(12-08-2018 12:24 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 08:34 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 07:51 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 06:14 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 05:23 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  Cut unnecessary frills from the football program and bring them all back.

what's your definition of frills?

All things Factory. Hokey.
Uniforms. The guys have more outfits than Diana Ross.
Ipads
New football building
New scoreboard
New indoor practice facility
Hotel stays for HOME games. What nonsense.

Yet another example of perception not being factual.

The uniforms are part of the Adidas contract that actually pays EMU Athletics and benefits all sports. EMU likely wouldn't have this contract if it weren't for football. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/colle.../28845069/

The "new football building" is not just for football but some people may think it is because it's next to the stadium.

The bubble is for far more than football. I've been in there several times for soccer and baseball events, but never football.

I look at the scoreboard as being for us, THE FANS! Can't we have nice things? By the way, GVSU has a huge scoreboard.

When Adidas goes into contract with programs at our level of success and visibility they tend to be a subsidy instead of a profitable venture for the school. They give us money, but we agree to buy so many dollars of their apparel each year.

With so many uniforms and helmet variations, there is almost certainly an incremental cost for equipment management as well.

So you want Division 1 football with a division 3 budget? Good luck recruiting with that.

(12-08-2018 12:39 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 12:24 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 08:34 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 07:51 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 06:14 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  what's your definition of frills?

All things Factory. Hokey.
Uniforms. The guys have more outfits than Diana Ross.
Ipads
New football building
New scoreboard
New indoor practice facility
Hotel stays for HOME games. What nonsense.

Yet another example of perception not being factual.

The uniforms are part of the Adidas contract that actually pays EMU Athletics and benefits all sports. EMU likely wouldn't have this contract if it weren't for football. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/colle.../28845069/

The "new football building" is not just for football but some people may think it is because it's next to the stadium.

The bubble is for far more than football. I've been in there several times for soccer and baseball events, but never football.

I look at the scoreboard as being for us, THE FANS! Can't we have nice things? By the way, GVSU has a huge scoreboard.

When Adidas goes into contract with programs at our level of success and visibility they tend to be a subsidy instead of a profitable venture for the school. They give us money, but we agree to buy so many dollars of their apparel each year.

With so many uniforms and helmet variations, there is almost certainly an incremental cost for equipment management as well.

So you want Division 1 football with a division 3 budget? Good luck recruiting with that.

A ton of free Adidas gear, and great looking uniforms by the way, and all this guy is concerned about is an 'almost certainly incremental cost for equipment management'! Those incremental equipment 'management' costs have got to be stratospheric! :

(12-08-2018 07:51 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 06:14 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 05:23 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  Cut unnecessary frills from the football program and bring them all back.

what's your definition of frills?

All things Factory. Hokey.
Uniforms. The guys have more outfits than Diana Ross.
Ipads
New football building
New scoreboard
New indoor practice facility
Hotel stays for HOME games. What nonsense.

I basically think LJM is a concerned and engaged EMU booster who is still scarred by the discontinuation of the wrestling program and I can truly sympathize with that. In this case, however, LJM is just employing the aged and worn out tactic of blaming football for any financial decision made by EMU that one does not like.

The "Factory" concept, hokey or not, truly costs EMU little and the grey field distinguishes us. Our athletic facilities are and have been sub-standard for a long time. It has become an element of the self fulfilling prophecy for the football hater club. After all lousy facilities breed lousy recruiting seasons which in turn yield poor results. High school scoreboards contribute to poor fan experiences and that of course also contributes to poor attendance. Football, as a result, is unsuccessful and the haters just love it! Keep on keeping on!

As far as the "nonsense" of the football team sleeping off campus prior to games, I think most rational people would consider staying on campus during the Friday night party college atmosphere more nonsensical. In the late 60's and early 70's U-M football players slept at the Huron Hotel and when the hotel had a building problem, they slept on cots in the second floor of the golf facility to avoid the problems associated with the dorm party life. Of course they now stay at the Campus Inn and are escorted by motorcycle police to the stadium.

As far as the "incremental costs" of equipment management all I can say is "C'mon Man". Really? Really? LJM you are better than that.

(12-08-2018 08:09 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 07:51 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 06:14 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 05:23 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  Cut unnecessary frills from the football program and bring them all back.

what's your definition of frills?

All things Factory. Hokey.
Uniforms. The guys have more outfits than Diana Ross.
Ipads
New football building
New scoreboard
New indoor practice facility
Hotel stays for HOME games. What nonsense.

