(09-15-2018 09:10 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 07:45 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 12:47 AM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 12:32 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 12:03 AM)BufflOwl Wrote:  Pulled the scholarship offer. Got it. Presumably the kids were already admitted though, could they still go to the school? I don’t see how he could keep them from going to the school if they were already admitted.

If they so choose to go to the school, and pay for it as other students do, would he not let them come to the baseball field every day? Or we’re they also not welcome at the field even if they still chose to attend Rice?

Well of course they could have gone to school there but why would they? They were not going to be on the team in any fashion. They were Rice baseball commits who obviously want to play D1 baseball and specifically they wanted to play at Rice. When Bragga pulled the offer, their only choice was to look elsewhere. Problem is, again, 99% of schools in the country were full for 2019. THEY DID NOT HAVE “PLENTY” OF TIME to find another home. It really screwed those kids.

I agree he should have at least allowed them to walk on. I’m also not sure why he wouldn’t have let them if they wanted to. Also, did he honor any of them? Or clear the whole lot?

Even if he’d allowed them to walk on, why would a kid do that when he’d been promised a scholarship? “Hey kid, we don’t want you anymore but if you wanna come try out, I guess you can do that.”

Come on man...

Those kids are D1 players who earned multiple offers and chose Rice. Their not gonna accept that even if it was presented to them.

Plenty of walk-ons make huge impacts on programs. Rice baseball’s history is littered with them. I’d be careful encouraging kids to scoff at anything other than a scholarship. If all a kid wants is to “be a Rice Owl.” Then I would have encouraged them to show up and be an owl. At least for the fall semester anyhow. As you mentioned it’s not like they had several other options at that point. If all they want is a scholarship than they can find another scholarship so they can say they got one.

Just my take though. It’s clearly a new age of recruiting and a softer generation of people so perhaps you’re right about the negative ramifications of this move. I just don’t see how he’ll be anything other than criticized no matter what he does until he starts to win though. That’s the challenge of following a legend.

You’re missing the point. There was no opportunity for a walk-on status. You can’t just go to school and go walk on the team. It’s not intramurals. That has to be an invite provided by the coach. Bragga pulled the offer and basically said “we don’t want you. Good luck. Sorry bout the timing.”

(09-15-2018 10:11 PM)Owl1998 Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 09:10 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 07:45 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 12:47 AM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 12:32 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  Well of course they could have gone to school there but why would they? They were not going to be on the team in any fashion. They were Rice baseball commits who obviously want to play D1 baseball and specifically they wanted to play at Rice. When Bragga pulled the offer, their only choice was to look elsewhere. Problem is, again, 99% of schools in the country were full for 2019. THEY DID NOT HAVE “PLENTY” OF TIME to find another home. It really screwed those kids.

I agree he should have at least allowed them to walk on. I’m also not sure why he wouldn’t have let them if they wanted to. Also, did he honor any of them? Or clear the whole lot?

Even if he’d allowed them to walk on, why would a kid do that when he’d been promised a scholarship? “Hey kid, we don’t want you anymore but if you wanna come try out, I guess you can do that.”

Come on man...

Those kids are D1 players who earned multiple offers and chose Rice. Their not gonna accept that even if it was presented to them.

Plenty of walk-ons make huge impacts on programs. Rice baseball’s history is littered with them. I’d be careful encouraging kids to scoff at anything other than a scholarship. If all a kid wants is to “be a Rice Owl.” Then I would have encouraged them to show up and be an owl. At least for the fall semester anyhow. As you mentioned it’s not like they had several other options at that point. If all they want is a scholarship than they can find another scholarship so they can say they got one.

Just my take though. It’s clearly a new age of recruiting and a softer generation of people so perhaps you’re right about the negative ramifications of this move. I just don’t see how he’ll be anything other than criticized no matter what he does until he starts to win though. That’s the challenge of following a legend.

You’re missing the point. There was no opportunity for a walk-on status. You can’t just go to school and go walk on the team. It’s not intramurals. That has to be an invite provided by the coach. Bragga pulled the offer and basically said “we don’t want you. Good luck. Sorry bout the timing.”

