of.

I'm not at all certain Trump runs in 2020. Its a lot more likely now than it was 2 years ago, but he is not a professional politician. I'd put it at about 25% he decides not to run.

(01-24-2019 08:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

Quote:Here's my new best hope. Trump hangs on and eventually gets his wall, but he does significant damage to his own brand politically in the process.

why??? you're a libertarian....he's as close as you could hope for.....

Quote:Mueller comes up with a nothing burger, but democrats keep trying to pin something on him. Eventually he decides that he's had enough. He gets to put ACB on the court to replace RBG

that works...

Quote:but otherwise loses interest and decides not to run again. Republicans find a center-right candidate who appeals to the middle, democrats stay with bat-**** crazy socialists/commies, and republicans win in 2020.

that works too...

Quote:Democrats realize that they need to move back to the center, and we go forward with a center-left party and a center-right party--just like we used to have in the good old days.

not a snowball's...

Quote:Chance of this happening? Maybe 1%. Probably about the same as Donald Trump's chances of getting elected president four years ago.

napes....he was 5:1.....I know.....I actually put my money down...
yea! me and fk IA for dickin' the obvious....
[/quote]

(01-24-2019 08:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Here's my new best hope. Trump hangs on and eventually gets his wall, but he does significant damage to his own brand politically in the process.

Fulfilling the #1 promise that got him elected does significance damage? wut

(01-24-2019 02:55 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Here's my new best hope. Trump hangs on and eventually gets his wall, but he does significant damage to his own brand politically in the process.

Fulfilling the #1 promise that got him elected does significance damage? wut

sounds like a shiteload of other indy's....some call themselves libertarians...."wut" was apropos...

apparently, I'm not the only one that finds that strange....

how does one make any of the above happy???

for fks sakes....remember those that thought he would run as little boy cordon bleu?

(01-24-2019 08:54 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I submit that Trump is far closer to the center than any republican in my lifetime. I mean, he is pretty anti-war, not particularly religious, pro-spending, and has a protectionist streak. He is an *******, but his positions are indeed center... or what would have been considered center 20 years ago. "Left", "Right", and "Center" are about as fluid as Bruce Jenner's gender. That is why it may seem that the parties are moving toward the extremes... that is how they brand each other.

And that is the irony of Trump

He is the independent, center candidate that everyone has been saying that they wish we had, yet he is vilified

Trump completely neutered the Republican establishment, yet instead of working with him to get things done, the left did nothing but try and destroy him

(01-24-2019 04:08 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:54 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I submit that Trump is far closer to the center than any republican in my lifetime. I mean, he is pretty anti-war, not particularly religious, pro-spending, and has a protectionist streak. He is an *******, but his positions are indeed center... or what would have been considered center 20 years ago. "Left", "Right", and "Center" are about as fluid as Bruce Jenner's gender. That is why it may seem that the parties are moving toward the extremes... that is how they brand each other.

And that is the irony of Trump

He is the independent, center candidate that everyone has been saying that they wish we had, yet he is vilified

Trump completely neutered the Republican establishment, yet instead of working with him to get things done, the left did nothing but try and destroy him

The Democrats biggest mistake ever was not embracing Trump to get things they want. Trump is not opposed to that many things. They could have gotten a lot of things they wanted - and still could for that matter.

There was a window where the Republican establishment was so anti-Trump that the Democrats could have essentially stolen him. They blew it.

(01-24-2019 04:14 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 04:08 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:54 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I submit that Trump is far closer to the center than any republican in my lifetime. I mean, he is pretty anti-war, not particularly religious, pro-spending, and has a protectionist streak. He is an *******, but his positions are indeed center... or what would have been considered center 20 years ago. "Left", "Right", and "Center" are about as fluid as Bruce Jenner's gender. That is why it may seem that the parties are moving toward the extremes... that is how they brand each other.

And that is the irony of Trump

He is the independent, center candidate that everyone has been saying that they wish we had, yet he is vilified

Trump completely neutered the Republican establishment, yet instead of working with him to get things done, the left did nothing but try and destroy him

The Democrats biggest mistake ever was not embracing Trump to get things they want. Trump is not opposed to that many things. They could have gotten a lot of things they wanted - and still could for that matter.