I basically think LJM is a concerned and engaged EMU booster who is still scarred by the discontinuation of the wrestling program and I can truly sympathize with that. In this case, however, LJM is just employing the aged and worn out tactic of blaming football for any financial decision made by EMU that one does not like.

The "Factory" concept, hokey or not, truly costs EMU little and the grey field distinguishes us. Our athletic facilities are and have been sub-standard for a long time. It has become an element of the self fulfilling prophecy for the football hater club. After all lousy facilities breed lousy recruiting seasons which in turn yield poor results. High school scoreboards contribute to poor fan experiences and that of course also contributes to poor attendance. Football, as a result, is unsuccessful and the haters just love it! Keep on keeping on!

As far as the "nonsense" of the football team sleeping off campus prior to games, I think most rational people would consider staying on campus during the Friday night party college atmosphere more nonsensical. In the late 60's and early 70's U-M football players slept at the Huron Hotel and when the hotel had a building problem, they slept on cots in the second floor of the golf facility to avoid the problems associated with the dorm party life. Of course they now stay at the Campus Inn and are escorted by motorcycle police to the stadium.

As far as the "incremental costs" of equipment management all I can say is "C'mon Man". Really? Really? LJM you are better than that.

Yep. The turf needed replacing and doesn't it really matter ($ wise) what color it is.

Basically one of the largest incremental costs is salaries and we are near the bottom of FBS. USA Today had the aggregate salaries of assistants for each FBS program. We are near the bottom (very near the bottom).

I keep hoping and praying that we'll move forward as a FB program and ticket sales will rise dramatically along with ticket revenues.

(12-08-2018 07:16 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 12:39 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 12:24 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 08:34 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 07:51 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  All things Factory. Hokey.
Uniforms. The guys have more outfits than Diana Ross.
Ipads
New football building
New scoreboard
New indoor practice facility
Hotel stays for HOME games. What nonsense.

Yet another example of perception not being factual.

The uniforms are part of the Adidas contract that actually pays EMU Athletics and benefits all sports. EMU likely wouldn't have this contract if it weren't for football. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/colle.../28845069/

The "new football building" is not just for football but some people may think it is because it's next to the stadium.

The bubble is for far more than football. I've been in there several times for soccer and baseball events, but never football.

I look at the scoreboard as being for us, THE FANS! Can't we have nice things? By the way, GVSU has a huge scoreboard.

When Adidas goes into contract with programs at our level of success and visibility they tend to be a subsidy instead of a profitable venture for the school. They give us money, but we agree to buy so many dollars of their apparel each year.

With so many uniforms and helmet variations, there is almost certainly an incremental cost for equipment management as well.

So you want Division 1 football with a division 3 budget? Good luck recruiting with that.

A ton of free Adidas gear, and great looking uniforms by the way, and all this guy is concerned about is an 'almost certainly incremental cost for equipment management'! Those incremental equipment 'management' costs have got to be stratospheric! :

Free? Sure. They give us a subsidy and discount.
Here is how Adidas structured their contract with Massachusetts.
https://pioneerinstitute.org/news/myster...contracts/

(12-08-2018 08:09 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 07:51 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 06:14 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 05:23 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  Cut unnecessary frills from the football program and bring them all back.

what's your definition of frills?

All things Factory. Hokey.
Uniforms. The guys have more outfits than Diana Ross.
Ipads
New football building
New scoreboard
New indoor practice facility
Hotel stays for HOME games. What nonsense.

I basically think LJM is a concerned and engaged EMU booster who is still scarred by the discontinuation of the wrestling program and I can truly sympathize with that. In this case, however, LJM is just employing the aged and worn out tactic of blaming football for any financial decision made by EMU that one does not like.

The "Factory" concept, hokey or not, truly costs EMU little and the grey field distinguishes us. Our athletic facilities are and have been sub-standard for a long time. It has become an element of the self fulfilling prophecy for the football hater club. After all lousy facilities breed lousy recruiting seasons which in turn yield poor results. High school scoreboards contribute to poor fan experiences and that of course also contributes to poor attendance. Football, as a result, is unsuccessful and the haters just love it! Keep on keeping on!

As far as the "nonsense" of the football team sleeping off campus prior to games, I think most rational people would consider staying on campus during the Friday night party college atmosphere more nonsensical. In the late 60's and early 70's U-M football players slept at the Huron Hotel and when the hotel had a building problem, they slept on cots in the second floor of the golf facility to avoid the problems associated with the dorm party life. Of course they now stay at the Campus Inn and are escorted by motorcycle police to the stadium.

As far as the "incremental costs" of equipment management all I can say is "C'mon Man". Really? Really? LJM you are better than that.