Well hey one of them ended up at a great place in Army and the other at UIW which people seem to think Hallmark has on the right track.

Could be worse.. Sounds like Bragga could’ve handled it better but like a few people said, all will be solved if he can win.

The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

(09-17-2018 03:20 PM)amber34 Wrote:  The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

I don't see anyone claiming moral high ground. Not condemning Bragga for what he did really isn't at all the same thing as extolling his virtues.

(09-17-2018 04:58 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 03:20 PM)amber34 Wrote:  The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

I don't see anyone claiming moral high ground. Not condemning Bragga for what he did really isn't at all the same thing as extolling his virtues.

And again, while I fully believe everything Owl1988 has said, we are still only getting one side of the story-- that of the kids and parents.

(09-17-2018 03:20 PM)amber34 Wrote:  The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

Excellent post.

And I totally agree. This shady practice is accepted in most places. At Rice, it wasn’t....until now. Is 100% legal to do but it’s just not right.

And while I understand Walt’s point that “we’re only hearing one side of the story” I assure you it is 100% true. This is the new way of doing things and it will be accepted here if Bragga wins. It just really sucks for those kids and their families.

(09-17-2018 08:17 PM)Owl1998 Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 03:20 PM)amber34 Wrote:  The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

Excellent post.

And I totally agree. This shady practice is accepted in most places. At Rice, it wasn’t....until now. Is 100% legal to do but it’s just not right.

And while I understand Walt’s point that “we’re only hearing one side of the story” I assure you it is 100% true. This is the new way of doing things and it will be accepted here if Bragga wins. It just really sucks for those kids and their families.

If it happened any other year I’d be completely against it (even though it’s common amongst our competition). However, when you have a new coach players always transfer and the revaluation of offered scholarships is par for the course. Bragga has his guys, and players knew Wayne was going to leave.

Maybe it could’ve been handled better communication wise (sounds like it) but a large turnover in the potential roster is common in year 0 of coaching changes.

All the best to those kids and the ones who transferred out. Everyone landed somewhere.

(09-17-2018 08:26 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 08:17 PM)Owl1998 Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 03:20 PM)amber34 Wrote:  The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

Excellent post.

And I totally agree. This shady practice is accepted in most places. At Rice, it wasn’t....until now. Is 100% legal to do but it’s just not right.

And while I understand Walt’s point that “we’re only hearing one side of the story” I assure you it is 100% true. This is the new way of doing things and it will be accepted here if Bragga wins. It just really sucks for those kids and their families.

If it happened any other year I’d be completely against it (even though it’s common amongst our competition). However, when you have a new coach players always transfer and the revaluation of offered scholarships is par for the course. Bragga has his guys, and players knew Wayne was going to leave.

Maybe it could’ve been handled better communication wise (sounds like it) but a large turnover in the potential roster is common in year 0 of coaching changes.

All the best to those kids and the ones who transferred out. Everyone landed somewhere.

I have an issue with ruining kids lives in ANY year....including the first year.

And before someone says “don’t be so dramatic,” it truly can hurt a kid for life when an education at Rice was in the works. Just a brutal shock to a young person who’s put all their eggs in that Rice basket.

But, they’re all very good players and very resilient so I’m sure they will be ok.

(09-17-2018 08:48 PM)Owl1998 Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 08:26 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 08:17 PM)Owl1998 Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 03:20 PM)amber34 Wrote:  The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

Excellent post.

And I totally agree. This shady practice is accepted in most places. At Rice, it wasn’t....until now. Is 100% legal to do but it’s just not right.

And while I understand Walt’s point that “we’re only hearing one side of the story” I assure you it is 100% true. This is the new way of doing things and it will be accepted here if Bragga wins. It just really sucks for those kids and their families.

If it happened any other year I’d be completely against it (even though it’s common amongst our competition). However, when you have a new coach players always transfer and the revaluation of offered scholarships is par for the course. Bragga has his guys, and players knew Wayne was going to leave.