There was a window where the Republican establishment was so anti-Trump that the Democrats could have essentially stolen him. They blew it.

And its not like Trump is a fiscal hawk either. He would not have opposed a transportation or infrastructure bill due to cost like a Romney would have.

(01-24-2019 04:08 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:54 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I submit that Trump is far closer to the center than any republican in my lifetime. I mean, he is pretty anti-war, not particularly religious, pro-spending, and has a protectionist streak. He is an *******, but his positions are indeed center... or what would have been considered center 20 years ago. "Left", "Right", and "Center" are about as fluid as Bruce Jenner's gender. That is why it may seem that the parties are moving toward the extremes... that is how they brand each other.

And that is the irony of Trump

He is the independent, center candidate that everyone has been saying that they wish we had, yet he is vilified

Trump completely neutered the Republican establishment, yet instead of working with him to get things done, the left did nothing but try and destroy him

#henceDJT

(01-24-2019 04:14 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 04:08 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:54 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I submit that Trump is far closer to the center than any republican in my lifetime. I mean, he is pretty anti-war, not particularly religious, pro-spending, and has a protectionist streak. He is an *******, but his positions are indeed center... or what would have been considered center 20 years ago. "Left", "Right", and "Center" are about as fluid as Bruce Jenner's gender. That is why it may seem that the parties are moving toward the extremes... that is how they brand each other.

And that is the irony of Trump

He is the independent, center candidate that everyone has been saying that they wish we had, yet he is vilified

Trump completely neutered the Republican establishment, yet instead of working with him to get things done, the left did nothing but try and destroy him

The Democrats biggest mistake ever was not embracing Trump to get things they want. Trump is not opposed to that many things. They could have gotten a lot of things they wanted - and still could for that matter.

There was a window where the Republican establishment was so anti-Trump that the Democrats could have essentially stolen him. They blew it.

it was so simple....

then, enter politics....

fk'n idiots....

(01-24-2019 08:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:54 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Here's my new best hope. Trump hangs on and eventually gets his wall, but he does significant damage to his own brand politically in the process. Mueller comes up with a nothing burger, but democrats keep trying to pin something on him. Eventually he decides that he's had enough. He gets to put ACB on the court to replace RBG, but otherwise loses interest and decides not to run again. Republicans find a center-right candidate who appeals to the middle, democrats stay with bat-**** crazy socialists/commies, and republicans win in 2020. Democrats realize that they need to move back to the center, and we go forward with a center-left party and a center-right party--just like we used to have in the good old days.
Chance of this happening? Maybe 1%. Probably about the same as Donald Trump's chances of getting elected president four years ago.

I submit that Trump is far closer to the center than any republican in my lifetime. I mean, he is pretty anti-war, not particularly religious, pro-spending, and has a protectionist streak. He is an *******, but his positions are indeed center... or what would have been considered center 20 years ago. "Left", "Right", and "Center" are about as fluid as Bruce Jenner's gender. That is why it may seem that the parties are moving toward the extremes... that is how they brand each other.

I agree that he is probably closer to the center than any republican since Ike. But the visceral, emotional, irrational hatred of him from the left is not good for the country. I think we need a leader who can unite. And I don't see any democrat that can unite us.

We will never have a Republican that the Demons can approve of and thus there will be no uniting. You could have bat shiite crazy and incompetent Ocasio and if she changed partys she still wouldn't be approved by the Demons.

Sounds like 77-year-old Bernie Sanders is announcing his bid this weekend too.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/107...ews-latest

(01-24-2019 04:08 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:54 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I submit that Trump is far closer to the center than any republican in my lifetime. I mean, he is pretty anti-war, not particularly religious, pro-spending, and has a protectionist streak. He is an *******, but his positions are indeed center... or what would have been considered center 20 years ago. "Left", "Right", and "Center" are about as fluid as Bruce Jenner's gender. That is why it may seem that the parties are moving toward the extremes... that is how they brand each other.

And that is the irony of Trump

He is the independent, center candidate that everyone has been saying that they wish we had, yet he is vilified

Trump completely neutered the Republican establishment, yet instead of working with him to get things done, the left did nothing but try and destroy him

Yeah, they could probably have gotten more from him than any other Republican candidate. That was one of my concerns. I underestimated the stupidity and arrogance of the Democrats.