Nothing says minor league more than hokey gimmicks like The Factory.

We're not uofm and our campus is not party central. We don't have money to blow.

Upgrading the facilities is merely whitewash. It won't change foundational problems. Poor alumni participation and interest, not just in football, but across the board. Proximity to uofm. Little media or community interest.

Facilities will not fix these issues. It didn't help when we made a major expansion and upgrade to Rynearson. The bubble didn't help. The Convo didn't help basketball.

The expectations for what facilities can do are too high.

I disagree.

It would be impossible to have a FBS program in the midwest without an IPF. I believe all MAC schools have one (or almost all).

Actually FB was on the upswing after Rynearson was redone. Ron Cooper built a rising program which later tanked after he left (for Louisville). Who knows what EMU FB would have been like in the late 90s if he had stayed.

As far as all of this it is 'keeping up with the Jones(es).' Got to do it to recruit coaching and player talent.

Good facilities + good coaching = success.

(12-09-2018 12:29 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 08:09 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(12-08-2018 07:51 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 06:14 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 05:23 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  Cut unnecessary frills from the football program and bring them all back.

what's your definition of frills?

All things Factory. Hokey.
Uniforms. The guys have more outfits than Diana Ross.
Ipads
New football building
New scoreboard
New indoor practice facility
Hotel stays for HOME games. What nonsense.

I basically think LJM is a concerned and engaged EMU booster who is still scarred by the discontinuation of the wrestling program and I can truly sympathize with that. In this case, however, LJM is just employing the aged and worn out tactic of blaming football for any financial decision made by EMU that one does not like.

The "Factory" concept, hokey or not, truly costs EMU little and the grey field distinguishes us. Our athletic facilities are and have been sub-standard for a long time. It has become an element of the self fulfilling prophecy for the football hater club. After all lousy facilities breed lousy recruiting seasons which in turn yield poor results. High school scoreboards contribute to poor fan experiences and that of course also contributes to poor attendance. Football, as a result, is unsuccessful and the haters just love it! Keep on keeping on!

As far as the "nonsense" of the football team sleeping off campus prior to games, I think most rational people would consider staying on campus during the Friday night party college atmosphere more nonsensical. In the late 60's and early 70's U-M football players slept at the Huron Hotel and when the hotel had a building problem, they slept on cots in the second floor of the golf facility to avoid the problems associated with the dorm party life. Of course they now stay at the Campus Inn and are escorted by motorcycle police to the stadium.

As far as the "incremental costs" of equipment management all I can say is "C'mon Man". Really? Really? LJM you are better than that.

Nothing says minor league more than hokey gimmicks like The Factory.

We're not uofm and our campus is not party central. We don't have money to blow.

Upgrading the facilities is merely whitewash. It won't change foundational problems. Poor alumni participation and interest, not just in football, but across the board. Proximity to uofm. Little media or community interest.

Facilities will not fix these issues. It didn't help when we made a major expansion and upgrade to Rynearson. The bubble didn't help. The Convo didn't help basketball.

The expectations for what facilities can do are too high.

Probably best to just shut the whole school down. Big waste of money. Enrollment dropping. Lack of interest across the board. UM nearby. New buildings, nothing has helped.

Problem solved.

(12-08-2018 07:51 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 06:14 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 05:23 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  Cut unnecessary frills from the football program and bring them all back.

what's your definition of frills?

All things Factory. Hokey.
Uniforms. The guys have more outfits than Diana Ross.
Ipads
New football building
New scoreboard
New indoor practice facility
Hotel stays for HOME games. What nonsense.

Lol nearly all that stuff is cap ex and isn’t even a line item on the budget you’re trying to cut.

There’s like zero parties on campus. Maybe on Normal street but not on campus.

I love athletics more than the next guy but must admit as a student, when professors are not allowed to make copies of materials for students then it’s hard to justify some of the expenses related to athletics.

The Smith and Wetherbee cuts have done nothing so far but be an embarrassment and divide the campus. Bringing back tennis and softball now, which I hope they do and not drag their feet, but all Smith and Wetherbee achieved with those cuts was irreparably damage them.

Dear vannzee,
Obviously from your statements, there is concern on the campus for athletics. They may not be everyones choices (what stays, and what goes), but there is interest.
I don't believe reproducing items for students has any bearing on athletic costs versus what professors want to do.
Lastly, everyone is not going to agree on decisions made by university officials, but I would hope that they are made in the best interests for the university. Having talked with President Smith and Athletic Director Wetherbee, I have confidence that they are working in the best interests of the university.