Maybe it could’ve been handled better communication wise (sounds like it) but a large turnover in the potential roster is common in year 0 of coaching changes.

All the best to those kids and the ones who transferred out. Everyone landed somewhere.

I have an issue with ruining kids lives in ANY year....including the first year.

And before someone says “don’t be so dramatic,” it truly can hurt a kid for life when an education at Rice was in the works. Just a brutal shock to a young person who’s put all their eggs in that Rice basket.

But, they’re all very good players and very resilient so I’m sure they will be ok.

I’ve got an issue with the manner Bragga has let these kids down (i.e. the severe lack of communication), but you are absolutely being dramatic about the education. It’s not like these kids are going from playing college baseball at Rice to digging ditches, they’re going to places like West Point. Smart kids will succeed anywhere they go and I’m sure all of these kids are going to turn out just fine from a life standpoint.

If any of you are surprised by the complete lack of ethics displayed by brag, just look at who he works for. Disgusting that Rice is doing this.

https://twitter.com/mikeb_kvue/status/10...43814?s=21

What we compete with in state. Looks nicer than our new concession stand and half enclosed batting cage.

(09-20-2018 09:24 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  If any of you are surprised by the complete lack of ethics displayed by brag, just look at who he works for. Disgusting that Rice is doing this.

Karlgaard? Leebron? BoT?

Maybe there were not good enough to play at Rice. The record speaks for itself and previous recruiting. By the way this happens all the time with a new staff.

(09-17-2018 05:05 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 04:58 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 03:20 PM)amber34 Wrote:  The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

I don't see anyone claiming moral high ground. Not condemning Bragga for what he did really isn't at all the same thing as extolling his virtues.

And again, while I fully believe everything Owl1988 has said, we are still only getting one side of the story-- that of the kids and parents.

It is a refreshing change to have a head coach who cares about and is actively very involved in recruiting

(09-17-2018 03:20 PM)amber34 Wrote:  The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

If we all just agreed with each other, there wouldn’t be very many messages on this message board. Bantering is kind of the purpose for the place is it not?

Unless Walt or Numbers post. Then, you just agree or face the wrath!!!!

(09-22-2018 02:18 PM)Eau Quai Sea Owl Wrote:  It is a refreshing change to have a head coach who cares about and is actively very involved in recruiting

One could have made that same point about Todd Graham when he came on board, as some posters have posited.

I would agree that yanking the offers of a large number of signees at a fairly late date certainly *is* 'very involved'. I will disagree that that aspect is automatically 'refreshing'.

(09-22-2018 04:29 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 03:20 PM)amber34 Wrote:  The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

If we all just agreed with each other, there wouldn’t be very many messages on this message board. Bantering is kind of the purpose for the place is it not?

Unless Walt or Numbers post. Then, you just agree or face the wrath!!!!

Join the Kent Rowald Memorial Political Mudpit for awhile.....

(09-22-2018 04:29 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 03:20 PM)amber34 Wrote:  The pathology on this board is amazing. We have a respected poster pointing out that we've pulled the rug out from under players in a way that, at best, made things difficult for the recruits. And instead of being like "jeez that sucks" there's all kinds of bending over backward to justify it...everybody does it...the kids should've known...if we win no recruits will care...the coach must have a great reason we haven't heard yet.

I love sports and I love Rice, and there are tons of great people associated with the athletic program, but the extent to which we sports fans claim moral high ground is not borne out by the facts. Usually it's things like athletes cheating or failing out or getting arrested (where there's no way to know if we're any less guilty, because we are small-time enough to keep that stuff under wraps), but the same, well, pathology is at work here. It may be that being in Division I (even at our level) requires doing shady things, and on net the costs outweigh the benefits. But that's rarely the argument that gets made.

If we all just agreed with each other, there wouldn’t be very many messages on this message board. Bantering is kind of the purpose for the place is it not?

Unless Walt or Numbers post. Then, you just agree or face the wrath!!!!

or amber. Leave Amber alone, damn you!