My comment was not made in jest or speculation. We had a professor show us an email from her department superiors that she (or other professors) were not allowed to make copies to distributed to student unless it was for an exam. I am not saying that this is a direct effect of athletic spending but when you see things like this and other clues, it becomes harder to justify the spending.

I just feel like the cuts should have been discussed prior to implementation more. I feel like there should have been more expectation of the lawsuits and being forced to bring the sports back. I feel like the they should have looked at their numbers for the sports and seen their books were wrong. It all led to a bad look for the school and now, tennis and softball are coming back so what did that egg on the face of the school really accomplish?

And don't think that I am an athletics basher, I was at every home football game and regularly attend both mens and women's basketball, and baseball.

(12-09-2018 01:02 PM)vannzee Wrote:  My comment was not made in jest or speculation. We had a professor show us an email from her department superiors that she (or other professors) were not allowed to make copies to distributed to student unless it was for an exam. I am not saying that this is a direct effect of athletic spending but when you see things like this and other clues, it becomes harder to justify the spending.

I just feel like the cuts should have been discussed prior to implementation more. I feel like there should have been more expectation of the lawsuits and being forced to bring the sports back. I feel like the they should have looked at their numbers for the sports and seen their books were wrong. It all led to a bad look for the school and now, tennis and softball are coming back so what did that egg on the face of the school really accomplish?

And don't think that I am an athletics basher, I was at every home football game and regularly attend both mens and women's basketball, and baseball.

Somebody in the EMU leadership absolutely blew it. Prez, AD, lawyers, etc...how did this happen?????? This wasn't a spur of the moment decision. The school spent time and money for some type of analysis prior to pulling the trigger. Talk about wasting money........look at this fiasco as wasting money 101.

Would be nice to know, and actually watch some heads roll, but nobody will ever know. At this point everyone is simply in CYA mode. So much waste in these institutions, from top to bottom, it's funny how football is usually the scapegoat.

Enrollment is dropping, and will likely continue. Bigger cuts probably need to be made to right size the ship, but instead of making the hard choices, 'reduced copy machine use' is what these geniuses come up with.

Finger pointing is always easier than real solutions, and tough decisions.

I think that some who are not on campus or in the buildings underestimates the budget issues on the learning environment. If I was an incoming freshman walking into Sill Hall, I don't know know that I would enroll.

There's windows that cant be closed even in the winter and some which when open require a soda can to prop them from falling. There's half rusted out bathroom stall walls and doors, there's a step which caved in on the stairs so it has a cone placed over the hole in it.

But meanwhile, were seeing money allocated to athletics marketing so they could rent a mechanical bull that no one used.

The budget crisis is real and is a very real threat.

FYI, Sill Hall is about to get a major update. Construction is to begin next month (per this press release): https://today.emich.edu/story/story/10715

And a reminder to all (not necessarily you, Vannzee), that support for athletics is less than 8% of the general fund budget. If we zeroed out athletics, that wouldn't solve all problems. It just really over-simplistic wishful thinking by some.

Sports, and in particular football are the front porch of universities in the United States. I am not purporting that is logical, just merely stating a fact. There is ample evidence that a successful football team will increase enrollment (Appalachian St.) along with alumni involvement and the accompanying donations. Regrettably that front porch is also the most visible and easiest target for critics when a university has a declining enrollment that produces a budget shortfall.

EMU has tried to operate the revenue producing sports on the cheap and support more teams than any other MAC school does. As LJM has accurately pointed out, it has not worked for our revenue sports. Central Michigan, our rival will spend $1.5 million dollars on their football head coaching position this year while we will spend approximately 1/3 of that. As they say, you get what you pay for.

Dear Friends,
Remember the real culprit here is the State Legislature which has continually cut spending to higher education, and funds charter schools that have no requirements. I hope this changes with the new leadership coming into office in January.

(12-09-2018 06:36 PM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  FYI, Sill Hall is about to get a major update. Construction is to begin next month (per this press release): https://today.emich.edu/story/story/10715

And a reminder to all (not necessarily you, Vannzee), that support for athletics is less than 8% of the general fund budget. If we zeroed out athletics, that wouldn't solve all problems. It just really over-simplistic wishful thinking by some.

I agree that athletic spending is minor and most of the spending I fully support as athletics is what I attend most on campus outside of classes. My comments are more speaking towards the general perception. Its kind of like the low hanging fruit right now due to the attention partially placed on the department due to the cuts.

Arent the Regens responsible for overseeing the President and AD?
Neither Smith or the new AD have impressed me